single mommy: "The only men that are going up to women and approaching them ... are UGLY"

[MatureDJ]

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Nah, I disagree with that brawd.

Men aren't approaching women, not because of FOBC, but because they are afraid of REJECTION.

Period.

Men suffer from approach anxiety, because they know that rejection is an impeding harsh reality...and they'd rather walk 2 miles barefooted on shatter glass, than approach an attractive woman at a supermarket.

Period.

The other thang she said, "the only men going up and approaching women are ugly".

Well, ugly according to who?

And second, I thought she had just said that men don't approach because they suffer from FOBC?

Ohh, so the "ugly" men do not suffer from FOBC, but the "hot" and handsome guys do?

So, the ugly guys are more confident than the "hot" guys?

Airhead brawd.

 

[characternote]

and they'd rather walk 2 miles barefooted on shatter glass, than approach an attractive woman at a supermarket.

this is kinda true and something I noticed many years ago. On nights out, even in BARS (a social setting) here in the UK, it's amazing how infrequently you see someone cold approach. 5 stunning girls will be at a little table in a bar all night without being approached. (for some reason I assume this wouldn't be the case in the US but could be wrong). And so cold approach in the DAY is literally unheard of and just reserved for PUA's (coaches/students) in central London. I don't think any really hot girl I know have ever been cold approached in the day lol. Even the ones that are like 40. They've only ever really been approached at night and usually just on the dancefloor (if you cna call a guy appearing behind her and trying to grind on her to see if she's interested or not an 'approach' lol)

As you say, it's mostly a fear thing. You can meet a guy in a bar through a friend and get chatting. You realise he's a boss. He holds meetings with 30 employees daily. Manages people. He comes across as extremely confident! Loud, confident speaking voice. Great presence and body language. But if some stunning 19 year old is across the bar there's NOTHING that would give him the balls to go and try to hit on her lol. He'll just talk about how hot she is (partly why i've always said that 'confidence' doesn't necessariyl translate to success with women at all. I have a very similar story about my ex boss. Extremely confident guy. Noticeably so. But on work nights out, it was always the semi-shy really good looking mechanic who got all the girls lol)

As for the thing about 'only ugly guys approach me' I'm not sure what to make about that. I guess one would argue that all the good looking guys don't need to cold approach! They have unlimited options on tinder, lots of hot girls they're speaking too, fvck buddies etc. They don't want to risk an awkward rejection! And the ugly guys have nothing going on and so are 'forced' to try their luck! (Not saying any of that is the 'reason' btw. Just trying to find an angle for her claim)

 

[SW15]

I disagree with that brawd......Airhead brawd.

Men aren't approaching women, not because of FOBC, but because they are afraid of REJECTION.

I also disagree with that woman AND for the same reason that you identify.

Men are less concerned with the perception of being creepy (FOBC) and more concerned with the emotional impact of taking a rejection.

Men are taking more rejections now due to female abundance and much higher female standards now than in the past. Women are now rejecting a larger percentage of men because of their perceived abundance and also men are getting less tolerant of rejections than they may have been in the past. The typical man now doesn't want to take the rejections that a typical 1990s bar approacher guy took.

Approaching strangers has been a low percentage play for decades, even in bars.

Men suffer from approach anxiety, because they know that rejection is an impeding harsh reality...and they'd rather walk 2 miles barefooted on shatter glass, than approach an attractive woman at a supermarket.

I agree that men suffer from approach anxiety.

Men will make the approaches but making the approaching and taking a rejection is traumatic. Too many rejections and a man can become traumatized into inaction.

On nights out, even in BARS (a social setting) here in the UK, it's amazing how infrequently you see someone cold approach. 5 stunning girls will be at a little table in a bar all night without being approached.

Similar things are happening in large cities in the USA. In my home city (one of the 10 largest in the USA), there are few bars where approaching happens regularly.

And so cold approach in the DAY is literally unheard of and just reserved for PUA's (coaches/students) in central London. I don't think any really hot girl I know have ever been cold approached in the day lol. Even the ones that are like 40. They've only ever really been approached at night and usually just on the dancefloor (if you cna call a guy appearing behind her and trying to grind on her to see if she's interested or not an 'approach' lol)

In my home city, non-bar approaching is even less common than bar approaching. In general, non-bar approaching has always been less common than bar approaching.

