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mroriginal
10-31-2005, 01:31 AM
For the short guys out there I know how it feels being short but if your still a teenager there is hope to grow pass your genetic height if you are 17 - 21 there is still hope if your growth plates arent fused by then.But if your plates are already fused there is nothing you can do about your height.The reason i am doing this is because Im short myself and think there is hope for us.Heres the information an endicronologist gave on a sight concerning short people.

Endicronologist said:
This is a quite in-depth report which I am making in view of the few months of research I have done into growing taller. This report is not bias and does not in any way contain any brand names. Please note that companies claiming growth and all are likely to be scam sites. Please do not trust them, especially those who claim an increase of height for those who are over 21, or those that come in Lotion form, or give high amounts of HGH ( these will result in facial and physical deformation ).

First of all I would like to clarify some things. It is not possible at all to grow taller ( besides using Limb Extension Surgery ) once the growth plates are fused. Total epiphyseal ( growth plate ) fusion occurs at 20 or, in some individuals up to 25. Any site which claims to open the closed growth plates or promote growth after the age of 21 are likely to be scams.

Second, I would like to say that for those who are below 15 ( and probably, those who are 16 ), there is very much hope for you. Those who are 16-21, there is hope, but the only thing that might help you, from an endocrinologist viewpoint, is estrogen blockers, or aromatase inhibitors. Estrogen blockers, or aromatase inhibitors, will slow down epiphyseal fusion so that you can grow more for longer. Estrogen actually speeds up growth plate fusion. By preventing androgen by being converted to estrogen, you buy more time for you to grow. Without anti-estrogen therapy, one might stop growing totally and irreversibly at around 20 years of age. If one gets on anti-estrogen therapy, one can expect to grow for many years more, and, according to a clinical study, grow 5.1cm taller than estiamted adult height. I hope that before taking anti-estrogen that you seek the help of your physician, or better still, an endocrinologist. If not, the least you should do is to take an X-ray or your hand and verify if you have completed epiphyseal fusion. If that is so, ABSOLUTELY NO DRUG OR THERAPY can help you grow taller besides Limb Extension Surgery. Anti-estrogen, or aromatase blockers, are available widely and might not require a prescription. They should be safe, but given that they deal with the brain, if you experience and neurologic effects like uncontrollable shaking of your hand, stop treatment and seek professional advice. Examples of anti-estrogen can be Letrivole, Tamoxifen and many more.

THOSE UNDER 15-16 ( or about that age )
___________________________________________

For those who are below 15-16, I hate to repeat this, but do seek your doctor's advice you are very short. If the doctor refuses to do anything, seek another doctor's opinion. If all else fails, you can follow what I outline below.

Height is largely based on genetic factors. The smaller factors can be the amount of growth factors in your blood, the function of your pituitary gland and also nutritional and sleep factors. Do note that stretching or excercise has not been proven to result in a permanent increase of height.

As an endocrinologist, I must state that even I and everyone DO NOT AT ALL understand fully the workings of the growth factors. What we know is limited. Let me highlight briefly what we know. We know that height is influenced by several growth factors, such as the amount of Insulin-like Growth Factor 1, the amount of Growth Hormone, the amount of Hormone which stimulates Growth Hormone release, and the amount of other minor growth factors. Testosterone does not in any way lead to increased adult stature. It can kickstart puberty if you have not shown any signs of puberty yet, but it definitely has not been shown to increase adult stature in ANY MEDICAL JOURNALS OR CLINICAL STUDIES. Do note that I emphasize MEDICAL JOURNALS and CLINICAL STUDIES. Whatever you do, do try to find more information from these sources as, chances are, they are scientifically carried out and their results and statements should be quite accurate and reliable.

That aside, let me note what YOU CAN DO to increase your height. This is what is under your control. The options to increase growth factors are

(a) Increase HGH or the hormone which promotes HGH release ( sorry, I don't recall the exact name )
(b) Increase IGF-1 levels

Increasing HGH level is risky at best, and this I cannot say anything about. Why risky? Not only can HGH result in LOWERED FINAL ADULT HEIGHT when taken inappropriately ( it may lead to earlier growth plate fusion and compromised or stunted height ), it can also disfigure you, or make you disproportionate, FOR LIFE. (a) is best done with the monitoring of a medical professional, not by yourself. I have seen cases of HGH injections or oral supplementation being administered wrongly even by medical professionals and this means you should NOT attempt home supplementation of HGH or any pro-hormones, like L-arginine or Creatine.

