Multiple Questions

[Matty]

As a bit of a preface I'd like to add that I'm very un-experienced, so bear with me if some of my questions appear very "newb-ish", or a bit retarded in general. I've been implementing the c/f routine into my daily conversations and it's been a great success, however I just recently had a girl that I've been talking to flip out, saying, "I hate how you only express emotion to me in a negative way." She then proceeded to incessantly whine about how I'm a jerk, so and so forth. A little backround on our relationship: We've always had a very flirty relationship, and have known each other for about 2 years. I've been having the difficulty of distinguishing between c/f and just plain mean. Also, I'm not so good with compliments (sounds weird, I know). I'm just plain petrified of ending up in the "friend zone", where I've been most of my life. I know I'm supposed to use compliments sparingly, but I never seem to use them out because of some weird phobia. How OFTEN should you compliment a women?

I don't have a problem generating initial attraction, however when it comes to escalation, I'm not too good. It's almost as if I'm afraid to let the girl know I'm attracted to her because that will signal her that she's won the game. When do you let a women know you're interested in her?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[Alexander the Great]

Well Matty, welcome I suppose.

I've been implementing the c/f routine into my daily conversations and it's been a great success, however I just recently had a girl that I've been talking to flip out, saying, "I hate how you only express emotion to me in a negative way." She then proceeded to incessantly whine about how I'm a jerk, so and so forth. A little backround on our relationship: We've always had a very flirty relationship, and have known each other for about 2 years. I've been having the difficulty of distinguishing between c/f and just plain mean.

If you've been having great success with your new routine before this girl piped up, it could very well be that you're dealing with a LSE (low self-esteem) girl, who can't handle a little jesting. Someone who doesn't know how to roll with the punches because she takes herself, life and everyone else too seriously. Because she has low self-esteem most likely.

So, what's the deal? What's she like? What's your relation been like? How's interaction with her otherwise? Your having difficulty with distinghuising between C&F and plain mean, and having great success with your newly adopted C&F routine, don't rhime together. Do they to you?

If she's the only one complaining, why are you worried about it? Worried about offending her? Why is she the only one offended? You can't change the way she perceives your C&F. If you enjoy doing it, and everyone else likes you for it, then maybe you should ask yourself if it's time to let this one girl go a bit and focus on the ones who DO enjoy your new style. Tough as it may be (and if it is, I say: Oneitis in some form).

Also, I'm not so good with compliments (sounds weird, I know). I'm just plain petrified of ending up in the "friend zone", where I've been most of my life. I know I'm supposed to use compliments sparingly, but I never seem to use them out because of some weird phobia. How OFTEN should you compliment a women?

Do it sincerely and not to suck up. Be very wary of this, because it is difficult to distinguish between sincere and sucking up once you get into a pleasing mindset. That's the key really: don't do it to please the other, do it because you want to. Really want to. Do it to enjoy yourself, not in order for the other person to feel good; that's just the added bonus you get. Perhaps that's what your fear is about? Sucking up?

Don't do it too often either. The thing with compliments is that they should come naturally, and when they do, it's only now and then. Compliments are like diamonds: give them generously but sparingly, otherwise they lose their value. Or rather: you lose it.

What might help as a pointer: give compliments on big or little things. Special things. Not the mundane. Like shoes you like, an outfit you think is great, a ring you think is nice, or a "feat" accomplishment like a great grade or other achievement that you feel warrants a kudos. (Notice the "you's"?) If you do that, I don't think you can go overboard on compliments, i.e. giving them too much. Such things aren't a dime in a dozen, if you catch my drift.

Just don't compliment on shoes, for example, if you hate them but feel you should be nice. Sincerity, remember? Don't displease yourself by committing treason to yourself. Again: Do it to enjoy yourself, not in order for the other person to feel good; that's just the added bonus you get.

I don't have a problem generating initial attraction, however when it comes to escalation, I'm not too good. It's almost as if I'm afraid to let the girl know I'm attracted to her because that will signal her that she's won the game. When do you let a women know you're interested in her?

