realisation that HB8s are harder to get than HB7s, tips please

[drift king]

as per my other thread:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=162498

i finally met up with this girl for a drink, and it was a real eye opener in terms of where i am game wise, date game wise etc and dealing with HB8s/model wanabes.

i did DLV myself a little by needing to confirm the date time today by saying i'd be 15mins late cos i need to find the place, then she tells me no later than 15mins and meet somewhere else, i was like i'll just leave earlier and keep it the original time and place. i just wasnt sure at the time if it was on.

anyway so i call her when im there, she tries to explain to me to meet her halfway i didnt have a clue where she was talking about so she just came to me. i jokingly said 'thank u for coming to me' she said 'you're welcome' although it may seem DLV.

anyway so then she sees me, i could tell straight off she wasn't that interested, she must have forgot how i looked like from when we 1st met like 6 weeks ago and i think in the past 2 weeks been building me up in her head the image of me as my responses managed to get her to come out to see me when it was pretty much dead in the water.

all this C+F,negs etc really works! but on HB8s it seems. i set her deadlines i told her she lost points with me for cancelling our meeting etc and that she only has 1 chance with me then its over. she responded favorably and accordingly.

as she chose where we were going for a drink, i was somewhat following her however i twisted it round that she took me out to save face.

if she doesn't respond favorably to u when u meet can u still turn it round?

its almost as if she took 1 look at me and thought 'nah..' cos her lack of talking and signs of disinterest kind of showed me this. on the phone prior she was fine,excited.

i been in this situation before when i met facebook girls but that was different this 1 i've met before in person.

but she looked completely different this time.. she was all dressed up heels, dress etc, i knew she was going out after but i made a joke that she got all dressed up for me.. she rejected that claim saying that she was going out after. in that kind of context how do u counter respond?

 

[drift king]

thats pretty much her tone, she was dismissive with any jokes i made about her trying to prove herself to me, i tried to be slick and go into my deep thought provoking i understand u crap i say on dates which 9/10 times works but she seemed to have a bit of a pedastel situation going cos she has modelling work, i would neg her for it calling it promotional work.. i should have negged more cos i was really wary of her behaviour cos it looked like at any moment she'd hit me if i negged too hard.

so i was more careful with my words than normal. anyway the flow of the conversation was bit boring at times, bit of silence she asked me a few things like what im doing etc but i'd keep going into deeper stuff tryna make her think i deeply understood her by cold reading.

she did some major things which put me off towards the end of the date, but she didn't consider it a date. am i just being fooled?

towards the end she was getting lots of phone calls from her annoying friend who wanted to talk about boy problems but i wonder whether she told her to come to save her from me, and she was trying to be smart by telling me that her friend wants to come here and talk girl talk.

i took this as a sign of major disrespect but i didnt expect them to arrive so soon as i thought i had a few more mins with her, they pop up, 1 guy was cool i talked to him a bit. should i have just walked out of there as soon as they arrived?

 

[drift king]

i still felt my frame wasn't right and i was supplicating her and not prizing myself, my prob is i dont know what to say to demonstrate this behaviour.. negging her only goes so far. maybe using lines like 'we could only be friends.. you're too temperamental for me'

if she agrees then its pretty much over. anyway he inviting her friend is major disrespectful and maybe also shows her lack of interest.

how do u break down these sorts of model girls who think they're awesome and used to guys kissing their a$$, they still test u.. i.e. she'd go to the bathroom make phonecall (maybe telling her friend to save her) i brought it up saying she should said she was having such a good time with me that she'll speak to her later about the girl probs.. but she goes 'no im not going to do that! shes my best friend here..' what should i have said or did?

walked out of there seems logical.. but when i asked that her friend appeared about 2mins after.. should i just have left cos obviously shes disrespecting me but cos her friend arrived with some guy i felt i had to talk to them for a few mins then split. which i did.

when i turned to her i was like 'ok well when u going to that club?' she goes 'in about 30 mins' she says 'when u going to see that movie?' i go 'right now.. im sorry but the movie is more important than u..' in a joking way.. she dismissed this again.. this is what im talking about.. dismissive girls who dismiss your negs or c0ckiness.

how can i improve next time i go on a date with a HB8?

my HB7 im seeing/banging right now is insecure she's very different from the hotter girls who think they're perfect so it's hard for me to guage the levels.

i always knew negs were better on hotter girls. but i feel i failed in terms of progressing or demonstrating im the prize. i did that in text but not as much in person.

