Sometimes they never grow up

[jophil28]

Here is a story for all you mature guys who "think" that a mature woman is more likely to be stable .
MY 49 year old Ex G/F (J) is very attractive and very feminine. She descibed herself as "passive and compliant" when we first met ( Oopps?) She came out of a 6 year bad relationship recently and previously had a 10 year roller-coaster marriage witha 'bad guy'- three kids cocaine, alcohol and lots of money.
WE got into some hot sex very early and after two months the drama started. She is the "to and fro " type. She likes being in a "relationship' BUT has no clue about how to build one and do the maintenance.
WE Broke up 4 times in the first 6 months. She was always the one to call me to get back together and like a ****HEAD I went back without any real changes. She was a real confusing woman and was addicted to affection and "the feelings and of sex and romance ".-She said "The playing is what I want."

Anyways, back in May she called me one Saturday morning after having her hair done at her sister's salon. " We need to talk."
So I meet her for coffee at our regular break-up/make-up coffee shop (yep!)
It is about 11am and we talk for half an hour.
She says , "Just want to be friends -etc." (The usual drivel that chics say when they want to part company or they are angry and confused )
She then says , " I was hoping to talk to you about this more privately."
I suggest that we go to my place . ( I am not sure why she said that at the time. )
Anyway, we are in my kitchen and I am fixing some sandwiches and my brother arrives to do some carpentry work so we go into my bedroom.
It is now about 12:30pm - we spent the next three hours have fantastic sex like nothing had happened . Somewhere in the convo she asked if "WE are having break-up sex.". She was very hot and saying stuff like," I have trouble leaving relationships and you now need to form intimate relationships with other women." I tossed most of this in the BS bin.

At about 5pm she says that she needs to go home to cook dinner for her 17 year old son. I said. " Lets go out tonight for coffee and dancing."
SHe sits up in my bed, looks at me and says, " Hmm, I guess that coffee and dancing are inside the boundaries of a 'friendship' " !!!???
SHe comes back to collect me at 8 pm and we go off to have a very smooth romantic night. She emails me the next day thanking me for a great night and saying how she feels good now that she does not feel any pressure (??.)

There is more that followed in this 'relationship' ,but that can wait till my next post.

Any comments about this guys ?

 

[realsmoothie]

I'd agree with this a lot... even moreso by my personal experience lately that shows how much older women try to seperate themselves from the younger ones by citing how the younger ones are somehow less capable.

Funnily enough, a lot of this sentiment has come from my normally sensible mom. A few times I've told her of recent issues with girls and she's said "well, you have to realize that she's pretty young"... as if this is some kind of excuse. Then I'll point out the couple of bad things that girls in their late 20's have done to me (flaking, etc.) and she's like "oh right, I forgot about her".

Funny how I've been educating my mom on some of this stuff recently. Wont' tell her where it came from...

 

[logicallefty]

I am a long way from a Senior DJ, but: In my opinion she is making moves to gain back the power in the relationship, and it's working.. THink about it.. If you agree to "just be her friend" and keep going about your regular relationship adventures, she now has an open ended free ticket to say you can't do something YOU want because you guys are just friends.... SHe has all the power now...

If I were you I'd say "one thing friends do for each other is give dating advice.. I've got this girl bla bla bla that I would like to go out with and wondered if you could give me some advice".. Even if you don't have one in the bullpin, make something up... :trouble: I have a feeling that her interest level may be teatering on the boarder and the thought of you with another woman just may be all you need to get things back in your favor ;-) good luck..

 

[squirrels]

She's got more red flags in her history than the USSR, you've broken up with her 5 times now, she's constantly flaking back and forth, and you're STILL trying to romance her long-term.

WHO in this story is the one that hasn't grown up??

She's addicted to drama...moreso than most women. She won't be happy until you get all coked up and start smacking her around. She probably loves the way you treat her, but wants to go out and screw around with other men to get her "fix".

If you're using her for anything other than a place to dip your cawk at this point, you're wasting your time.