The safest you can do, without professional advice, is to increase IGF-1 levels. Again, this field is not understood by endocrinologists but what we do know is that many trials have demonstrated that IGF-1 levels correspond to increased height. IGF-1 can be given as injections, and this, I believe, would lead to complete and total absorption into the bloodstream and growth plates. IGF-1 can also be taken orally, without prescription, by taking Bovine Colostrum. Now, I do not know whether the IGF-1 in Colostrum is absorbed into your blood and make you taller. I also do not know the effects of very very high levels of IGF-1 or Colostrum on your final adult height. Therefore, don't act smart or whatever. IGF-1 supplementation is not recommended above 500mg per day. DO NOT TAKE MORE THAN THAT AMOUNT. Besides height-related effects, it is well documented that IGF-1 will lead to increased cell mutation, or a higher cancer risk.

For those around this age, you can also do anti-estrogen therapy, but again, it is risky. I recommend you do not take it yet until you are 16.0 years of age. What you can do is to drink 1 or 2 glasses of milk a day. This contains approx. 20-30mg of IGF-1. This is especially important if you have not started puberty yet. If you have already started puberty, it should still work, and work well it should ( at least, that is what doctors think )

Two more things you can do.

Daily supplemenation of the following nutrients at about these amounts should be instrumental in increasing final adult stature. Also, this is not a joke, but for males, do not ejaculate often. If you do, take some Zinc. Ejaculating will lead to loss of approx. 5mg of Zinc. For one day's dose, try not to exceed 30mg zinc. ( although toxic effects are reported only above 50mg )

The multivitamins below should be safe and should be taken everyday. The nutrients and vitamins and minerals below, have been what I have gleaned from many sources and forums, along with the help of my hospital nutritionalist, to be instrumental to growth.

Thiamin (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 75 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 75 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 75 mg
Folic Acid 400 mcg
Vitamin B-12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 75 mg
Calcium (as Calcium Carbonate) 100 mg
Iodine (as Kelp) 150 mcg
Zinc (as Zinc Oxide) 15 mg
Copper (as Copper Sulfate) 250 mcg
Manganese (as Manganese Sulfate) 6 mcg
Boron (as Boron Citrate) 100 mcg
Choline (as Choline Bitartrate) 35 mg

You might also want to take Potassium, which is found in bananas. All supplements do not carry much potassium as it might cause heart attack ( serious! )

The last one is of course, to get enough sleep. 8 hours of sleep is recommended AT ONE GO. Do not count naps in. 8 hours at night.

Specific to those who are 15.5-16 : You might want to start on anti-estrogen therapy since your plates are already fusing ( maybe halfway thru ). Before that, do a bone X-ray if you want, to determine if growth plates are fused already. ( else you'll be wasting your money ). You should also seek medical help immediately if you are still VERY SHORT. The window for HGH therapy is up to 16, I believe.

mroriginal
10-31-2005, 01:33 AM
Heres the rest of what he wrote

Please do follow my advice. I hope you find this useful. If you have any queries, respond to this post. Also, do not believe those scams and those idiots who want to make money only. I understand you are already feeling rotten being short. And I feel appalled that these people want to take advantage of you. That is why I have wrote this article, to help you. This is not a scam or whatever ( this can't be, since there isn't any specific brands or companies mentioned, just drug or nutrient names ). I wish you all the best and hope you will stand tall and free. For those who cannot expect to grow much taller, please do not despair. I had a secondary school friend who was very short. He's 15 and only 155cm. But he was my best friend and provided my a great deal of help and brightened my life a lot ( I had only 6, but close friends in a class of 40 at that time ). He was there when he I needed him and I was there for him when he needed me. He followed my advice. He's now still short, but not very short, standing quite tall at 165cm. Please, don't despair. Height is really not everything. You may be short, but its what inside that counts. Follow my advice closely, do whatever you can to grow taller, but if you still cannot, tell yourself. This is the most I have done. I have done all I can. Now, I'm short. But so? I am happy and free. I hope you can be as much as a sunshine to others as my best friend was, despite my 173cm frame towering over him ( when I was 15 ) ). My best friend has since accepted the fact he's short. He has other qualities though. he makes a good friend, he looks young and cute, he's always cheerful and he never gets depressed when his height is concerned. he's a lighthouse for me, and many others. and hes short.

