Life reaches all-time low...

[\O/]

So..it has come to the point where I have to write down my thoughts and seek help from you guys. I'm on the verge of depression. Mainly due to girlproblems. I'm afraid it's going to be a long rant, but I just need to air my thoughts :s

After a tough breakup 18 months ago I found this site and started to improve my game. After a while I managed to see some degree of success with the material i used and my newfound confidence due to selfimprovement. I made out with lots of girls, went on dates and my confidence was pretty good. I wasn't very intimidated by approaching girls and I didn't take the rejections personally. I've slept with 9 girls after becoming single. Various quality, ranging from warpig to a solid 8. mostly average chicks though. Chicks i wouldn't turn my head after if i were sober. Even though I got laid, banging average chicks made my confidence go down. I think subconsciously it made me feel unworthy of chicks of higher caliber. In addition to this, I've dated several greatlooking girls. After hanging out with them, they lose attraction. Then I next them in fear of getting oneitis. This is also contributing to my falling confidence-curve.

I'm a very social person. Outgoing and have no problem making friends. That's a great foundation. I'm also decent looking, smart and fit. I'm a bit on the short side though. 5'6 or something (1,73cm)..
I've always relied on my looks for attracting girls in the past, because I have noticed that I get initial attention from girls. Lately I have not gotten ANY attention from girls. Not even prolonged EC. They just look for 1 second, then look away. This is a total confidencekiller for me. I've also been struggling with acne-breakouts these last months, and that has affected my general mood and made me very selfconscious and isolated. It's not the "me" I'm used to. Confidence is extremely appearence-dependant. I'm taking care of that now though. I'm on Accutane. Clearing up real nice. I've also started working out alot. It helps!!

I've started to become insecure about everything! Feelings of not being good enough, not having enough to offer, not being goodlooking enough etc etc. All these AFC-feelings that I thought were gone. I know I'm great. I just have a really hard time conveying that to girls. It affects all aspects of my life. It makes me need approval. It makes me very approval seeking thus making me low value and pathetic. I used to not give a **** what people think of me. If they don't like me, there must be something seriously wrong with them.

All these feelings have made me hide behind the bottle when I'm out sarging. I'm too timid to approach sober so I drink. Alot. I love to drink and I love alcohol. hanging out with my friends and drinking beer is one of my favourite things to do. It REALLY ****s up my game though because I can't seem to stop in time. Poof and I'm s*itfaced... I get NO attention. Can't attract a single girl. Not even the ugly ones. I don't focus at all. I just ramble on like an idiot and say the stupidest things. I don't listen to what they say, I just plow through and skip every single step. And then after having crashed and burned 50 times, the clubs close, and I walk home alone with kebab on my jacket while kicking trashcans in anger and frustration. I turn into the idiot I point and laugh at when sober... This is happening over and over again even though I'm aware of the problem.

When i open girls in bars or somewhere else, I can't think of a single thing to say. Which is weird, because I'm a guy who can keep a conversation flowing naturally for as long as I want when I'm sober. I say the first things that pops into my head, most of the time something outlandishly absurd or mean, drunkenly mistaken for a neg. I go straight for the kill. Starting to hit on them before I create attraction. My mind has some weird logic that since I know all this stuff and how it works, that i don't actually have to do it. Just have to be aware of it. That's one of my biggest stickingpoints. Actually applying what i know instead of just being a moron..or caveman if you will..
Another thing is that when I'm talking to girls or chatting them up, and some other goodlooking guys appear or engage in the convo, they light up and shift their attention to them. This hits me hard. It shows that girls are sooo into looks, and that I'm not on top of that list. Makes me jealous of other guys. Can't do much more with my look. I'm well groomed, clean, nice clothes etc. I just can't see how I'm going to be successful. All these things contribute to a catastrophical mix of low confidence, selfconsciousness (sp?), desperation, bitterness and anger.

In all fairness I have to add that sometimes, when i have the right alcohol level (courage but still in control of my mind), I can spit some great game. I've picked up a few greatlooking girls by using very seductive techniques and sexual kinoescalation. I just can't do it consistently and I can't repeat and copy the process.