As for the thing about 'only ugly guys approach me' I'm not sure what to make about that. I guess one would argue that all the good looking guys don't need to cold approach! They have unlimited options on tinder, lots of hot girls they're speaking too, fvck buddies etc. They don't want to risk an awkward rejection! And the ugly guys have nothing going on and so are 'forced' to try their luck! (Not saying any of that is the 'reason' btw. Just trying to find an angle for her claim)

If a man is good enough looking, he is able to generate enough interest on swipe apps. Only about 10% of men are able to use swipe apps effectively, but a lot of men try their luck on swipe apps and hope to be part of that 10% who can effectively use swipe apps to get regular sex.

Why would a guy risk an in-person rejection when he has plenty of options available to him via the swipe apps or possibly Instagram DMs?

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I also disagree with that woman AND for the same reason that you identify.

Men are less concerned with the perception of being creepy (FOBC) and more concerned with the emotional impact of taking a rejection.

And with good reason.

Rejection is tremendous damage to a man's pride, ego, and self esteem. All that good ****.

The thing is; you don't have to like rejection, just don't become fearful of it.

That's what ARC said..and he's been rejected hundreds of times.

"No, I don't like rejection, but I don't fear it".

Approaching strangers has been a low percentage play for decades, even in bars.

Depends what your standard of low is.

I agree that men suffer from approach anxiety.

Men will make the approaches but making the approaching and taking a rejection is traumatic. Too many rejections and a man can become traumatized into inaction.

But rejections can come in many different facets.

Even online dating, if a chick leaves your message on read, she rejected you.

If you see a chick visited your page but didn't reach out, she rejected you.

Guys don't mind those rejections, because those rejections aren't up close & personal, they're not in your face, when lessens the sting.

I actually prefer the sting, not because I like it, but because it makes my successes so much more special.

"Sunny days wouldn't be special, if it wasn't for rain".

"Joy wouldn't feel so good, if it wasn't for pain".

-50 Cent

When you're out there in the field and putting in the work, you're susceptible to things not going your way.

Big deal. That's life.

Get the f over it.

Why would a guy risk an in-person rejection when he has plenty of options available to him via the swipe apps or possibly Instagram DMs?

Because..

1. He ain't smashing every chick that he's "matching" with on swipe apps.

2. Since #1 is true, he'll still be dealing with attention *****s and chicks that are bull****ting.

3. Since #1 is true, he'll still need a larger pot pick from, thus more options.

4. Every woman don't use swipe apps, so he's missing out on opportunities with chicks that may be interested in him but aren't on those apps.

5. With cold approach, he'll stand out from the rest of the guys that are too puzzy to cold approach. With OLD, you're competing against thousands of other puzzy ass guys that are all up in her DM's.

With cold approach, you're only competing against yourself...because 9/10, you're the only one playing that game.

 

[SW15]

Even online dating, if a chick leaves your message on read, she rejected you.

If you see a chick visited your page but didn't reach out, she rejected you.

Guys don't mind those rejections, because those rejections aren't up close & personal, they're not in your face, when lessens the sting.

While each individual rejection done from a tech method (indirect, not face-to-face) stings less, the collective rejections from hundreds to thousands of women behind an electronic screen can hurt a man's self image. Remember that the typical man matches with less than 1% of his right swipes. He only gets to go on a date with a smaller percentage of his swipe app matches.

1. He ain't smashing every chick that he's "matching" with on swipe apps.

Impossible to do, even for top tier men (aka 'Chads'). Top tier men have enough abundance that they aren't concerned about that.

Every woman don't use swipe apps, so he's missing out on opportunities with chicks that may be interested in him but aren't on those apps.

Every man is going to miss some opportunities. It's impossible for a man to be everywhere and interact with every available woman on the market in his city. If he doesn't use swipe apps, he is missing opportunities. If he's not sending DMs on Instagram, he's missing some opportunities. The man is limited in real life interactions to the women at the venues (bar and non-bar) that he shows up to at the times when he shows up to those venues.

With cold approach, he'll stand out from the rest of the guys that are too puzzy to cold approach. With OLD, you're competing against thousands of other puzzy ass guys that are all up in her DM's.

With cold approach, you're only competing against yourself...because 9/10, you're the only one playing that game.

I partially agree. Fewer men are willing to approach strangers when they are single and needing to meet new women.

Women are getting approached enough in person. Although real life approaching is decreasing, women are still getting approached in real life. There are still enough real life approachers out there.

 

[GoodMan32]

While each individual rejection done from a tech method (indirect, not face-to-face) stings less, the collective rejections from hundreds to thousands of women behind an electronic screen can hurt a man's self image. Remember that the typical man matches with less than 1% of his right swipes. He only gets to go on a date with a smaller percentage of his swipe app matches.



Impossible to do, even for top tier men (aka 'Chads'). Top tier men have enough abundance that they aren't concerned about that.



