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You Can Prove A Negative

Deep Dish

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The following was borrowed from a recent newsletter of Skeptic magazine and "permission is granted to print, distribute, and post with proper citation and acknowledgment." It goes to prove what I have been arguing for a long time: "You can't prove a negative" and most especially "We don't know what we don't know" are weak arguments and the latter argument is a logical fallacy (arguing from ignorance). You cannot prove there is not a golden unicorn statue in the center of Jupiter, impervious to the planet's pulverizing atmosphere, but you are unjustified believing there is one.

You Can Prove a Negative
by Steven D. Hales

A principle of folk logic is that you can’t prove a negative. Skeptics and scientists routinely concede the point in debates about the possible existence of everything from Big Foot and Loch Ness to aliens and even God. In a recent television interview on Comedy Central’s The Colbert Report, for example, Skeptic publisher Michael Shermer admitted as much when Stephen Colbert pressed him on the point when discussing Weapons of Mass Destruction, the comedian adding that once it is admitted that scientists cannot prove the nonexistence of a thing, then belief in anything is possible. Even Richard Dawkins writes in The God Delusion that “you cannot prove God’s non-existence is accepted and trivial, if only in the sense that we can never absolutely prove the non-existence of anything.”

There is one big problem with this. Among professional logicians, guess how many think that you can’t prove a negative? That’s right, zero. Yes, Virginia, you can prove a negative, and it’s easy, too. For one thing, a real, actual law of logic is a negative, namely the law of non-contradiction. This law states that that a proposition cannot be both true and not true. Nothing is both true and false. Furthermore, you can prove this law. It can be formally derived from the empty set using provably valid rules of inference. (I’ll spare you the boring details). One of the laws of logic is a provable negative. Wait... this means we’ve just proven that it is not the case that one of the laws of logic is that you can’t prove a negative. So we’ve proven yet another negative! In fact, “you can’t prove a negative” is a negative — so if you could prove it true, it wouldn’t be true! Uh-oh.

Not only that, but any claim can be expressed as a negative, thanks to the rule of double negation. This rule states that any proposition P is logically equivalent to not-not-P. So pick anything you think you can prove. Think you can prove your own existence? At least to your own satisfaction? Then, using the exact same reasoning, plus the little step of double negation, you can prove that you are not nonexistent. Congratulations, you’ve just proven a negative. The beautiful part is that you can do this trick with absolutely any proposition whatsoever. Prove P is true and you can prove that P is not false.

You can easily construct a valid deductive argument with all true premises that yields the conclusion that there are no unicorns. Here’s one, using the valid inference procedure of modus tollens (Latin for “mode that affirms by denying”):

1. If unicorns had existed, then there is evidence in the fossil record.
2. There is no evidence of unicorns in the fossil record.
3. Therefore, unicorns never existed.

[Deep Dish says: This is part of what I call the Negative Evidence Principle. A person is reasonably justified in not believing P if: 1) all evidence supporting P is unreliable, 2) evidence which should exist if P were true cannot be found, 3) the search has been exhaustive]

Someone might object that that was a bit too fast — after all, I didn’t prove that the two premises were true. I just asserted that they were true. Well, that’s right. However, it would be a grievous mistake to insist that someone prove all the premises of any argument they might give. Here’s why. The only way to prove, say, that there is no evidence of unicorns in the fossil record, is by giving an argument to that conclusion. Of course one would then have to prove the premises of that argument by giving further arguments, and then prove the premises of those further arguments, ad infinitum. Which premises we should take on credit and which need payment up front is a matter of long and involved debate among epistemologists. But one thing is certain: if proving things requires that an infinite number of premises get proved first, we’re not going to prove much of anything at all, positive or negative.