I'm just so depressed these days. Rejections are starting to hurt. I question myself. Am I really not as great catch as I once thought I was? There must be a reason why other guys get the girls that I crash and burn with.. And even after having tried to form my mindset into a true DJ. The bad circle here is that the more I fail with women, the more i think about it, the more depressed i get, the more i fail again. I know that my focus should NOT be on women but to excell in all other areas in life, and it will all fall into place eventually. That is ALOT easier said than done...

I just don't know what to do anymore. When I found this site, I KNEW I was going to be great with women. Exceptional. Instead, I'm even worse off than I've ever been... I hate waking up in the morning because i know my day will suck.

I used to be such a happy guy..what happened?!?

 

[Bible_Belt]

First of all, you could try staying out of bars. Pickups happen everywhere.

Secondly, you have to not define yourself by the looks of the woman you're with. Many of the hottest women are shallow b!tches anyway; you don't see that side of them from across a bar.

 

[david2006]

I'd say not to stay out of the bars since the really hot dumb chicks are hard to find at other places... I think he wants to do this type of chicks, the same way as I do, so he just has to figure out a way... It seems to be about getting shallow & highly sexual yourself...

 

[squirrels]

Dude, they're just chicks. I'm in a drought myself right now. It'll be there. Focus on the rest of your life and take chicks as a hobby, not an obsession.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

What are you doing in other aspects of your life? Do you have set ambitions and goals? Are you making progress towards achieving them? Pardon my going all Pook on you, but why are you allowing your success or failure (perceived or otherwise) with women define your personality? Women should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, never the focus of it. It's time to focus on something else my friend - yourself. Reconsider your priorities.

My fear for you (especially at 24) is that you're fixating on getting women as a sign of success and self-worth. Nothing could be further from the truth. You worry that you're not as "great a catch" as you thought you might be? I'll tell you right now, you're not. You're not the PRIZE. Not because you're not seeing the results of it with women, but because you're using them as a benchmark for that worth. You cater your identity to better accommodate what you perceive is expected of you with women. Why? AFCs do exactly this all the time. Unfortunately too many PUAs do this as well, but only after they become involved in an LTR.

You need to unlearn all of these idealizations. Women do not equal success, they are a by-product of it, a residue of it. Become a successful Man, one of influence, one of achievement - for whatever that means to you - and women will naturally want to be associated with it and you. It is imperative that you build your personality and psyche on a solid foundation (that has nothing to do with feminine approval). If you don't you will become a woman's slave in an LTR, not because she wants a slave, but because YOU think she want's a slave.

Far too many guys go the PUA route without a full understanding of what to do once they've gotten their "dream girl." That's not to say that PUA skills are in any way wrong; they're useful tools, but they can't prepare a guy for an LTR (later) nor do they teach him how to defend his own identity.

It's time to focus on yourself. Take a break from chasing tail (let it come to you) and give yourself the benefit of the doubt. Be self-interested (not selfish) and re-evaluate where you'd like to go and what you'd like to do.

 

[MacAvoy]

Two major factors are contributing to your depression. Accutane and alcohol. Both are known factors to contribute to depression. Talk to your doctor about the accutane. I know I was on it as a teenager and it lead to depression. Look into taking something to balance it out, St John's Wart I hear is effective.

The alcohol as well is a major depressant. Especially the next day, anytime your not on it. Try to limit your alcohol intake, if not completely remove it.

These are two huge factors affecting you mentally, even with success, these two physical factors will overpower the mental success you've achieved.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Read this:

Pook's Secret

 

[squirrels]

I can understand WHY it happens. It starts in school...the most popular and stinging insults are, "I bet you've never even seen a girl naked" and the like.

It just goes on from there...social status of males is now judged on their success with women. It really IS an empty victory. Honestly, I've never come home from a one-night stand, with any chick, no matter how hot, and felt like more of a man. Sex is fun in the moment, but once it's done, I usually find myself lying there wondering, "Well...NOW what?"

(That REALLY pisses women off, by the way. )

You want to play women and get laid? You want to be a PUA and go out to clubs every weekend and mack women, if that makes you happy, then FINE. BUT...you have to go do it because you ENJOY hooking up with women, not because you're afraid your ego will be compromised if you DON'T.

Ego preservation is androgynous. Desire is masculine. If you pursue women for validation, you won't have any success. If you pursue women because you WANT them, already BELIEVING that you're a good man and not needing to validate that belief with results, your results will improve.