 

[Sinistar]

This appears to be the same woman as the other thread. Comments withdrawn.

 

[d9930380]

Just like men don't change - either do women.

 

[Deep Dish]

She came out of a 6 year bad relationship recently and previously had a 10 year roller-coaster marriage witha 'bad guy'- three kids cocaine, alcohol and lots of money.

She was either physically or sexually abused as a little kid or teenager.

She is the "to and fro " type. She likes being in a "relationship' BUT has no clue about how to build one and do the maintenance.

Abused.

She was a real confusing woman and was addicted to affection and "the feelings and of sex and romance ".-She said "The playing is what I want."

Abused. She cannot tolerate intimacy with a good person; the instant intimacy threatens is precisely the moment she sabotages.

Somewhere in the convo she asked if "WE are having break-up sex.". She was very hot and saying stuff like,"I have trouble leaving relationships and you now need to form intimate relationships with other women." I tossed most of this in the BS bin.

Yes, trouble leaving chaotic relationships but no problem leaving stability.

At about 5pm she says that she needs to go home to cook dinner for her 17 year old son. I said. " Lets go out tonight for coffee and dancing." SHe sits up in my bed, looks at me and says, " Hmm, I guess that coffee and dancing are inside the boundaries of a 'friendship' " !!!???

You guessed it...

SHe comes back to collect me at 8 pm and we go off to have a very smooth romantic night. She emails me the next day thanking me for a great night and saying how she feels good now that she does not feel any pressure (??.)

...abused.

Any comments about this guys ?

People with chaotic childhoods become programmed to need chaos in their life. To them, chaos is fun, exhilirating, and stimulating; stability and normality is boring, dull. This has nothing to do with maturity but simply how someone's instincts are wired; we make choices upon instincts and not mature thinking. Ladies who were abused always must either be the abuser or abused, abandoner or abandoned, often switching roles from relationship to relationship. Invariably they get sick of the bad boys and seek out nice guys, and things are good initially, but since they can't stand intimacy, with their instincts equating love with either abuse or abandonment, they will sabotage relationships right when intimacy threatens to strike. The only thing you can do is walk away and resist all her efforts.

 

[Metro3pilot]

This sounds like a great sex only relationship ... disconnect emotions before you get hurt ....

YOU CAN NEVER SAVE A PERSON ! ....so unless you're a masochist who needs to be a savoir ...watch yourself

:nono: Good luck

 

[jophil28]

Thanks Deep Dish - your comments are right on the money.
She came from an alcoholic, physically and emotionally abusive wealthy childhood. Her father also had "affairs" and her mom just looked away and chopped the carrots.
My G/f obviously regards abandonment in relationships as 'normal'.
Her behavior swings from 'victim' to 'perpetrator'..
There is one part of her that is clingy and needy but another part is also abusive and callous. -unemotional and coldly willing to wound others.
SHe looks to intimate relationships to provide her with a supply of ,money and cheap affection- just immediate male attention ( not true deep mutual caring)
Whenever she felt the intimacy demands of our relationship, she found ways to undermine it, run away, or become distant and unavailable .
She was in but out. To and fro .
SHe 'appeared' to want the fun from a relationship but did not want to really BE in one. SHe behaved totally inconsistently and fiercely resisted any discussions which I initiated to try to resolve our diofferences . We always came away from "peace talks' with more drama that when we started talking . SHe was also a "covert drama queen" ,
She was highly reactive, hyper-alert and emotionally unstable . I always felt uncertain and anxious when we were on a date - she could walk out at any moment over the most trivial issues.
Dating her was an emotional swirling ,head spinning experience - high highs and low lows.
All my attempts to "stabilize " the relationship were unsuccessful -she seemed to be "on edge' most of the time . WE never settle even ONE difficulty between us - instead we just added to the dogpile daily.

I liked your comments about her having no trouble leaving stability.
She claims to want a 'normal' life but then when I offered her one she did all that she could to blow it . This is a very conflicted woman and I am still not sure whether she is BPD or she is acting out as an ACoA (adult child of an alcoholic) Maybe both . Maybe the distinction does not matter.