i negged her for taking calls on our date. she goes 'come on.. shes my best friend im not going to not take her call if its something important' i should have said 'it doesn't matter when you're with me im the center of attention'

are these girls just testing u when they a)take phone calls on dates and b)invite people to your date, or are they just plain not interested and you've been friend-zoned?

i feel this girl has been tryna test me from the start and i did ok prior to meeting.

i feel that i should not call her on principle that she disrespected me and im not letting that slide. would a girl like that really contact me indirectly cos she probably never had a guy in her life not call her back after a date?

or am i thinking thats just not gona happen, shes european so relatively independent but i feel that if i call her after what she did thats a major weakness in me cos she could either a)not respond, so she has the power and knows i was still interested or b)just turn me down.

im unlucky cos i dont have enough time before she leaves to go travelling next week to make it seem as if i didnt contact her again. normally you'd wait a few days, in a few days shes gone.

is this time duration pressure basically going to mean i have no chance of banging her at all?

not only cos of her supposed lack of interest, but cos if she expects me to call im not going to.

 

[bukowski_merit]

i did DLV myself a little by needing to confirm the date time today by saying i'd be 15mins late cos i need to find the place, then she tells me no later than 15mins and meet somewhere else, i was like i'll just leave earlier and keep it the original time and place.

biggest problem i see - is not you saying you were going to be 15 mins late... but you changing back to the original time to please her.... if she told me "no later than 15 minutes" - i'd show up 20 minutes late and say "i wasn't expecting you to still be here" with a big @ss smile...

anyway so i call her when im there, she tries to explain to me to meet her halfway i didnt have a clue where she was talking about so she just came to me. i jokingly said 'thank u for coming to me' she said 'you're welcome' although it may seem DLV.

What's DLV about this? im not getting where the problem or importance of this comes from. High value does not mean you can always figure out where the fvck you are! ha

anyway so then she sees me, i could tell straight off she wasn't that interested, she must have forgot how i looked like from when we 1st met like 6 weeks ago and i think in the past 2 weeks been building me up in her head the image of me as my responses managed to get her to come out to see me when it was pretty much dead in the water.

the number of guys who disqualify themselves because a woman acts like this when they first get on a date is likely high... but it's not a HUGE deal if she's not that interested.... it's a huge deal if she's still acting the same way at the end of the date... this is quite normal unless the girls is of super high attraction to you already...

all this C+F,negs etc really works! but on HB8s it seems. i set her deadlines i told her she lost points with me for cancelling our meeting etc and that she only has 1 chance with me then its over. she responded favorably and accordingly.

i really dislike telling a woman she only gets one chance with you... that comes off as see-through for most guys (regardless of how she responds).... but a lot of guys get by with that attitude - so more power to you...

if she doesn't respond favorably to u when u meet can u still turn it round?

of course...
and i wouldn't expect girls to react too favorably at first if you're meeting them off facebook... especially if they aren't that talkative in real life.

its almost as if she took 1 look at me and thought 'nah..' cos her lack of talking and signs of disinterest kind of showed me this. on the phone prior she was fine,excited.

dont get too obsessed with reading body language or looking for IOIs.... they're fine to look for... but i've had women who acted completely cold and didn't give me anything, who i was able to open up and realize they were just putting up a shield and trying to be me to run through it...

but she looked completely different this time.. she was all dressed up heels, dress etc, i knew she was going out after but i made a joke that she got all dressed up for me.. she rejected that claim saying that she was going out after. in that kind of context how do u counter respond?

You actually did good with that one. That's exactly what you want to say. Same thing if you go over her house for the first time and it's spotless "wow, you cleaned up just for me?".... in both cases - it's unlikely that she did... but it'll weigh on her psychologically and in a way - convince her she did... i forget what the technical term is for this... but it's used to be able to actually tell her what to do later on in your developement together...

 

[drift king]

biggest problem i see - is not you saying you were going to be 15 mins late... but you changing back to the original time to please her.... if she told me "no later than 15 minutes" - i'd show up 20 minutes late and say "i wasn't expecting you to still be here" with a big @ss smile...



