OK, im doing SOMETHING wrong, can I get help this time plz

[D4H]

Ok im about to reach my boiling point because im obviously doing SOMETHING wrong here. I need advice... like people to ask me detailed questions about what i do.. and compare it to what they do or something. Let me count how many numbers ive gotten in the past week. Ok, i got 12. Out of these 12, no dates. When i meet the girls, they all seem interested, then they flake. Ill give a couple scenarios here. This one girl that i met at a party, her and I got along really good, flirted, we were both kinda drunk.. then she gives me her number. I call her, she never calls back. I next her.. then just say F it and call again, she seems cool and says some reason why she didnt call. Never calls back. Nexted again. This other girl i met cuz she worked at a bar, her and I get along really good anda have good conversation. I try calling but the line is busy, then next time i call no answer. I just leave a msg which never got returned. After about 7 days, i try again because i remember that this girl has 2 jobs and is going to school so she probably doesnt have much time to herself. When i call, everything goes good. We talk, she gives reason why she didnt call but she got my msg. We set up a date for when we both are on winter break... she says she wants to hang out, and when asked about a boyfriend she says no they broke up. When I meet a girl to get her number, the situation is... i havent talked to her very long at all... so when i go to make the first phone call, wont she feel like im a stranger and say no to me asking for a date? Here goes an example of one of my more recent girls i talked to on the phone after getting the number.
D4H: Hey wassup its D4H
HB: OH HEY! wassup how was your thanksgiving!
D4H: It was good, and yours?
HB: yeah u know, the usual.. eat alot and drink wine.
*small talk occurs*
D4H: Yeah so how about when we get back to school we hang out or something? We can go see a movie.
HB: <giggles> well, i did tell u that im sorta talking to someone right now didnt i...
D4H: you said you broke up with your bf...
HB: yeah, i did, im still sorta talking to someone however.
D4H: I dont see any marriage rings, and you guys dont officially go out do you
HB: <giggles> this is true.
D4H: (Trying to just end the convo so im not on the phone that long) Well ill give you a call later and see if we can set something up to hang out

Also, over thanksgiving break i was at the super market with my mom and while i was walking around by myself, i seen this HB7 who i approach. I start talking to her, ask her name, how old she is, tell her that im in colllege... blah blah blah.. and when i ask for the phone number she says she has gotten in trouble for giving out her # while working before. She said she was gonna go ask her boss if she could get a break so she could talk to me... so she walks over to some young guy who looks about 22 or so.. and is talking to him. DUring their convo he continues looking over at me. I just leave for a bit and then when i come back i say to him "Yo wassup playa, wheres slim at?" he goes "Why?" i say "cuz i was tryin to get her number, did she not wanna holla at me or something?"... and he says "well you sort of intimidated her". I say "why cuz im a big tall black guy? lol" and he says "i dunno, i guess just how u approached her she was scared of you". So my question is... if im dressing like a "thug" i guess u would call it (i wear caps, jersies, chains, etc)... and i approach a girl thats white... am i scaring her off? I mean, when i talk, i smile and everything seems cool.. but i guess i may come across as intimidating cuz of my size/race/clothes.

If you dont want to give advice just give me the break down of the last girl you went out with.
- Where you met her
- First thing you said to her
- Description of convo/chemistry
- How you closed for the number
- What the first convo was like
- How you set up the date

Id like advice on how to try getting the next HB i see... some things to try based on what works for you. If not, im gonna just keep bumping the thread, im kinda frustrated at this point.

 

[OpenMind]

next time just wait for her to come and find you when she goes on break because you came across as desparate or forceful by going to her manager. you did good by asking her for the digits but you didnt play it cool by giving her the chance to give them to ya.. next time play it cool and lay back, be able to accept "no" for an answer, and find some other woman. if you dont get what ya want dont sweat it and question your style/clothing/whatever... just move on the next 10,000 woman who would be happy to give you their number... good luck!

 

[Chewy Bagel]

- Where you met her

She came in to make an auto insurance payment at my work.

- First thing you said to her

Hi, How may I help you.

