When I first started into this whole "learning to get with women" thing, I didn't care too much about "deserving" it. I figured it wasn't very important...if I knew the game, I'd get the ladies.

However, as time went on in any relationship I was in, I can trace every single failure back to the feeling that I wasn't "good" enough to be with a woman like this. Sure...I could pretend to be that great guy and fool them easily enough, but in the end, I was just the same mediocre guy living a mediocre life, and I always felt like I was "putting one over" on these ladies. Almost as if they were stupid for falling for a guy as uninteresting as myself.

Lately, I've just felt really awful about doing that. And that's one of the main reasons I feel unable to approach and engage women...I don't feel like I'm worthy of them. Again, sure, I could be like every other dude out there and peacock up my mediocre self and maybe get some nookie for a date or two, but I feel like such a poseur trying to pretend I'm not a loser.

Yet something bugs me about the whole thing. During those times when I WAS "playing" these girls, I almost had MYSELF believing sometimes that I WAS that "good guy" that I felt deserved women like these. I WAS someone different.

I dunno, it's hard to describe. But it seems like there's way too much of a disconnect between the person I AM, currently...my residual self-image...and the person I NEED to be to attract women. I can go ahead and BE that person, but I feel like I'm pretending when I AM that person.

In other words, the REAL me isn't cool enough for women. Mediocre income, mediocre living conditions, mediocre lifestyle, mediocre imagination. Once these women date me for a while, they start to realize that I'm NOT this awesome character I pretend to be...and they fade away. And I guess somewhere along the line, I just got tired of it. I got tired of having to eventually disappoint everyone I initially inspired.

But then...who IS this "fake me"? If it's not a part of me, an extension of my true persona, then where did it COME from? Is it not also a creation of my consciousness? I mean, it's still ME, in its own way. I just never "identified" with that character. I never made it part of my "ego", part of my default state...because it seemed too out-of-line with my current conditions. My EXTERNAL world didn't mesh with this new persona well enough for me to identify with it, for it to BECOME me. This cool guy who all the ladies love...he wouldn't be living in a d!ck townhouse in the suburbs of a trash city like Baltimore. He wouldn't be working some bull**** cube-monkey job. He wouldn't have so few close friends.

In essence, what I OBSERVED around me made it impossible for me to BE the cool guy.

But then, this raises yet another question...if I COULD, somehow, identify with the "cool guy", with the character I created to "fool" these women, could I "fool" myself? Could I, in effect, "fool" the world around me? Could I make it start reflecting back an existence that didn't come from objective "reality", but instead was a projection of my mind? In essence, if my mind was strong enough to OVERLAY its own sensory input, it's own "empirical", "objective" evidence with my own way of thinking, could it, in fact, alter existence ITSELF? Could I BECOME that person?? Could the boring, lonely, nerdy, middle-class cube-monkey suburbanite become a sort of "Tyler Durden" just by sheer virtue of thought?

The idea is hard to grasp by someone who's spent his life worshipping empirical, objective reality. If it can't be confirmed, he says, it's more than likely a delusion. Thus, since he can't confirm his "cool guy" attitude with the evidence in the world around him, he, and the ladies he supposedly has "seduced", were all misled and delusional. He mocks them and himself for being stupid enough to believe that there was something more to this person than meets the eye.

Are you still with me?

I guess the question is how much creative say we are "allowed" to have into who we are. Is it sane for me to "decide" to be someone else? Am I a visionary, or a mental-patient? How much of "objective" reality can I reject before I've crossed the line from imagination to delusion?

Even now, am I really on the cusp of a great discovery, or am I just babbling? Have I lost my mind?

Maybe the question is how much of the so-called "frame" I'm allowed to take under my own control before I lose touch with reality. Maybe that's why I NEED the constant input from other people, need the ladies to verify constantly that I AM being who I should be, and that lack of frame control is what causes the "charade" to collapse. Or to become a "charade" in the first place, when it could have become a reality. Where a house of cards, by sheer imagination, becomes a place where someone can securely dwell and not only dwell, but THRIVE.

How many of you have actually considered this? From what do you DEFINE yourself? And how much control do you have over it, or do you dare TAKE over it, before you start to wonder if you've gone mad?

What, in your mind, makes you DESERVE the woman or women you're with? And what do you think it is that keeps them coming back, when there are so many other choices in this world?

What is it that makes you a "Don Juan"?

