desert_dweller5
Don Juan
Whats the general consensus on being friends first? The friend zone sounds like a place from which there is no return. or not even worth the effort to try. what do you guys think?
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
Friends first?
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"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
rgeere
Master Don Juan
You guys need to do a search, I already made a hugh post on this way back when ...
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67693
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67693
WaterTiger
Master Don Juan
The main reason a woman says she wants to be friends first is the "Anti-sl*t defence". She figures if you guys become friends first you won't treat her like a ONS and she won't feel like a piece of dirt.
Unfortunatly, "Let's be friends first" can also mean:"You're a repulsive toad and I will never, ever sleep with you....but I don't want to hurt your feelings."
Getting to know some one before starting a sexual relationship IS a good idea these days! Not only can you weed out the flakes, nut-cases & psychos, you can also avoid nasty little things like herpies & other nasty little diseases that can kill you.
Unfortunatly, "Let's be friends first" can also mean:"You're a repulsive toad and I will never, ever sleep with you....but I don't want to hurt your feelings."
Getting to know some one before starting a sexual relationship IS a good idea these days! Not only can you weed out the flakes, nut-cases & psychos, you can also avoid nasty little things like herpies & other nasty little diseases that can kill you.
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
How it usually works
Usually a gal who's attracted to you expects you to escalate things sexually at whatever pace is not too uncomfortable to her. Yes, sexual tension is usually uncomfortable, but is exciting, and cannot be denied if you want a gal to be your lover.
If a gal's not attracted to you, then of course she'll want to treat her as a friend, and is not likely to develop any attraction for you.
This is why "friends first" rarely works for romantic involvements, unless the attraction is there straight off, but one or both of the people are unavailable (in an other relationship or there are other circumstances preventing things from happening).
Usually a gal who's attracted to you expects you to escalate things sexually at whatever pace is not too uncomfortable to her. Yes, sexual tension is usually uncomfortable, but is exciting, and cannot be denied if you want a gal to be your lover.
If a gal's not attracted to you, then of course she'll want to treat her as a friend, and is not likely to develop any attraction for you.
This is why "friends first" rarely works for romantic involvements, unless the attraction is there straight off, but one or both of the people are unavailable (in an other relationship or there are other circumstances preventing things from happening).
For me, I much prefer really getting to know someone as a friend first before getting involved with them on a deeper level. The attraction MUST be there, though. By that I mean that if I'm not attracted to a guy right from the get go...being friends first won't make me want a relationship with him.
“The 22 Rules That Turned Me From Invisible to Irresistible With Women… Starting Tonight”
You can skip the expensive cars, the fancy clothes, and the endless gym selfies. Completely unnecessary.
I used to freeze the second a beautiful woman looked my way. Frustrated. Awkward. Watching other guys walk away with the girl while I stood there tongue-tied.
Then I discovered 22 simple rules that rewired my entire dating life. The anxiety vanished. Conversations flowed effortlessly. Women started chasing me for a change.
These rules trigger a woman's subconscious attraction switches. And you can start using them tonight.
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
cut off post
ISP acting flippy... next post correct
ISP acting flippy... next post correct
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Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
One thing to add...
If a woman is attracted to a man, and he doesn't step up to the plate more-or-less when she's ready and both people are able, she usually will lose her attraction for him.
This is what we refer to as the "friendzone" on this site: initial attraction killed by behavior or sexual timidity that turns her off.
So this leads right back to why "friends first" rarely works out. It can work out if the sexual tension remains and the man is perceived as holding back via self-control, rather than timidity.
If a woman is attracted to a man, and he doesn't step up to the plate more-or-less when she's ready and both people are able, she usually will lose her attraction for him.
This is what we refer to as the "friendzone" on this site: initial attraction killed by behavior or sexual timidity that turns her off.
So this leads right back to why "friends first" rarely works out. It can work out if the sexual tension remains and the man is perceived as holding back via self-control, rather than timidity.
friends first
I want to ask something: Whats wrong with being friends with a girl? If she's genuinely good person and she's there for you when need you her then why not be friends? What? Just because she's not attracted to you that way? We guys need to really grow up. We need to stop thinking with our "PIECES" and start thinking with our brains. A wise person told me once that you can never have to many friends-let it be a girl or boy.