I'd recommend taking a couple weeks off from women...just set them aside and find something else in life to occupy your mind. Your career would be a good starting place, as would a hobby of yours you happen to be passionate about.

 

[\O/]

What are you doing in other aspects of your life? Do you have set ambitions and goals? Are you making progress towards achieving them? Pardon my going all Pook on you, but why are you allowing your success or failure (perceived or otherwise) with women define your personality? Women should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, never the focus of it. It's time to focus on something else my friend - yourself. Reconsider your priorities..

I'm currently finishing my bachelor degree in Economics. I'll have that finished this summer 2007. 1 year late though..been pretty lazy. I have high ambitions and I'm detirmined to go far in life. But in all honestly I'm off to a slow start. Things have always come pretty easy to me. I've passed through school with minimal effort and never had any real issues or problems in my life. Not used to things going against me like it is now.

I'm not sure when women became the focus of my life. I think it happened after my gf for 4 years dumped me. Hit me hard and i felt worthless. Tried to stay positive, but never really got back to the level I was before or during the LTR. If I didn't get female approval, I'd feel less confident. But it's just like a quick fix though. It's never enough. Even though I know not every girl has to like me, it seems like that's the only thing that would make me satisfied. 100% unrealistic utopia...

My fear for you (especially at 24) is that you're fixating on getting women as a sign of success and self-worth. Nothing could be further from the truth. You worry that you're not as "great a catch" as you thought you might be? I'll tell you right now, you're not. You're not the PRIZE. Not because you're not seeing the results of it with women, but because you're using them as a benchmark for that worth. You cater your identity to better accommodate what you perceive is expected of you with women. Why? AFCs do exactly this all the time. Unfortunately too many PUAs do this as well, but only after they become involved in an LTR...

You are totally right. I DO use them as a benchmark for my self-worth. I think that's just how society has become. The number one status-measurment is how successful you are with beautiful women. People are always judging others based on things like that. If I guy dresses funny and says weird things, first thing that would pop to my mind is "poor guy, he must do terrible with girls". I know other people thinks the same way. Not all, but many.

You need to unlearn all of these idealizations. Women do not equal success, they are a by-product of it, a residue of it. Become a successful Man, one of influence, one of achievement - for whatever that means to you - and women will naturally want to be associated with it and you. It is imperative that you build your personality and psyche on a solid foundation (that has nothing to do with feminine approval). If you don't you will become a woman's slave in an LTR, not because she wants a slave, but because YOU think she want's a slave.

Far too many guys go the PUA route without a full understanding of what to do once they've gotten their "dream girl." That's not to say that PUA skills are in any way wrong; they're useful tools, but they can't prepare a guy for an LTR (later) nor do they teach him how to defend his own identity.

It's time to focus on yourself. Take a break from chasing tail (let it come to you) and give yourself the benefit of the doubt. Be self-interested (not selfish) and re-evaluate where you'd like to go and what you'd like to do.

I agree with everything you are saying here. I know it soo well. I'm just having a hard time actually internalizing that mindset. Chicks are everywhere I go and a constant reminder of what I can't have. Every minute that passes is yet another minute of lost opportunities. Another minute of my life gone forever. I think the reason I can't seem to integrate this mindset is that I'm in a hurry or something. Like I'm wasting my life away. Best years, hottest girls etc. It's all backwards. I want to be successful with girls AND in life in general. Only thing is that one comes before the other and I HAVE to fix that. Starting now. I will stop chasing tail. I'll study and work out. Socialize without actually hitting on girls. Just controlling the situations, being flirtatious and not have any agenda nor expectations. It will only make me disappointed. I'll stay detached. I'll keep my calm and work on bodylanguage instead of routines.

Thank you so much for your replies guys. Good stuff. It's definitely inspirational and amoral booster. Good peptalk


MacAvoy: I've been on Accutane once before and I didn't experience any depression then. I was happy at that time and being on that drug and clearing up made me even happier. I think it's the acne itself that is so depressing, not nescessarily the drug.
Alcohol is definitely a depressant though. Body and mind all ****ed up the next day. Bitter and alone AND with crazy headaches and upset stomach

You want to play women and get laid? You want to be a PUA and go out to clubs every weekend and mack women, if that makes you happy, then FINE. BUT...you have to go do it because you ENJOY hooking up with women, not because you're afraid your ego will be compromised if you DON'T.