- Description of convo/chemistry

She asked me a bunch of questions about her policy, told me how she just got divorced, told me what kind of work she did, I talked about how handwriting reveals your personality. We talked for way longer than I talk to other clients and she appeared to want to be there. Then, she left smiling and looking over her shoulder.

- How you closed for the number

She called me after she left my office from her home. She said, "do you date older women?" I stopped her right there and said, "yes, what are you doing tonight?"

- What the first convo was like

About herself and family and myself and my family. We also talked about high school and college. Plus other shyte.

- How you set up the date

I told her where to meet me that night and she came out.


I noticed you like ask out girls while they're working (the girl at the bar and the grocery store chick). Girls are supposed to be nice to everyone when they're working, so it's not necessarily the best place to guage interest level. However you did it right by getting the number and calling them - good job.

Look bro, here's the deal. You're doing everything right, or so it seems. You're approaching, asking for the number and calling. That's how it's done.

One thing you might want to consider - if you're a thugged out looking black guy, your mentality could be different than your appearance. While on the inside you could feel like the executive of a fortune 500 company, a girl could see you as a dude who does drive-bys on the weekends. Clothes can make the man (if you've never met the chick )

Keep up the good work.

CB

 

[Big Pappy]

OKay! Now that is an excellent way for us to see what you are doing wrong.

Mind you, everybody's a bit different, and experience can lead us to different paths.

First, not everybody you meet who is working is smiling at you because they have a high interest level. They smile because they are paid to do so. Sure, some will smile and flirt because they dig you, but it will take you some experience to be able to tell the difference.

I applaud you on your drive and initiative. Good work! No problem with your courage.

D4H: Yeah so how about when we get back to school we hang out or something? We can go see a movie.

Women are constantly looking for something fun. Unless it's a really excellent flick, the movie that you would want to see is not likely going to be the movie they want to see. After you've got them hooked, it's no big deal, but initially it can be an obstacle.

Be Mr DH4, man of action. The DJ does not say words like "kinda" (kind of) or "sorta" (sort of). He is precise.
You: Hey, I scored two tickets to Leno's comedy show this Thursday. Want to come with me?
She: Jay Leno?
You: No. Chili Ray Leno. Of course, Jay Leno....etc.
She: What time will it be? I was supposed to do blah, blah,
You: I'll pick you up at 7:30.
She: Um, okay, I guess.
You: Chill, lady. We're going to laugh our a**es off. You know it's going to be fun. See you then. Bye.
She: Okay. Bye.



Your lack of clarity with the date means that you are making the night about the girl instead of about the activity. Remember, this is something that you are going to do whether she says yes or no. You have 11 other girls to choose from.

White girls. Most white chicks are pretty open minded to dating the brothers. Us white guys would prefer you didn't because it makes our job that much harder, but so be it. Some white chicks simply have no idea how to deal with an approach from you because they don't wish to reject you on your race, although that might be what they're doing. I can't speak for them; that's just my thoughts on the matter.

The last chick I went out with :


Where you met her - George's Irish Pub Mobile, AL

First thing you said to her - "Better than Average" (in response to her question - "How ya doing" -


Description of convo/chemistry - She was really easy to talk to, animated, a real go getter. Laughed a little too hard at my banter.
How you closed for the number - I think I'm going to need you later. Give me your number.

What the first convo was like -


She: "Better than average? That's pretty good."
Me: Well, now that I think about it, I guess it depends on the data set. (assessing her intellect)
She: What do you mean? (holding in a giggle)
Me: Well, it's not terribly hard to be above average in this city. How many smart customers have you run into today?
She: God, you are so right! I swear some of these people just can't read. I mean, all the beer we sell is listed right there, blah, blah, etc.

So, I do a negative hit, some C&F, with the usual contrarian nature and she gets off work a little later and we drink CarBombs until we're both just being silly.



How you set up the date - I call her up and say :
I'm picking you up at 9:30 tomorrow night. Wear Jeans.
She: what? Where are we going?
Me: We're going to see the Friday Night Gigolos, that band I was telling you about.
She: I thought you hated those smoke filled bars.
Me: Man! I've got another call. See you at 9:30.
She: Okay. Bye.
Me: Bye.