You cannot let women define you.

You can only hope that people don't judge you.
And if they do......you must develop the ability to forgive them.

You can only do what is the best thing for you at the time.
Your experiences have shaped you.
The more you have oibserved yourself in pleasant and difficult situations, the mor eyou kow who you really are.

And ultimately, women, upon first meeting you cannot possibly be an expert in seeing all the details, experiences, thoughts, ideas, dreams you have in your heart and soul.


Looking for extyernal validation is a key point in those who do not love themselves.

Feelings of low self worth are becasue of experiences that have ingrained themelves and attached themselves with claes into your subconscious.
But you ARE worthy.
You DO DESERVE Love and Affection.
And you must learn to love yourself and forgive yourself, and allow yourself to experience the here and now.
Even with the possibility of people judging you and not accepting you.


These things might help you:

http://doctorpaul.net/

http://www.innergametapping.com/

http://www.hypnotica.org/privatedownloads.htm

http://www.authenticmanprogram.com/index3.php

http://www.becometransformed.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0oW6DxmgFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYP0CFwTTs&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwm0bTob0fs&mode=related&search=



This is more metaphysical, but I still think you should at least watch it.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=83&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFEaJbB0SZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0M...r dating women girls seduction pick up pickup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvwK...r dating women girls seduction pick up pickup

Sounds corny.

But be in the Now.

Be your true Self.
Find who your true SElF IS.
And be that in your space.
Where ever you go, and whomever you interact with, exude YOUR "presence'.

Every where you go, it is YOUR Space.
Take up your space.
Don't apologize for who you are.
Accept that you've been through a lot, and it has shaped who you are.
In order to find out who you really are, you must observe yourself in challenging situations.
And if you fail?

How do you view this failure?

Just how you "frame" it makes all the difference.
How do you "frame" your world?

What kind of hold does that woman or girl that rejected you a long itme ago have on you now?
How long are you going to keep that monkey on your back?
When are you going to say to yourself "I'm good enough?"

Brother, I hear you. I think most men go through this thinking at one time or another. The feeling grabs at us all now and then. You must absolutely not tolerate this kind of thinking when it arises, immediately do something positive and constructive to get rid of it...in my case I'll go play guitar or work out, that usually does the trick.

Listen, you DO deserve an attractive woman! (or two or three LOL)

But, the question is, what is it about your self-esteem which is preventing you from believing you deserve this?

Are you overweight? Are you balding? Is there some other issue?

I am willing to bet money there is some issue like this preventing you from reaching your full potential of self-confidence. If so, then focus on your positive traits and work with what you got. In the case of weight, you can actually change that one.

In my case, I'm short, so that's one strike against me (and a pretty big one). It used to hurt my confidence, and I focused too much on it and didn't use my other positive traits to their fullest.

But over the years I learned to overcome this. I have managed to get attractive girls, even ones taller than I am. How? I USE WHAT NATURE GAVE ME (including my mind) TO THE MAX.

I work out religously, I have good facial features, good hair, eyes, etc. Plus I started dressing better (that's a big one), make decent money, and just as important as looks: I have no fear of women. I flirt and talk with them every chance I get! I go after them, I could care less how many times I'm "shot down" it doesn't stop me.

Despite how many of them are jaded, b*tches, etc. I still love women as a whole, I always show this when talking to them (they're just so beautiful how can I not??)

I hope this babble helps you a bit.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MVXEiYyZKcY

i posted this video before. alan watts is on my top 5 most admired people in history, i think the guy was a genuis beyond our times.

but now i'll toss my own 2 cents in to your dillema.

where you are right now is a beautiful, yet painful place. you see, right now your mind is fighting itself. there are three selves within you...

1) the social self - the self you are trying to create to fit in and be successful in the world
2) the real self - ie. who you feel you are inside (insecurities, fears, personal interests, likes and dislikes, etc.)
3) the authentic self - the REAL you. beyond society, beyond your emotions, beyond your fears. this authentic self is hidden though under 1 and 2 and all the crap that goes with those things. when you destroy 1 and 2 and find your authentic self what you will discover is that you are simply, who you are.

while this sounds like bullsh*t new age yibber yabber, its not. when you find the real you, for the first time ever in your life, you will feel alive.

now, the interesting thing is that women almost never find their authentic self. for a woman, finding their authentic self is more about finding their authentic other. this is why women define themselves by their man, and why women are seeking a man of the highest calibre (the higher his calibre, the higher they perceive their own calibre as being).