Every man is going to miss some opportunities. It's impossible for a man to be everywhere and interact with every available woman on the market in his city. If he doesn't use swipe apps, he is missing opportunities. If he's not sending DMs on Instagram, he's missing some opportunities. The man is limited in real life interactions to the women at the venues (bar and non-bar) that he shows up to at the times when he shows up to those venues.



I partially agree. Fewer men are willing to approach strangers when they are single and needing to meet new women.

Women are getting approached enough in person. Although real life approaching is decreasing, women are still getting approached in real life. There are still enough real life approachers out there.

I can only speak for myself (and I fully admit my lived experience isn't the same as everyone's)

After that Tinder discussion I posted a screenshot of on the forum back in June, I haven't had any Tinder discussions since then (and I've only had a few likes on Tinder since then). Despite living in a city where there are thousands and thousands of local gals on Tinder.

Being largely ignored on Tinder really hasn't done any damage at all to my self-esteem. Facing even one in-person rejection from a woman I genuinely thought wanted me would do way more damage to my self-esteem than being ignored by thousands and thousands of strangers on Tinder.

As for the general topic of the thread, for me it's mainly FOBC that would stop me from cold-approaching a woman I don't know in public. Since I don't know her (and am unlikely to ever cross paths with her again), rejection really wouldn't faze me.

Hell, I wish rejection was the worst that could happen from cold-approaching a stranger. If rejection was my only worry about cold-approaching a woman in public, I'd cold-approach all the time.

Also related to the general topic of the thread, a similar phenomenon I've heard is a woman complaining about the fact only d1cks approach her. Here's why only d1cks approach: Because the internet has been flooded with articles galore (written by new age feminists) telling men "NEVER approach a woman. If a woman is into you, she'll throw herself at you."

What do you think ends up happening when men see enough of those articles? Obviously the good/respectful men will listen. D1cks, on the other hand, don't give a damn whether a feminist wants to be approached; he'll approach anyway. That's why we end up with the scenario many a woman complains about (only getting approached by d1cks, while the good/respectful men refrain from approaching)

 

[SW15]

FOBC

FOBC is generally nonsense. Being labeled a creep by an unknown woman is irrelevant. She's not likely to publicly label a man as a creep on the internet where it is searchable by his name. The majority of creep labeling only happens in a woman's mind or possibly on the internet in an anonymous, non-searchable way.

being ignored by thousands and thousands of strangers on Tinder.

Being ignored by thousands of strangers on Tinder/other swipe apps isn't that meaningful. The individual male could get traumatized from putting in loads of efforts to swiping and not arranging real life dates.

In general, something that happens in real time/real life is more meaningful than something that happens not in real time and via technology.

Also related to the general topic of the thread, a similar phenomenon I've heard is a woman complaining about the fact only d1cks approach her. Here's why only d1cks approach: Because the internet has been flooded with articles galore (written by new age feminists) telling men "NEVER approach a woman. If a woman is into you, she'll throw herself at you."

What do you think ends up happening when men see enough of those articles? Obviously the good/respectful men will listen. D1cks, on the other hand, don't give a damn whether a feminist wants to be approached; he'll approach anyway. That's why we end up with the scenario many a woman complains about (only getting approached by d1cks, while the good/respectful men refrain from approaching)

This happens.

When a woman complains "Where have all the good men gone?", it's nonsense. There are plenty of good men out there. Most good men are being ignored in daygame venues, ignored in bars, and ignored on the swipe apps and in the DMs.

With some real life approaches, there are women who will be fielding approaches from men that they don't desire. I don't think women are excited to field these approaches. They want to be approached by above average/elite men, not ordinary men.

 

[GoodMan32]

FOBC is generally nonsense. Being labeled a creep by an unknown woman is irrelevant. She's not likely to publicly label a man as a creep on the internet where it is searchable by his name. The majority of creep labeling only happens in a woman's mind or possibly on the internet in an anonymous, non-searchable way.



Being ignored by thousands of strangers on Tinder/other swipe apps isn't that meaningful. The individual male could get traumatized from putting in loads of efforts to swiping and not arranging real life dates.

In general, something that happens in real time/real life is more meaningful than something that happens not in real time and via technology.



This happens.

When a woman complains "Where have all the good men gone?", it's nonsense. There are plenty of good men out there. Most good men are being ignored in daygame venues, ignored in bars, and ignored on the swipe apps and in the DMs.

With some real life approaches, there are women who will be fielding approaches from men that they don't desire. I don't think women are excited to field these approaches. They want to be approached by above average/elite men, not ordinary men.

Right, unless we're so over the top she films us (and posts the video online), it's unlikely our creepiness will get our reputation destroyed on the internet.

