Doc Love was wrong

[ogre]

One of the things he emphasises in his "system" is to keep the phone conversation short, get a date, and hang up. The purpose of a phone is to get a date, not to have conversations, according to the Doc. There is nothing in his book about email at all, but I assumed based on his telephone protocols that one should do the same with email or IM.

I'm finding that doing this is a good way to get a girl's IL to drop fast and creep her out. Then the next time a call I get voice-mailed. or if I email it doesn't get returned.

Maybe if I was a hot young alpha stud on an experienced pimp I could get away with this, 'cause the girl would just by DYIN' to see me. But as an older guy and a newbie I am finding that the best thing to do is hang back. Don't be in such a rush to close for a number. Don't be in such a rush to get a date. Face it. at my age, talking to women in their 20's their creep alarm is going to be set on High. Proceed with extreme caution, and patience. Just chat, allow her a chance to feel some familiarity, allow some time for her creep alarm to settle down. maybe send an email or call every now and then. if she wants to see me she'll let me know.

This is the "new thing" I am trying. Too soon to tell if this will lead to dates and sex, but so far at least they do write back and are not flaking out.

so..... what do you think of all this?

 

[DJDamage]

One of the things he emphasises in his "system" is to keep the phone conversation short, get a date, and hang up. The purpose of a phone is to get a date, not to have conversations, according to the Doc. There is nothing in his book about email at all, but I assumed based on his telephone protocols that one should do the same with email or IM.

I'm finding that doing this is a good way to get a girl's IL to drop fast and creep her out. Then the next time a call I get voice-mailed. or if I email it doesn't get returned.

Some of the things Doc Love says do make sense and some don't. In this case I somewhat agree with him. The phone conversation should not be long. However you do need to create a bit of rapport and build up to the actual date. You still have to remain mysterious and make her laugh a little before you make the plans to set up the date. The Max should be about 10 minutes and then casually say you have to leave and will talk to her again when you see her.

During the date then you should be doing the balk of the conversation but not deep conversations (Let her talk more and about herself and fun topics). That is why Action Dates are always good because you do not neccessary talk about yourself but on the excitment of the situation and the action it brings out.

 

[bobbob]

The "way" is different for everybody ... the best thing to do is try everything and see what works for you.

I've learned the hard way that all these "systems" (even the dj bible) are horribly incomplete and do not give you all the answers. They're just there to correct your path every once and a while

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

The key to any type of initial interaction with a woman is rapport. It doesn't matter if it's a face to face approach, IM, email or smoke signals, if rapport isn't high interest level will be even worse. If that's the case, you aren't going anywhere.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by RogueWarrior
...Find a balance. Have a good intelligent conversation for about 10 minutes, then say that you've got to run (urgent business, have to be somewhere, i.e. something that says to her that you've got a life) and say "How about meeting for dinner this weekend? I'm thinking *insert nice place* at 7pm."

This is why I make most of my dates while I am at work, I just don't have the time to chit-chat while I am at my desk. A long conversation for me would definitely be less than 10 minutes. Plus it's a indirect way to get social proof when the ladies (and guys for that matter) in the office hear you setting up a date two or three times a week.

 

[NewMan]

It depends on how good a personality you have.

Personally, I've talked to women on the phone for an hour at a time - with no negative effect.

I don't limit my conversations on purpose. I just do what I feel like.

But I think this is more of a rule for guys who are not good conversationalists.

 

[ogre]

Sometimes, a chick may give you her phone #, e-mail address, or IM address just to get rid of you. It doesn't mean jack squat unless you have established enough rapport and she sees enough value in you to warrant another meeting.

that's right. And that's why so many guys are bangin' their head against the wall wondering why chicks give out their # and then flake.

so what I guess this means is I am using phone/email to build rapport, not to close dates

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Maximus_Decimus
Francisco is dead on. You can use the phone, e-mail, or IM ... you will be ultimately be rejected in the end if you don't establish enough rapport.

Sometimes, a chick may give you her phone #, e-mail address, or IM address just to get rid of you. It doesn't mean jack squat unless you have established enough rapport and she sees enough value in you to warrant another meeting.

Maximus_Decimus

That's why I never ask for a number until it's readily apparent that we have very good rapport. If we don't, I don't ask ergo no rejection. More times than not the woman offers her number first just because the rapport was good and her IL is high.

 

[ER!C L!VE]

I talk to girls online in chat rooms or myspace.

Chat with them using IM and get a feel for their personality and if they're into me....

You'll should be able to tell if you're both enjoying the conversation -- it should just flow smoothly...

I haven't done the email thing too much.. maybe 1 or 2 emails. My experience tells me that they'll usually do one of the following:

1. Give you their phone number if you ask for it and allow you to call them right then.
2. Call you immediately (if using IM) when you email your phone number to them.
3. Tell you their phone number and ask you to call them, if you send them your phone number first.
4. Give some lame-ass excuse as to why they can't give their phone number or call you. (This is usually a sign that means, move on to the next girl.)

If you get them on the phone, you talk for a while.. I've found that talking longer is usually better. Perhaps about an hour.

After the long conversation, you say something like "we should go out sometime" or "let's meet [insert public place here]." THey'll usually agree or if the conversation doesn't work out, then they'll decline or set something up and flake on you at the last minute.

Cheers!

ER!C L!VE
www.tenderz.net/tenderzforum

 

[Bonhomme]

It all depends

If a phone convo is going really well, and you're getting her all worked up, why restrict it to just a few minutes?

Anybody ever visited the web site for that notorious women's dating book The Rules? They advised the gals to cut phone calls short so they don't get too worked up over a guy. Got that?

Why not get 'em worked up?

It's good to cut the convo short just as the momentum starts to flag a tiny bit. Kinda like holding a stock while it's on the rise and selling just after it has peaked. Play it for what it's worth but keep 'em wanting more.

On the other hand, if the phone call's not so great, by all means set the date and sign off. Whatever the vibe dictates. It's all about going with the flow.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

For me I consider "face time" to be the time where I build rapport. The telephone is just there to exchange pleasantries(spl?) and schedule dates.

All this email stuff I don;t get. I would never accept an email instead of a telephone number. I've actually scenE a guy get dissed like that. He asked for the digits and she said NO, but take my email address. He didnt have a chance.

 

[Strctlypltnc]

Heres my thing with e-mail. When e-mailing a woman I keep things simple and straight to the point.
E-mails great to get a point across , but its also very, very informal. There is No way at all to gauge interest , no body language, eye contact, not even the discernable change in the tone of voice. so deliver them at face value and determine them at face value......