Advice Pls

[dustmuffin]

I sent a direct message to a cute skinny girl on match. She is a single mom of about forty, Before you tell me no single moms and she is to old, let me tell you I'm 53. So that's a pretty good age for me and all the women I date have have young or grown kids.

Her is the message exchange:

Me: Hi Girl, what's up? We could message endlessly or just meet for drinks. Let's meet for drinks. Are you available Thursday or Sunday evening? Dustmuffin


Her: Thanks for the invite, but no thanks. I actually prefer the method of spending some time messaging and getting acquainted with them before going out and meeting. I prefer not to meet a total stranger that I met online for drinks. No offense intended of course.

Thoughts? She seems to want to draw me into her frame by forcing me to message her. She might be worth it because she is quite the cutie. What do you guys think? I'm willing to walk away. I have three dates this weekend that I didn't have to work for. I don't mind putting in a little effort though.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

I've gone on hundreds of OLD dates. I'm starting to notice a simple trend:

The women who you get to the first date in 1-2 messages or of less quality than the women who want a rapport with you before they agree to the first date.

I'm 99% confident in this theory. I will field test it.

 

[9Volt]

I sent a direct message to a cute skinny girl on match. She is a single mom of about forty, Before you tell me no single moms and she is to old, let me tell you I'm 53. So that's a pretty good age for me and all the women I date have have young or grown kids.

Her is the message exchange:

Me: Hi Girl, what's up? We could message endlessly or just meet for drinks. Let's meet for drinks. Are you available Thursday or Sunday evening? Dustmuffin


Her: Thanks for the invite, but no thanks. I actually prefer the method of spending some time messaging and getting acquainted with them before going out and meeting. I prefer not to meet a total stranger that I met online for drinks. No offense intended of course.

Thoughts? She seems to want to draw me into her frame by forcing me to message her. She might be worth it because she is quite the cutie. What do you guys think? I'm willing to walk away. I have three dates this weekend that I didn't have to work for. I don't mind putting in a little effort though.

Forget the "frame" nerd BS. That's for mental masturbators online.

Just tell the chick: "Ok. I just thought you seemed like someone I'd prefer to meet from what I could gather from your profile and thought it would be better to talk in person rather than being pen pals online". Tell her: "Let me get your number and we can talk on the phone as I've been too busy with work to be online online much." (And just send that with your first name).

If she doesn't go for it forget her and tell her it was nice saying hello. She'll talk that nonsense to one dude and the next hottest dude she'll do the exact opposite of what she told you.

If she does give her number you CALL her and chat brief or leave a brief message. NEVER stay on the phone more than 10 minutes and give your life story away no matter how good or interested in you she may seem. You want to leave "cliff hangers" as in bait so she'll possibly want to meet up. Not tell your life story and or give ANY reason she may in her mind think of to "not meet".

Just reply with:

LOL I hear that. I just thought you seemed like someone I'd prefer to meet from what I could gather from your profile and thought it would be better to talk in person rather than being pen pals online. Let me get your number so we can talk on the phone as I've been too busy with work to be online much. (Your first name) =)

 

[sazc]

I think she just likes to establish a rapport first. Make sure you can hold a conversation and eliminate you as a creeper. I would text for a bit, maybe say "a woman who likes to screen them first, smart! " tell her that ur cool with chatting, just not chatting forever, maybe ask her what caused her to feel the need to do this, etc. Maybe even ask what she needs to feel comfortable.

You can still maintain frame and feel her out. Its also better for you to feel her out before you get stuck on a date with a turnip.

 

[9Volt]

I think she just likes to establish a rapport first. Make sure you can hold a conversation and eliminate you as a creeper. I would text for a bit, maybe say "a woman who likes to screen them first, smart! " tell her that ur cool with chatting, just not chatting forever, maybe ask her what caused her to feel the need to do this, etc. Maybe even ask what she needs to feel comfortable.

You can still maintain frame and feel her out. Its also better for you to feel her out before you get stuck on a date with a turnip.

Nah. That's lame (texting). I'd send the reply I said on the dating site. If she replies with her number you simply call her like a man, make small talk and see how it goes. Set up a meet towards the end of the convo and or or see about next time. I never sit on the phone telling my life story as it just kills suspense no matter how good your life is and comes across as bragging. Ask questions more to her and listen. Have a plan to go someplace new and cool for the both of you even before calling. Coffee dates suck azz.

Museum, wine tasting, bowling, a historical place, etc. just googling best things to do for a first date in your area. I'd mention if she's up for it a cool place for Pizza, wine tasing, museum etc. I prefer to turn a meet into something I want to do that she might enjoy too. Not sitting around in a coffee shop hoping to get laid A.S.A.P like these other thirsty goofballs who fantasize online.