One last thing: When you take a girl for the first time out go as friends..Have a good time with her..because if you are really into a girl then sex shouldn't be the frist thing on your mind. Just being with her-seeing her smile at you-those sort of things-getting to know HER. Naturally, things will come together if you two are compatible. Now of course you should make some subtle flirting moves on her(or she'll think your gay) but don't concentrate on it...just relax.. if your destiny is to become friends so be it..don't force her to like you and don't change yourself to suit her, BE yourself..
I want to ask something: Whats wrong with being friends with a girl? If she's genuinely good person and she's there for you when need you her then why not be friends? What? Just because she's not attracted to you that way? We guys need to really grow up. We need to stop thinking with our "PIECES" and start thinking with our brains. A wise person told me once that you can never have to many friends-let it be a girl or boy.
One last thing: When you take a girl for the first time out go as friends..Have a good time with her..because if you are really into a girl then sex shouldn't be the frist thing on your mind. Just being with her-seeing her smile at you-those sort of things-getting to know HER. Naturally, things will come together if you two are compatible. Now of course you should make some subtle flirting moves on her(or she'll think your gay) but don't concentrate on it...just relax.. if your destiny is to become friends so be it..don't force her to like you and don't change yourself to suit her, BE yourself..
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
Don Juanabbe
Master Don Juan
Maybe it's because I'm older, but I don't understand this friend zone problem.....
I mean, this hasn't been a problem for me since I was a teenager.
I've had plenty of girls as friends when I had a girlfriend of my own, especially, and I've bagged loads of them, after having known them months and even years....
Christ, they were crawling out of the woodwork when I brokeup with my ex.
I just don't get it. How the hell do you guys land yourselves in this predicament?
Oh wait, you talk about feminine crap with them and kiss their arses....
I guess I grew up on the cusp of this AFC generation. Believe me, I had my moments, but never anything as bad as some of the sh*t I've read on this board.
I mean, this hasn't been a problem for me since I was a teenager.
I've had plenty of girls as friends when I had a girlfriend of my own, especially, and I've bagged loads of them, after having known them months and even years....
Christ, they were crawling out of the woodwork when I brokeup with my ex.
I just don't get it. How the hell do you guys land yourselves in this predicament?
Oh wait, you talk about feminine crap with them and kiss their arses....
I guess I grew up on the cusp of this AFC generation. Believe me, I had my moments, but never anything as bad as some of the sh*t I've read on this board.
Don_Joffe
Senior Don Juan
I think being friends first is the long way to getting her and sometimes you can fall into the friend category and be stuck in it for eternity.
I would personally not be friends first, first lovers, then friends.
I would personally not be friends first, first lovers, then friends.
Absolutely! You should be friends with a woman first. BUT! the acceptable period for being friends with a girl is anywhere from 3 hours to 1 week... any more than that and you are wasting your time.
I've said one week as a maximum, because in that time you should have caught up with her for at least a second date and if you haven't made a move by then, you are dead in the water.
I've said one week as a maximum, because in that time you should have caught up with her for at least a second date and if you haven't made a move by then, you are dead in the water.
Re:
View all prospective women as "friends" from the perspective of a guy.
A guy who treats all his ladies like he treats any other friend...
never placed her on a pedastal...
evaluates her rationally...
maintains your grounding and power...
allows you to next her w/out getting caught up in the physicality of interaction...
doesn't worry about times to call, issues, etc...
negates any possibility of being "friended" first...
I). It's a good strategy for yourself, if you need the tip.
II). The more women you "thrust yourself upon" the more desparate or "playeresk" you'll appear.
When I "befriend" a woman and told her it straight up, she recoils. Furthermore, any girl I've never wanted anything more with than friendship, has always wanted more.
Also...there's a different element at play when you look at as friends...
first off, you just met her, why are you treatin' her better than your own friends?
secondly, she'd be priviledged just to be a friend, and if she became more, then that's gold in the bank.
For the guys knocking DYD, the biggest point he makes out is to have value for yourself. We are all important, and none of us are important. It's a paradox, but if you stay bound by the Ego world, then you believe someone who has more money is better, or has a better body is better, or is charismatic is better, or is a CEO is better.
If you do what you want to do in life, even if you screw up, at least you'll have no regrets and you'll learn in the process.
A-Unit
View all prospective women as "friends" from the perspective of a guy.
