It Really Doesnt Matter What Your Opener Is

sangheilios

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Women have 3 places where they peg men

- Absolutely 0 interest at all, no amount of game will work lol
- A high degree of interest initially, you'd have to really screw up to cause her to reject you
- An interest level that is mediocre or "on the fence" attitude, this is where things like personality, charisma, etc. can better your chances.

The reality for most men is the women they are interacting with have no interest at all or medium interest. Women with no interest are easy to filter out and really aren't worth discussing. The only issues with this are with women that lead men on whilst pretending to have interest, every man has experienced this to some degree (time wasters, flakes, attention *****s, etc.). The only skill needed is knowing how to identify this early on and having enough emotional maturity to cut them out instead of thinking you are somehow special lol.

The problem with today is that many women have so many options that unless they have a high degree of interest you are relatively disposable. This is why swipe apps and OLD sites are not good for men, as it's just pictures and the overwhelming majority of men are not really going to stand out in any way where a woman would have high interest. This is where in person interactions shine, if you have a really good sense of humor, very charismatic, etc. it can work in your favor. Again, the problem is that most men are just average/normal guys and nothing really stands out about them.
 

SW15

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Women have 3 places where they peg men

- Absolutely 0 interest at all, no amount of game will work lol
- A high degree of interest initially, you'd have to really screw up to cause her to reject you
- An interest level that is mediocre or "on the fence" attitude, this is where things like personality, charisma, etc. can better your chances.
Mostly accurate. Do you think you get to "high interest initially" due to being 6'4" and one of the fittest guys at your gym? You have the potential to absolutely crush it in gym approaching, but that hasn't been the case.

The problem with today is that many women have so many options that unless they have a high degree of interest you are relatively disposable. This is why swipe apps and OLD sites are not good for men, as it's just pictures and the overwhelming majority of men are not really going to stand out in any way where a woman would have high interest.
True.

This is where in person interactions shine, if you have a really good sense of humor, very charismatic, etc. it can work in your favor. Again, the problem is that most men are just average/normal guys and nothing really stands out about them.
Openers should not matter for you as a 6'4" fit guy. For some have, they have. I can't figure it out.

I am a guy who has had his photos rated online around a 7 so I need some personality to close the deal. I wish my looks could carry me further.
 

Kotaix

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I recently saw a video where a woman said "the fact that he came over and approached me made him a 10/10, even if he was a 2/10".

But overall I think that the spirit of the OP is true. If a woman finds you attractive, she will respond positively. If she doesn't, she's not worth your time.
 

jaymbrs

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Yes, let's see if the friend of @jaymbrs gets the date. There is a ton of pre-date flaking. @jaymbrs knows this as he got the number of a pizzeria waitress recently and she flaked.
Funny enough, he was with me when I got the pizza girls number and we discussed that specific moment as a reason to not get excited about this.
 

Barrister

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I will go against the grain and disagree it was cringe.

Delivery is so important. If your friend was confident and charming when he said this (maintaining strong eye contact, good/confident body language, and smile on the face) I could easily see something like this come off very positively to a woman. It is ballsy and not awkward if done the right way.
 

SW15

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But overall I think that the spirit of the OP is true. If a woman finds you attractive, she will respond positively. If she doesn't, she's not worth your time.
Lifetime, a lot of my approaches have been complete shiit in terms of outcomes. I think a lot of my approaches have been on women who are soft nexting because they already have boyfriends and are not looking for new penis. It's difficult to determine that in an interaction that fizzles out in 30-60 seconds. I rarely get IHAB'ed anymore, but I got IHAB'ed more in the 2000s when I was in my late teens/20s. I thought the IHAB was dead but I saw an approach video from 2021 where the guy got IHAB'ed a ton.