Silver_Grizzly
10-31-2005, 12:03 PM
I wanna see these studies, sounds like it only works on paper to me.

mroriginal
11-01-2005, 02:01 PM
Hey all, I'm back I'll post some information about HGH and IGF-1 and hopefully clear some doubts.

Here are some facts :

1. IGF-1 builds cartilage
2. IGF-1 is a key factor in pubertal growth
3. IGF-1 is dependent on amount of HGH
4. IGF-1 stays longer in the bloodstream as compared to HGH
5. It is safer to take IGF-1 supplementation rather than HGH supplementation, which either don't work, or when taken orally, are taken in very minute amounts. Only HGH injections have the potential to help; but they are to be given by medical personnel.
6.Height growth in childhood and puberty is largely due to GH

Here is some elaboration..

GH causes the division of chondrocytes in cartilage ALONE, directly. But GH also cause IGF-1 to be produced. IGF-1 has a more distinct effect rather than GH in the case of growth.
The liver gets the signal from GH to start producing IGF-1. IGF has a multicrine effect, and can work via blood or via the target tissues themselves or via nearby tissues. Due to an increase in calcium retention when taking GH, people under GH tend to reach their final adult height faster, and this can be bad to your FINAL adult height. It limits your potential.

Let me sort out how the long bones work.
At the two sides of your bones are actually cartilage tissue and these cartilage have the potential to become hard bones; ossified bones. HOW DO growth plates fuse? Simply, the cartilage growth is slower than the ossification. That means that you grow cartilage slower than your body ossifies or builds bones. Does this mean 'long-and-steady wins the race'. A definite yes! If your growth has all along been slow and steady, you can expect to be pretty tall. Because your body is building cartilage all along when your body ossify the bone ( whcih is slow! ).

Why does GH cause all these?
Simply, GH causes ossification! So does calcium and all those bone-building supplements. It is totally wrong that calcium helps you grow taller. Yes, it increases bone density. Yes, it can prevent osteoporosis, but NO it does NOT make you grow taller and theoretically might work the other way! Healthy amounts are ok; just don't get overboard!

I also want to clarify the role of testosterone and estrogen in growth.

Testosterone has NO effect on its own, directly, to influence growth. Testosterone ONLY influences growth when it is aromatized to estrogen, in which it would result in earlier growth plate fusion; or bone ossification.

RaWBLooD
11-01-2005, 02:31 PM
f off with this bull****.

dirtyvibe
11-01-2005, 06:46 PM
This isn't bull****.. I've been researching height increase for about a year, and my conclusions are similar. Anti-estrogen medications like letrozole that block estrogen actually prevent/ slow down the bones from aging (fusing) .

like in that study he mentioned with the anti-estrogen, the letzrozole was given during the boy's growth spurts presumably for about 5 months, and there was a 5.1 cm increase in final height. that means i could postulate that had they continued the treatment for 10 months during the spurt, 10.2 cm would be gained. for hte normal 2 years, 20.4 cm = 8 inches.

I'm going to talk to my doctor about this before its too late.

mroriginal
11-01-2005, 07:13 PM
Dirtyvibe how old are you?

dirtyvibe
11-01-2005, 07:17 PM
17 now, 18 in 1 week and 1 day. i know my plates are still open because ive grown 1 cm in the past 6-7 months. slow, but open.

mroriginal
11-01-2005, 07:25 PM
I just turn 17, 10 days ago Im going to go to the doctor and check if my bones are fused or not on thursday.I dont think they are fused yet but who knows?everyone concerned about there height shoud read this.I am 5'7 btw.

dirtyvibe
11-01-2005, 07:33 PM
whats your AIM or MSN? i could show you a few things.

mroriginal
11-01-2005, 07:42 PM
did you get the private messege I sent to you?
Goodluck!
hope to hear from you

dirtyvibe
11-01-2005, 07:47 PM
i hate e-mail. if im gonna do that i might as well pm you.

mroriginal
11-01-2005, 08:10 PM
^^BUMP^^ alright fine But I dont think you can gain 20 inches!!
LOL maybe 3-8 inches.

