I mean seriously.. why am I trying?

[backbreaker]

Okay. AS many of you know I'm a recovering addict. I don't go to meetings everyday anymore, I don't have to, well past that. but I go. About 2 a week. well I wasn't doing much this afternoon and I decided it would be a good day to get one in. So I go to the NA meeting I normally go to and the subject of relationships comes up. I figure that is one thing I know a little about that I can point these guys in the right direction.

So I am telling them that it's important that they wait about a year before they jump into a relationship, for various reasons. the pursuit of ***** is what causes I would say 8 out of 10 relapses in men, directly or indirectly. iF you can say "not for a year", you will be way ahead of the game. WAY. Not only that, if you put that year to work (Which is what we teach HERE) you get in shape, get a decent job, get a decent place, pick up a book or two, learn how to dress.. you can deal with women who are actually about something! what a novel concept?


AGain.. this is like speaking french to japanese people. "Man I CAN'T go without sex", then someone else said "man you must not get it like I get it because I am used to it" (if only he knew and "a real man can't go a year without sex".

I don't care about the insults. I really don't. What I care about is I know how addicts think, and the quality of women they associate with, becuase no real woman worth a damn will take them seriously, are other addict women. if a man is in recovery and wants to get laid, he can either not get laid or go to where he knows he can get women.. the dope house. it NEVER fails.


Druggies like that are some of the worst AFC's there are, becuase they have no idea just how AFC they are and they would rather die a drug addict death than to face up to the fact that they don't have the necessarily social skills/overall package to pull women. They have to have drugs in the picture to get the bottom feeders to take them half ass seriously. It really is sad.

But is bettering yourself really that noval a concept? I went 3 years without *****.. best thing I ever did in my life. I don't need it. dont' have to have it. it's not a must. I'm not controlled by it, therefore i'm not controlled by the persuit of it.

I
​

 

[sodbuster]

You can lead a horse to water,but you can't make him drink[unless you "salt his oats" first]. Just not sure how you can salt their oats. Unless you can mention the fact that the only "cat" they know is addicted, so they will be tempted to relapse.

 

[azanon]

I mostly agree with you because I've preached the same things many times here. TBH, I sort of excuse myself for not having as many conquests as I would have liked to from 16-22 because I was so focused and driven on my education, sports (physical), and just developing into a successful man. There were countless nights at college where I was studying for the very difficult classes where my friends were out partying and probably screw*** around too.

That being said, the part I disagree with is the arbitrary and specific "take a year off". I would advise them to "focus" on bettering their lives, but I don't see nothing wrong with taking a night out of the week to go out and have a little fun "with what you have at the moment". There's no way I'd go 1 year now without some p*, even if I divorced. f****** is simply one thing that I do, by definition now.

 

[backbreaker]

I mostly agree with you because I've preached the same things many times here. TBH, I sort of excuse myself for not having as many conquests as I would have liked to from 16-22 because I was so focused and driven on my education, sports (physical), and just developing into a successful man. There were countless nights at college where I was studying for the very difficult classes where my friends were out partying and probably screw*** around too.

That being said, the part I disagree with is the arbitrary and specific "take a year off". I would advise them to "focus" on bettering their lives, but I don't see nothing wrong with taking a night out of the week to go out and have a little fun "with what you have at the moment". There's no way I'd go 1 year now without some p*, even if I divorced. f****** is simply one thing that I do, by definition now.

what you have to understand is that these men aren't like you. they aren't mentally ready for a relationship of any kind.

okay you been shooting dope for 15 years and you are trying to get clean now.. you go out and meet someone who actually isn't using. let's say she is your normal Attention *****. she does stuff like let you see her with other men and all that stuff. we have SANE men here that can't handle situtations like that. and you want to put a recovering addict through that situtation, his first reaction at that time to stress is to still use. you get stressed enough about something at that point you will pick back up.

doesn't have to really be 1 year. but it does need to be some amount of time. you will know. for me it was about 8 months, when I can basically be me again.