I have had some instances where I didn't get IHAB'ed but I did correctly surmise that the woman had a boyfriend in the interaction without her saying it and without me even asking for a date.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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that's basically what's been the massive shift in the community over the last decade or two.
It used to be about MAKING her like you.
'How can I get her attracted to me in the same way she's attracted to that good looking dude playing pool who she clearly keeps looking at and flicking her hair at?'
It was called 'attraction material' - ''I don't have good looks, so instead i'll make her attracted with my pushpull lines. I'll also tell her some DHV stories. Hell, i'll even open her with a neg to lower her value and make her chase! Dominant tone of voice!'' etc etc etc

But after many many years, people slowly realised it doesn't actually 'work' lol. People got results, but with girls who already liked them. The best still got rejected lots and they were looking in the wrong places as to 'why'. People were being fooled by randomness! (there's a good book about that btw)

Mysterymethod stopped being popular for good reason. People wouldn't abandon a theory on mass, no matter how cheesy, if it was getting fat old bald men regularly laid with 18 year old smokeshows. It fell out of fashion because people began looking elsewhere for something that would help them! (cue neuro-linguistic programming or mode1 etc etc)

Takes us basically to where we are now which is a more realistic stance. Effectively, outergame game is about not screwing up with girls who like you. It's basically flirting. But as we know from the age of 6, flirting is great when a girl likes you, and doesn't help at all when you flirt with a girl who doesn't like you. It's unwanted attention. This is the cold approach dilemma

With that in mind the only surprise to me is that people are still making a living as PUA coaches and stuff. Only a tiny percentage of people would actually benefit from it. You'd need to be someone who doesn't understand about things like eyecontact or soemthing! Nothing a coach can tell you is ever going to help past the very basics of being normal, which most people already are
I agree with this, and I'd also say that the fundamental problem with the "PUA" strategy is that it teaches you almost *nothing* about keeping a women around for any meaningful length of time. In fact, the PUA mindset is probably harmful to relationships in general.

Success with women has 3 distinct skills:

#1 Be attractive (looks, status, resources, personality, etc)
#2 The "seduction" process (ie everything that goes into getting them into your bed)
#3 Maintaining their IL level (things like frame control, shvt testing, comfort testing, abundance mindset)

PUA mindset teaches you almost nothing about #1 (and in fact, not only dismisses it but says it doesn't matter), and almost nothing about #3. It's completely worthless.


The only issues with this are with women that lead men on whilst pretending to have interest, every man has experienced this to some degree (time wasters, flakes, attention *****s, etc.). The only skill needed is knowing how to identify this early on and having enough emotional maturity to cut them out instead of thinking you are somehow special lol.

The problem with today is that many women have so many options that unless they have a high degree of interest you are relatively disposable. This is why swipe apps and OLD sites are not good for men, as it's just pictures and the overwhelming majority of men are not really going to stand out in any way where a woman would have high interest. This is where in person interactions shine, if you have a really good sense of humor, very charismatic, etc. it can work in your favor. Again, the problem is that most men are just average/normal guys and nothing really stands out about them.
What's crazy is that the things women say to me today would have indicated massively high IL 10 years ago, but nowadays most of them all seemingly display high IL at first but may still end up flaking. I mean I've even had experiences where women who make every effort to arrange a date, get super excited, then the next day flake out. I get a ton of likes from women on Hinge every day, and even for me it takes a very concentrated effort to get on actual dates.

The "grass is greener" syndrome is not the only thing at play here, also ADHD and actual mental illness. The ADHD mindset is 100% caused by dating apps/social media/etc is actually bordering on psychosis. Everyone talks about the social implications of OLD/SM, but there's a great deal of neuroscientific evidence that internet addiction (which this falls under) causes identical brain changes to hardcore drug abuse. Social media may even be worse for women's mental health than porn is for men's.

On another note, it's hard to overstate how delusional most women are. They all think they're 10s and all they think they deserve "the best", and their actual standards are not only absurd, but often contradictory, they don't even know what they want.

I'm at the point where I probably won't even date a girl unless she has no OLD and no social media (may make exceptions for IG).