Hope that helps.

FYI - She eventually flaked on me once, on the second date, but made it up to me later on. Found out she had a kid, who got sick. I told her if she had gotten a sitter and dated me while her kid was sick, I would have dropped off as soon as I found out.

We "hook up" every now and then in a drinking buddy with benfits relationship.

 

[D4H]

ok, im surprised that ive gotten 3 responses, and happy about it. I'm also looking for details as in.. when u first meet them, are u being serious, are u trying to be a funny guy, charismatic, charming? The chick that i said id be calling back later.. should i just call her up and say "Hey, im coming up to your room right now to hang out. Be ready." ?

 

[D4H]

I seem to be doing everything right, all up until its time to get them to go out. Im trying to figure out if its the way i go about getting the second date, am i not coming across as a nice enough guy, not sparking their interest enough... etc

 

[D4H]

Oh yeah. I dont dress really ghetto or anything.. just modern day 'urban'. The college i go to has mostly white girls, but i like all women anyway Also, the girl i met at the bar was not really working, she was reading a psych book studying, which was how i started up a convo.

 

[Big Pappy]

This is the serious limitation of the forum. I'm concerned that you need so much direction. The DJ bible is your fishing lesson. It's time to bait your own hook.

Being funny, charming, charismatic - all these characteristics are present in Don Juan. Whether you are serious, funny, affable, hilarious, goofy -- whatever -- will depend upon all manner of things.

Such as: What is she doing? (Studying at work? Not going to do well - she wouldn't be studying at work if she weren't behind in school. )

What is she wearing? ( If she's wearing sneakers and jeans, that requires something different than if she's wearing camoflauge pants and a ratty t-shirt or wearing a dress/skirt.

How pretty is she?

What does her current mood seem to be?

What is your current mood?

Plus a slew of other factors.

 

[D4H]

How did i go from asking excellent questions to crossing the limitation of the forum. I thought it was a valid question seeing how some people say you shouldnt be smiling for no reason.. or come across too nice. Bump.

 

[Knicknack]

getting the first date is probably the hardest thing, next to getting a 2nd date. if you can get a 2nd date you are probably doing something right.

when i first started this DJ thing i became extremely frustrated when i number closed a chick, only to have her flake on the phone. after reading this site and a few of the double your dating newsletters, i began to understand a little more about a woman's mind.

before you ever ask for a number, she should be giving certain signals that allow you to guage her interest level. advanced DJs know when a chick is not interested and they know to move on. DJs do not fear rejection, but they can certainly avoid it if they use their brains.

when i walk up to a chick she will either lightly smile, smile big, not smile at all, or be downright pissed at me approaching her. the last one is the rarest, but it happens. if a girl is mad at me approaching her, she probably heard something bad about me, or just broke up with her BF, or just went through something terrible in her life. i could care less. i just move on. like i said, that's rare.

now when they are willing to talk, which is 90% of the time, i run my C+F and see how she responds. i start by asking her name AND DO NOT OFFER MY NAME. this is the first test i give her. if she asks my name i can put one tally in the high IL category. most of the time they will ask my name immediately after i get theirs, or never ask at all. last night i used this on a chick who was acting a bit cold to me at first. after we talked awhile she warmed up and eventually asked my name. i probably took the kidding around with her stuff a bit far, but i could care less. she was 24 and i'm 21. when she asked how old i was i told her 15, and she should stop going after such young guys. when she continued to pressure for my age i told her i was 18 and still in high school. she got frustrated and said if i don't show her my ID, she's leaving. i refused to supplicate, and she did in fact bail. i was surprised, but good riddance to her.

i'll begin the conversation by asking the usual stupid questions about where she goes to school and what not. throughout the conversation i'll gently tap her on the shoulder, or on her lower back. if the conversation is going really well, i'll wrap my entire arm around her waist or neck. if she allows this type of touching, you are damn sure to get a number close and a date if you play it right.

they want to think they just found a "catch." since you've only just met her, the slightest mistake or AFC attitude will send red flags off in her head. she'll put you in the "not dating material" category faster than you can say AFC. so what you need to do is seperate yourself from the rest of the chumps that call her.