What's DLV about this? im not getting where the problem or importance of this comes from. High value does not mean you can always figure out where the fvck you are! ha



the number of guys who disqualify themselves because a woman acts like this when they first get on a date is likely high... but it's not a HUGE deal if she's not that interested.... it's a huge deal if she's still acting the same way at the end of the date... this is quite normal unless the girls is of super high attraction to you already...




i really dislike telling a woman she only gets one chance with you... that comes off as see-through for most guys (regardless of how she responds).... but a lot of guys get by with that attitude - so more power to you...



of course...
and i wouldn't expect girls to react too favorably at first if you're meeting them off facebook... especially if they aren't that talkative in real life.



dont get too obsessed with reading body language or looking for IOIs.... they're fine to look for... but i've had women who acted completely cold and didn't give me anything, who i was able to open up and realize they were just putting up a shield and trying to be me to run through it...



You actually did good with that one. That's exactly what you want to say. Same thing if you go over her house for the first time and it's spotless "wow, you cleaned up just for me?".... in both cases - it's unlikely that she did... but it'll weigh on her psychologically and in a way - convince her she did... i forget what the technical term is for this... but it's used to be able to actually tell her what to do later on in your developement together...

thanks your advice is really good, however shes not a facebook girl shes a girl i met on campus about 6 weeks ago then we had exams so weren't able to set up a date.

but her disinterest in the beginning when we met shouldnt have been there its like she made up her mind already, what about the fact she did disrespectful things like inviting her friends onto our 'date' at the end?

ok she didnt think it was a date just a drink, so she feels its warranted. i tried to lay down the law saying that when you're out with me its not cool to take calls/invite friends.. but i worded it in a way where she shoulda said 'im having such a great time with this guy lets talk about your problems later'

i feel im starting to get it and calling them out on their bullsh1t but still if at the end of the date she's invited her friends to join shows shes not interested and she wanted her friends to save her?

i guess i did the right thing, stayed 10mins then left.

 

[bukowski_merit]

1. You take too much stuff as disrespect. You're calling very common sh!t test women do to try to gain control of their interaction with men disrespect. You need to learn to emotionally disconnect yourself from women until you feel safe connecting with them.

but her disinterest in the beginning when we met shouldnt have been there its like she made up her mind already, what about the fact she did disrespectful things like inviting her friends onto our 'date' at the end?

Im trying to explain that its not uncommon for a girl to be distant on first "dates"... You need to pull her out of that state asap... Negging and C+F work on a small scale... And getting into deep (i understand you) conversations can work as well... But there needs to be a flow to it... Negging/C+F should IMO only be used to start an interaction, and to fight back against a b!tchy attitude. Sometimes it doesnt need to be used at all!

Deeper conversations work, but i believe they should be used later in the interaction....

Her inviting her friend - has so many possible reasons it could happen that its hard to go into. however, it does indicate that at that point and time she was either a) testing you to see how you would react. or b) not getting enough stimulation out of her interaction with you.

i tried to lay down the law saying that when you're out with me its not cool to take calls/invite friends.. but i worded it in a way where she shoulda said 'im having such a great time with this guy lets talk about your problems later'

dont try. if you're going to be the lay down the law type - you lay it down and if she breaks it - you smile. and when her friend gets there - excuse yourself and find a new plate to spin at that very moment.

i feel im starting to get it and calling them out on their bullsh1t but still if at the end of the date she's invited her friends to join shows shes not interested and she wanted her friends to save her?

Who knows why she invited her friend? theres tons of reasons....
this doesnt mean her interest is non-existent at that point - just not high enough to go home with you!

 

[drift king]

1. You take too much stuff as disrespect. You're calling very common sh!t test women do to try to gain control of their interaction with men disrespect. You need to learn to emotionally disconnect yourself from women until you feel safe connecting with them.




Im trying to explain that its not uncommon for a girl to be distant on first "dates"... You need to pull her out of that state asap... Negging and C+F work on a small scale... And getting into deep (i understand you) conversations can work as well... But there needs to be a flow to it... Negging/C+F should IMO only be used to start an interaction, and to fight back against a b!tchy attitude. Sometimes it doesnt need to be used at all!

Deeper conversations work, but i believe they should be used later in the interaction....

Her inviting her friend - has so many possible reasons it could happen that its hard to go into. however, it does indicate that at that point and time she was either a) testing you to see how you would react. or b) not getting enough stimulation out of her interaction with you.



dont try. if you're going to be the lay down the law type - you lay it down and if she breaks it - you smile. and when her friend gets there - excuse yourself and find a new plate to spin at that very moment.