 

[sazc]

I agree with calling, the voice will help, good luck!

 

[WanderingMan]

I've gone on hundreds of OLD dates. I'm starting to notice a simple trend:

The women who you get to the first date in 1-2 messages or of less quality than the women who want a rapport with you before they agree to the first date.

I'm 99% confident in this theory. I will field test it.

no need to field test this one, bra. Kind of common sense, unless she's not really who she says she is and/or she just likes the attention and/or likes being a tease. Otherwise, some rapport building and light teasing and escalation is usually a good thing and a screener for you.

All of this is mute, of course, if you're just looking for a pump and dump.... then, the quicker the better. The "getting to know you phase" is just to make sure she's not some kind of serial killer and/or dude.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Not necessarily. Non sequitur. Maybe the girl just has high IL in your profile/appearance, which holds no relevance to her quality. Though, I'm looking for overall statistical performance.

 

[9Volt]

^^^this dudes pulling out pie charts, graphs, protractors, etc. for a first meet. lmao. #autism

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

What's the alternative? Grammar check my text messages for capitalization?

 

[WanderingMan]

Maybe the girl just has high IL in your profile/appearance

Okay, sure. However, the high quality woman is still going to do some type of screening... regardless...especially if all she has seen is an online profile. You still have to expect a few probing questions and a sh1t test or two... would you agree?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Okay, sure. However, the high quality woman is still going to do some type of screening... regardless...especially if all she has seen is an online profile. You still have to expect a few probing questions and a sh1t test or two... would you agree?

I met my ex-wife online many years ago following a 1-2 e-mail exchange that she initiated. She has been the highest quality girl I have ever met ... among many.

Out of the hundred or so dates within 1-2 messages, they seem to be lower-quality than the hundred or so who I took the time to establish rapport before scheduling.
So while my theory is a working guideline with noted exceptions, it's certainly not a rule. I'll be paying more attention to this dynamic now that I am aware.

 

[WanderingMan]

I met my ex-wife online many years ago following a 1-2 e-mail exchange that she initiated. She has been the highest quality girl I have ever met ... among many.

Out of the hundred or so dates within 1-2 messages, they seem to be lower-quality than the hundred or so who I took the time to establish rapport before scheduling.
So while my theory is a working guideline with noted exceptions, it's certainly not a rule. I'll be paying more attention to this dynamic now that I am aware.

Okay, well it must have been some profile

 

[Desdinova]

Her: Thanks for the invite, but no thanks. I actually prefer the method of spending some time messaging and getting acquainted with them before going out and meeting. I prefer not to meet a total stranger that I met online for drinks. No offense intended of course.

This is one of the many reasons why I quit doing online dating. All it does is add an extra step. The purpose of going out to meet her IS to build rapport. Building rapport through any sort of text messaging is an uphill battle unless you've already met her. She hasn't experienced your body language, voice tone, or facial expressions. She is going to perceive you based on your photo and the things you say and that's it.

When I was doing online dating, I would exchange messages for 2-3 days before asking to meet up. Even then, I'd get about a 50/50 chance of them saying yes. The ones that refused got dropped because they were just a waste of time.

 

[Roober]

I have noticed this as well. Tried to get one girl out, but she gave me some BS about how we barely know each other. We texted for a little bit one night, and it didn't materialize into anything... She was also a single mom of 3... Single mommies acting like they are worth something...

From my experience, I have heard a couple things... I always setup first dates in very public locations usually during the busiest time of the day. It's not like I am asking for 10pm in a dive bar. Some women do like to build a bit more rapport, but I have often found it is not worth the effort. If she is cute, she is likely screening through texts, which I guess is okay for her, but she is going to miss out on opportunities. I would much rather spend an hour in a bar, chatting, than an hour on a phone screen.

Every time I have tried more extensive text game, it hasn't ever landed in a date. One advantage I have is that my schedule is pretty full, so I tend to not have time for a week or so to meet.

 

[dustmuffin]

Thanks guys for the advice. Tried the phone call route and no response......moving on

 

[9Volt]

Thanks guys for the advice. Tried the phone call route and no response......moving on

How long has it been? notice her online when you replied? move on and see if she sends a reply. some of those chicks get dudes who get pissed off if they don't get a number right away.

don't chase for the number anymore nor bother emailing her again. move on to the next and never put all your eggs in one basket. it doesnt look good if she didn't reply with her number if at all. but she may be trying to see if you are one of those "nice guys" that flip and respond angrily if you don't get your way asap.

you should be emailing a few a day. keep messaging back and forth to a minimum and go for numbers. better to screen on the phone. some of these chicks you may not even want to bother meeting after talking to them.

anything you say in email can and will be held against you even if you have no clue why they never respond again. some are passing time. some are flakes. a lot are trash no matter how good they might look. some use older pics. and some will tell you one thing then immediately hand their number out to the best looking photogenic stud in your area.

keep it moving. if she replies days later keep your cool and stay unaffected. only reply if she sends her number and give her a call. no time to waste virtual "dating" or playing time passing pen pals.

rinse, cycle, repeat with other chicks.

some of them are whackos who are doing you a favor by not replying let alone wasting your time meeting them.

