Alpha Male

[pilot0001]

I've read alot about alpha male and seen many examples in real life how they get the women.

Alpha male. Is that an attitude thing or something different? I grew up in a family where dad was the man of the house, my opinions never counted once his mind was set. Socially, I only feel comfortable taking charge if nobody else is doing it. Any advice?

Hmmmmmmm, I never thought of it. Most women (in my eyes) don't take charge. Maybe thats something I can work off of.

 

[soccerstar]

Well being an alpha male is someting you learn, me I learnt it from my father and now that I have grown up I take alot more charge in every thing I do beacuse I watched and learned from my father, and bcuz of my father that is the main reason I am so good with women.

 

[Smacktard]

In most social animals a hen picking order is established when a group of the animals is present. In a dog pack the dominant dog or pack leader is known as the alpha male.

Humans are the ultimate social animal and not surprising also establish hen-picking orders and an alpha male is usually established in any group (that has had time to form social bonds). Being the alpha male is more than just an attitude it is also the hard cold reality of who is the boss dog.

In your life you will live in many different tribes often at the same time (eg work tribe, soccer club tribe, dancing classes tribe, church tribe, university tribe, gym tribe etc). You may rise to alpha male status in one but be lowly placed in another (though generally there will be a correlation between your status in the different groups as it will depend a lot on your attitude - eg your level of aggression and willingness to compete for alpha male position).

Females in most species including humans prefer to mate with the alpha male. So it is advantageous in attracting females to convince them that you are the alpha male. Males in all animal species are aware that the alpha male is the one that gets to mate and therefore generally compete rigorously for this position.

What this means is that if you put out the signals claiming to be the alpha male in a group where your not the alpha male (in order to attract the ladies) the reigning alpha male and any other male that thinks they rank higher than you will try to put you in your place. You will either beat them and establish yourself as the new alpha male or be beaten and forced to submit and stop putting out alpha male signals.

All is not lost however for those of us who aren't really alpha males. Due to the complexity of human society we often gather in groups which meet too briefly or were the turn over of different people is so high that there is not enough time to establish who is the alpha male (and where the effort of fighting over it is not worth it because the gains are too small as the group will soon break up and you would only have to do it all again next week).

In these irregular groups you can put out all the alpha male signals you want with out being challenged (to a degree) and thus trick the females into thinking you really are the alpha male. However if the female hangs around you long enough (because you are in an LTR with her) she will eventually see you interacting in well established groups where you do have a well established ranking and if you are not really the alpha male she will notice it (and probably dump you if she realises she has seriously overestimated it).

Note that the fighting for alpha male status I am talking about is not necessarily physical (except in the lower classes) but may simply be who can give the wittiest put downs. It has a lot to do with who has the power. Note also that at work alpha male status is not necessarily the same as the official status but is often closely linked (you generally don't want to compete for alpha male status with the person who can hire/fire/promote you). Note also that just as in chimp groups where the dominant male is not necessarily the biggest male but is generally the best connected (can summon the most allies in a fight) the same is often true in human groups. Also in human groups (and other animals) a more aggressive male (higher threshold for conflict) will also often establish a higher position than a physically bigger male.

The bottom line is though that it is more than just an attitude (though that helps) but reflects a real social phenomenon. For this reason genuinely acquiring power (large muscles, lots of money, lots of authority, fame etc) helps a lot more than just trying to psyche yourself up with the right attitude.

PS: I am/or was a really shy guy but as a 250lb body builder whose has been body building for the last 16 years (can bench 370lb) it really pisses me of when some skinny little runt walks in off the street with his mate and starts putting out alpha male signals (eg shadow boxing, swearing loudly, acting like they own the place) but I am always successful at putting them in their place (purely through my own body language) after which time they stop putting out the signals (this is easy because it really does make me angry and I probably would really hit them if it continued). The point being you can only pretend to be the alpha male when you're not really the alpha male, to a point. There is no substitute for doing the hard work of really becoming an alpha male.

(Edited because I can't get it to cut and paste properly from word - I use word on long posts because its a lot of writing to lose if your post stufs up)


[This message has been edited by Smacktard (edited 10-06-2002).]

 

[donny osmond]

it really pisses me of when some skinny little runt walks in off the street with his mate and starts putting out alpha male signals (eg shadow boxing, swearing loudly, acting like they own the place)


Me too! Had'nt really noticed it but i always feel annoyed when some small **** is acting all loud. Best thing to do is stare them out. I helps that i'm 6'3.


Donny

 

[Nameless]

Nice post Smacktard, I generally agree with most of your post, I just had to bump/second it for others to see.

Some comments:

Originally posted by Smacktard

In these irregular groups you can put out all the alpha male signals you want with out being challenged (to a degree) and thus trick the females into thinking you really are the alpha male. However if the female hangs around you long enough (because you are in an LTR with her) she will eventually see you interacting in well established groups where you do have a well established ranking and if you are not really the alpha male she will notice it (and probably dump you if she realises she has seriously overestimated it).

