any advice would be appriciated

[bauer_23]

I have been meaning to post for a while, and figure I might as well now.

a little background. I am 25 and finished with school come may with a degree. I did well enough so that i'll likely land a good job, and start off well with my professional life. I am very active, working out 5 days a week, and played a host of sports during college as hobbies. im no 10, but my looks will probably never hold me back, so its not a concern of mine.

My problem is akin to many who have posted before in this forum; ive never really had a girlfriend. I have read the bible, worked on and improved over the years approaching and gotten many #'s, some "dates" ( outings, whatever you want to call them). I have made it a priority to improve my social skills with people in general, and feel that I have been sucsessful in that aspect in many ways. I do have a good number of friends, only a few close friends, most of whom are guys. this is likely becasue I am in a scientific major in college.

I wouldnt attribute this wholly to my problem, but ive obviouslly never had sex with a women. That alone makes me feel like im on the outside looking in when considering everyone I know. All my friends are getting girlfriends, getting married or making some progress. I am still fumbling around on middle school issues. The furthest I can get with a girl is usually hang out with them ( diner, etc), but they lose interst within a few weeks, and we stop talking. I'd go as far to say my initial game to get their # and get them out is actually o.k. Its only the following events where I seem to crumble and end up where I start.

Now im at a point where every women I talk to I see the same end. My confidence is pretty low right now, and I can't seem to get it back. I can't have fun when I do go out that women find attractive, and its just making things worse. with this low confidence, I don't approach often anymore. In fact I am approaching far fewer girls now than I have been in the past. As others have said, its just a downward spiral. In fact, I can barely have fun at all. I really do not know what to do at this point with myself.

-approach more? get more #'s?
-get help?

im open to all advice, even if its "see XYZ thread because this has been posted". I don't feel as if my situation is wholly unique, but was merit enough for a thread of its own. I appriciate any advice people with similar past quanderies have to share.

 

[Bible_Belt]

but they lose interest within a few weeks

Weeks? Women must think highly of you to give you that much time.

"Women want men to lead all the way, 'make the ho say no'."

 

[bauer_23]

You seem to have the right idea I think. I'll try and elaborate a bit more since im sure alot of what ive been saying is vague

a) Not making advances

I may be 25, but my abilities to make advances is probably that of a 17 year old confused high schooler. I havnt had much expereince making agressive advances, since im pretty laid back. Its something i've made an effort to change, but its coming along slowly. I can think of many times where my lack of advnacements led me to being completly dumped.

Its a work in progress, and a bit more difficult for me than others my age. Women expect 25 year olds to be better in that respect than I am.


c) Are not recognizing when women are attracted to you

I have been told this many times, it is correct

d) You're way too picky

my standards are probably too high


lets take my most recent case. I closed a girls number at a party we were having, and definatly hitting on all cyllinders that night. we talk for a while, and start hanging out, go to the bar, dance etc. I have in fact watched a movie with this girl and snuggled a on several occasions. unfortunatly I feel I am losing any interest she had, and lately she's flaked on several outings we planned . Last time we were out, she seemed to be avoiding me more, and talking mostly to other guys. Again, I believe she's losing interest which was once pretty strong.

My next course of action is asking her to diner sometime next week ( weds ,thurs, fri, or sat) until she says no. in which case notch another failure onto my belt

I appologize for sounding like a teenager. again I appriciate the comments/ critisizms that everyone provides

 

[Docs]

mmm, just have to poke at this.

Are you making it seem more then just two people awkwardly sitting at a table, eating food and talking about politics, or the news, or how the flowers are nice and fluffy, and yellow?

If you are Not, then that is problem Number 1.

--

You mention that you've gotten a few at parties. Cool! You say you've cuddled with them watching a movie. Are you making a move at all?

If you are Not, then that is problem Number 2.

--

Do you feel you are comfortable with girls overall, in meeting, conversing, and Flirting, at any given time.

If you are Not, then that is problem Number 3.

--

Are you having fun (you admit not)

If you are Not, then that is problem Number 4.