When? Simple. From the get go. You show it from the get go by giving her your attention without seeming a puppy. And kino, let's not forget that. If you don't do it from the get go, your behaviour will appear as strange, as you seem to suddenly have shifted leafs and your attraction will be all too obvious. Show it from the get go, but obviously not in a depserate manner. Have you read through the DJ bible linked below at every page yet? Great stuff in there that might give you an idea as well. More than one thread can tell you.

And there's really only one way to show your attraction without making her feel like she's won the game and causing her to lose interest: show, don't tell. Because by showing it, you're saying it without actually saying it. Words spoil feelings, actions and touches do not (unless they're not attracted to you in that fashion).

But the most important thing is that you're doing it in a relaxed manner and because you WANT to. Don't force it. Like with the compliments: Do it to enjoy yourself, not because you want to "show" her you like her, not because you want to please her. Be comfortable in your skin and act as YOU want. It should be like a natural feeling. And that's something you only get by practice. Read up on the DJ bible a bit and then get off the forum and practice. There's no subsitute for practice.

 

[Matty]

So, what's the deal? What's she like? What's your relation been like? How's interaction with her otherwise? I don't rhime having difficulty with distinghuising between C&F and plain mean, with having great success with your newly adopted C&F routine. Do you?

We have a very flirtatious relationship, and she has definately voiced her "desire" for me, however I mainly use her for practice and haven't done anything physical with her as of yet. I DO come up with very clever, sometimes hilarious, c/f lines, however I can overdo it at times, or say something I feel is a little out of the ballpark. To add perspective on how we interact.
Example of something I've said:
G: You're gay. (She has this infatuation with calling me gay; mainly to bust my balls for being a virgin, because she's aware I'm not gay. It's mostly a game to her.)
M: I'm not going to become a homosexual so you have an excuse to stop having those wild dreams about me.
G: Oh yes. Those dreams are so wild.
M: I know. I can see the desire in your eyes every time you walk through that door.
G: (Smiles)

Also, something a big more jerk-ish I've said to her:
(She had just got braces, and I was being an *******, I'm aware of this, however....)
G: Yeah, I got these to be cool.
M: No. I think braces are the one things that you've done in your life that wasn't an attempt to fit in.

When? Simple. From the get go. You show it from the get go by giving her your attention without seeming a puppy. And kino, let's not forget that. If you don't do it from the get go, your behaviour will appear as strange, as you seem to suddenly have shifted leafs and your attraction will be all too obvious. Show it from the get go, but obviously not in a depserate manner. Have you read through the DJ bible linked below at every page yet? Great stuff in there that might give you an idea as well. More than one thread can tell you.

And there's really only one way to show your attraction without making her feel like she's won the game and causing her to lose interest: show, don't tell. Because by showing it, you're saying it without actually saying it. Words spoil feelings, actions and touches do not (unless they're not attracted to you in that fashion).

That's one of the main things that I'm concerned with. I'm good with Kino, and maintaining eye contact at all times. Do I refrain from telling her she's pretty, beautiful, etc? I'm just trying to avoid looking like I'm too into her.

Also, I have a small insecurity issue with being a virgin at 22 (I do have a valid reason for, however I'd like to make it more amusing). How do I reveal this to women in a funny, casual way, with out looking like a total pansy ass loser?

I appreciate all your advice, and I'll take some second looks at the DJ bible. I've been primarily reading David DeAngelo material.

Thanks Man,

Matt

 

[Alexander the Great]

Example of something I've said:
G: You're gay. (She has this infatuation with calling me gay; mainly to bust my balls for being a virgin, because she's aware I'm not gay. It's mostly a game to her.)
M: I'm not going to become a homosexual so you have an excuse to stop having those wild dreams about me.
G: Oh yes. Those dreams are so wild.
M: I know. I can see the desire in your eyes every time you walk through that door.
G: (Smiles)

Also, something a big more jerk-ish I've said to her:
(She had just got braces, and I was being an *******, I'm aware of this, however....)
G: Yeah, I got these to be cool.
M: No. I think braces are the one things that you've done in your life that wasn't an attempt to fit in.