So true.
Even in these situations though, not being a true alpha male and just 'faking' it if you will may work when there is no true alpha male present. If there is a true alpha male in the social group (albeit a temporary/short lived one), no amount of faking will hide your true status in his presence. A true alpha male doesn’t try to gain social approval, but just 'radiates' alpha maleness without consciously trying.

Note that the fighting for alpha male status I am talking about is not necessarily physical (except in the lower classes) but may simply be who can give the wittiest put downs. It has a lot to do with who has the power..... Note also that just as in chimp groups where the dominant male is not necessarily the biggest male but is generally the best connected (can summon the most allies in a fight) the same is often true in human groups. Also in human groups (and other animals) a more aggressive male (higher threshold for conflict) will also often establish a higher position than a physically bigger male.

Here I also agree, yet later you state:

PS: I am/or was a really shy guy but as a 250lb body builder whose has been body building for the last 16 years (can bench 370lb) it really pisses me of when some skinny little runt walks in off the street with his mate and starts putting out alpha male signals (eg shadow boxing, swearing loudly, acting like they own the place) but I am always successful at putting them in their place (purely through my own body language) after which time they stop putting out the signals (this is easy because it really does make me angry and I probably would really hit them if it continued).

In these situations, you are assuming that these skinny runts are not alpha males merely on their physical traits and/or actions. Isn’t this a contradiction to what you stated earlier i.e. quote 2?

I do have to mention though that in more cases than not, these 'loud skinny runts' are not alpha males, and I too find them highly annoying. I also find buffed up larger guys (not implying you Smack ) equally annoying, as they assume dominance/alpha male status merely because of their size. I have downed many a larger man who annoyed/affected me/my friends because of such assumed power/****iness - from off-duty drunk soldiers to beefed-up bouncers. So one must take a look at the other side of the annoying pseudos alpha male spectrum before being quick to judge one extreme.

And no, I am not defending the ****y runts because I am one myself, (I am a martial arts enthusiast who sort of has a slightly bulkier physique than Brad Pitt in Fight Club). I merely wish to stress my point of view/experience.

Anyway, enough of my random babbling in this huge bump of a post.

Peace.

 

[simplyme]

Smacktard, you are definitely not yet an alpha.
1.) if some random guy plays big man somewhere in some random street, a real alpha would not be bothered at all by that.
2.) You need some "items" to define yourself. Some people try to become superior by having some item that symbolizes superiority to them, be it some clothing, some membership to a club, the fact, they are drinking much/not drinking at all, some degree, your big muscles...
If you were alpha, you probably would still work on your muscles, because you like it that way. But you certainly would not use them to define yourself and your (estimated) superior role in society.

 

[Titus]

Being a "DJ" is bullshyt. Being an "alpha male" is bullshyt. Just "being" something or somebody is bullshyt.
Pilot you want to know when you will become THE "alpha male?" When you wake up from your dreaming. But ironicaly, you will not be an "alpha" then because you will have an "alpha" mindset, but because you will have no mindset at all. That is when you don't have to prove or show off anything to anybody anymore.

 

[Sting]

Perhaps my post in the Tips section would be germane to this discussion.

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30690

 

[( . )( . )]

interesting thoughts over at ASF posted by ZenDragon
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?84103,23

The ASF community has always been basing its theories, methods, techniques, and routines base on the fundamental belief that women are generally attracted to the so called ‘alpha’ male. And with that comes all these theories and ideas about what makes a guy ‘alpha’, and what a guy can do to present himself in this ‘alpha’ way in order to attract women.

WRONG

This is not how attraction works. This is only typical idiotic egoistic man thinking. Its like how men make movies about ‘alpha’ heros, acting and behaving in ways that fills MEN’S fantasies, and how they always get the girl at the end. This is the way WE like to think how women SHOULD be attracted to us. But unfortunately it’s just an illusion. It’s a lie. It’s a fantasy we created for ourselves and none of us wanted to face the obvious truth, that has always been right in front of us. We’re too busy trying to be ‘alpha’.

People don’t find each other attractive for their ‘alphaness’. That was never the reason.

Humans, are attracted to the type of person, who possesses certain qualities, character traits, personalities, values...that we lack, but desire to have.