My mistake I thought you said 20 inches but now I see 20cm

dirtyvibe
11-01-2005, 08:20 PM
haha i said 20.4 cm which = 8 inches. if the estrogen keeps your growth plates open though i dont really see a reason why you cant grow 20 more inches.

also, since the study was over a 5 month period, and you usually grow at 4 inches per year during a growth spurt, that would be about 2 inches during that 5 month period of normal non-drug induced growth. since a 2 inch (5.1 cm) final adult predicted height occured, i can only assume that the bone age didn't mature in any of that group significantly even under increased testosterone levels (= more androgens = bone aging). so it literally seemed to halt the aging to a miniscule level. so the height growth potential could, to me theoretically, be infinite.

Jester
11-01-2005, 08:26 PM
Insecurity is not a reason to have a medical procedure.



Maybe you should instead look at stem cells and GROW A PAIR OF NUTS.

mroriginal
11-01-2005, 08:43 PM
WTF?shut up! Noone ever said any thing about a medical procedure you idiot!You probably dont know what half this s**t means!

sorry I dont know what was me there.please forgive me but you must learn how to respect others.

dirtyvibe
11-01-2005, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Jester
Insecurity is not a reason to have a medical procedure.



Maybe you should instead look at stem cells and GROW A PAIR OF NUTS.

why not? its like growing more muscle mass. you're genetically preprogrammed to get to a certain height because of these various factors (ie- height is the result of many processes). change any of these and you can alter your final height. i see no problem doing this if you can.. its kinda like lifting weights.

fonderboy
11-02-2005, 01:32 AM
Hey!! I'm in a similar predicament. I recently turned 18 (just about a month ago) and I am about 5'6 1/2, and the really aggravating thing is my dad is taller than me at about 5'8, even though I grew up with more access to food.

Like dirtyvibe, I too have been researching about height growth, and everything you said is very similar to what I have read. I have been wanting to go to the doctor for a bone age test but my dad is really dragging his feet about it.

If you have any additional information to PM me I would love to read it.

Thanks in advance.

edit: oh, and if I'm not growing much anymore, how much do you predict I will be able to grow before my epiphyses completely fuse?

dirtyvibe
11-02-2005, 06:19 AM
^ ^ I have no clue, it depends on your genetics. Some people even slow down their growth and have a huge late growth spurt, depends on the person.

My family is reaalllly spread out in genetics: dad = 6', mom = 5'3 or 5'4, bro = 6'4, sister = 5', me = 5'8

fonderboy
11-02-2005, 06:33 PM
I already had a growth spurt =(

From everything I've read, nothing said that there would be a second growth spurt.

dirtyvibe
11-02-2005, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by fonderboy
I already had a growth spurt =(

From everything I've read, nothing said that there would be a second growth spurt.

It's different for every guy. Besides, some guys grow a considerable amount steadily after their growth spurt anyways.

NewDude001
11-02-2005, 06:55 PM
This is insane, I'm just wondering if you guys see the possible risks involved with all this. I too want to grow taller (5' 7'' at 17) but something that messes with your brain's normal function...and then something that pumps you full of IGF-1....seems sketchy at best. If this is safe *according to a doctor* then I'm all for it, but right I'm a little skeptical.

mroriginal
11-02-2005, 07:01 PM
Not all of the Igf-1 in the colostrom will get absorbed in your body.The guy even said that you cant exceed over 500 mgs of IGF-1.

NewDude001
11-02-2005, 07:14 PM
Yeah, I know, I realize that you aren't taking fatal amounts of IGF-1. Still, you are ingesting WAY more than the recommended dosage. I'm not here to debate if this is a safe way to grow taller, I'm just saying one of us should ask a professional before trying anything as untested as this;)

mroriginal
11-02-2005, 08:00 PM
I dont see how blocking estrogen will affect your brains function if you are a man.If your a women on the other hand thats different.I dont know how everything works Im not the endicronologist here.I dont want to give anyone false hope,I am a good person,I am gonna grab my balls and go for it.