some girls give out their number all the time, so they don't even pick up the cell phone when there is no phone book entry associated with the number. they will wait for a voicemail and decide later if they want to talk to you.

so instead of leaving some lame message like, "hey this is knicknack, it was good talkin to you the other night, call me back at 777-777-7777," i'll leave a message like, "hey this is that hot guy who was dancing like justin timberlake that you were hittin on at the bar. call me at 777-777-7777. and the 2 day rule does not apply to me."

after i leave that message, there is absolutely no excuse to call her back. if she didn't get my number on her caller ID, she sure as hell has it in her voicemail. i often delete her number at the point. i don't want any confusion or desperate dials in the future. you know she has at least moderate interest level when she calls back.

now if she picks up when you first call you need to give her a similar c+f statement, but now it will be live. you gotta sound sure of yourself and ready to play along with your jokes. after i talk with her for a couple of mins about stupid everyday stuff, it's time to get the convo over with and get a date lined up. usually i already talked to her about where she works, so i have a good idea about how her schedule is lined up. if not, i will simply ask her what her schedule is lookin like this week. when i know what nights she has off, i DO NOT ask her for a date. i ASSUME THE SALE and say something like, "so do you want to go out friday or saturday night?" or, "do you want to go to Joe Bar or Mary Bar?"

do not tell her you had a good time talkin with her when you first met. don't compliment her. if anything i would say something like, "you didn't scare me too bad the other night, so i might hang out with you this friday if you can continue to behave yourself."

don't ever ask her for anything. tell her what restaurant you are going to, or give her a choice between 2. if you want to smoke screen her and make her think the date idea is her idea, you can say something like, "have you ever been to Joe Bar?" if she says no, then you tell her how tight it is and ask her if she wants to meet there at 7 or 8 o'clock. if she says yes, you now have something in common and you should talk about the establishment a bit and then ask her if she wants to meet there at 7 or 8 on friday.

last wednesday i number closed a girl in a club. i left her a funny voicemail on saturday, and got a call back from her about 5 hours later. i asked her what kinda trouble she was gettin into that night, and she said she has to work, so she is not going out that night. i said i was busy all week, but "we'll do something next friday or saturday." she was very receptive and i'm 80% sure i'll wind up with a date with her when i call her later this week.

this other girl who i have never dated, but just hang out with, called me last friday night. she told me she was going to a party and asked if i would come. we talked a bit more, and when i was done talkin with her, i said, "well i might come by there later." she said, "you might???" i just said, "yeah, if you're lucky. cya"

basically it's exactly what the DJ Bible preaches. YOU CANNOT SEEK A WOMAN'S APPROVAL. do you know how often i care what a woman thinks of me? do you know how much i value her opinion of me? EXACTLY ZERO. i'm a white guy. i'll go up to a prissy little white girl and say, "what up, sista," just like a brotha would. i could care fvckin less. i bet no one has ever done that to her before. i just seperated myself. most of the time they will laugh and i'll continue the joke. sometimes when they ask me my name i'll tell them something completely ridiculous like Carlito or Tyrese.

just say what you want and do what you want. this is your world.

 

[Stag]

Intimidation, body language, etc.

Ok, dude. First of all if they told you that u come off as intimidating, agressive, etc., its probably true. Doesn't mean that what u r like, but maybe that's what your approach is like. I had the same problem. I thought the more direct and agressive the better. But its simply not true.
What you wanna do is grab an attitude of "hey i think you'll findme attractive and will enjoy pursuingme, while I play hard to get", rather than "oh, i will try hard to make this girl attracted to me". Let women chase you.
Ur bodylanguage should be very relaxed, keep your body still and little gestures, keep u r hands below the waist, especially if u r big and tall. Ur voicetone should be soft, but deep. Don't scare them off with a loud penetrating voice. Go in easy.
When u approach just take it slow and easy, laid back. Say hi, andlet her warm up to u first and she will start chasing you andwill do the work for you. Let THEM DO THE WORK FOR YOU.For that to happen u gotta hold back and let them chase. Dontpush, dont be too direct, arrogant or agressive about anything. It ruins your game. In the beginning just say HI.pause, pasue see what her response is like, then HOW R YA..pause,pause, wait for reponse. Then start a simple conversation. Not too many questions etc. Whatever u say, say it so that it means "i think u ll find me attractive, and will enjoy chasingme while i play hard to get". thats it.
Plus ur phone game is weak. Just call them and say, hey I wanted to touch base with you, im gonna be hangingout at starbucks/bar,etc on Thurs, I think you should come and keep me company. Cool, meet meat whatever time, ok see ya, bye.