For the record, I'm not afraid of being so over-the-top creepy I get filmed.

I'm more afraid of my autism causing me to unknowingly do a run-of-the-mill creepy thing. On autism-related online communities, many male autists have pointed out the risk of getting swarmed/brutalized by every man in the vicinity if our autism causes us to unknowingly do a run-of-the-mill creepy thing in a cold approach.

On the topic of a woman wanting an elite man, it's true that the typical woman is only attracted to 20% of men. The good news, however, is: That 20% is different for every woman.

For example, a biker chick might be incredibly turned on by a rough-around-the-edges man with a Harley and a horseshoe mustache, while thinking Tom Brady is too clean-cut.

On the other hand, an upper middle class preppy woman will be incredibly attracted to Tom Brady, while being repulsed by the Harley guy.

So it's luckily not as simple as "if you're below an 8/10 on the looks scale, you're SOL"

Unless a guy is extremely hideous, there's a woman out there who's into his appearance.

 

[SW15]

For example, a biker chick might be incredibly turned on by a rough-around-the-edges man with a Harley and a horseshoe mustache, while thinking Tom Brady is too clean-cut.

On the other hand, an upper middle class preppy woman will be incredibly attracted to Tom Brady, while being repulsed by the Harley guy.

One of my male friends is a 6'4" White male (Tom Brady is also a 6'4" White male) who was an competitive collegiate athlete in a country club sport. He had zero chance of going pro in that sport. He did use his former collegiate athlete status to attract women. This is part of how he put up a triple digit notch count prior to marriage.

When I think about his seduction achievements prior to his marriage, it's important to mention that he had a specific type of woman he did well with and he marketed well to those women. He understood that his look would be most attractive with bougie White women. Between his degree, white collar job, collegiate athlete past, height, and good physique/facial aesthetics, he was very appealing to bougie White women. He focused on going to bars where bougie White women tended to congregate. He was able to get more same night sex than extended relationships with this type of effort.

He didn't seduce much on personality and technique. His verbal openers were unimpressive. He seduced mainly on looks (6'4" height, good facial aesthetics, and being in shape) and status (former collegiate athlete in a country club sport).

I'm more afraid of my autism causing me to unknowingly do a run-of-the-mill creepy thing.

Creepy is an overused word, mainly by privileged White women.

The video below is a good example of what might be perceived as creepy. Two men say exactly the same thing. One is considered creepy and the other is considered appealing. Men who are called creepy are often called creepy due to lackluster more looks than anything.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[zekko]

this is kinda true and something I noticed many years ago. On nights out, even in BARS (a social setting) here in the UK, it's amazing how infrequently you see someone cold approach. 5 stunning girls will be at a little table in a bar all night without being approached.

Maybe they aren't so afraid of the rejection, but they think some other guys might resent them approaching the girls, and decide to beat the crap out of him for it.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Men don’t approach because approaching strangers, male or female, isn’t the norm for meeting anyone.

Hardly any couples formed from approaching. This is something the RP psycho Sartain gets right.

 

[SW15]

Men don’t approach because approaching strangers, male or female, isn’t the norm for meeting anyone.

Hardly any couples formed from approaching. This is something the RP psycho Sartain gets right.

Here's more information for those curious on your reference to Michael Sartain....

Michael Sartain: Approaching Strangers is Dead

For those unaware, Michael Sartain is Rollo Tomassi's co-host on the Access Vegas podcast. In this video, Michael Sartain claims that approaching strangers in real life does not result in sex and extended relationships with attractive women ages 18-24. The only way Sartain claims that...

www.sosuave.net

 

[GoodMan32]

Maybe they aren't so afraid of the rejection, but they think some other guys might resent them approaching the girls, and decide to beat the crap out of him for it.

Along the lines of what I said about the risk of getting swarmed/brutalized by every man in the vicinity if I unknowingly do something socially inept when approaching a woman.

 

[GoodMan32]

One of my male friends is a 6'4" White male (Tom Brady is also a 6'4" White male) who was an competitive collegiate athlete in a country club sport. He had zero chance of going pro in that sport. He did use his former collegiate athlete status to attract women. This is part of how he put up a triple digit notch count prior to marriage.

When I think about his seduction achievements prior to his marriage, it's important to mention that he had a specific type of woman he did well with and he marketed well to those women. He understood that his look would be most attractive with bougie White women. Between his degree, white collar job, collegiate athlete past, height, and good physique/facial aesthetics, he was very appealing to bougie White women. He focused on going to bars where bougie White women tended to congregate. He was able to get more same night sex than extended relationships with this type of effort.