now, heres the thing. women DO have an authentic self. but its so buried because of 1 and 2. much more so than men. we drill it in to women to cover up who they are - the make up, the clothes, the praise for how they look, etc. - society twists and warps the female psyche much more than it does the male psyche.

now, is this to say a woman may never find her authentic self? not at all. but in the vast majority of cases they only find it once they have children. and the reason is that they no longer care about what society wants or even their own internal emotions - they become a mother. their authentic self is one of loving their children.

now this doesn't always happen, many women stay trapped in 1 and 2 even after having children.

but many don't. and this is why most men love their mothers as much as they do. and guess what, our mothers are NO different than the women we are talking about. the difference however is that our mothers loved us more than they even loved themselves. we only knew our mothers as their authentic selves. whereas our fathers new their 1 and 2 selves (which is why they aren't as loyal to the death to their wife as we are as their children).

this is also why men hold out sooooo much hope with regards to women. no matter how much crap we go through we keep holding out, because we know that women ARE capable of amazing amounts of love.

the thing is though that both men and women, especially during the mating stage, at typically stuck in 1 and 2. few have found their authentic selves.

and it is ONLY when you find your authentic self that you become a being unto yourself - you, in a spiritual / psychological sense - are freed from the world around you. and in that freedom, you become free to live the life you want. to love if you want to love - actually you can do more than simply love, you can become love.

anyway, i know a lot of guys on here are going to knock me for being 'philosophical' on this matter. but i do believe this is how it works.

you see, the reason we get so confused, upset, etc. is that we are always trying to keep 1 and 2 selves from drowning. they are the fragile 'us'. because you can lose your job, your girl can cheat and confirm your worst fears about yourself, etc. the 'selves' that we define ourselves as are so dependent on the environment around us that we are in a constant state of anxiety over them being damaged or destroyed.

but when you find your authentic self. when you finally know who you are, through and through. nothing can change that, nothing can hurt it, nothing can cause it pain - and it is ONLY this authentic self that is capable of experiencing true love, both in giving and receiving.

and part of the reason people get so addicted to love is the 'high' they get (which ive mentioned before in other posts) but even more importantly, it gives them a glimpse into their authentic selves.

when a man (or woman) falls in love, all the troubles of the world, of their life, all the misery of the past, the knowledge of death in the future - none of it matters. in this state a man stops thinking, stops worrying, stops wondering and he simply IS. and it is the absence of all these negative things associated with 1 and 2 selves that creates the 'high'.

the secret to life is when you find out that you can have that 'high' all the time. you don't even need a woman for it.

its called the authentic self, but you first have to destroy 1 and 2 selves first.

or maybe i'm just blowing smoke up my *ss

Some of the greates crimes of humanity were caused by those without the ability for introspection...pause...and review.



A life of externalism, materialsim, and disconnect to your SELF, to others, and to your Spiritual world leads to a life of suffering and frustration.


To grow as men we must face our darkest fears.
We must go through those things that have hurt us, and examine them. Cure them, heal them, remove them from our lives.

If not, they will reappear again and again.
And unfortunately, in relationships, especially with women, they will be there no matter what woman appears.

This is possibly why so many Men want a "submissive" type of woman.
So they feel the woman may not challenge their identity, or lack thereof, and take their men to thos e dark, hurt filled places in their psyche.

If you examin ewomen, you will have seen at some point how women disdain men who want a "weak" and "submissive" wife.
Why qould they be upset about this?

Because they feel that the man is weak.
Women want men to save them from themselves. To create the world they truly desire.
And at some point, a woman is going to stand up and test you.
They test to see how you react.
They test to see your fears and insecurities.
They test you to see if you will leave them.
Only a "strong" "REAL" man may be able to prevent the self destruction of the woman, the man, and their relationship.


How can you be a Strong, and REAL Man with so much baggage, fear, insecurity, and trauma, and unresolved issues buried uin your subconscious??

These are some very, very strong, and dark issues we as men must deal with.


If you do not deal with them.
The issues will contuinue to recur in your life.

And if you're like me, and believe in reincarnation, then you also believe that you cannot escape your self.Meaning, that no matter who you are, or where you are, in your next inccarnation, the same Damn issues will come up.
Deal with this now.