Ego preservation is androgynous. Desire is masculine. If you pursue women for validation, you won't have any success. If you pursue women because you WANT them, already BELIEVING that you're a good man and not needing to validate that belief with results, your results will improve.

Thanks for a great reply! I love women and I do infact want them, not only for validation. As everyone else, I sometimes feel lonely if I'm not involved in some way with a chick. Not being able to get that physical contact, and I'm not just talking about sex. Sex sometimes means nothing to me and as you wrote, just make you feel even more empty inside. I'm in a fvkin' cuddly mood Oh well, I guess in time I'll be happy again and just look back at this period of my life and shake my head and think "what was I thinkin'?" I just hope it's soon..

I'll start working on myself then. Again =)

 

[Bible_Belt]

You are totally right. I DO use them as a benchmark for my self-worth. I think that's just how society has become. The number one status-measurment is how successful you are with beautiful women. People are always judging others based on things like that.

fwiw, I have been with a couple very hot girls who were lousy in bed. It was like having a Jenna Jamieson blow-up doll. They just laid there. And I don't like friends and even worse random strangers telling me "duuude, you're gf's hot." Trust me, the novelty of of every slack-jawed redneck eyeing your girl up and down all the time wears off quickly, or at least it did for me. If I could find a HB9-10 who was not a boring shallow b1tch, then I would put up with it, but they all seem to want whipped boyfriends, and that's not me. Over the years I have actually come to prefer HB7-8 women over the hottest ones. I think they're usually better in bed because they have something to prove.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I'm not sure when women became the focus of my life. I think it happened after my gf for 4 years dumped me. Hit me hard and i felt worthless.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Time for some DJ math:

If you're 24 now (too young to post in this forum BTW), and you spent 4 years with a GF, that would make you 20 when you hooked up (possibly earlier, I don't know how long ago you split). This is the source of your frustration and your confusion.

Is it any wonder you feel like you've wasted your time? You HAVE! You've wasted 4 years with one woman. 4 years of the prime of your life. You are a textbook example of why i tell guys to spin plates and never even consider monogamy until they're 28-30. I know brother, I did the same thing myself between 23 and 27.

If you've only been a member of this board for 18 months you still have a lot to learn. The good news is you're unplugging from the Matrix now. Precious few Mature guys here had the same luxury of a Sosuave or a father that taught them the basics. Stick it out, it gets better.

 

[WestCoaster]

Rollo's DJ math is great. Here's some acquaintances relatives of mine:

Brother: lived with a gal for three years, didn't marry her. (Now happily married ... but the first gal was a waste of time).

Friend of a friend: Lived with a gal for 7 years, didn't marry her. Waste of time. After a year, you know the path you're going down, crap or get off the pot.

Good friend: Lived with gf in early 20's, got married in mid-20's, now 40 and in one of the worst marriages I've seen, recently had their first kid ... stupid. Regrets not getting more poon tang when he could, contemplates having an affair. Wasted his 20's.

Me: Two very long LTRs in my 20's, didn't marry either. I knew after six months on each one that they were not right for me, complete waste of time.

Most people blow off their 20's in LTRs ... I did, complete waste of freaking time.

 

[\O/]

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Time for some DJ math:

If you're 24 now (too young to post in this forum BTW), and you spent 4 years with a GF, that would make you 20 when you hooked up (possibly earlier, I don't know how long ago you split). This is the source of your frustration and your confusion.

Is it any wonder you feel like you've wasted your time? You HAVE! You've wasted 4 years with one woman. 4 years of the prime of your life. You are a textbook example of why i tell guys to spin plates and never even consider monogamy until they're 28-30. I know brother, I did the same thing myself between 23 and 27.

If you've only been a member of this board for 18 months you still have a lot to learn. The good news is you're unplugging from the Matrix now. Precious few Mature guys here had the same luxury of a Sosuave or a father that taught them the basics. Stick it out, it gets better.