 

[azanon]

what you have to understand is that these men aren't like you. they aren't mentally ready for a relationship of any kind.

okay you been shooting dope for 15 years and you are trying to get clean now.. you go out and meet someone who actually isn't using. let's say she is your normal Attention *****. she does stuff like let you see her with other men and all that stuff. we have SANE men here that can't handle situtations like that. and you want to put a recovering addict through that situtation, his first reaction at that time to stress is to still use. you get stressed enough about something at that point you will pick back up.

doesn't have to really be 1 year. but it does need to be some amount of time. you will know. for me it was about 8 months, when I can basically be me again.

Ok I agree, and you convinced me, but maybe too much. What i mean is maybe you should leave the therapy and recovery to a professional therapist. I'm sure your personal experience has some value, but I'd only consider it supplementary or a supportive element of guidance from a licensed professional.

 

[backbreaker]

I ACTUALLY have a personal theapist. i've been thinking of leaving the meetings.. I don't think I get anything form them anymore other than being reminded of how bad it can get.. but more than anything I don't screw with stuff if it works.

 

[backbreaker]

I ACTUALLY have a personal theapist. i've been thinking of leaving the meetings.. I don't think I get anything form them anymore other than being reminded of how bad it can get.. but more than anything I don't screw with stuff if it works.

 

[Colossus]

Fwiw-

I have known and been close to several people in AA, NA. In the beginning it can be a life saver for them, but eventually it becomes a crutch. Their growth stagnates at some point because they are perpetually around a bunch of dopehead losers. Not saying you are one, backbreaker. Everyone has their story, But you know what I mean. How can you expect to move past addiction/alcoholism if you are constantly around addicts and alcoholics? This is the paradox of these programs and why they dont do long-term good for a lot of people. Association brings assimilation. Good initially, but bad eventually.

Just my .02

 

[jophil28]

Ok I agree, and you convinced me, but maybe too much. What i mean is maybe you should leave the therapy and recovery to a professional therapist. I'm sure your personal experience has some value, but I'd only consider it supplementary or a supportive element of guidance from a licensed professional.

The reason that advice is given ( "no relationships for a year ") in 12 Step recovery is twofold.

A) It is recognised that the recovering person has few adult relationship skills and needs to "grow up " to be an adult and a sober person BEFORE he/she attempts an adult relationship.

B) Secondly, recovery is resistant to treatment and subject to relapse.The addict who relapses will frequently do so when he experiences a surge in anger or anxiety following a difficult life experience.. These two emotions are commonly felt in unstable relationships, and given the addicts lack of skills and poor choices, they are almost certain to emerge in any premature "relationship".

Finally "professional therapy " is best applied as supplimentary to 12 Step work, not the other way around.
For many decades, "professionals" tried to help addicts and alcoholics with very poor results. Most therapists do not understand addiction recovery - indeed, some still promote 'controlled use'.
Most therapists who attempt treament of addicts vastly overestimate their personal skills and professional ability. The failure rate in private counseling is depressingly high.

The healing is achieved in peer groups like AA and NA. Outside therapy is only an auxiliary function.

 

[decades]

get out of those depressing meetings. recovery is something you do by yourself for yourself.

 

[backbreaker]

yeah I think I am going to stop going. Colussus makes a point that I had been realizing myself. you are not an event. I am not a drug addict anymore regardless of how much they try to tell me I am, to keep me to "keep coming back".

it is causing more drama than it's worth and I'm not becoming a better person by continuing doing so.

 

[jophil28]

yeah I think I am going to stop going. Colussus makes a point that I had been realizing myself. you are not an event. I am not a drug addict anymore regardless of how much they try to tell me I am, to keep me to "keep coming back".

it is causing more drama than it's worth and I'm not becoming a better person by continuing doing so.

I agree. IF you are clean and sober but not progressing any further and you have stalled in NA then it has served its purpose. I go to an occasional "top up ' AA meeting just to "check in" 18 years after my first meeting.

I never bought into the popular believe that we are "recovering" for the rest of our lives. How can you be recovering from alcoholism IF you are sober permanently ?.... IN fact on page 17 of the Big Book there is a reference to "those of us who have "RECOVERED" ..not "recovering"...
The concept of perpetual "recovery" is not pure or original AA philosophy , it is a later addition from who knows where.

Perhaps we all need to look at other issues in our lives under the drinking and drugging and "recover" from these. But that is not what is preached in meetings.
I also agree that spending parts of your week, every week around drunks and losers is counterproductive. It bought me no benefits so I stopped.

