Gixxer, your answer to why women have guy friends

[Tazman]

So, even if a chick already has a boyfriend, her basic nature is still in effect. What if her boyfriend dumps her? What if her boyfriend finds another chick? If this ever happens, notice she will have back up waiting. Chances are, one of her guy friends may go for her once she is single.

LOL!!! This is EXACTLY what I witnessed with one of my close buddies. He was always hanging out with this one chick who had a bf, whom he was also friends with. He would walk her dog for her and stuff, and I asked him "why are you doing this girl these favors?" He'd always make some excuse but I "knew" he liked her because of how he would behave around her. He denied that he liked her more than a friend...........until her bf surprisingly left her.

Suddenly she was more friendly (to both me and him) and energetic when we were around, she even used kino on me (mild). Soon enough my friend hangs out with her alone and they have sex. She did attempt to try for another guy but nothing happened so she ended up with my friend. I just hope he doesn't put his emotions on the line because this hook up was not her first choice.

 

[hithard]

Guy friends usually want to **** your girl(of course not all girls will).Sooner or later some of them work out a plan to do it.Considering some of these losers have nothing better to do ,or think about.And theres always a time when they say the right things the mood is right and your girl thinks maybe this is what i want.I'd rather not be around that risk.But then again I'd like to take on some of the attitudes of the posters of this board (drZaius09 ,titman and others).The who gives a ****, you dont own them, they dont own you.So stop your crying.I need to take this thinking on board.But easier said then done.Letting go of shiat isnt as easy as I thought.

My problem is i want to control the situation to much.While Im not in the extreme case of 'you cant see them or do that'.There are times when I just need to go with the flow.Wasting to much energy on trying to stop an outcome thats going to happen anyway.Whats the point of delaying shiat.To keep fighting an uphill battle that only one of you think is worth fighting is a waste of time.

this post is a bit outa context.

 

[CLOONEY]

marked to read later.

 

[gixxer]

MD, thanks for the post. Very much appreciated.......

So can we conclude that women will always have male friends at some level?

I guess what I'm struggling with here is that it seems that even women who are more or less trustworthy and display all the signs of high interest level can still have male friends. I'm trying to decide if that's acceptable or not. I'm trying to decide if I'm being overly idealistic or insecure if I think I'll meet a socially savy woman that has no male friends.

I'm trying to separate out my own insecurities and insecurities from past psycho women who ABUSED the privlige of having male friends (or girlfriends that they went clubbing with) and were very obviously (in retrospect now that I "get it) up to no good.

After being single and DJ'ing like crazy for 3 years I finally met a girl that I like and who is all over me. From this perspective it seems that I need to cut her some bit of slack in her dealings with the opposite sex and just watch for signs of BS or double talk.

I'm trying to establish a baseline for how much male contact is going to be a normal and acceptable level. I understand the respect issue, etc. but I realize that no woman will have zero male contact or zero contact with single wild girlfriends. I also realize that asking her stop contact - below the acceptable level - will come off as insecure, needy and AFC.

I don't feel like I'm communicating my question very well and that I'm rambling and I appologize.

I guess the bottom line is: Where is the line between being secure and self assured and un-threatened and not being a doormat? Particularly in a case where the woman displays all the characteristics of a mature, mentally healthy, trustworthy woman but she has male friends?

It's all about trust and therein lies the problem - when you trust you enable another to deceive and manipulate you potentially but if you don't trust you look like an insecure jacka$$. I have come to understand that there are appropriate and inappropriate behaviours that women will have and some that some of us may be uncomfortable with might be "acceptable" in that even trustworthy women will engage in them. I usually got around this by making sure I fukked over every woman I got involved with before she got a chance to fukk me over, but I'd like to take a shot at a more "mature" approach with this particular girl.

gixx

 

[startingFresh]

my question on a similar note is when is the line crossed before it is no longer cool. For example if you girl shows extremely high levels of interest but she has a male friend that not only was a boyfriend in the past but was engaged to her. The broke up a couple of years ago but during that time before me, they would see each other regularly and once so often get some. They still see each other and talk all the time, when does that **** need to stop or is that an insecurity?