Onwards..
1. It's a time where that stuff is kind of interesting, but it's not the time. You should be aiming at asking Her questions, focus on Her, get her to open up to you, so you can ask more questions about Her, and Comment. If you're talking about fluffy flowers, you're sunk.

Learn To Converse, Connect.

2. As bad as this is going to seem, you got a time-limit to keep inital interest. It's a undefined time limit, variable on who she is and how you act. You must learn to make a move at the proper moments. I mean that it does not have to be perfect, where she's in your arms, but at anytime, when she's antipicating a move, don't act all stupid and wander off, just let nature take over.

Don't Wait Until It's Too Late

3. If you have a problem anywhere with this, this could be a big issue. Confidence and comfort are what you require to be able to surprise her, make her go 'Whoa! He can flirt, sighhh'.

So if you're stumbling for words, or can't touch her because she's scared or something, head to the club and play potshot with the lesser HB's.

Confidence And Comfort

4. Well, if you act bored, uninterested and like you're not having fun, there's not a chance in the world a girl will want to hang around with you. Enjoy yourself, enjoy your time with her, and make things interesting. Pick up cooking and let her cook with you, go skating and teach (or be teached). The methods of having fun are endless, and it is a vital key to keeping a girl.

Enjoy Yourself, And Her Company.

 

[bauer_23]

Are you making it seem more then just two people awkwardly sitting at a table, eating food and talking about politics, or the news, or how the flowers are nice and fluffy, and yellow?


No time with her has been akward. One thing I have gotten her to talk about is what she wants in a guy, and the like. She has defiantly opened up to me talking about her first boyfriend, losing her virginity etc.

You mention that you've gotten a few at parties. Cool! You say you've cuddled with them watching a movie. Are you making a move at all?

beyond that no. Therein likely lies my problem.


do you feel you are comfortable with girls overall, in meeting, conversing, and Flirting, at any given time.

yes, but I dont flirt as much as I should. However, its harder to flirt when she cancels plans or whenwe are out at parties and she's entertaining other guys. when my confidence is high, im agressive, when its low, im submissive ( which is now). I want to get her in an enviroment where we are alone so I can make a move , but this oppurtunity has not happened yet.


Are you having fun (you admit not)

The first few times we went out yes, but last night I did not. Lately i've been having trouble having fun at anything, but the few times i have been out with her, ive enjoyed myself.


I guess the whole point is i am unsure where I stand, and feel like I am once again going to end up where i always do. Advice thus far from this post might indicate other wise. In any event, I plan on purusing this until I get a no, than moving on.

it is difficult with confidence; where do you start when you have none at the time being? the older I get failing at these things, the more it makes me wonder why im so inept.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Forget about the one girl. You blew it already. You can't buy her interest with dinner. You sound like you don't have trouble getting new girls, so it is probably easier to just start over. Getting a new girl is probably the only thing that will make the old girl like you, but that is just a fringe benefit.

"Watching a movie" to a woman means at least making out. "Snuggling" is just kino to get to kissing to get to foreplay to get to sex, but you are the one who has to lead. Read up on the "kiss close" and just do it.

And regarding confidence, everything is what you make of it. At least you can get girls to take interest in you. That is farther than some men ever get. They would not hang around for so long waiting for you to make a move if they were not interested.

 

[Docs]

it is difficult with confidence; where do you start when you have none at the time being? the older I get failing at these things, the more it makes me wonder why im so inept.

I sense great self-doubt inside of you. You say that at times, you are the man, aggressive and confident, yet you also state you are submissive and unconfident.

Do you expect me to tell you you need confidence, when you have it inside of you? Get it out, get some manly powers going!!

Next, control your confidence. You want to be just right, not too weak, but not so macho that they wither away from you. You want to give off a vibe that you know what you are doing, and you DO IT, don't be weak and second guess.

You want her alone, yet you bring her to parties and get massed by guys? You must think smartly my friend! If you falter under competation, why do you invite it? Take her out and do something fun, teach her something. When she's learning, you gain confidence. When she thanks you with a big kiss for helping her, you get super-confidence. Grasp, control and release!