I have also started asking every single girl I date if she uses Tiktok. If they post on it with lots of followers, run away. If they "casually use it" it's still a huge red flag.
 
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jaymbrs

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This has me thinking today that the best time to approach is now. Women are now giving guys “extra points” just for approaching in person because they’re probably over the online ****. So get out there fellas and get those freebies.
 

SW15

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This has me thinking today that the best time to approach is now. Women are now giving guys “extra points” just for approaching in person because they’re probably over the online ****. So get out there fellas and get those freebies.
I have never seen this happen once in my approaches.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

Your friend @jaymbrs made a bold move. He straight up called it out, made his interest known without a shadow of doubt and asked her out all at once.

And he asked her to dinner, not drinks. That says he sees her as investment worthy right off the bat.

That is confident, ballsy, dominant, masculine & certain. All things women are naturally drawn to.

Obviously she had noticed him too or she would not have responded positively but he left no doubt about his interest so he comes off decisive and she feels desired by a desirable man.

The other thing that actually will help him is that he was in a 10 year relationship. That shows he is a relationship guy and also that he is not a serial dater. Men that prefer relationships who are desirable in my experience have no problem acting on what they want.

My fiancé is the same. I met him just off a 2 year relationship that had ended about 6 weeks prior. He asked for my contacts that night, kissed me goodnight and when I woke up the next morning he had already texted me asking me out for that same day. He wasted no time. That’s decisive and women like decisive if they are attracted to you.

What more men need to do in my view is be bold and decisive. It cuts through the BS and puts a girl on the spot. Then you can gauge interest level (does she say yes or not) very quickly. That saves time & your time is valuable.

Fortune favors the bold. There’s a reason for that maxim.
 

jaymbrs

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Advice from the old lady:

Your friend @jaymbrs made a bold move. He straight up called it out, made his interest known without a shadow of doubt and asked her out all at once.

And he asked her to dinner, not drinks. That says he sees her as investment worthy right off the bat.

That is confident, ballsy, dominant, masculine & certain. All things women are naturally drawn to.

Obviously she had noticed him too or she would not have responded positively but he left no doubt about his interest so he comes off decisive and she feels desired by a desirable man.

The other thing that actually will help him is that he was in a 10 year relationship. That shows he is a relationship guy and also that he is not a serial dater. Men that prefer relationships who are desirable in my experience have no problem acting on what they want.

My fiancé is the same. I met him just off a 2 year relationship that had ended about 6 weeks prior. He asked for my contacts that night, kissed me goodnight and when I woke up the next morning he had already texted me asking me out for that same day. He wasted no time. That’s decisive and women like decisive if they are attracted to you.

What more men need to do in my view is be bold and decisive. It cuts through the BS and puts a girl on the spot. Then you can gauge interest level (does she say yes or not) very quickly. That saves time & your time is valuable.

Fortune favors the bold. There’s a reason for that maxim.
I know this guy personally, brother from another mother. He has approach anxiety like no one else I know. His “hi I think you’re pretty, want to go out with me?” schoolyard type of approach did not exactly scream confidence. This woman clearly just likes the way he looks which is my point. If you’re physically attractive to her, the you can get away with these basic lines. Drop some notches in appearance and you better come up with something witty.

The hilarious thing about this is he had been mentioning this woman to me for a couple of months now. So I’m very happy he was able to land his whale. But I admittedly am a little jelly that it took such minimal effort.
 

Bingo-Player

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I don't want to rain on the parade but there is a long way to go from getting the number to actually going on a date

Modern women are very flaky by nature everyone on here knows this too well

although the fact the approach was in the gym should go in his favour because it's going to make it more awkward for her to ghost or be flaky with the risk of running into him in person again

His 10 year history could go one of two ways , personally knowing how much women love to overthink everything the first question on her mind will be "why and how did it end" if he doesn't have a VERY good story it will be red flagged

I mean a couple of weeks ago i went on a date with a chick who had just finished a 6 year LTR ......she kept saying she was over it i didn't really believe her then she dropped the bombshell that she was still living with him !