Well, that last remark was a little mean, yes. As far as I can tell of course. Being C&F is always a bit of a feel-as-you-go kind of thing if you're new to it. It's a skill that has to grow on you. And sometimes you just can't avoid making a remark that came out mean when not intended as such. Again: with time, you'll get better at knowing what you can and can't say. Much depends on your feeling of your "target".

The most important thing I think is maintaining a light-hearted, joking attitude. I don't think you ever mean it in a mean way, do you? Remember that. If she took it wrong and it shows (and it will), be innocent about it a bit. Ask her what's wrong ("What I say?"). If it turns out she was insulted or hurt, apologize. Say you didn't mean it that way. Joke about her being insecure or easily offended a bit, that way, you keep the perception on her and not you. A joking manner, that's the key. Do you catch my drift here? It's all you can do if you never consciously intended it in a mean way. You don't control other people's perceptions after all.

Again: C&F is a skill that you have to grow into a bit if it's not something you've always done. It'll go better as you go. I'd say don't try to overdo it when you're new at it, that's a mistake a lot of people make when they're new at something: they rush into it, even if they think they don't, and they cross boundaries easily. Be conscious about that too. Otherwise: chill, relax, try to have fun and don't worry about insulting people if you know you're not trying to. Joke about it. If people insist on being insulted, they're up-tight.


Oh, and: From the sound of your interactions, this girl likes you! Why haven't you made a move yet? Sounds like she'd not object you doing that.

That's one of the main things that I'm concerned with. I'm good with Kino, and maintaining eye contact at all times. Do I refrain from telling her she's pretty, beautiful, etc? I'm just trying to avoid looking like I'm too into her.

Personally I think it's alright to tell someone they're beautiful. Just don't do it when you're just getting to know them. Just don't do it everyday when you're not married to them. See what I mean?

If you're referring to saying this to that girl of above: nah... not unless you're in bed with her, making love. Chances are greater that you'll look like a chump saying it, rather than the handsome, hunting stud that lusts after her, if you're saying it to her in your current condition of, what seems like, semi-insecurity. If you can't be suave about it, making her wonder if you really meant it or said it to take a joking piss at her, don't say it.

Also, I have a small insecurity issue with being a virgin at 22 (I do have a valid reason for, however I'd like to make it more amusing). How do I reveal this to women in a funny, casual way, with out looking like a total pansy ass loser?

There is one option, and one option only for telling a woman you're still a virgin: don't. That's what most here will tell you.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with bringing it up when the deal is sealed or going to be, right before you're going to do "it". You can also tell her after. The important thing is that you're doing it in a light-hearted manner, and not to stress about it. It's really like any other first time. Was it fun? Will you learn? Do you want to become better? Did you enjoy yourself? Etcetera. Don't make a big deal out of it and neither will she. Just don't say it when you're not sleeping together, or are 10 seconds away from doing just that, or wen you have just done that. It serves no purpose and in the worst case, if you're not feeling secure about it and seeming secure about it when telling in a "normal" situation, it'll only turn her off if she's not enough into you. You can never tell how they're into you unless you've bedded them. That means they're into you (where it concerns a normal girl, not talking about the crazies).

As for your virginity: I can understand it makes you insecure. That's perhaps the main issue at work in everything you're concerned about in your posts. Just read the DJ bible. Take what you feel you can use. Heed the warnings, and the tales of woe and red flags. Then get off the forum, go out there and practice. There's really no subsitute, nor a better way to get rid of insecurity, than practice. Practice on life to become more secure by making it the best you can have. You'll lose your virginity in the process. Its really like with learning to drive a car. Pedals, steer. Street. City. Freeway.

 

[Randallpink83]

I'm not a fan of C&F..... I think people should put more stock into P&F.

P&F = Playful and Friendly


Being ****y is a crock, and was designed at first to get really chody dudes to seem "confident"... seriously think about it. ****y is a negative trait, fvck that.

people should work on Being Confident - drop the whole ****y attitude and substitute it with playfulness.