Lastly, you want to pursue until you get a no. Don't ask her to dinner, think of something super fun, like snowboarding. A dull dinner will do little to get her back, but falling down together because you accidently fell where she did on top of her.....situational awareness anyone?

Enjoy.

 

[bauer_23]

i liked the idea of skating, and think i'll pursue that instead. seeing how school is still out for a week, I believe it to be worthwhile to at least attempt next week, and move on the week after if need be.

i have so much self doubt becasue i have no experience to draw sucsess from. in sports, ive won before, so even in losing situations im calm and know that I can win, and that losing is not the end of the world. with women, I dont have the same mind set. This can casue a large variance in my confidence levels , and often does. I don't plan on quitting on trying to pursue women, but being a no- fer at 25 only makes itself worse to me.

as for the party last night, it was mostly her idea ( I shouldnt have gone after she bailed earlyer). I went along with it.

 

[Docs]

Originally posted by bauer_23
i liked the idea of skating, and think i'll pursue that instead. seeing how school is still out for a week, I believe it to be worthwhile to at least attempt next week, and move on the week after if need be.

Excellent. That's the attitude you'll require.

i have so much self doubt becasue i have no experience to draw sucsess from. in sports, ive won before, so even in losing situations im calm and know that I can win, and that losing is not the end of the world. with women, I dont have the same mind set. This can casue a large variance in my confidence levels , and often does. I don't plan on quitting on trying to pursue women, but being a no- fer at 25 only makes itself worse to me.

Not here though. You've won sports, do you remember how you were king shit, how you felt good about yourself? WIth dating, and confidence in general, it's the same kind of feelings, but not to the same degree. The confidence you'll require is the kind that lets you say to yourself that you can do this, and you do it without fear.

Don't worry about experience. In the eyes of the right female, she'll help you.

as for the party last night, it was mostly her idea ( I shouldnt have gone after she bailed earlyer). I went along with it. [/B]

Yeah...this is something else. If she bails and then you crawl back to her...that's normally a bad sign. Don't adhere to her life, make her conform to yours.

 

[cave dweller]

a smile

bauer_23,

Here are the keys you are looking for:

confidence

smile

The rest of it will fall into place when you master those two. (you must mater them)

Trust me here.

cave dweller

 

[cave dweller]

master

Sorry,

The word was master not mater----(a typo)


cave dweller

 

[MightyMate]

You seem to be kind of nerd. Who has job, friends etc, but cant use it properly. You are happy with Your normal life, but the part of it with woman isnt good at all.
Woman date You but feel there must be something wrong so they run away. Guys at Your age should have pheromons from other woman and trust me - girls feel that You are a virigin and it scares them.
My advice is for You to date easier and younger girls just to have sex, or to even visit prostitute. Thats sounds crazy, but trust me its reall gonn help. Dont You feel like a looser with beeing os old and still virigin? Not having a gf is not a problem, not havin sex is a HUGE one.
Also the thing Youi have no woman friends seems You cant deal with woman at all.

 

[bauer_23]

Originally posted by MightyMate
You seem to be kind of nerd. Who has job, friends etc, but cant use it properly. You are happy with Your normal life, but the part of it with woman isnt good at all.
Woman date You but feel there must be something wrong so they run away. Guys at Your age should have pheromons from other woman and trust me - girls feel that You are a virigin and it scares them.
My advice is for You to date easier and younger girls just to have sex, or to even visit prostitute. Thats sounds crazy, but trust me its reall gonn help. Dont You feel like a looser with beeing os old and still virigin? Not having a gf is not a problem, not havin sex is a HUGE one.
Also the thing Youi have no woman friends seems You cant deal with woman at all.

i am a nerd, but was more the case when I came to college then now. I used to stay in fri/ sat nights to do work/ play games. Obviously this isnt the case now. its not as if I don't try to make women friends, they arent exactly abundent in my major. i can only work with what I got right now.

another squandered oppurtunity throw away. I really don't know how I let myself be such a chump, but it happened. she did a good job mitigating every day I suggested we go out, so I guess thats done with.