NewDude001
11-02-2005, 08:21 PM
Are you going to at least talk to a doctor about that you're about to try? You really should talk to a professional dude, for your own sake. It could work and I respect all the research you've done to come up with this, just make sure it's safe by someone who knows their ****.

mroriginal
11-02-2005, 08:24 PM
Dont worry Im going to the doctor tomorrow to see if this is safe or not.

There is nothing insane about it IGF-1 is cow milk



IGF-1 will cause growth hormone secretion to drop. But IGF-1 happens to be more powerful to growth hormone in causing bone growth. In fact, the main route of action of HGH is via IGF-1. Why? Because when the liver detects HGH levels, it will secrete IGF-1. By taking IGF-1 supplements, for a short time of a few hours, we are increasing the IGF-1 levels in our blood. But when the pituitary detects high levels of IGF-1, then it stops producing HGH and thus the liver stops producing natural IGF-1. This is why after some time of taking IGF-1 supplements, levels are generally restored. The body tries to stay with a certain amount of IGF-1 in the bloodstream, but by taking IGF, then we spike IGF-1 for a period of time, before it drops to normal again. Growth hormone does feed back to the hyptothalmus to stop GHRH secretion and thus maintain the adequate amount of GH. I don't think GH has an autocrine effect on its own cells.

'Unless you are IGF-1 deficient, there's no point to decreasing HGH levels. Because if more and more igf-1 is in the blood the body creates less and less human growth hormone.'. GH works to increase height primarily via IGF-1. Other functions like body-building via GH are caused by GH itself.


Increase IGF-1 levels mean decrease blood sugar levels = more somatostatin.

Just don't get anything containing amino acids. Amino acids are found in just the right amounts in a healthy diet. For multivitamin, try Centrum or try the GNC Ultra Mega. ( GNC I think absorbs better though, but Centrum cheaper a little )

NewDude001
11-02-2005, 09:55 PM
So what you're saying is that both GH and IGF-1 affect bone growth, but IGF-1 has a slightly greater effect? If this is true, maybe all you need is the estrogen blocker since adding IGF-1 would result in minimal gains with potential risks. You seem to know a lot more on the subject, you think you could still get significant gains with just the estrogen blocker?

mroriginal
11-02-2005, 10:09 PM
No because estrogen is what makes your bones fuse early.Why do you think girls stop growing before guys?
By blocking the estrogen you will have plenty of time to do what you need to do.Estrogen blockers wont make you grow.Heres the thing HGH will make you grow but will fuse your plates really early it may even stunt your growth.its very risky.IGF-1 wont do that.Taking the right amount of IGF-1 will make you grow along with the vitamins mentioned in the first page.

NewDude001
11-02-2005, 10:54 PM
Okay, so the estrogen blocker buys you more time, I understand that. Why wouldn't you be able to ride out on the natural secreation of IGF-1 secreted in response to HGH? Are those IGF-1 spikes really nessessary? Or could you just let the body grow off its own IGF-1 for a much longer time thanks to the estrogen blocker?

mroriginal
11-02-2005, 11:04 PM
You could but you wont grow very much.The process is probably very slow so without enough IGF1 you might only grow 1 0r 2cms which is barely nothing.besides if you do that you would be spending alot of money on anti-estrogen for a very long time.

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 12:57 AM
What is the relative cost for estrogen-blockers?

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 01:15 AM
Tamixofen cost 60$ where as arimidex is 200$ but dont worry about the price of arimdex, there are plenty of estrogen blockers with diferent prices.

Pm me later Ill see wich one is right.

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 01:20 AM
Wow.... $60 to last how long?

If I have to spend $300 to only gain <1 inch its not worth it.. or maybe it is..

Be sure to get back to us after you go to the doctor's =)

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 01:23 AM
well if you take chrysin that will be 10-25$ a month
Noones talking about an inch were talking INCHES!
3- maybe 8inches.

Depends on the person.