I read a story in a PUA forum where the guy recalled the conversation of a woman at a diner talking to another woman.
She said something , that the poster overheard.
She said something to the effect:
"So my mother's dying of cancer, and my husband is crying over something that pissed me off. And all I could think of was "MAN UP!!"
The man had tears in his eys crying that he upset his wife or something possibly trivial, and she is dealing with a really serious matter.

And like the original poster ofthe story said:

"Man Up."


And I add........


Men, Stand Up.

What you suffer from is simply a lack of confidence. No need to philosiphize and make it more than what it is. Keep things simple. Your lack of confidence stems from your lack of percieved achievement. You look around you, and see people your age that are more successful and it creates uncertainty within yourself. But you made a choice my friend. You chose "this" life for yourself. You have a choice to better yourself financially , mentally and physically. You choose not to, so you ask yourself "why am I not confident". True confidence is built through small achievements. It's like a house that is built brick by brick. The problem is within you but yet you choose to not to change it. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? All this mumbo jumbo crap about change your perception is only a quick fix. It is only temporary if you choose the same actions. CHANGE YOUR ACTIONS AND THEN YOUR THINKING WILL PERMANENTLY CHANGE. Be someone different and you will change your thinking. Change your life. Wake up five in the morning and do cardio. Start a new business(OPM , other people's start up money). Make new friends. Take risks. Grab your balls. Vacation. Take a girl on a first date and make her pay for the bill. Be Spontaneous. Put together a business plan of something you believe in and execute it. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT GIVE A F*CK. Life is too short. Experience it, grab your balls. Be a man. Be the guy everyone talks about ("Do you believe that guy"). You want to experience confidence tomorrow, CHANGE YOUR ACTIONS TODAY!!!!!

Listen to the guru. Been there plenty of times. Yes I been to jail too. Yes they still talk about me. Yes, i made wrong decisions. Who cares! You live and learn. But guess what , I have a great time and still have confidence.

Squirrels, you are way too much of a victim who's heavily influenced/conditioned and caught up by what this f*cked-up/backwards/distorted/sad/lost society has ingrained into your head.

Listen carefully, YOU DON'T HAVE TO IMPRESS ANYONE, ESPECIALLY A WOMAN. Who the f*ck are they that you have to impress them? You don't have to do ANYTHING for them. This once again all has to do with pedestalizing women. See how much we pedestalize them? This is why you're so insecure and posting this. I couldn't give two f*cks what ANYONE in their mother thinks of me. I am me, I am my own person, an awesome person. Who ever said, where was it ever written that you were put on this earth with requirements to make above mediocre money, to live an above mediocre lifestyle, to live in above mediocre living conditions, etc.? Furthermore, I can even get a little philosophical/existential, and say, you never chose to be here, that you were forced onto this earth, so who the hell is anyone to expect such things from you when it was never your choice or decision to be here? A man is not measured by how much he's gained materially, but by his heart. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a blind, lost fool. I feel for and pity such people.

Pull yourself out of this Matrix thinking. Live your life a good person, a fair person, a person who treats others the way you wanna be treated, and you are FINE. Work, and be hardworking, and that is all. You don't have to qualify yourself to anyone. Please remember that.

This thread f*cking rules. Nice job, boys!

I gots nothin' to say other than that which has been said here.

See, you say, "Don't worship women", and I really DON'T. They really ARE lost and un-actualized. But that doesn't give ME an excuse to be. I see their POTENTIAL, and even if they aren't "worthy" right now of me, they deserve a man who can unlock that potential and still stand in the face of it. ANY woman does. I've tried...believe me I've tried. I don't have the keys.

You say, "Be content with who you are". Contentment feels like a death sentence. I don't understand why some people don't even CARE to improve themselves, don't care to think a little deeper, act a little stronger, be a little better. Once you are "content" with who you are, there's nothing left to do but die.

It's not just the women, it's the WORLD that deserves so much better from you.

What I don't understand is EITHER side of the conundrum. On the one hand, there are the people who BECOME great, despite not BEING great...they manage to overwhelm the evidence the world throws in their face that says, "You are not great", and somehow create their own reality. Then, on the other side, there are the people who are content to not be great. And I don't understand them either, how they manage to silence the inner fire inside and be content to simply exist.