I think the next step is a random hookup rather than anything else. i was a complete tool and basically declined sex with two girls at our last party here just so I could get that last girls #. ( they were 5's about) I don't know why I'm so stupid sometimes like that, and let the chump come back.

 

[bauer_23]

Well it would seem that this current situation is not really salvagable , barring maybe some luck. She completly mitigated my questions, which was clear indication in my mind that what was there isnt. It sucks, but in a way I am glad that this exposed what I need to do next time. must say I am dissapointed how much control I lost being a chump.

ya learn something new every day. again I appriciate the incite and posts here.

on to the next semester.

 

[MightyMate]

As a virigin how could You no have sex when You had opportunity? Prolly You were afraid. But think.. You cant stay like that for life!

 

[latebacon]

Hey Bauer,

there is a lot of good advice here.

I have a couple of things to add.

1.Don't get hung on the outcome when you're with chicks. Live in the moment. Enjoy the skating, drinks, dinner etc. without thinking about the sex. You'll relax and she'll think you're cool. You switch to sexual mode when the time is right.

2. Look up websites on female body language. Learn to read her signs. Women will try and mislead you with words but their body language won't lie. Be aware of this and you will know when to go in for the kill.

Hope this helps.

 

[bauer_23]

Originally posted by MightyMate
As a virigin how could You no have sex when You had opportunity? Prolly You were afraid. But think.. You cant stay like that for life!

becasue i had no clairvoyance and thought id be better off getting that other chcks # and trying to get somewhere with that. Desperation makes people do stupid things, and I was looking for something more long term. at the time, I thought trying to work something out that might carry over winter break would be prudent . So now outta the deal I didnt get any action, and the other chick doesnt want anything to do with me!

As for body language, I am not sure if I picked up on anything. I am pretty sure she was attracted in the early going though. Like the last few girls ive tried dating, they lose interst pretty fast and dissapear.

 

[latebacon]

Hey Bauer,

Don't get hung up on past chicks. If they're gone, they're gone. There'll be a million other chances.

Body language will tell you what the girl is thinking. If you learn the signals, you'll be able to tell both when they've lost interest by her negative signals and when she's keen by her positive ones. Trust me it doesn't lie but as it says a million times on this website, you must ACT on it when you see that chance.

Take the time and learn. It's valuable knowledge

 

[Tazman]

Bauer, I'm a 26 y/o virgin and you've made a lot more progress then me. If I had been getting as far as you I'd be on cloud nine! Yeah, as others have said all you have to do is make some moves. It's funny, I've been able to make moves such as rubbing, kissing, etc, but when it came to penetration my insecurities came to the surface.

You're out there actively dating these women and placing yourself in "position" to make moves, that's my biggest hurdle right now. Sounds like you simply have to let go and do what comes natural. Think of it like this, "there are no wrong moves" when a girl wants you sexually. I was no pro at foreplay but I was allowed to pretty much do what I wanted because these girls wanted me to do this to them and they really enjoyed it.

I didn't go all the way, which is what lead me here, but my inexperience wasn't a problem until I needed to take the foreplay to sex, which I simply didn't attempt because of my fear. Keep in mind that my inexperience didn't hinder me at all in the initial stages and probably wouldn't have mattered even if I had sexual intercourse.

I was hanging out at a friends house last night and I could've bagged a "chubby" girl but I couldn't bring myself to do it because I just.......well.....I couldn't. Don't end up like me man, start making moves like your the man, if they like you they probably won't be able to tell the difference anyway.

 

[bauer_23]

well my friends going out with that girl now. Glad to see I got played pretty well. admist my desire to really kick ass this weekend with friends out on the town, its difficult. its the middle of winter, no ones around, I live in a single room now for the semester, and even friends whom i entrusted advice to seem to work against me.

i guess its rock bottom, right now. I really hope to look back to this week/ last few months and take solace knowing life is better.