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 01:32 AM
Just to add : Chrysin and some other anti-estrogen 'dietary supplements' might result in increased testosterone levels and that is not what we want. We want testosterone levels to remain the same, but estrogen levels to decrease. Femara ( Letrozole ) and Tamoxifen does not usually cause an increase in testosterone levels. The other ones I am not that sure. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this if anyone has ever taken an estrogen blocker.

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 04:17 PM
I went to the doc today and said he doubts that I would grow anymore (If I didnt do anything About it)he didnt check if my plates were fused or not because they dont do xrays in his clinic but he said since I have very little body hair that they are probably not but are probably in the process of fusing.He sounded like he didnt know much about this so I think thats why he made me a refferal to an endicronologist.I didnt get much information from him since the clinic was full.Sh**ty doctor
sorry guys.

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 04:46 PM
Damn, past few months I have started getting more body hair.

I hope I still have hope.

If my growth plates are probably almost fused, and I started taking this now, how much taller do you think I will get if I start taking the estrogen-blockers?

Also, are they injected via needle like HGH? Or taken orally?

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 04:57 PM
I did a quick search and found this
Sex hormones may influence longitudinal growth, either indirectly, by affecting the growth-hormone-insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) axis, or directly, by affecting changes within the epiphyseal growth plate (EGP). The aim of the present study was to investigate the effects of letrozole, an aromatase inhibitor, on longitudinal growth and changes in the EGP in vivo. Eighteen peripubertal male mice were divided into three groups. The first group was killed at baseline, the second was injected with letrozole (Femara) s.c., 2 mg/kg body weight/day, for 10 days, and the third was injected with the vehicle alone. Serum testosterone levels were found to be significantly higher in the treated group than in the controls. Letrozole induced a significant increase in body weight, tail length and serum growth hormone level, but had no significant effect on the level of serum IGF-I. On histomorphometric study, there was a significant increase (12%) in EGP height in the treated animals compared with controls. Immunohistochemistry showed a 3.4-fold letrozole-induced increase in the proliferation of the EGP chondrocytes, as estimated by the number of proliferation cell nuclear antigen-stained cells, and a decrease in the differentiation of the EGP chondrocytes, as estimated by type X collagen staining. Letrozole did not interfere with type II collagen levels. The study group also showed a twofold increase in the number of IGF-I receptor-positive cells compared with controls. In conclusion, the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole, appears to increase the linear growth potential of the EGP in mice.

Basically, the mice who had taken letrozole had their long bones increased in length by 12%, which is pretty significant. They also had higher testosterone levels, though.

I also saw another page that said patients between 9 yrs old - 14.5 yrs old who took Letrozone for 2 years had their predicted adult height increased by 5.9 cm (approx 2 inches), and had their bone mineral apparent density increase by 4.3%.

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 05:00 PM
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING!You must get an xray in your hand to see if you have completed epyphiseal fusion and go check an endicronologist if your bones are fused theres nothing you can do about it except to pray for a miracle breakthrough.

IGf-1 can be injected which I think would probably work better

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 05:04 PM
*Sigh* :(

I've been wanting to get a bone age scan. The first time I told my dad was probably 2 years ago, when I still definitely had hope. Then I kind of forgot about it, but recently I've had a renewed interest in height so I have been talking to him about it again, but he seems to think it's low priority.

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 05:25 PM
I cant really help you unless you get an xray in your hand and have the doctor check if your bones are fused or not.Sorry wish I could help you but if you buy the estrogen blockers now you would not know if they are working or not an you could be wasting your money for several years.BUT dont worry height isnt everything, its nothing trust me girls say they would prefer a taller guy but trust me they dont even care.Most would prefer a taller guy but they wouldnt mind a short guy either.example;Two goodlooking guys,one drives a lexus the other drives a ford sure girls would prefer the guy with the lexus but they wouldnt turn down the other guy down just because he drives a ford.

One more thing Im not doing this to get chicks,ever since I was a little boy I always wanted to tower over everyone.Its just a dominant thing.But ive come to realize that you can still be short and be the alpha male you always wanted to be.

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 05:48 PM
Likewise, doing it for chicks isn't even my primary concern.

Being short is a social handicap; people look down on you, they don't respect you as much, and their first impression is not as good.

