Are men dropping off from the dating business?

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

Plenty of women complaining in their ridicolous tiktok videos and as many doing the same on youtube.

I'm a middle aged men so I'm not aware of what people in their 20s is up to yet reading and listening online as much as in real life make it seems to me that there is some truth behind it.

At first I agreed that top shelf guys simply had no reason to and that women were all over that top 10% while ignoring the rest of the men but now it really seems even the upper average guy left the table despite having a shot.

I often see tables made of women only in bars and restaurants while 20 years ago it was impossible to consider a decent looking girl (humanoid form) that didnt have someone taking her out or giving any attention to her.

I notice a certain "fatigue" and general exhaustion from most men not just when it comes of marriage (which is a failed institution for millennials and zoomers) but even conventional dating or investing anything more than few quids with a temporal horizon of 2 hours max.

Long term dating and pre planning is disappearing as much as effort/investment.
Even dating apps are collapsing while the club scene is a wasteland.

What do you think?

Personally I'm not surprised about this outcome, I'm surprised it didnt happen earlier.

 

[characternote]

I guess a lot of is it down to what you see in your own life and our experiences will differ.

Personally, I still feel like a lot of young people are dating. I don't feel like there's been a drastic drop off where I live or amongst my younger cousins and neices and nephews etc. Maybe a small decline at most?

The bigger difference I see is the hookup culture and nightlife being absolutely decimated .

There's certainly still nightlife where I live, and there's tonnes of very hot 18-22 year old girls going out, but the interactions between the sexes is nothing like I remember it being when I was young. It was full of 'mingling'. Cold approaching. Flirting. Groups interacting with other groups etc

When I go out now, it's as if groups of hot girls get all dolled up and look gorgeous, but they just stay in their own little group. The have no interest in meeting anyone. It's just small groups of guys and girls, super closed off in different areas of the bars

And the guys almost never ever approach. (admittedly i'm in Europe and it's probably fair to say that there's always been a stronger cold approach culture in the US compared to much of the world, but it seems even more extreme). On the rare occasions guys approach, it's like 100% an approach on a girl who literally ignores him like he's speaking another language, or shoes him away like he stinks of old cheese lol (extreme rare exceptions being it's a super good looking dude of course). I do think social media has probably made them super selective adn changed the game a bit

I think guys have accepted defeat when it comes to cold approach at least. And guys know that tinder is of course the same. And so I can only assume all of the dating is happening through mutual friends and social activities and college/work

 

[Clockwerk50]

I guess a lot of is it down to what you see in your own life and our experiences will differ.

Personally, I still feel like a lot of young people are dating. I don't feel like there's been a drastic drop off where I live or amongst my younger cousins and neices and nephews etc. Maybe a small decline at most?

The bigger difference I see is the hookup culture and nightlife being absolutely decimated .

There's certainly still nightlife where I live, and there's tonnes of very hot 18-22 year old girls going out, but the interactions between the sexes is nothing like I remember it being when I was young. It was full of 'mingling'. Cold approaching. Flirting. Groups interacting with other groups etc

When I go out now, it's as if groups of hot girls get all dolled up and look gorgeous, but they just stay in their own little group. The have no interest in meeting anyone. It's just small groups of guys and girls, super closed off in different areas of the bars

And the guys almost never ever approach. (admittedly i'm in Europe and it's probably fair to say that there's always been a stronger cold approach culture in the US compared to much of the world, but it seems even more extreme). On the rare occasions guys approach, it's like 100% an approach on a girl who literally ignores him like he's speaking another language, or shoes him away like he stinks of old cheese lol (extreme rare exceptions being it's a super good looking dude of course). I do think social media has probably made them super selective adn changed the game a bit

I think guys have accepted defeat when it comes to cold approach at least. And guys know that tinder is of course the same. And so I can only assume all of the dating is happening through mutual friends and social activities and college/work

In my experience, where I’m at, the women who go out to clubs, trendy restaurants, or events together usually already have a man or a steady hookup on the side. When I try to present myself in these situations, it often feels like I’m facing a jury that isn’t on my side.

On the other hand, the women who stay home on weekends, still travel with their parents, or don’t have a big social circle tend to be more average-looking but are often still available.