After talking to her for 30 mins i could see she was plastered in red flags and i am a bloke i wasn't even really looking for them

Women are much more in tune on this sort of stuff

Keep us posted be interesting to see how this pans
 

jaymbrs

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I don't want to rain on the parade but there is a long way to go from getting the number to actually going on a date

Modern women are very flaky by nature everyone on here knows this too well

although the fact the approach was in the gym should go in his favour because it's going to make it more awkward for her to ghost or be flaky with the risk of running into him in person again

His 10 year history could go one of two ways , personally knowing how much women love to overthink everything the first question on her mind will be "why and how did it end" if he doesn't have a VERY good story it will be red flagged

I mean a couple of weeks ago i went on a date with a chick who had just finished a 6 year LTR ......she kept saying she was over it i didn't really believe her then she dropped the bombshell that she was still living with him !

After talking to her for 30 mins i could see she was plastered in red flags and i am a bloke i wasn't even really looking for them

Women are much more in tune on this sort of stuff

Keep us posted be interesting to see how this pans
I mentioned this in a previous post, but yea him and I talked about that but they’re going on a date tonight.
 

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Everything seems to work when the woman is interested, or the guy is high value.

Sometimes the stuff works if the girl wants you in a beta role i.e. orbiter, pic liker, Onlyfans subscription, IG follower, free meal, ego booster, Verizon bill payer, etc.

Drake and Lebron James can do this easily. I do more of it now that I have a Lexus...it does turn heads. But I do vet hard.
 

NealIRC

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Everything seems to work when the woman is interested, or the guy is high value.

Sometimes the stuff works if the girl wants you in a beta role i.e. orbiter, pic liker, Onlyfans subscription, IG follower, free meal, ego booster, Verizon bill payer, etc.

Drake and Lebron James can do this easily. I do more of it now that I have a Lexus...it does turn heads. But I do vet hard.
Hey I like your sig. My analogy was catching the hottest women is like catching the toughest Pokemon.

Though maybe I can start my own thread, but does anyone use Pokemon as a line to talk to women? Pokemon Go really increased the amount of Pokemon fans.

Generation 9 Pokemon created 3 new dog lines, new cat new flower and new tree line.

So if you see a woman sitting under a tree or walking a dog, you can mention the new tree or new dog Pokemon.
 

nismo-4

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Hey I like your sig. My analogy was catching the hottest women is like catching the toughest Pokemon.

Though maybe I can start my own thread, but does anyone use Pokemon as a line to talk to women? Pokemon Go really increased the amount of Pokemon fans.

Generation 9 Pokemon created 3 new dog lines, new cat new flower and new tree line.

So if you see a woman sitting under a tree or walking a dog, you can mention the new tree or new dog Pokemon.
The toughest Pokemon have weaknesses by type. Or just throw a Master Ball and save yourself the trouble.

I wouldn't recommend video game lines unless she's already interested north of 80%. Any other time there's a 1/256 chance it'll work in the way you want it to i.e. escalate north of friendship.

It all boils down to her options, what she's looking for, and her attraction to you by percentage.
 

SW15

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*update* to my friends date.
So your friend used a mediocre to subpar line to get a first date with an attractive female at his gym who is an ex-lesbian?

That's an interesting story.

Is he interested in a 2nd date with her? It doesn't seem that way though her surgically enhanced spectacular butt could be an incentive to go forward.
 

jaymbrs

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So your friend used a mediocre to subpar line to get a first date with an attractive female at his gym who is an ex-lesbian?

That's an interesting story.

Is he interested in a 2nd date with her? It doesn't seem that way though her surgically enhanced spectacular butt could be an incentive to go forward.
I told him his dream girl was more than likely nothing special. Turns out this broad has more issues including 2 kids, 1 that she had at 18. But I still agree he should keep her around for good times.
 
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