A guy who treats all his ladies like he treats any other friend...
never placed her on a pedastal...
evaluates her rationally...
maintains your grounding and power...
allows you to next her w/out getting caught up in the physicality of interaction...
doesn't worry about times to call, issues, etc...
negates any possibility of being "friended" first...
I). It's a good strategy for yourself, if you need the tip.
II). The more women you "thrust yourself upon" the more desparate or "playeresk" you'll appear.
When I "befriend" a woman and told her it straight up, she recoils. Furthermore, any girl I've never wanted anything more with than friendship, has always wanted more.
Also...there's a different element at play when you look at as friends...
first off, you just met her, why are you treatin' her better than your own friends?
secondly, she'd be priviledged just to be a friend, and if she became more, then that's gold in the bank.
For the guys knocking DYD, the biggest point he makes out is to have value for yourself. We are all important, and none of us are important. It's a paradox, but if you stay bound by the Ego world, then you believe someone who has more money is better, or has a better body is better, or is charismatic is better, or is a CEO is better.
If you do what you want to do in life, even if you screw up, at least you'll have no regrets and you'll learn in the process.
A-Unit
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
Royal Elite
Banned
I wont even waste time talking about what a girl thinks about this because Im no girl, so I dont care but I will talk from a guy's perspective.
What's wrong with this is that you didnt see here and think that you want to be her friend, therefore the only reason you are doing this is because you are too chicken hearted to come at her differently (dont front we all know we have experienced this at least once).
Freeman
There is nothing wrong with being a chick friend if that is all you want her for (usually when you are not attracted to her).
Let it be known-being friendly and posing as "just a friend" is not the same thing. Being friendly means I will treat her the same way as I treat all my guy friends but the difference is I will let it be known I am interested in something more, whereas the "friend" shows no interest or any other sign that he is a Man or has balls.
Dont ever fool yourself and think a girl dont know if you are interested or not, she's can spot a boy or a Man very quickly.
Re: wrong
I have great rapport with dozens of women, but they are all workmates, friends, etc who I have absolutely no chance of getting anywhere with. The women at work who I turned into f-buddies only became that way after I deliberately set about getting them turned on and thinking about me in a sexual way.
After coming to this site I have realised that we don't have to spend 3 months or a year 'wooing' a girl. With a bit of charm and a few suggestive comments and touches in the right spot, you can shrink that time down to a week (i.e. the second date).
I used to think like this Freeman. Then after a while I discovered that turning a girl into a girlfriend/f-buddy/lover relied only partly on the rapport built up. It relies a hell of a lot more simply on how much you can turn her on.
I have great rapport with dozens of women, but they are all workmates, friends, etc who I have absolutely no chance of getting anywhere with. The women at work who I turned into f-buddies only became that way after I deliberately set about getting them turned on and thinking about me in a sexual way.
After coming to this site I have realised that we don't have to spend 3 months or a year 'wooing' a girl. With a bit of charm and a few suggestive comments and touches in the right spot, you can shrink that time down to a week (i.e. the second date).
Re: Re: wrong
Well let me elaborate CREMASTA..When I said that it will take longer than a week you have to understand my reasons for saying that. There are so many variables that could come into play with a certain chick: MAybe you only she her once a week for 30 minutes and that might be in a highly stressful environment. Or another example: what if the girl the girl has a Boyfriend? You see? Thats why I say at leats more than a week..Maybe it could work if you saw her everyday and its at the library or something, but other than that I just don't see it. And also, when I speak of friends with a girl usually there's a whole lot of flirting going on, then when I feel its right make a move. Not idly waiting for some big spark with the girl. I flirt immediately-I just don't make feelings known right from the start..
Well let me elaborate CREMASTA..When I said that it will take longer than a week you have to understand my reasons for saying that. There are so many variables that could come into play with a certain chick: MAybe you only she her once a week for 30 minutes and that might be in a highly stressful environment. Or another example: what if the girl the girl has a Boyfriend? You see? Thats why I say at leats more than a week..Maybe it could work if you saw her everyday and its at the library or something, but other than that I just don't see it. And also, when I speak of friends with a girl usually there's a whole lot of flirting going on, then when I feel its right make a move. Not idly waiting for some big spark with the girl. I flirt immediately-I just don't make feelings known right from the start..