This may take some time for me to recover too - I feel pretty beat up by this experience.

 

[penkitten]

i believe when you meet a person that is interested in you for the first time, they tell you things that are not exactly true.
passive = aggressive
last break up ended well = probally didnt
happy = wishes to be
social butterfly = secretly is lonely
dont like drama = lives for it
mature = pretends to be
clean for a while = except for the other day haha

you really never know someone you are dating until you have dated them more than three months. thats when their salesperson persona wears off and they start feeling comfortable and act the way they normally are.

i call this the 90 day rule. never judge the person completely or vow to stay faithful and ask for a ltr until after the 90 day evaulation is complete.

 

[amoka]

the 90 day rule. never judge the person completely or vow to stay faithful and ask for a ltr until after the 90 day evaulation is complete.

super!

 

[jophil28]

Once in a while( a long while for me ) you meet a woman who "does" it for you. I have had 3 of them in 30 years of dating (all the rest were nice, and fun but, ultimately you know that they are not 'long term ' material) Then SHE appears out of pure chance and you are drawn in quickly and deeply. In my case this latest ONE turned out to be a nutjob with the best body I have ever F**ked.
The hooks went into me and she played her drama queen/ mind games -
I switched from being a detached , cool man into a nervous , uncertain "puppy dog excited " wuss. I tried to stay cool BUT I gave myself away several times.
Trying to be cool around a 'mind-f**king' hot BPD lady is nearly impossible. I just walked out several times when it got too much BUT then she came after me and I went back and we did it all over and over. Addiction is an awful thing. The LOVE drug is the most destructive of all.

 

[Surefire179]

My God, I think I was dating your ex's 28 year old twin. I couldn't have described her actions any differently. It was the most destructive relationship I had ever been in and I am still in the process of recovering and figuring out what the hell happened. I think what I've learned from the experience is that red flags should never be ignored, regardless of if the girl is gorgeous and insane in bed as my ex was, and in my case the flags DEFINITELY were there. The mental, emotional, and physical repurcussions of falling for someone like this can ruin a man's life. I consider myself lucky for getting out when I did.

 

[jophil28]

These women are slutty 14 year-old teens in adult bodies. A lot of their appeal to us is really the child/woman thing. She looks like a real BIG girl but there is so much teenage behavior and mannerisms - all girly and helpless and passive ( for a while !)
Then the cruel behavior starts and you are no longer her KNIGHT,you are just an "optional extra". By the time this crap starts you are IN big time and thinking RELATIONSHIP. She hears your thoughts and senses your intentions for the future and starts the "intimacy sabotage " stuff which is designed to keep you just far enough in the distance so that SHE gets what she wants,on her terms, BUT you always feel hungry ?

Jezebelic behavior !!

Do I make sense here to anyone?

 

[drmeathead]

hey man i posted on your other thread but maybe i can say it better on this one. she has BPD. in laymans terms people with this disease had something happen to them in childhood that stunts their emotional growth at the point in time of the trauma. you are bascially dating a 6 or 7 year old with the hormones and body parts of a full grown woman. you have two choices. love her and deal. leave her and forget her totally. i have been there.

it was a very tough choice for me. but then i am what is called a co-dependant. it means i take on their struggles as my own and try to fix them not only for them but for me. most partners of BPDers are co-dependants. otherwise, the partner would have tossed the bpd partner to the curb.

there is notihng wrong with being co-dependant. you just need to realize it if you are and set and STICK to your personal boundries as to what is and isnt ok. you need to learn how to not get mad or confrontational with your bpder when they flip out or pull their ****. they love to test your boundries. often they will try to back you up just a tiny little to see if you love them. its a vicious emotionally emptying cycle.

if you stay i wish you the best but make sure what is there is worth it. make sure you are not in love with their bull**** persona that they created to trap oyu. make sure you love the person that is sick.

i tried and failed. i tried very very hard and couldnt do it. i felt like a faliure for awhile. i dont anymore. they push and push till you break then get mad once you eventually do break.