Yeah, sorry about that. I just wanted the replies to be of some quality and not just random advice from guys much worse off than me.. KBJ's telling me to grab my balls just makes me want to grab their balls (in a very heterosexual way )

Actually, I got into the relationship just after having turned 18. At that point my plan was to NOT have a relationship until I was atleast 25. That's what I told everyone. Then I fell in love after a few months and never really got out of the relationship. I thought about breaking out several times, but it was just so comfortable and secure that I never did anything. I cheated a few times during those years, which I'm not very proud of. But the way it all turned out I have no regrets. The reason she broke up with me in the end wasn't because i became a pushover or acted like a wuss or anything like that. It was because I was so detirmined to have a life of my own and not share everything. (like friends, boys night out etc) This made her feel like the relationship didn't lead anywhere and that she couldn't see us being together in the future. Fair enough. Neither did I. Even though I thought I did the first months after it ended, when I felt hurt, rejected and brokenhearted. It passed in time.

After applying the things I've learned here in the field, I saw some improvement. I just wasn't able to pull on a consistant basis. When I was "in the zone" I did great, and managed to create alot of attraction. I have been trying to spin plates, seeing several girls and constantly getting new numbers. Most turn out to flake. I've laid 9 girls since then, as I mentioned, which isn't really totally hopeless, but it could have been so much better. I'm out 1-2 times a week and also work in a bar. The practice from working in the bar is priceless. I'm allowed to flirt without being persived as needy, try-hard or desperate. Just doing my job.

I don't like to think of those 4 years as a complete waste like you say it was though. I think one of the problems many PUA's or aspiring DJ's have is that they can't keep girls. Being in a relationship made me learn sooo much. And I think that knowledge and experience is going to make me more successful when eventually I get into something serious again.

 

[joekerr31]

If you've only been a member of this board for 18 months you still have a lot to learn. The good news is you're unplugging from the Matrix now. Precious few Mature guys here had the same luxury of a Sosuave or a father that taught them the basics. Stick it out, it gets better.

amen to that bro.

heck, when i was 18 i dont think the internet even really existed. 56k dialup was da bomb, haha. no one told me jack sh*t about jack sh*t - and all m y role models were totally dsyfunctional.

one thing you learn as you get older is that WOMEN ARE NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the key to happiness.

they can add to your happiness, but the truth is if your happiness depends on any other human being other than yourself, odds are there will be plenty of times that you are unhappy.

personally i think television has f*cked up a lot of people. everyone grew up worshipping "other" people, as opposed to worshipping themselves. brad pitt was the prize. arnold swatchzenneger was the prize. rambo was the prize. etc.

and everyone got use to looking towards external people for "answers". and for a lot of guys that someone became some "chic". bloody ridiculous.

in every other period of time men were more focused on their own lives, because they had to be. they saw a hot chic, they went after her. no time to f*ck around. score or get shot down and move the f*ck on.

in today's society we are way to concerned with taking it slow and cautiously. the fact that so much emphasis is made on making the "right" chocie in this world has lead to "decision anxiety".

anyway, just rambling = but hopefully the original poster realizes his problem wasn't so much spending 4 years with some chic, but rather in having so much of his own perceived value hinging on some chic.

nothing wrong with spending years with a woman, IF it's what you want. and if it breaks down in 4 years, oh well, thats life, no regrets since you had a good run. it should only piss you off if you weren't JUST with her because she added to your life, but rather were with her to give your life meaning.

this is why people get so pissed when relationships break up, because they feel part of their own life meaning got smashed to sh*t.

 

[joekerr31]

I just don't know what to do anymore. When I found this site, I KNEW I was going to be great with women. Exceptional. Instead, I'm even worse off than I've ever been... I hate waking up in the morning because i know my day will suck.

I used to be such a happy guy..what happened?!?

what happened? you started feeling sorry for yourself. you can't get up off the ground, no matter how hard you try, as long as you feel sorry for yourself. right now you're obsessing on the negative view of your life.

anyway, go watch GI Jane or something. hehe.

but seriously. toss all your baggage and negative thinking in the garbage dude. kids are starving, dying of aids and being raped in africa every day. so no matter how sh*tty you THINK your life is - trust me, it ain't so bad. it could be a LOT worse.

 

[\O/]

but seriously. toss all your baggage and negative thinking in the garbage dude. kids are starving, dying of aids and being raped in africa every day. so no matter how sh*tty you THINK your life is - trust me, it ain't so bad. it could be a LOT worse.