Who knows why she invited her friend? theres tons of reasons....
this doesnt mean her interest is non-existent at that point - just not high enough to go home with you!

ahh this makes sense, someone else on my other thread pointed out that despite me liking to think her friend coming was random it may have been pre-planned in order to save her from being with me. she runs off to the bathroom goes away for a long while, is on the phone i neg her saying 'oh so u needed to check your make up was still ok' but she could have called her friend to save her.

as the 2 friends both arrived should i have just upped and left?

i think that shows a more powerful signal to her that what she did wasn't cool, rather than try to be polite talking to her friends to show im a cool social guy. my date would have assumed i was offended if i left so swiftly but maybe that's what you want to portray that what she did isn't cool, it's hard to tell, i thought what i did chatting for 10mins was the right thing, but now im thinking i shoulda upped and left.

she just seemed disinterested the whole date as if she felt she had to be there rather than wanting to be there.. i made her laugh a few times i knew she thought 'haha i cant believe he just said that!' but she'd be dismissive to a lot of my comments, like i'd say crap like 'yeah when i play golf u can be my cheerleader/caddy' she's like 'yeah yeah whatever' that was her tone throughout.. dismissive and full of herself, i wouldnt let her get away with it but i didn't really have any counterresponse. you could tell she's been spoilt by attention since she's been in this country, back home she probably wouldn't get as much modelling work so has let it go to her head.

ok i tried my best opening her up from that disinterested state at the beginning but i think it came as such a shock to me that she was like that cos she was much nicer when i met her. i negged her for cancelling the 1st time and told her that she only had 1 chance with me, and she obeyed unsurprisingly in fear of losing me.

the worst part which has happened to me before is when we talk about the interaction of when we met for the first time.. this is a bad subject to get onto cos everytime the girl will make out that she didn't think i was picking her up or i was disturbing her.. she was like 'oh my god when i met u i was trying to buy this blah blah and u were talking to me and it was like what the hell..' how do u respond to something like this? cos shes basically trying to devalue you.. i tried to be charming by saying 'well i didn't expect to see such a beauty that i had to talk to u'

i maybe made a mistake talking about the process of how with a girl like her she has lots of guy friends (thats a warning sign) and that most guys she meets will be put into a friendzone cos they aren't coming direct to her.. she's like 'so what? i dont care..' she just gives me the attitude of someone who's too spoilt by attention here and gets what she wants all the time.

when i told her when i date someone i dont do it for looks i have a checklist of ticks and crosses to see how they behave. she was like 'that's awful! i cant believe you do that!' in a that's wrong kind of way, i maybe made the mistake of defending myself? i wasnt sure if it was qualifying myself by explaining why i do it.

that's when i went on to talk about girls being on time, taking calls on dates, inviting friends over etc.. i then went onto say all girls i go out with are hot i filter them out by personality and behaviour. i dont know if it came across as boasting.

also when the convo went dry i asked her to describe herself in 3 words.. she couldn't she said she didn't know herself well enough.. then she flipped it on me and asked me, how should i have responded? cos i gave 3 words but i felt maybe that was qualifying myself

 

[drift_king]

are there any tips anyone has on how to deal with HB8s they seem or appear to be more self confident and less insecure.. they aren't open to you as much and start off thinking they're above you. how do you demonstrate you are higher value than her on a date?

u can't really social proof if you dont have other girls there at the time to come over and kiss u and say hi.

 

[bukowski_merit]

You seem like your in your own head... putting way too much thought into all this... and doing "this" here and "that" there... and being "the cool guy"... etc... relax... whatever vibe you're giving off - can greatly influence the vibe she gives back... you give a... she gives a... you treat her like you're above her... and she'll do it back.... you put way too many of your bullets into the NEG/C+F gun! Almost every quote i see from you to this girl is a Neg, ****y and/or funny...

ahh this makes sense, someone else on my other thread pointed out that despite me liking to think her friend coming was random it may have been pre-planned in order to save her from being with me. she runs off to the bathroom goes away for a long while, is on the phone i neg her saying 'oh so u needed to check your make up was still ok' but she could have called her friend to save her.

I can kind of see - that perhaps - your negs and ego were just annoying her...

as the 2 friends both arrived should i have just upped and left?