i say get out. esp if she hasnt gotten violent yet. but it is your choice. if you like to pour motor oil on your ice cream cause you think it tastes great that is your choice to make. keep in touch

 

[jophil28]

Yes, I like your comment about how they push and push -always some sh1t test/ mind game to push you past your limits of tolerance. Lots of drama or threats of infidelity(or hinting at it or doing it ). They seem to be experts at double standards and creating a swirling emotional "SOUP". I went from being a confident ,in control," take them or leave them" kind of guy to a clingy, upset,uncertain, dependent wuss who tolerated the imtolerable from her. SHe did NOT play like other women. Nothing that "worked" with other women, worked on her.(except abandonment -and then she went NUTS) She was emotionally shut down most of the time,cold and distant and reserved in the extreme, BUT she knew exactly what she wanted deepdown . IT seems that they want to 'PLAY" in a relationship ,not really BE in one.

I feel screwed over and exhausted.I do not feel OK-just ripped off.

 

[jophil28]

She pushed me so hard many times to the point that when we had minor bust-ups ,I initially tried to "talk it out" with her . That never worked because she used her fine language skills(teacher ) to duck and dodge the issue and turn it all back on me.. I now realize that resolution of conflict is the OPPOSITE of what they want . They run on drama !!
Eventually I just walked out on her three times and then she got REALLY upset because I "abandoned her'".. She is incapable of seeing her part in any of this - just like a little kid, "He made me do it -Mommy".

Here is an example of her stuff -
She had a breast enlargement after her third child. She claims that the boobs that she has now are TOO big and that she wanted a smaller size, but her husband at the time (and his doctor brother) talked to the surgeon when she was out cold and THEY ordered the bigger size.

Nothing that has ever happened to her seems to be of her own doing ?
Just like a kid !
Am I making sense here ? .

 

[drmeathead]

amen brother,

i went down that same road. maybe some of the bumps were different but the path was the same. i feel the same way right now. i have been done for 6 weeks or so. i feel i wasted a year of my life trying to help this girl. save her from the damage her ex did. the same ex she ran back to three weeks after we broke up.

it is funny to hear you mention the threats of cheating. i got that all the time. i got alot of the accusations. these bpders project. meaning they see something they dont like about themselves and treat you as though you have it. that way they can "deal" with their problem by yelling at you and fixing you. cause their cant handle something wrong with them due to the attachment issues.

i too put up with way too much ****. but dont fault urself. it is like one day u wake up and go holy hell how did i get in this deep what happened. they stress you so much you just give in to shut them up. you dont even realize that you gave up another piece of you. then once you do you have no idea how to to get out often cause by this time you have very little self esteem left.

trust me on the no contact man. it helps after about 5 or 6 days. it is tough at first but man stay strong and no contact. none. not even voicemail listening toos or anything like that. dont even pick up the phone to say dont call.

 

[penkitten]

Here is an example of her stuff -
She had a breast enlargement after her third child. She claims that the boobs that she has now are TOO big and that she wanted a smaller size, but her husband at the time (and his doctor brother) talked to the surgeon when she was out cold and THEY ordered the bigger size.

what a load of bs!!
if you want a breast enlargement or reduction, you have to go talk to the dr a few times and discuss and determine a size, you also determine how perky you want them, the shape you want them, and alot of that depends on your body frame and skin elasticity and if you have ever lost weight there or any sagging.
then you discuss and determine which type of procedure you want, do they cut a place on the underneath of the breast to fill em? do they cut the nipple and go in there and stitch the nipple back? do they cut a place under your underarm and go in thru there? do they cut a slit in your belly button and go up thru there?

these are all things she must have discussed with her doctor. most drs want to have this discussion without anyone else around. i think there is a small waiting period to mull it over also.then you sign the paperwork.

no surgeon is going to wait until you are on the table and let your husband and his brother tell him what to do. there is paperwork already signed and you could sue his butt off.

dude, shes a total liar on this one.