 

[Slowhandluke]

mid 20's people are dating... but dating and being with a girl isnt cool as it use to be. Beautiful women (most young girls are beautiful) expect the world.. young men who are able to date, dont expect the women to be loyal (they see the divorce, the cheating, etc.). And if they are chad, they are tired of superficial sex... all in all, women wanted to be more like men.... and men arent chivalrous to other men (holding doors, etc.)

30's people are not dating that much... They have been to the rodeo/circus - the metoo movement, false accusations, high body count, Yolo, etc...

40s+ Most women are not actively dating. they are not getting the same attention. only high value men are dating. however, the more "high valuable" the man, the odds are higher he's dating younger.

 

[corrector]

Guess everyone else is catching up to me then.

 

[viking22]

Part of it is I think the basic logic that as people spend far more of their lives online they engage in offline activities such as dating a lot less. Especially as a lot of the female needs such as attention and validation can be met through social media and dating apps. Plus women can engage in smoke and mirrors way more effectively online than they can offline layering on filters and flattering camera angles to makeup. That results in attention from much hotter men than they deserve and delusional thinking.

I think it is also a part of the societal message that it is OK for women to be single. Their friends are also single and that creates female solidarity and they have girl groups and travel together, dine together, drink together so they don't get so lonely that they feel motivated to settle to find a reliable boyfriend.

Dating apps/social media also provide anonymity which makes it easier for them to hook up without being judged by their friends. So their sexual needs are being taken care of without needing to go through the ritual of dating. I am seeing instead women viewing dating far more as a way to score free dinners and a lot of the girls on the apps basically say if you want a date with me you have to make a reservation for two at a fancy restaurant with the implication of course the guy is expected to pay.

Honestly I think men often have more of a need to be in a relationship these days than women and a lot are happy to date down to achieve that. Of course this just exarcebates the problem.

 

[OngBak]

No, I dont think so, when woman talk about that they are usually referring to higher tier men

 

[Hoodie]

Plenty of women complaining in their ridicolous tiktok videos and as many doing the same on youtube.

I'm a middle aged men so I'm not aware of what people in their 20s is up to yet reading and listening online as much as in real life make it seems to me that there is some truth behind it.

At first I agreed that top shelf guys simply had no reason to and that women were all over that top 10% while ignoring the rest of the men but now it really seems even the upper average guy left the table despite having a shot.

I often see tables made of women only in bars and restaurants while 20 years ago it was impossible to consider a decent looking girl (humanoid form) that didnt have someone taking her out or giving any attention to her.

I notice a certain "fatigue" and general exhaustion from most men not just when it comes of marriage (which is a failed institution for millennials and zoomers) but even conventional dating or investing anything more than few quids with a temporal horizon of 2 hours max.

Long term dating and pre planning is disappearing as much as effort/investment.
Even dating apps are collapsing while the club scene is a wasteland.

What do you think?

Personally I'm not surprised about this outcome, I'm surprised it didnt happen earlier.

No wonder alot of the top guys probably want stable longterm relationships also. And this mess makes it hard for them too, because there is always another top guy if things don't go silky smooth.

 

[Travel memoir21]

Plenty of women complaining in their ridicolous tiktok videos and as many doing the same on youtube.

I'm a middle aged men so I'm not aware of what people in their 20s is up to yet reading and listening online as much as in real life make it seems to me that there is some truth behind it.

At first I agreed that top shelf guys simply had no reason to and that women were all over that top 10% while ignoring the rest of the men but now it really seems even the upper average guy left the table despite having a shot.

I often see tables made of women only in bars and restaurants while 20 years ago it was impossible to consider a decent looking girl (humanoid form) that didnt have someone taking her out or giving any attention to her.

I notice a certain "fatigue" and general exhaustion from most men not just when it comes of marriage (which is a failed institution for millennials and zoomers) but even conventional dating or investing anything more than few quids with a temporal horizon of 2 hours max.

Long term dating and pre planning is disappearing as much as effort/investment.
Even dating apps are collapsing while the club scene is a wasteland.

What do you think?