As i stated - i would have got up and tried to find someone else to talk to at the place you were at. But getting up and leaving is the next best thing... Just like "ok, i got to get going... blah blah" don't be mad, don't act frsutrated... just it didn't happen with this girl... accept it and move on to the next...

she just seemed disinterested the whole date as if she felt she had to be there rather than wanting to be there.. i made her laugh a few times i knew she thought 'haha i cant believe he just said that!' but she'd be dismissive to a lot of my comments, like i'd say crap like 'yeah when i play golf u can be my cheerleader/caddy' she's like 'yeah yeah whatever'

that's because you're doing something that either makes you come off as a) annoyingly ****y or b) forced... or both... if you're getting that response - why keep doing it?

i negged her for cancelling the 1st time and told her that she only had 1 chance with me, and she obeyed unsurprisingly in fear of losing me.

Do you really believe this girl feared losing you? I don't agree with telling a girl things like "you only have one shot with me". Don't tell a girl this - goddamitt! Too many guys read all this stuff and start telling the girls how they operate... don't tell - just operate that way... you're warning her to be good or else.... as if you don't care.... but guess what? you've made tons of post about this girl... so obviously you do care... and i'd bet money that she could pick up on this... THE ONE WHO CARES THE MOST - IS THE SUPPLICANT ONE IN ANY FORM OF RELATIONSHIP... YOU through all of this - have shown that you care the most.

PS: instead of flatly telling a girl "you only have one chance" - demonstrate is through A CASUAL STORY... I recently was messing with this girl in the car in a restaurant parking lot and she kept stopping me when i tried to escalate past kissing... instead of saying something like "you know if you don't do more with me in the car - im going to let you go"... i stop and we go in and eat... for the next 20 minutes i chain stories together to lead up to a story about a girl in my past who "was the absolute best lover i ever had" because she "had no inhabitions and if we were in the moment - we'd even take it to the backseat of the car"... and i go into these vivd descriptions of how much i enjoyed it and how close it brought it..... ..... well .... she practically made me have $ex with her once we got back to the car in the parking lot.... it wasn't even all the way dark yet either...

you can do similar by telling a stories about anything... and it's far better than saying "this is what i expect" etc....

the worst part which has happened to me before is when we talk about the interaction of when we met for the first time.. this is a bad subject to get onto cos everytime the girl will make out that she didn't think i was picking her up or i was disturbing her.. she was like 'oh my god when i met u i was trying to buy this blah blah and u were talking to me and it was like what the hell..' how do u respond to something like this? cos shes basically trying to devalue you.. i tried to be charming by saying 'well i didn't expect to see such a beauty that i had to talk to u'

this is fine to do once you're in a relationship... and she'll remember it with more of a positive side... but you defintely should stop doing this with girls you just meant...

when i told her when i date someone i dont do it for looks i have a checklist of ticks and crosses to see how they behave. she was like 'that's awful! i cant believe you do that!' in a that's wrong kind of way, i maybe made the mistake of defending myself? i wasnt sure if it was qualifying myself by explaining why i do it.

man... you made yourself look very shallow.... you have a checklist??? unless you said that in a joking manor to make her laugh - i have no idea why you're confessing something so strange... women want to believe that you and her ended up together because it was in the cosmo's... because it was FATE... not because she made it past your checklist... and again... YOU'RE TELLING HER THINGS YOU SHOULD BE EXPLAINING THROUGH STORIES... it sounds like you're telling her directly what articles on this stie and others tell YOU PERSONALLY to do... she does not really need to know you have a checklist... reward the things you like about her... punish the things you don't like about her... she'll be able to see your checklist in action that way... you basically just told her "i analyze the women in my life in an obsessive way".

that's when i went on to talk about girls being on time, taking calls on dates, inviting friends over etc.. i then went onto say all girls i go out with are hot i filter them out by personality and behaviour. i dont know if it came across as boasting.

"filter them out" is a very strong term which sounds negative.... you can say that all girl you date are hot... but "I look for something else besides that. anyone can have good looks and be hot if they take good enough care of themselves. but i look for a connection... i look for a hand i like holding... i look for someone who has that look in her eyes... the one you can just stare at and not talk... and you'll both know what's on each others mind..." pause pause "too many girls are hollow inside... i like life inside... fun..." etc. etc... while doing all this keep your eyes in hers and you should pull her in... this is FAR superior to telling them things like "i have a checklist" or i "filter out" women....

you are essentially saying the same thing... but with going into rich descriiptions of what you look for - full of emotional wording - you make your point much better... and she won't view you as someone who's arrogant - she'll view you as a man who knows what he wants and doesn't just enjoy the $exual side of things...