Yeah, thinking about how kids are being raped in Africa makes me feel a hell of a lot better :rock: j/k..I see your point and I agree. I try to stay positive. Sometimes I feel alot better. These are just tough days...I'll bounce back!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think one of the problems many PUA's or aspiring DJ's have is that they can't keep girls.

I agree 100%, but this isn't your problem. It's almost a cliché that young guys use the excuse of not wanting to fall into the traps of immature PUAs (or Players) and "most guys" floundering in a monogamous relationship, so to counter it they'll try to "do it right" from the outset. It's similar to guys with little or no game rationalizing for themselves that the reason they want to be monogamous is to avoid venereal diseases. Who could possibly argue with that logic? It sounds responsible and would make any girl think "he's different from 'other guys'."

There are people who want to change the game to better accommodate their deficiencies, there are people who make rationalizations for their deficits in playing the game, and then there are people who recognize the game and learn to play it better than others - be this type of player. You are only now coming to realize this by unplugging.

Up until now you've been using an adolescent social skill set. It's OK, the good news is that you're maturing into an adult one, but this transition is causing you a certain amount of frustration (maybe a little depression) and that's all part of the change over. The danger at this point is to slip back into this AFC comfort zone because of this change. It will be far too easy to hook up with an "acceptable" girl and repeat this monogamy cycle and further retard your social maturity. You have to learn to become independent and become comfortable in it.

 

[resilient]

staying single, now what?

It will be far too easy to hook up with an "acceptable" girl and repeat this monogamy cycle and further retard your social maturity. You have to learn to become independent and become comfortable in it.

I'm curious Rollo, from my understanding from your advice and other DJs, you're urging us to stay single and avoid the LTR monogamous trap in our 20s.

What else should be doing in that meantime? I've traveled everywhere in Europe and heading to Singapore and India this month for humanitarian aid. I'm in the process of changing careers but it ain't easy. In my off time, I'm taking 6 hours of dance instruction every week to improve my outer game and meditation to increase my inner awareness while uplugging as you as say on here and various blogs.

I hang out with a group of PUA guys every other weekend, but it seems like they're caught up into the lifestyle it preaches and all the tactics/techniques that comes with it. They are trying to clone others success, behave, and look exactly like the big names in The Game book. I don't see them working on anything else, which is sad to me.

Personaly, I'm 25, young and still have the opportunity to go back to school for my masters and would rather stay focused on financial independence than chase tail.

 

[WestCoaster]

I'm not Rollo, but I'll reply to Resilient. Yes, you should be working on many things and it appears you're doing so. I'm not against having a girlfriend in your 20's, I'm against having ONE girlfriend in your 20's. I think it's healthy for a man to date a lot, have a few girlfriends, flings (protect thyself), and so on. One should also travel (wish I did more), have a few different jobs, work on the career, fitness, etc.

One thing society doesn't teach men (or women) is the 20's should be an exploratory, development time. Young people really need to find themselves. I don't agree with Dr. Laura on hardly anything, but even she said no one should be married until 30 minimum.

Also, people aren't developed socially in their 20's. Most have oneitis/soul myth ideologies brainwashed into their heads. You really have to get this out of your brain, and being with one woman will not rid yourself of these foolish thoughts.

I'm not against gf's in the 20's, I'm against oneitis and obsession.

 

[SoCalMike]

Most people blow off their 20's in LTRs ... I did, complete waste of freaking time.

Damn... me too brother. Me too.

To the original poster: I have said this many times to others - to get women, you have to not give a fvck. LOL

Seriously, like Rollo said FOCUS ON YOUR LIFE. Get into something you like, music (bands/DJ'ing), art, photography, sports, dancing, whatever... and focus on that. Or focus on kicking ass in your career/making money. Travel. Savor being single. Your mindset should be: "what does this girl offer (besides a nice body) that would make me want to give her my time and freedom?"

And don't focus on looks so much. There are plenty of 7's-8's out there who are way more attractive (overall) than 9's and 10's because they're smarter, nicer, and better in bed. Really hot girls are usually spoiled and stupid. But hey if you can find one that isn't by all means... just don't limit yourself so much in the looks department.