Personally I'm not surprised about this outcome, I'm surprised it didnt happen earlier.

I think there’s a subculture of Female incels being made somewhere . They just got to get back and in tune with their natural femininity in order to attract the right guy.

 

[BaronOfHair]

This was already "a problem"* back in The 2000s, if not earlier, when video games and 24hr cable made it possible to retreat into fantasy worlds fairly easily. It's become easier over the following decades


*"Problem" is really a misnomer... We're all, in theory anyway, free people under The Constitution. That means folks are free to engage in activities aside from dating and mating, if they so choose

 

[corrector]

This was already "a problem"* back in The 2000s, if not earlier, when video games and 24hr cable made it possible to retreat into fantasy worlds fairly easily. It's become easier over the following decades


*"Problem" is really a misnomer... We're all, in theory anyway, free people under The Constitution. That means folks are free to engage in activities aside from dating and mating, if they so choose

There was so much being hammered about AIDS, safe sex, and how degenerate teens and young adults were getting in terms of having too much sex. That is not the same narrative compared to today. They had pushed condoms/safe sex very hard. It's ironic today since STD/STIs have not disappeared since the 80/90s, treatment for it is better perhaps than back in the day, but still, the lived in experience during those times was to avoid unsafe sex.

Think of it this way, 40 year old virgin was a hit movie in 2005 because it sounded rare or something went wrong, or this would not be interesting. Can you really imagine a movie like that being released today? Even Children of Men (2006) was good science fiction prophecy (ie a movie about declining birthrate to the point of population collapse), looks like a fantasy movie back when it was released but more ominous if viewed today.

It would be 90/00s fantasy to think of a day we are living, with more sexlessless to the point its a social narrative with such a crazy promotion of safe sex. It would mean nobody had to worry about safe sex if nobody was having sex in the first place - so it was not a problem then.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

There was so much being hammered about AIDS, safe sex, and how degenerate teens and young adults were getting in terms of having too much sex. That is not the same narrative compared to today. They had pushed condoms/safe sex very hard. It's ironic today since STD/STIs have not disappeared since the 80/90s, treatment for it is better perhaps than back in the day, but still, the lived in experience during those times was to avoid unsafe sex.

Think of it this way, 40 year old virgin was a hit movie in 2005 because it sounded rare or something went wrong, or this would not be interesting. Can you really imagine a movie like that being released today? Even Children of Men (2006) was good science fiction prophecy (ie a movie about declining birthrate to the point of population collapse), looks like a fantasy movie back when it was released but more ominous if viewed today.

It would be 90/00s fantasy to think of a day we are living, with more sexlessless to the point its a social narrative with such a crazy promotion of safe sex. It would mean nobody had to worry about safe sex if nobody was having sex in the first place - so it was not a problem then.

Sometimes they are no prophecies, sometimes those who make the movies decide also the policies and their effect on society.

Wait for palantir to pull a minority report on political dissidents.

 

[Solomon]

Plenty of women complaining in their ridicolous tiktok videos and as many doing the same on youtube.

I'm a middle aged men so I'm not aware of what people in their 20s is up to yet reading and listening online as much as in real life make it seems to me that there is some truth behind it.

At first I agreed that top shelf guys simply had no reason to and that women were all over that top 10% while ignoring the rest of the men but now it really seems even the upper average guy left the table despite having a shot.

I often see tables made of women only in bars and restaurants while 20 years ago it was impossible to consider a decent looking girl (humanoid form) that didnt have someone taking her out or giving any attention to her.

I notice a certain "fatigue" and general exhaustion from most men not just when it comes of marriage (which is a failed institution for millennials and zoomers) but even conventional dating or investing anything more than few quids with a temporal horizon of 2 hours max.

Long term dating and pre planning is disappearing as much as effort/investment.
Even dating apps are collapsing while the club scene is a wasteland.

What do you think?

Personally I'm not surprised about this outcome, I'm surprised it didnt happen earlier.

If you're a top dude you don't even have to date if you know how to play your cards right, just use dating apps and have girls come to your place, etc.