Good luck.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Okay. AS many of you know I'm a recovering addict.

I would recommend moving any languge regarding any past addictions out of the present tense. By saying "recovering" instead of "recovered" you are sending yourself a strong message. Doesn't matter if every counselor on the planet says you will never be fully recovered, it's up to you to choose what to believe.

and seriously, if you don't mind my asking, why do you give two rips about people that don't wanna take your advice?

did you decide to quit drugs because of what other people told you, or because you came the realization yourself that they were bad, and you found the motivation within you to quit?

Stand back and let others look inside themselves for that same motivation. Some will find it, some won't. Not your problem.

 

[backbreaker]

I would recommend moving any languge regarding any past addictions out of the present tense. By saying "recovering" instead of "recovered" you are sending yourself a strong message. Doesn't matter if every counselor on the planet says you will never be fully recovered, it's up to you to choose what to believe.

and seriously, if you don't mind my asking, why do you give two rips about people that don't wanna take your advice?

did you decide to quit drugs because of what other people told you, or because you came the realization yourself that they were bad, and you found the motivation within you to quit?

Stand back and let others look inside themselves for that same motivation. Some will find it, some won't. Not your problem.

you hear alot in NA "it's not the drugs that were bad, it's the consequences".. no.. crack is pretty ****ed up. i hated the way it made me feel after I was done, and I realized that I was on the path to throwing my entire life away and that I would not be able to achieve anything in my life that I want to, my 5,10,15 year goals if I was cracked out.


I don't care that they dont' want to take my advice, what i care about is why do I even try when it's counterproductive.

 

[st_99]

I know what you're saying backbreaker. My cousins are heroin addicts

and I know what happens when you involve women and drugs.

There is no beating your addiction if you involve yourself with women. One stress and bang, your back.

Although I don't think you beat that type of addiction without a serious plan anyway.

 

[jophil28]

and I know what happens when you involve women and drugs.

There is no beating your addiction if you involve yourself with women. One stress and bang, your back.

This is a good advice.

Practising and "recovering " addicts frequently associate with women who are themselves Adult Children of Alcoholics.(ACoAs )
IF you do some research you will discover that the behavior of many ACoAs closely resembles that of BPD women...( they are both addicted to control,drama and chaos). IN fact there is widespread confusion and overlap between the two groups. Therapists frequently misdiagnose one for the other.

An ACoA or a BPD woman is the worst choice for someone in early recovery.
THey are drama queens extraordinaire and a relapse is practically guaranteed.
THis is why it is wise NOT to enter relationships with a woman for at least a year after going straight. A newbie in recovery is still likely to chose the familiar until he learns to think and live differently,and then CHOOSE differently - that takes time and practise.

 

[backbreaker]

WELL I KNOW THAT.. that was the point of this thread. I'm trying to tell THEM that but instead of listening to someone with close to 4 years under his belt, they chose to question my manhood because obviously I don't know what it's like to get laid at least once a week

 

[backbreaker]

thanks jophil. I actually had never heard of ACoA until that post and researched it, and it described the girl that followed me to the gym and then pressed rape charges when I did not want anything to do with her to a T. Damn wish I would have known about that then.

 

[jophil28]

thanks jophil. I actually had never heard of ACoA until that post and researched it, and it described the girl that followed me to the gym and then pressed rape charges when I did not want anything to do with her to a T. Damn wish I would have known about that then.

WEll there ya go, was she your first loonie ? Plenty more out there .

ACoAs are trouble - almost as bad as BPDs. THat is why all newbies in recovery need to know that there are a lot of destructive women out there who will easily slip under your radar in the first year. IF fact your radar is not even working until you have grasped what attracts addicts to co- addicts. More research, my man. IT is a whole of life process I am afraid.

The good news is that after you have been sober/clean for a few years the ACoAs start to drop off and you attract a better quality woman .You will still be vulnerable to a BPD attack however.
The trick is to be clear about what your dealbreakers are and always be willing to place respect from her at a higher value than pvssy. Then you own all the power.

Good luck.

 

[backbreaker]

well I have been in a relationship with a non addict for almost a year and half now.. not on the market right now.

Anyway, thanks