Maybe people mean that no inductive argument will conclusively, indubitably prove a negative proposition beyond all shadow of a doubt. For example, suppose someone argues that we’ve scoured the world for Bigfoot, found no credible evidence of Bigfoot’s existence, and therefore there is no Bigfoot. This is a classic inductive argument. A Sasquatch defender can always rejoin that Bigfoot is reclusive, and might just be hiding in that next stand of trees. You can’t prove he’s not! (until the search of that tree stand comes up empty too). The problem here isn’t that inductive arguments won’t give us certainty about negative claims (like the nonexistence of Bigfoot), but that inductive arguments won’t give us certainty about anything at all, positive or negative. All observed swans are white, therefore all swans are white looked like a pretty good inductive argument until black swans were discovered in Australia.

The very nature of an inductive argument is to make a conclusion probable, but not certain, given the truth of the premises. That is just what an inductive argument is. We’d better not dismiss induction because we’re not getting certainty out of it, though. Why do you think that the sun will rise tomorrow? Not because of observation (you can’t observe the future!), but because that’s what it has always done in the past. Why do you think that if you turn on the kitchen tap that water will come out instead of chocolate? Why do you think you’ll find your house where you last left it? Again, because that’s the way things have always been in the past. In other words, we use inferences — induction — from past experiences in every aspect of our lives. As Bertrand Russell once pointed out, the chicken who expects to be fed when he sees the farmer approaching, since that is what had always happened in the past, is in for a big surprise when instead of receiving dinner, he becomes dinner. But if the chicken had rejected inductive reasoning altogether, then every appearance of the farmer would be a surprise.

So why is it that people insist that you can’t prove a negative? I think it is the result of two things: (1) Disappointment that induction is not bulletproof, airtight, and infallible, and (2) A desperate desire to keep believing whatever one believes, even if all the evidence is against it. That’s why people keep believing in alien abductions, even when flying saucers always turn out to be weather balloons, stealth jets, comets, or too much alcohol. You can’t prove a negative! You can’t prove that there are no alien abductions! Meaning: your argument against aliens is inductive, therefore not incontrovertible. Since I want to believe in aliens, I’m going to dismiss the argument no matter how overwhelming the evidence against aliens, and no matter how vanishingly small the chance of extraterrestrial abduction.

If we’re going to dismiss inductive arguments because they produce conclusions that are probable but not definite, then we are in deep manure. Despite its fallibility, induction is vital in every aspect of our lives, from the mundane to the most sophisticated science. Without induction we know basically nothing about the world apart from our own immediate perceptions. So we’d better keep induction, warts and all, and use it to form negative beliefs as well as positive ones.

You can prove a negative — at least as much as you can prove anything at all.
 

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SmoothTalker

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I think the problem here is, that there is a difference between the real world and theory.

In certain abstract areas, you CAN prove or disprove things beyond a shadow of a doubt. For example, in math, whether through induction or a direct proof, you can prove something beyond a shadow of a doubt and if your proof is valid, it will always hold.

This is where rules of logic apply.

Despite what logicians may want to believe, I don't think rules of logic apply in quite so clear cut a way to the real world.

After all, using their arguement, a few hundred years ago it would have been possible to prove that it's not possible to fly, or that it's not possible to bring back someone from the dead (at least after a couple of minutes..) or whatever other modern marvel you consider.


Basically the problem is this. They use formal rules that only truely apply in abstract cases, such as math. But in those cases, their claim that induction can't prove anything conclusively is false, just look up mathematical induction.. Instead, they take logic rules and apply them somewhere where they don't belong, and use it to prove a point.
 

SmoothTalker

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No.. We know the properties of elephants, daisies, and gravity, and that's not possible.

All I'm saying is when you look at things where we don't know all the relevant facts, we can't say that something is impossible. As in my example, where it wouldn't have been right for people in the past to say flying was impossible just because it's never been done. They couldn't say that because they didn't have a complete understanding of aerodynamics and physics in general.

So actually to answer your question.. on earth, no. If we took the elephant to a different planet with much weaker gravity.. sure, it's possible, just not right now.

Look I'm a rational person, I don't have any wacky beliefs like magic or vampires or anything, and I agree that for practical purposes, if we don't have any evidence of something, it's probably okay to assume it doesn't exist.