The longest relationship I’ve ever had was 3 years. It was in college. I grow up in a broken family, I hung out with non-main stream people, and I didn’t have much family value. But it was always my desire to have grown up in a complete and loving family. And I always wanted to fit in and be part of the mainstream groups. But my upbringing shaped this outcast character in me. When I met my girlfriend (ex), she was almost the opposite of me, she had a complete family, she had strong family value, she hung out with the ‘mainstream’ people whom I sorta knew but never cared to get to know. Back then she had a history of watching movies or TV shows that involves outcast bad boys with a good heart meeting a good girl and eventually being turned into a good boy by that good girl and live happily ever after. It was a fantasy she never got to live in the environment she was in. I was a depressed bad boy, she was a happy bubbly girl. So when the 2 of us met, it was almost love of the first sight, we met for 1 week and started going out for the 3 years that this relationship lasted.

How did the relationship end? From spending time with her family I learn a lot of family values, and in those 3 year we dated my own family situation got better. I went through personal development programs and became a much more positive person. I started making friends and were more accepted in the ‘mainstream’ group. I developed all these qualities all within myself...I no longer needed her.

When I was a bad boy all the good girls find themselves attracted to me. Now my life is healthier and more positive (I quit smoking AND drinking a few years ago) I find all these party girls who have no directions in life and wish their life could be more productive wanting to be a part of my life.

You see, if a person desires to be outgoing and is not, he/she would be naturally attracted to outgoing personalities

If a person desired to get laid in high school or college and never was able to do so, he would be attracted to young girls even if he 50 (no need to raise your hands).

If a person wants to be a successful business person and isn’t yet able to do so, he/she would be attracted to that type of people.

You always see super fat women going out with super skinny guys.

Tom Cruise found himself a very tall girlfriend (Nichol Kidman)

A person will continue to be attracted to someone who possesses his/her desired character UNTIL he/she either becomes that character, or gets over it.

So what’s the point of all this?

I don’t care who you are, what you do, what you look like, how you live you life, there would ALWAYS be girls who would find you attractive. YES HOT ONES TOO!!! All you need to do is to discover them and then continue being yourself. Trying to put on or develop ‘alpha behaviors’ is ridiculous because it not only clouds up who you really are and ruin your own chances with girls who would naturally be attracted to the REAL you, even the type of girls who find ‘alpha behaviors” attractIVE will be repulsed by you, because it’s incongruent and fake. Girls are more aware and alert then you think, they pay more attention to you then you do to them.

Instead of trying to package yourself a certain way in attempt to attract ‘everyone’.

Get to know yourself, know YOU at this moment in time, and know who you’re attracted to, and know who would be attracted to you. Learn to be yourself. Then go out there and allow this natural force of attraction to happen.

"That seems too easy to be true, I’ve been myself all these years and never gotten anything"

Trust me, being someone else is easy, being yourself is hard. I don’t believe for a second any of you who have trouble getting laid are YOURSELVES when you’re around attractive girls. You must breakthrough that fear of being yourself with women. There is no other way. No methods, gimmick, routines, techniques...etc can help you. If you have a habit of turning into another person and act very differently with attractive girls than with your friends, THAT is the reason you haven’t been successful with attracting them. It’s NOT your lack of ‘skills’, it’s NOT your lack of ‘alpha behaviors’. It’s simply your fear of being yourself around girls and your unwillingness to allow the natural attraction to take its place.

 

[smokey]

GREAT POST

COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE. GREAT POST.

 

[krd]

I don't agree. It is frequently said here that the whole "just be yourself" philosophy (JBY) is nonsense. If you are naturally an alpha male, then, yeah, that rule applies. But if you are a bumbling AFC, "being yourself" isn't going to cut it.

It is true that I am never "myself" when talking to women. The reason being that if I really was myself, I wouldn't even talk to women, or anyone at all. It takes a concious effort for me to hold a conversation with someone. My natural tendency would probably be to go hide in a corner somewhere. Would this type of personality be attractive to women? Not in the slightest. So in a way, I have to put on an act every time (that is, on those occasions when I actually have the courage to do it).

That's not to say I'm successful with women. In fact, for me, it's pretty much been nothing but failure. But do you really think that by just being myself and not even bothering to say hi or look somebody in the eye, I would have a better chance? I don't.

The truth is that women are attracted to what would be considered "alpha males", or the jerks. Opposites may attract sometimes, but do you think an outgoing girl is going to have much use for a shy, pushover of a man? Would she, herself, want to possess such a personality? No, what she wants is a guy who appears to be self-assured and confident. If you don't have this or can't at least pretend to, you won't get far.

 

[Alpha King]

Zen Dragon's idea that 'opposites attracts' is heading in the right direction, but his dismissal of the alpha male theory is wrong.

Women are attracted to alpha males because alpha men ARE their exact opposites. Women are physically weak, not courageous, not dominant, and insecure. Alphas are strong, courageous, dominant, and confident.

At the end of the day, the man who has the best collection of women is the alpha male. The alpha persona is that which is most compatible with the greatest # of women. This doesn't mean betas don't get chicks too -- they get women who look past their deficiencies and like them for other reasons, such as making up for the women's own deficiencies.