He didn't seduce much on personality and technique. His verbal openers were unimpressive. He seduced mainly on looks (6'4" height, good facial aesthetics, and being in shape) and status (former collegiate athlete in a country club sport).



Creepy is an overused word, mainly by privileged White women.

The video below is a good example of what might be perceived as creepy. Two men say exactly the same thing. One is considered creepy and the other is considered appealing. Men who are called creepy are often called creepy due to lackluster more looks than anything.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The YouTube vid is a spectacular example of different men getting viewed much differently for pretty much the same exact behavior.

As for the 6'4" college athlete, I recall he's been posted about on threads before. Men generally have the best luck with their own race (he's an example). I'm in somewhat of a catch 22, as I have the most in common with a White woman, yet I've done surprisingly well with Latinas whose English is less than 100% (because, as I've posted about on the forum before, the language gap causes her to miss some of my socially awkward comments)

It's no surprise my last free lay was with a Mexican immigrant who failed to understand what I said at least 25% of the time (in my estimation)

 

[characternote]

Maybe they aren't so afraid of the rejection, but they think some other guys might resent them approaching the girls, and decide to beat the crap out of him for it.

I personally do not think that's the reason at all. Especially when talking about girls who have been in the bar all night and are clearly with other girls. No guys. Doesn't mean they don't have boyfriends at home but there's nothing scaring the guys off. I can't imagine random guys getting violent because they saw you approach a girl. Never happened to me in about 18 years of cold approach/night game!

I can think of maybe 3 occasions out of thousands of approaches where something a bit weird happened. One time I approached a really hot girl who was seated who appeared to be by herself. I opened. Could tell it wasn't gonna work within 2 seconds, as I pretty much always can. And before I had the time to bail I was literally being picked up off my feet by a giant of a man lol (her boyfriend who was at the bar getting a round of beers at the time of my appraoch). He just moved me! He didn't even get violent. He just picked me up like I was a baby!! haha. Very emasculating!! lmao. Good move!

Another time I DID get into a fight with a kind of white knight. Opened a girl. Was going well. Girls fat friend came and sank the ship massively on purpose and was being rude and hostile. I said something to the fat friend she didn't like. She kicked off. White knight heard it. Got in my face and I dropped him.

Other than those 2 occasions, nothing has ever happened with other guys when it came to me cold approaching

I honestly just think it's a fear thing. LIke I said before I know people who run businesses and give massive meetings to many staff and appear super confident and would generally be described as such, but they simply don't have the balls to cold approach (plus they probably know that it wouldn't work. They're older guys. They talk about the stunning 18 year old at the bar but maybe they just instinctively know she wouldn't be interested due to the age)

I think RSD or lovesystems or something said years ago about nearly every guy would much rather get into a fight with a scary guy or do a skydive or something else scary over cold approaching a really hot girl in terms of how scary they find it

 

[characternote]

It's no surprise my last free lay was with a Mexican immigrant who failed to understand what I said at least 25% of the time (in my estimation)

that's funny.
Of my large friends group over the years there's been a few guys who were slightly 'off'. Maybe mild autism or something. Not major. But they just didn't seem to have the best social skills at all. Anyway, they BOTH ended up with foreign girls and i'm certain it's because a mixture of the language barrier and also her possibly accepting his quirks as being 'normal' and assuming it's just a British thing, that allowed it to happen!
Since then i've always suggested to people on the spectrum to hit up foreign girls. I think it massively improves their odds. They can't be 'found out' so easily at all, like how Brit girls would realise something was up with him in seconds

 

[GoodMan32]

that's funny.
Of my large friends group over the years there's been a few guys who were slightly 'off'. Maybe mild autism or something. Not major. But they just didn't seem to have the best social skills at all. Anyway, they BOTH ended up with foreign girls and i'm certain it's because a mixture of the language barrier and also her possibly accepting his quirks as being 'normal' and assuming it's just a British thing, that allowed it to happen!
Since then i've always suggested to people on the spectrum to hit up foreign girls. I think it massively improves their odds. They can't be 'found out' so easily at all, like how Brit girls would realise something was up with him in seconds

It's possible these men you've known had mild autism.

My case is mild. Yet even a mild case still makes us more socially inept than 99% of men.

You're right, a foreign woman is less likely to pick up on the fact there's something off about us.

 

[ValiantMale]

Men are approaching women you just don't see them everyday.. It's far less common for a man to want to approach a woman with kids.. hence why she probably feels that way.

 

[SW15]

It's far less common for a man to want to approach a woman with kids.. hence why she probably feels that way.

She also likely has her kids with her a good portion of the time.

However, single moms do have opportunities to get approached and get sex when her kids are with their fathers.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com