 

[Ratiocinative]

You can't ask a woman out until she wants you to ask her out. Of course there are some exceptions to the rule, but most of the time it hold true. Of course easier said than done, especially online. For all you know she's new to online dating and she's overly worried about the negative stereotypes of online daters.

Us guys are practical. We look at a woman's profile, she's attractive, she has a few similar interests and personality traits. Logically that's enough to at least have an enjoyable first date and see what happens. Women aren't logical though, they're emotional. They need to feel your confidence and strength so they can feel attracted to you, and while a great profile can get you most of the way there, and occasionally even all the way there, most of the time you're going to have to engage in some conversation, flirt a bit, and build rapport.

I've gone on hundreds of OLD dates. I'm starting to notice a simple trend:

The women who you get to the first date in 1-2 messages or of less quality than the women who want a rapport with you before they agree to the first date.

I'm 99% confident in this theory. I will field test it.

And this is a good point too. Women get approached by desperate guys all the time who will go out with them simply because they have a vagina. Any woman who is willing to agree to a date with no effort from you probably isn't worth your time.

You should do the same. If a woman has low interest and agrees to a date anyway she will probably flake. Best way to test\verify high interest is when she responds to your message and shares something about herself even when you don't ask a question. I read a really good book, forget the title, that breaks conversation into inquiries and inspirations. Inquiries you ask the person to say something, inspirations you say something that makes the other person want to say something.

When I message women online I typically will have a question as part of my first message, but then my second message I will not ask a question. I will say talk about something that she likely has similar experience with or interest in, and if she has high interest she will want to continue the conversation and share something about herself. That's what women do. When they like you they want to tell you about themselves. If you have a really great opening you don't even need any questions at all. I went out with one woman who has a pet dragon, and so my first message was something like "hey dragon lady, now all you need to do is dye your hair platinum blonde and you'll be all set" and the conversation flowed effortlessly from there, no questions needed.

 

[9Volt]

You can't ask a woman out until she wants you to ask her out. Of course there are some exceptions to the rule, but most of the time it hold true. Of course easier said than done, especially online. For all you know she's new to online dating and she's overly worried about the negative stereotypes of online daters.

Us guys are practical. We look at a woman's profile, she's attractive, she has a few similar interests and personality traits. Logically that's enough to at least have an enjoyable first date and see what happens. Women aren't logical though, they're emotional. They need to feel your confidence and strength so they can feel attracted to you, and while a great profile can get you most of the way there, and occasionally even all the way there, most of the time you're going to have to engage in some conversation, flirt a bit, and build rapport.


And this is a good point too. Women get approached by desperate guys all the time who will go out with them simply because they have a vagina. Any woman who is willing to agree to a date with no effort from you probably isn't worth your time.

You should do the same. If a woman has low interest and agrees to a date anyway she will probably flake. Best way to test\verify high interest is when she responds to your message and shares something about herself even when you don't ask a question. I read a really good book, forget the title, that breaks conversation into inquiries and inspirations. Inquiries you ask the person to say something, inspirations you say something that makes the other person want to say something.

When I message women online I typically will have a question as part of my first message, but then my second message I will not ask a question. I will say talk about something that she likely has similar experience with or interest in, and if she has high interest she will want to continue the conversation and share something about herself. That's what women do. When they like you they want to tell you about themselves. If you have a really great opening you don't even need any questions at all. I went out with one woman who has a pet dragon, and so my first message was something like "hey dragon lady, now all you need to do is dye your hair platinum blonde and you'll be all set" and the conversation flowed effortlessly from there, no questions needed.

building a rapport over the phone >>> wasting time chatting online. you hear each other and things don't get as misconstrued as they can online or with texting.

I'm talking calling and speaking. just like she may not want to meet a man also may decide he doesn't want to meet her.

telling them to give you their phone number to chat after a few brief messages cuts out time wasters. unless you prefer the fantasy of staying online because it's better than getting closer to the reality you may not actually be interested in her or had no real plans yourself to actually meet.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Your follow up message is simple:

"What would you like to know about me?"

She wants more rapport. You have to prime your target before you can make the sale. It wasn't low interest, it was not enough comfort.