But, to claim this is a formal logical arguement is wrong, and has been proven so by past experience, if nothing else.
 

The Forms

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SmoothTalker said:
I don't think rules of logic apply in quite so clear cut a way to the real world.
The rules of logic apply absolutely in the real world. But it's easy to get confused here because you have to make the distinction in formal logic between validity and soundness (a distinction that needs to be addressed in an article like the one above if those reading it haven't learned any formal logic).

For a logician to say an argument is VALID is to say that the premesis necessarily lead to the conclusion. But you can stick any wacky propositions into the premesis and if you use the correct logical formulas we have to accept the conclusion.

However, it doesn't mean that the conclusion is SOUND (or, reflecting the truth of the real world). For example, here's an argument that is VALID, but not SOUND.

1) Everyone named George is a Black guy
2) George Bush is named George
therefore
3) George Bush is a Black guy

this follows an acceptable logical formula. This is a VALID argument, however, it is not SOUND. So, if you have a problem with a logical argument that is valid in construction, then you are not arguing that the conclusion isn't valid based on the premesis, you're arguing that the argument is not sound.

It's not a problem with the logic, it's a problem with one of the premesis. In the case above, you would argue that the 1st premiss is untrue. That's how you would attack the arguement. You wouldn't attack logic, or logicians.

As for your objection about Logicians proving that there is no way to fly, he already covered that objection in his article. In the 5th article he talks about how you can always call one of a person's premesis into question. And about the slippery slope of having to prove each premiss (because you need other premesis to prove the one in question, which entails more and more premesis ad infinitum).

It's not a problem with logic if you can prove we can't fly. It's a problem with the person's premesis.
 

Phyzzle

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...
 

Phyzzle

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I think the author is quite confused.

Not only that, but any claim can be expressed as a negative, thanks to the rule of double negation.
When people say, "you can't prove a negative", the word "negative" means negation of the existence of something. The word "negative" does not mean "a negative claim" in this context!

Then, he sort of gets back on track and suggest that claims about non-existence can be proved, but only by using induction. But that's not what you use!

Logicians have criteria to call the existence of something unjustified, but none of them depend on inductive logic. One valued test is to ask if the statement "X exists" or if the statement "X does not exist" has any observable consequences. If neither do, then there is no justification for saying it exists. There is, on the other hand, a justification for saying it does not exist: simplicity. (This is another way of explaining Occam's Razor.)

You cannot prove there is not a golden unicorn statue in the center of Jupiter, impervious to the planet's pulverizing atmosphere, but you are unjustified believing there is one.
I mean, the example of Jupiter is a good example of an unjustified belief in the existence of something . . . but what the heck does the Jupiter thingy have to do with induction? :confused:

As for whether inductive evidence makes a statement "more likely to be true", that's a whole different can of worms this guy probably hasn't thought about.
 

Potbelly

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This article proved nothign at all...didn't advance my understanding of jack sh1t. Just went in circles.
 

Gubby

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In science, you don't PROVE anything in the pure sense. Statistically a 95% certainty is considered "proven". But a scientist has to be ready to change any idea of his as new evidence and ideas come up.

Just like it was obvious the world was flat, by looking at it. Without further evidence wouldn't you decide that that was basically proven?
 

CrunchyNut

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I may be totally off here as it's two in the morning and I am a little tipsy, but I would argue that only some negatives are provable.

You can prove the negative that 2+2 does not equal 5. You cannot prove that unicorns do not exist.

The universe's extension is indefinate. As Kant pointed out, for us the universe only extends for us as far as our perception does. As a result, even if we have perceived the entirety of the universe, we can never know that we have done. Therefore if we argue that unicorns cannot exist as we have not perceived any evidence of them, we are at most able to say that unicorns have never existed in the parts of the universe that we have perceived. We may (due to flaws with the premises) not even be able to say that.

As Hume showed fairly convincingly, we cannot learn anything about the future mind-independent world through induction. As a result, you cannot prove an a posteriori negative.
 

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