And here I am somewhere in the middle...with the motivation but not the means.

squirrels said:

You say, "Be content with who you are". Contentment feels like a death sentence. I don't understand why some people don't even CARE to improve themselves, don't care to think a little deeper, act a little stronger, be a little better. Once you are "content" with who you are, there's nothing left to do but die.

It's not just the women, it's the WORLD that deserves so much better from you.

Click to expand...

Squirrels, I've had this conversation with WestCoaster before..you really need to understand and open your eyes to something...everyone has different priorities, everyone has different levels of contentness..not everyone is the same..not everyone has the same goals and aspirations..you have to respect that. Like I said, where is it written that you must go out there and strive to gain a certain level of material wealth? All this hype and importance placed on aquiring particular levels of materialism, is a lousy social convention created by those who expect you to live up to THEIR standards. They believe that since they are so in love with the material world, that everyone else should be as well. And ya know what, f*ck that! Doesn't work that way fella. Who the f*ck are they? They should worry about themselves and what makes them happy, and leave others be, and mind their own business, and concentrate on themselves, and more importantly, get a f*ckin' life. Anyone who's gonna worry about some else's life obviously has too much time on their hands and has nothing better to do, really. Bunch of true losers. Go get lost in traffic! I don't live up to anyone's standards but MINE. I'll do what makes ME happy. So long as I harm nobody, I am fine. Don't let anyone make the rules for you, MAKE YOUR OWN.

I am currently as I speak, in the process of starting up a business and trying to start up another band with hopes of catching the interest of some record label out there. If I happen to make a lot of money with it, then cool..if not, oh f*ckin' well, I may just have to kill myself..(that was a joke/sarcasm of course). If through this business or a band I aquire the means to purchase a house, I will, sure, why not. But if I don't, and end up with the means of only able to sustain an apartment or condo, no big deal. I don't have to live up to anyone's standards, it is simply my perrogative to do what makes me content, and there's nothing wrong with that.

This is inevitable:

Understand this:

One day your going to be laid on a bed, someone may ask 'did you have a good life'?

Then after you answer the last question you die.

We all die, i think its important to understand our own morality.

What do you do with your life before that inevitable moment?

Do you worry about what others think?
Do you conform to standerds that dont suit your own?
Do you waste the few years you have left on this planet on wasted persuits of someone elses interests?
Do you sacrifice years of you life on fear, worry and regret of things you wish you could have done.

Or you do you realize your time here is like the passing of the wind across your cheek.

One day when your 60-70 you will look back on this life and say 'Fuc* i cant believe i am 70 YEARS OLD ALREADY, dam where did it all go!

It will come faster then you know it.

Hence when your 70 trust me on this you will WISH you did not have so many hang ups and fears, WISHED you treated yourself better then you are now.

Ground your confidence into what you think gives it power, some i see attribute confidence to world gains, new experiances, external sources, how you interact with others.

To me true confidence is defined in knowing who you are and accepting what that is, even if it does not conform to others around you.

When you think about this, you realize you dont have to worry or be someone else, since your universe is pritty cool for you has you are, if others dont like it, ITS THERE FUC*ING PROBLEM, not yours!

It seems to me squirrals you are fighting who you are and who you THINK you are. Simply put your expectations of the MAN you should be are in conflict and the conflict has started when you request or see yourself from what OTHERS want you to be.

Even seduction forums or any form of learning, you take what applies to YOU.

dont be someone elses hand-puppet, a guy who morphs his self to others expectations.

BE PROUD OF THE MAN YOU ARE AND YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS, no matter how small, believe you can progress in life and strive to fully UNDERSTAND what it is that DEFINES you, since when all is said and done, LIFE is about experiance, which ever way you look at it and at the end of the day, the only experiance that is worth anything when your on your death bed is YOUR OWN!

Stop being so hard on yourself, pat yourself on the back, remember all your achievments, success, good moments in your life, things you enjoy, things that make you happy and persue those things! EVEN IF others dont AGREE!

As long as when the time comes and you reflect on your life, you can look at yourself and say 'dam that was one fuc8ing wild Ride', or what ever ride you desire, since at the end of the day, the journey is coming to a stop and it will happen faster then you know.

Keep the thought in your mind that your time is limited each moment is a precious commodity that you will never get back, dont waste it on futile persuits, why worry about silly things, when all said and done in the great picture of things, they matter little if not at all!

Its easy to believe in oneself all one has to do is think of the man you will become in your old age and ask him what he thinks, since his time will come!