On the other side of the spectrum, being tall gives you many advantages. From first glance, people subconciously and automatically assume you are better, thus they become somewhat submissive. People also try to talk to you more, and think you are somehow higher on the social status. Furthermore, taller people make more money than their shorter peers.

However, mainly it's just a dominant thing, I just like being better than other people.

NewDude001
11-03-2005, 07:08 PM
hmm, I actually get a stronger impression from large muscles and frame than height. If I see that a smaller guy can beat the shi*t out of me...I give him more social value over some scrawny tall dude. ;)

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 09:09 PM
Being tall AND muscular is even better =P

NewDude001
11-03-2005, 09:13 PM
mrorigional found an amazing link with a crapload of information, enjoy http://www.eurogrop.org/meeting.htm

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 09:56 PM
The effect of Letrozole on bone age progression, predicted adult heights and adrenal gland function. WV Karmazin, J Moore, J Popovic, JD Jacobson. Children's Mercy Hospital, University of Missouri Kansas City School of Medicine, USA.

A common problem in pediatric endocrinology is limited growth potential resulting from advanced bone ages. GnRH agonists, which are frequently used in such situations, can be associated with injection site pain, psychological consequences of delayed puberty, and deleterious effects on bone mineral density. Several studies have shown that some boys with constitutional delay of puberty do not exploit their genetic growth potential. In these boys, androgen treatment does not increase adult height. As evidence for the role of estrogens in epiphyseal closure seems unequivocal, it has been postulated that boys with constitutional delay of puberty would attain greater adult height if estrogen action were suppressed [Wickman, 2001 #56; Wickman, 2003 #55]. Dr Popovic, Children's Mercy Hospital, University of Missouri Kansas City School of Medicine, USA, presented evidence that letrozole, a third generation aromatase inhibitor, would be safe and effective in increasing predicted adult height in a population of adolescent males. In this study, male patients who were taking letrozole at the time of their visits to clinic were eligible for enrolment in two separate studies. The efficacy study involved a retrospective chart review of auxologic parameters and bone age progression. Of 60 patients enrolled in the efficacy study, 34 subjects had sufficient data for analysis. 6 were excluded because they had received prior treatment with Depot-Lupron, radiation therapy, a different aromatase inhibitor, or had syndromes associated with short stature. The remaining 28 patients included 6 patients treated with androgen, who were analyzed separately. In the safety study, low-dose ACTH stimulation tests were performed on 15 patients taking letrozole for a period ? 6 months. The efficacy study demonstrated a decrease in bone age progression from 1.53 ? 0.13 to 0.65 ? 0.09 bone age years per year after starting letrozole therapy (p < 0.001). In addition there was an increase in predicted adult height from 169.7 ? 1.1 cm prior to starting letrozole to 173.7 ? 1.0 cm after a mean duration of treatment of 14 months (p=0.01). Similar results were noted in the 6 androgen-treated patients. The safety arm revealed that 26.7% of patients displayed subnormal responsiveness to ACTH. These results showed that aramatose inhibitor. Thus whereas letrozole may cause mild adrenal suppression, it is extremely effective in increasing final height prediction in boys at risk for compromised adult height.

Thats a bit of the information from the link that I wanted to show you guys.

For those of you who dont know what letrozole is,it is an aramatose inhibitor (estrogen blocker).

You might not get all of it I dont get a few of things of what they are talking about either but to simplify they are stating that letrozole has been shown to slow down plate fusion by alot.

fonderboy
11-03-2005, 10:43 PM
For somebody who has already completed their major growth spurt probably 1-2 years ago, roughly how much do you think this person would benefit from taking letrozole?

0-1 inches?
1-2 inches?
2-4 inches?
4+ inches?

Assuming that their growth plates aren't closed yet (hopefully).

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 11:09 PM
Honestly I dont know but just expect to grow atleast 2 or 3 inches in 3 1/2years.

Fonder boy dont try this if your plates are fused or else you will be wasting alot money.

mroriginal
11-03-2005, 11:38 PM
Blank sorry can someone teach me how to post this link
www.intense-training.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5273.html
other people from other forums are talking about this too.
www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=3595997#post3595997