I got a buddy who is a "Tyrone" hasn't taken a girl out on a date since 2019 but they come his house regularly, usually girls that are 5-7s. The messages he gets from women who are DTF are ridiculous. I'm sure he could pull hotter but for him, his rule is "I don't take women on dates unless I banged them first."

 

[Slowhandluke]

If you're a top dude you don't even have to date if you know how to play your cards right, just use dating apps and have girls come to your place, etc.

I got a buddy who is a "Tyrone" hasn't taken a girl out on a date since 2019 but they come his house regularly, usually girls that are 5-7s. The messages he gets from women who are DTF are ridiculous. I'm sure he could pull hotter but for him, his rule is "I don't take women on dates unless I banged them first."

Tyrone sleeping arround is no longer a rarity... its almost, not cool anymore. in the past, men would be impressed (even though they looked down on cads), now its like, "so what".. its ridiculous... but "who cares?"..

 

[Solomon]

Tyrone sleeping arround is no longer a rarity... its almost, not cool anymore. in the past, men would be impressed (even though they looked down on cads), now its like, "so what".. its ridiculous... but "who cares?"..

You're missing the point, how many men have the skillset or ability to get women to come straight to their house consistently? I didn't post this to impress people, but it's illuminating to see men who can do this consistently or my other friend who went on 25 dates a month. Averages 10-20 matches a day etc.

We have a lot of guys on this forum who struggle and there is another side, that's all I'm saying

 

[corrector]

If you're a top dude you don't even have to date if you know how to play your cards right, just use dating apps and have girls come to your place, etc.

I got a buddy who is a "Tyrone" hasn't taken a girl out on a date since 2019 but they come his house regularly, usually girls that are 5-7s. The messages he gets from women who are DTF are ridiculous. I'm sure he could pull hotter but for him, his rule is "I don't take women on dates unless I banged them first."

But that's why guys think these same women are undatable or not relationship worthy. If a looksmatch of those girls are either going to be ignored, or they are going to "settle" with these guys, after they have levelled up, built something for themselves. The Tyrones, Chads, Chadlites have really taken these women out of the dating market and ruined them when they should have been putting together famlies/housholds.

The problem is these "top dudes" don't bother going for hotter women because they can't be bothered gaming.

Well congrats for being part of the overall population collapse and giving guys the green light to opt out altogether. You can't even blame average guys (ie majority who are opting out, etc..) for holding out for really hot girls becuase it's all the average-looking girls who are doing that. Why would any sane guy take such a girl out on a date if she's taking the initiative to hook-up and do whatever she wants?

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

"I don't take women on dates unless I banged them first."

Your friend has a very solid rules which I share.

But it's not about being cheap or lazy, it's about assisting genuine attraction and reward commitment from their side.

 

[corrector]

You're missing the point, how many men have the skillset or ability to get women to come straight to their house consistently? I didn't post this to impress people, but it's illuminating to see men who can do this consistently or my other friend who went on 25 dates a month. Averages 10-20 matches a day etc.

We have a lot of guys on this forum who struggle and there is another side, that's all I'm saying

Skillset and ability? Yeah right....what you mean is how many men do you know have won the genetic lottery?

 

[characternote]

how many men have the skillset or ability to get women to come straight to their house consistently?

it's extremely easy if you are her type tbh lol.

edit: I was talking to someone on seddit earlier who was talking about what a slayer he is (150 lays per year. Models. blablabla) and how he's 'advanced' and has a special skillset. When I pushed him on details and what his approach looks like he basically said 'I just say hi. I try to get a convo going and ask them some questions about themselves. Then I either get their IG (and then she comes round to bang after I DM her a few days later), or I just escalate on her that night and go for the same night lay'

It's like, "skillset?!" - everyone wants to believe that they are doing something special lol. This guy was running 'basic social exchange' game basically lol. Nothing that 99% of men can't do. If you've ever made a friend in your life, you can do what he done ("skillset") - But most men, with some young model, would never get the IG. The attraction. The lay, doing what he done. Nothing he actually 'done' lead to his success

 

[plumber]

part of this is viewpoint. the lens you look through. as you change your lens gets older....

for example: when you first enter a new social circle. notice how all of a sudden they are everywhere... but before you entered they are invisible. the wheel is still turning.