 

[MackJr]

some whites will think you're intimidating no matter what you do. just write them off.

 

[Knicknack]

i don't like the "i'm going to be hanging out here" date approach. if someone told me they were going to be "hanging out" at a restaurant or coffee shop i'd think they were a loser. wtf are you doing asking young women for coffee anyway? women want to have fun. i'd invite her to a bar/club or concert or comedy club or something fun.

this works wonders: "lets hang out this weekend. should we meet for dinner at 7 or 8?"

 

[Stag]

Whatever dude, what i do works fine for me. I don't need to bribe them with something fun and interesting, im enuff of that. I think you can do whatever pitch u like as long as its not wishy-washy - as in "oh do u think u r free on sat, cause u know i have these tix to see some idiot standup comic, i dont know if its a good idea, but do u want to come with me?"
Just tell her u will be somewhere and she should come. She will be there because she's attracted to you and not because u offered something fun. Get it.

 

[D4H]

ok when i called, she didnt pick up, but then called back like 10minutes later. I then answered the phone as though I was abu from the simpsons to just mess with her and get her laughing. I then told her who i was and she laughed and said she just got kind confused for a second there. I then asked her what days she was working this week and she said everyday this week but she gets off at around 8. I then said "ok so do you wanna go out during the week or the weekend" and she responded saying "normally the weekends are better for me, but this week ive got a sorority formal that i have to go to.". I then said "well maybe if you dont scare me too much ill let you take me out saturday, and she giggled saying she's going to be busy saturday as well and that she was sorry. She then said she couldnt really talk right now cuz she had to hurry back home, get changed so she can go out with her sorority. I told her I might give her a call back later on so we can work something out. She said alright and then we both hung up.

 

[D4H]

So basically, she told me this week is a really busy week for her.. and she wont even have time saturday. Dont know if she's flaking, but should i just next? Or maybe she's being honest.

Also... the whole thing of letting the women pursue you, thats pretty contradictory to other advice ive seen. Isnt that also contradictory to the DJ bible? Being ****y+funny, using kino and all that?

 

[Stag]

No, its not...

Look, when you let women pursue you, you still have to be attractive tru your body language, personality, c&f, etc. However, think about it. Unless ur 3ft, scrawny guy you'd be physically dominating any female you approach. Women are scared of strangers. We are not scared that women will hurt us physically, but they are afraid that we'' will hurt them. So that's why you have to be less agressive, less intimidating, etc.
When you are direct and agressive, first you are scaring the woman, second every other guy does it and she basically knows what's gonna happen next. You are being predictable. If you are laid back and let her do the work of pursuing you, she will take that as a challange and work to get you. She will not be sure how much u like her if u do at all. U want to confuse her. Maybe check her out and than ignore her for a while. Then check her out again and then ignore. She will think you like her when u check her out, but when u ignore she will feel uncertain and will be confused. But best of all, she will take you as a challange and pursue you.
Believe me, take it easy in the first few minutes of the approach and just act very, very, very relaxed and laid back. Hold back, dont push her into anything. If there is a lull in the convo, let it be there, its natural. If u show a woman that u like her upfront she will not be interested.
You can also do something I ve ben doing for a while. Lets say you approach a chick and it doesnt go great. Maybe she has a bf, or just doesn't wanna give u her #. Plainly ask her what she thought of your approach cause u r trying to get better with women. Ask for feedback, first impressions, etc. Women will give you some great feedback as long as u don't look like u r gonna smack them for saying anything negative about you. Get it.