 

[Bill S. Preston Esq]

Originally posted by startingFresh
my question on a similar note is when is the line crossed before it is no longer cool. For example if you girl shows extremely high levels of interest but she has a male friend that not only was a boyfriend in the past but was engaged to her. The broke up a couple of years ago but during that time before me, they would see each other regularly and once so often get some. They still see each other and talk all the time, when does that **** need to stop or is that an insecurity?

I think this is a genuine concern and in all honesty I think that asking her to see less of him wouldn't be unfair as she would probably ask you not to see your ex if you were in the same situation.

 

[WestCoaster]

Be seen with other women

Correct on numbers game, build up that bullpen, you're going to need backups.

Also, never, never, never, EVER let a woman know you're worried about guy friends. Just don't do it, OK? Act like you're the prize and if there's Joe Schmuck around, act like you're still the prize.

And though no one follows this advice from me, as often as you can be seen with other women. I don't care if their hot, semi-hot, or not-hot, be freaking seen with them. There is some truth about that movie where Jack Black sees Gwenyth Paltrow as hot when she's not. His hot friend down the hall is amused when Jack Black is going out with her. I'm not saying go for a tanker, I'm saying just be seen with all kinds of women.

Why? Because it baffles women. They have this in-bred theory that: 1, They're always the top girl (wrong); 2, That the guy cannot land any other women (wrong).

ALWAYS be seen with other women, particularly be viewed by the one you're interested in. I really can't stress this enough. Women are incredibly competitive, jealous creatures. When guys find out a gal has a boyfriend, most just say fine and walk away. When women see a guy with another gal, they try harder.

Today's mission -- if you choose to accept it -- is to quit worrying about guy friends or women in general, and be seen with other women. Even if you're not dating them, be SEEN with them.

 

[CLOONEY]

Another few reasons that could be, as I am actually growing tired of everything on the board relating to "evolutionary" reasons, there are some logical, practical reasons also.

Woman, just as we call them "attention who*es", DO love the attention. Sometimes they hang out with guys they would NEVER considering dating, (blows out the, they are looking for the best genes) theory. They would not even date these guys IF they were single! Simple reason they hang out with them, the guy builds their ego!

Secondly, some woman hang out with a guy friend, because quiet logically and simply, they get along with the guy well. The guy supports them through tough times, and gives them advice on troubles. They once again, do not consider ever dating the guy. This is why so many guys are stuck in that friends zone.

As far as being seen with other woman. When I have a girlfriend, I personally go out of my way NOT to be seen with other woman, as I think it is disrespectful and can just cause problems (as then the girl retaliates and hangs out with her male friends), not a good way to keep a healthy relationship!

Girls know through my actions that I am not worried because I am comfortable with myself, have hot ex girlfriends who still like and respect me and carry myself with pride. Furthermore, I need my space and dont always want to be around them because I like doing my own sports, and hanging out with my friends a lot. I enjoy quality time with the boys. Sure has worked good for me, and to this day, I have never dated a girl real seriously without her falling head over heals.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[DonJuanMonk]

If she has guy friends, never trust them, if anything they should submit to you as the alpha/equal male if they don't and beat around the bush then they're either after your girl or wants girly friend attention from her.

 

[Kaine]

What is going on here?


It's absolutely normal for women to have guy friends, just like you and I may have girl friends. You don't need something as complex as a evolutionary theory to describe typical human relationships. You just need to put it all into context.


Here is a truth, if your gf is hot then yes other men have imagined/will imagine screwing her, whether it be friends or strangers. You and I do this all the time, that is the nature of men, BUT whether we screw a women or not is totally by choice and whether the woman WILL reciprocate our/their advances.


The question is, is your woman going to do that? I read from this that the real underlying question been proposed here is, that if my gf has guy friends will she cheat on me with them. Again I emphasize context, just as you would intelligently regard a single isolated behaviour such as a woman touching your arm during conversation within the scope of other behaviours (i.e. oral by the office copier). You need to look at the context.


