Either you go in HOT or you slowly manipulate (especially American women)

[SpartanWarrior77]

I am starting to wonder if anyone can relate:

Some men are really good at going in HOT. They immediately grab the frame and convey to the woman who's in charge. She instantly becomes submissive. Some guys are really good at this. Usually a by-product of game, experience and sometimes good looks, status, etc.

In my experience, since I am more quiet and less comfortable with my aggression, I proceed with more caution. I think that I'm close to being more aggressive but it still comes out rough and I don't know how to do it without being offensive. I'm working on it though and I'm a lot better than I used to be.

But the other tactic is that you kind of appear to go with her frame in the beginning. Yeah, you won't get the respect and submission that you want right away but over time you can gently steer the ship your way. However, I am not saying that you should enter a relationship where you're not in charge in the beginning. I am talking more like if it takes 3-5 dates before the lay VS 1-2 dates, then it's not that big of a deal if you had to play into her frame in the beginning.

I find it hard to just be super aggressive at first. I rather kind of observe her and gently take control with a bit more time.

This is especially true with American women because they are rather domineering so it's hard to make them stop without being really comfortable with your aggression. Other cultures, the women are more submissive off the bat.

Can anyone relate?

 

[gravityeyelids]

Honestly man...just no. You should not be waiting five dates to bang her in pretty much any circumstance. You need to lead and act with intention. Always. You can go mildly indirect with your approach, but we're talking literally the first 30 seconds, and then you need to shift into a sexual and leading mode. Or you could simply go direct from the beginning.

You don't have to be over the top loud and aggressive to be dominant and lead. You just sound like you need more experience with this. It will come with time. You're crippling yourself by being not comfortable with your masculinity and dominance. I'm not saying to go around slapping girls' asses and calling them slvts - use common sense here, but a lot of what pickup guys would call "aggressive" game is still within the bounds of what is socially acceptable. Meaning it won't usually get you in a fight or in trouble unless you're VERY uncalibrated, drunk, and aggressive, and you keep pushing things when people tell you to stop.

The whole "american women are domineering" thing is just an excuse. Plenty of us here pick up american women on a regular basis with zero issue. It's not worth even worrying about, and even if it is true, that only means you need to be more dominant to show them you know how to put them in their place and handle things.

Here's the thing: women who appear to be domineering want to be controlled even more aggressively by even more dominant men. This does not mean she WANTS control or wants you to be weak or submissive. It means she wants a guy who knows how to handle her. It's a sh!t test, just like her good looks and if you react poorly to it, you lose.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

Honestly man...just no. You should not be waiting five dates to bang her in pretty much any circumstance. You need to lead and act with intention. Always. You can go mildly indirect with your approach, but we're talking literally the first 30 seconds, and then you need to shift into a sexual and leading mode. Or you could simply go direct from the beginning.

You don't have to be over the top loud and aggressive to be dominant and lead. You just sound like you need more experience with this. It will come with time. You're crippling yourself by being not comfortable with your masculinity and dominance. I'm not saying to go around slapping girls' asses and calling them slvts - use common sense here, but a lot of what pickup guys would call "aggressive" game is still within the bounds of what is socially acceptable. Meaning it won't usually get you in a fight or in trouble unless you're VERY uncalibrated, drunk, and aggressive, and you keep pushing things when people tell you to stop.

The whole "american women are domineering" thing is just an excuse. Plenty of us here pick up american women on a regular basis with zero issue. It's not worth even worrying about, and even if it is true, that only means you need to be more dominant to show them you know how to put them in their place and handle things.

Here's the thing: women who appear to be domineering want to be controlled even more aggressively by even more dominant men. This does not mean she WANTS control or wants you to be weak or submissive. It means she wants a guy who knows how to handle her. It's a sh!t test, just like her good looks and if you react poorly to it, you lose.

I think you have a good point especially about how it's just one giant **** test. But I find it very emotionally uncomfortable breaking past that **** test. Like, what do you do/say when a girl is just free-flowing, spontaneous but all while running circles around your frame? It's hard to just snap her back into reality. They seem so sure of themselves. That's why I'm advocating a more subtle approach. Otherwise, you may come off as abrasive.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

Polarity is everything, so there is a type of woman that will respond with better polarity to a passive man for sure. I think all women like aggressive men to some extent but they might not be comfortable giving up power to the man and relying purely on soft power, and even moreso they might view an aggressive guy as too easy. An aggressive guy is not a challenge if you think about it.

Personally, I am extremely aggressive so if I'm passive it is because I'm uncertain about the girl or if there are social reasons for not wanting to make a first move, like reputation. Sometimes that can drive women nuts and they will chase you but usually they tend to get bored after the initial chase and find someone else.

I think I'm talking about the idea of not being abrasive when you break through her frame. Sometimes they are so free flowing and sure of themselves that they just walk all over you effortlessly. I want to know how to break that without being rude.