Are the majority of her friends guys? Has she had relationships in the past with them. Was she an attention hor when you hooked up. What are her values and expectations? Does she have daddy issues? etc etc


You need to look at the totality of it all before making possibly unjustified conclusions about the woman that you date. Human relationships are bit more complicated then you think. I respect Franco's opinions but this theory may drive the actions of some not all women (i.e. attention hors).


Gixxer: put her on parole (as you would with any woman you first date), watch her actions and elicit her values and expectations on relationships. Use your reason and facts to see past your paranoia this will allow you to make better decisions and build better relationships with the value women you desire.


Kaine

 

[DJDamage]

Originally posted by Maximus_Decimus
Now, if you don't have a GF or FB and you want to find a chick to f*ck, you don't just put all your hope on one chick, do you? As this site teaches, you get multiple phone numbers, in a hope to get multiple dates ... in other words, you are playing the numbers game. Now think from a chick's perspective. How does she get the best possible genes and an assured provider? That's right ... she has to play the numbers game as well. And it's all the better for her if she can constantly keep a circle of men around her without f*cking any of them.

So, even if a chick already has a boyfriend, her basic nature is still in effect. What if her boyfriend dumps her? What if her boyfriend finds another chick? If this ever happens, notice she will have back up waiting. Chances are, one of her guy friends may go for her once she is single. So, as it is an advantage for men to play the numbers game, so is it an advanatage to the woman to play the numbers game as well (although it is not in her best interests to f*ck every guy she comes across).

Very good! someone actually verbalized it clearly.

Originally posted by CLOONEY
Woman, just as we call them "attention who*es", DO love the attention. Sometimes they hang out with guys they would NEVER considering dating, (blows out the, they are looking for the best genes) theory. They would not even date these guys IF they were single! Simple reason they hang out with them, the guy builds their ego!

Secondly, some woman hang out with a guy friend, because quiet logically and simply, they get along with the guy well. The guy supports them through tough times, and gives them advice on troubles. They once again, do not consider ever dating the guy. This is why so many guys are stuck in that friends zone.

Great Points! love this thread!

but something is missing, oh yeah and that is .....

Quote: Player_Supreme
“ Your woman in my opinion shouldn't be talking to an ex. It's ok to have men friends but friends whom she used to suck their dycks is not in my picture.

To Summerize:

- No Exe's in the picture, I don't care how much she felt close to him and what he meant to her! It didn't work out! she should say goodbye to him and move on. If she can't move on then you move on. She can't have her cake and eat it too (there are to many women those days that are defining their own "rules" regarding what is appropriate and what is not. Don't put up with B.S). Its disrespect to see the ex as her friend in front of you after you know that those two did the nasty together.

- Let her have her male friends. But pay attention if she spends too much time with them,if there are just too many of them, if they spend time alone with her (1 on 1) and one of them likes her and she knows it, then its disrespect to you. This kind of stuff has to be dealt with BEFORE you agree to an LTR. If you disapprove of her behaviour and she rather jeopardize your relationship by hanging with "friends" and not care about your concerns then you know that she is no good and its back to the numbers game.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Maximus_Decimus
Clooney, you bring up good points. Not everything a woman does is related to evolutionary reasons, but some are. I agree it is definitely normal for women to have guy friends because of shared interests/hobbies, just as men have female friends because of shared interests/hobbies. Some women may also keep a guy around because he is useful to her in some way. And some women may also enjoy it simply for the ego boost.

However, are you sure that women aren't playing the numbers game as well?

Also, have you ever met a woman that is in an unhappy relationship and is on the verge of cheating? How does such a woman behave, especially with male acquaintances and the number of male acquaintances?

As for Franco's idea on "evolutionary instincts," why are women attracted to muscular, tall, athletic men? Why are women attracted to men with power? Why are women attracted to wealthy men?

As for men, why are men attracted to younger women rather than older women past their 60s? Why are men attracted to a woman with soft & smooth skin, rather than a woman with wrinkled skin?

Mind you, just because we are born with a nature of behavior, that doesn't mean we will follow through with it. There are numerous factors that may interfere with our choice of behavior, such as our social environment and our ethics.

But if you are married one day and walking with your wife and children in a park, and the most gorgeous HB 10 you've ever seen walks by, I wonder how long would you glance at her and how long it would take for your "little brother" to get stiff? Nature at its finest

Maximus_Decimus

Will respond later when I get time.

 

[CLOONEY]

Sometimes woman ARE playing the numbers game, this you have to determine situation by situation. You cant just say its all because of one reason, things are not so black and white!


"Also, have you ever met a woman that is in an unhappy relationship and is on the verge of cheating? How does such a woman behave, especially with male acquaintances and the number of male acquaintances?"

She will most definaetly make things hard in the relationship, be irrational, do anything to make it seem like your the bad guy! She will flirt with her aquaintances to assure herself she is still hot and guys like her. Then she will keep more and more male "acquaintances", until she has another branch (so to speak), to swing too! This is the nature of woman! They are like monkeys, wont let go of one branch until they have another to swing too. The relationship will go down the drain, this is where you get REAL firm with her and get rid of her if need be, she will either realise she missed out on a real man and come back, or she will not. If she does not, your relationship was doomed to begin with!

"As for Franco's idea on "evolutionary instincts," why are women attracted to muscular, tall, athletic men? Why are women attracted to men with power? Why are women attracted to wealthy men?"

Some things are explained by this! Definately. Not all though!
Why do woman FALL IN LOVE (yes this is the most important thing to do to a woman, once she does this, she will love you for a long long time), with guys who have stupid quirks? Who can be dumb, goofy but this makes them funny? Guys who are poor and the girl doesnt care one bit!? I know plenty of poor guys who have rich, beautiful woman as their girlfriends (not poor so to speak, but relative to the woman). Infact I have been one of those guys 3 times, before I got my hands on more money. Hasnt changed my outcomes with woman whatsoever! As far as tall, muscular, yes a lot of the time this will attract woman, but not anymore than an average guy, average height, average muscles, with a real pretty face. Did that pretty face make him a good hunter?

"As for men, why are men attracted to younger women rather than older women past their 60s? Why are men attracted to a woman with soft & smooth skin, rather than a woman with wrinkled skin?".

That has nothing to do with evolution. That has to do with beauty! Beauty is perceived in all different contexts around the world and changes over time.

Sometimes people dig way too deep into this evolutionary thing. But I am not writing it off completely, it still does hold some ground! Thats for sure! Just that it is not plain science, as far as I am aware, its still called "the theory of evolution". But that is a debate for another day and one I am not too familiar with. Not to mention, I dont want no god debate on this thread, it is a good thread the way it is and covers a very important aspect of all relationships "woman with their fukcing bottom feeding male friends"!

 

[Kaine]

I'm also convinced by what DeAngelo has sloganed "attraction is not a choice" to be true.


At least on the physical level it does appear that we are ingrained with a generally shared preference in what males consider attractive, and from research it does appear to correlate to health and virility in women.

I know that I have no choice in getting a boner when seeing a hot women with symettrical features, hourglass figure, long hair etc. Conversely the opposite sex are ingrained with a instinctive attraction for certain general set of qualities as well.

How ever been humans we are capable of overcoming our biological desires, because we are not only shaped by nature but nuture as well. The experiences one person experiences over another can reform their values and expectations and as individuals are subject to different kinds of conditioning.

A women may be be bored of her man and attracted to his best friend, but her values maybe strong enough such that personal integrity is more important then giving in to her emotions and acting irresponsibly. Vice versa if a woman has experienced an unpleasant childhood and brought up by a drug selling single mother... well you get the picture. So there are still potentially good women out there, ones who don't have daddy issues or are easily swayed by shows like "s3x in the city" (I believe I have one... for the moment).


In general I've concluded that women with lots of guy friends to be out of the boundary of normality and guys needs to be weary of that fact.


Kaine

 

[WestCoaster]

What I find weird is the all or nothing deal with women regarding men friends. Once you're in the friendzone that is it. (This should probably be on a friendzone thread.)

I have a few women friends, none evolved into dating seriously. But I must admit I have had the delayed woody on a few. After hanging out awhile, all of the sudden I take a little longer look and I'm like, "Wait a sec, I like her body, her smile, her brain, etc., she's hotter than I thought and I wouldn't mind a roll in the hay with her."

I would say 99 percent of women cannot alter their kind of thinking. They compartmentalize, this is this and this is that. They're not abstract thinkers. Once you're a friend, you're a friend.

The problem -- and I'll beat this like a dead horse -- is Hollywood and movies like "When Harry Boinked Sally" and others, all these friends into lovers deal. Not true, women are incapable of it. Perhaps I'm just a horndog and everything looks good to me, but I've gotten the delayed woody on a number of women friends.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Women are emotion.

Looking through that frame, you see what is in their life or not in their life revolves around that selection process.

She keeps the friends she does because of emotion, either positive emotion or nostalgia.

She discards the guy she's seeing or bf she has for lack of emotion, bad emotion, or otherwise.

She longs to do certain things because of the fantasy that the emotion brings to her.

Many guys are in her life for the following reasons...

-college guy friend she counts on for good parties.
-a person she goes to because she relies on them emotional to put her back together.
-he conjures up good emotions, such as humor.
-his presence in her life validates who she is, such as a high-society kind of guy.
-the guy is a replication of the father she never had, or never knew.

Whatever it is, she is buying Emotions with her Time. The rhyme or reason will vary from girl to girl. Fvcked up X's will keep men in their lives that resemble their abusive father's. Other girls will keep men who are trendy or connected because it keeps her feeling "trendy and connected."

------------------------------

My opinion on men in girl's lives is thus...

If you're not at the stage of committment to care, why stress it? Why fight or control it? To me, her fraternizing with other men is simply her actions telling me she isn't the one for me. If I have to CONTROL her to keep her, I do not want her.

HOWEVER, some girls will do what they are allowed until told not to do so. So, a man who cares must make his boundaries known and stick to them. Her biggest excuse will be "You never told me not to," and her next excuse will be "I thought you didn't care, you never told me not to."

--------------------------------

I have this same situation going on right now with a girl I'm seeing versus my own ex from college. We split in 2001, but she's been a great person to talk to and chat with. We are like-minded, have a similar social circle around the country, and talk well. I'm not attracted to her, because she always fought being overweight. Near the end of our last years, part of the reason we were splitting was my attitude. She was gaining weight, becoming inactive, drinking, smoking, etc, and being less affectionate. I was just tired of the baggage, so I ended up going elsewhere.

She's still a good person, and she's gotten back on track, but nowhere near where she was when we met. Looks aren't everything, but at 25 and being honest with myself, I can't hold back temptation, nor can I sit with her and think about 'what if' with the girls I date now.

The current girl I'm seeing has a problem with this, as she views it from the frame of 'emotion' and worries that I keep her in the back until I just give up. I can't change her feelings, but I do lay the law often enough. On many occasions I showed her where the door was or ended the conversation on that topic. It bothers her, but women make more of an issue out of such things.

I can see it both ways, but if any party wasn't that interested, they'd move forward with the past and leave the ex'es where they belong in the past. It's different if you hang out with them, or have a hobby, or something similar, but to me altogether lame to remain chatting every week if you've got nothing but talking to do and you're a guy, or more importantly a girl.

---------------------------

Girls also keep 'guy friends' who are platonic, as protective big brothers when their bf's aren't around. A girl will go so far as to tease you into believing you could score, only to stop you at the goal line. The girls I've dated admitted as much, and heck maybe I was that guy, too? I do know I hooked up with them, so if I was the chump, I got something for it. Nonetheless, girls go out expecting not to pay when they're with men. They go out expecting you to protect them, help them, watch out for them, make sure they don't drink, and be their emotional release when things awry with a boyfriend.

For all these reasons, why have female friends?

Most times it's like having a girlfriend without the perks of sex and bj's for free. I'd rather the time spent on female friends invested in myself and other persuits, or at the very least, done giving it to volunteer organizations. Most male-female friends are just that, or they're only 1 drink away from some hot, lustful, sex.



A-Unit