Women are more shallow than men, here's why...

[joeEtata]

Society preaches enough of the "men wanting sex or hot girls" thing...but women are more shallow, just in a different way.

Every guy on this site has been dumped for a moment or more of weakness...being less than perfect emotionally and socially...sometimes even dumped for asinine reasons.

I was in a short term depression clinic/hospital type place about 5 years ago for a couple weeks...and most women (despite so so looks) had a boyfriend/husband visiting them despite their myriad of emotional problems where the same couldn't be said about the men, especially the younger men.

If your personality isn't the girls idea of "perfect" you're done. The girl doesn't even have to be hot or cute to be like this either.

At least with shallow men...women know where they stand...either they have the looks or they don't. With women...every woman has a different idea of what's "perfect" to them and if you don't live up to it, they will leave you, even if that means being with their vibrator and romance novels.

Also...say what you want about men wanting sex...but most men will have sex with a variety of women. If you're a man, unless you're part of the 10 or so percent that are extraordinarily good looking/well connected/life of the party personality/famous/body builder...you don't stand a chance to get sex (outside of a relationship) with anything but a warpig.

Yeah, men like looks...but if you took a poll on this site about what a 7/8/9/10 is, we wouldn't reach any agreement whatsoever.

With women, you can pretty much predict what they like physically...body builder, really really big men, pretty boys, extraordinarily tall guys. They pretty much fight over a small circle of men....whereas one guy on this site might prefer latinas while another prefers blondes and another prefers plain janes.

I'm just sick of this "Men are so shallow and want only one thing" bs. If that was the case, so many unattractive/nothing to offer women wouldn't have boyfriends/husbands.

You never hear a woman killing herself or others over not getting sex or a boyfriend.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Wrong.
That's just taking the easy way out--you are failing to excite women emotionally, so you instead settle on an explanation that, despite making logical sense, is wholly inaccurate.

Women SAY they prefer this and that, but if you push the right buttons, those standards go right out the window. Attraction is not a logical choice; women are guided by EMOTIONS first and foremost. Yes--the "high valued" man will have the most options, but that's mostly because the traits that come with being such a guy--power, confidence, masculinity--are the traits that make women tingly inside. You can be a tall, good looking, muscular guy, but if you act needy and insecure, you will get rejected just the same.

And TONS of guys with emotional problems get women nonetheless--think volatile rock stars. Women LOVE the idea of trying to "fix" a guy. But- once again, there has to be that feeling of attraction that comes from a guy that takes charge.

The "moment of weakness" you describe really takes place over a long period of time. Most women will forgive occasional "beta" behavior and instead focus on the overall arc of the relationship.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to label EITHER gender as "shallow" ...it's kind of like calling a dog "shallow." Women are not going to change their preferences anytime soon, and neither are we.

I would imagine that you're probably better off than you think, you just need to try a different approach with women. If you are really fed up with the shallowness of dating, you can always date a "warpig" and probably wind up being treated like a king.

 

[omkara]

I feel like that sometimes, but then I realize it's not rational. One of the things that bugs me right now is when you're talkin to a chick, and you say ONE THING and she jumps to conclusions based on that one statement and then it's game over. So I could get all angsty and say, 'but they don't even know if what they assume is really true.' And it's probably not. Fact is, they have enough options to where they have to use logical shortcuts (heuristics) to try and narrow down their options. And yeah, they might miss out on some good guys that way, but it would be inefficient.

I'm a big believer in being open-minded and giving people a chance, but I'm constantly having to deal with people (women) who have no such hang-ups. Would I still think this way if I were a hot girl? Probably not. But then, being a loner and unsuccessful and suffering has led me to be a deep thinker and empathic person, that I wouldn't have been probably if I were always popular.

Anyway, yes maybe they should be more open-minded. But it's like Don Quixote fighting the windmills. The fickle nature of females is something that is futile to resist against (for the most part). My thinking is that women are the reward in life for having your s*** together. You can't control them. They will be there when you have your life together, and leave you in hard times. If you are firing on all cylinders, you will have women. If you don't, it means you are lacking something, some balance. For me it is a social life that I am lacking. Anyway this is just my experience. There may be some people out there who legitimately have their s*** together, and still don't get women. But that's never been my problem. I know for me there is a ton of stuff I can improve, just because I should (career + being more social), and not doing something I don't care about just to get chicks.

JeffSt - Your comments are spot on as usual. Amazing how someone can speak the truth without insulting a poster or invalidating their perspective.

 

[Warrior74]

Society preaches enough of the "men wanting sex or hot girls" thing...but women are more shallow, just in a different way.

Every guy on this site has been dumped for a moment or more of weakness...being less than perfect emotionally and socially...sometimes even dumped for asinine reasons.

I was in a short term depression clinic/hospital type place about 5 years ago for a couple weeks...and most women (despite so so looks) had a boyfriend/husband visiting them despite their myriad of emotional problems where the same couldn't be said about the men, especially the younger men.

If your personality isn't the girls idea of "perfect" you're done. The girl doesn't even have to be hot or cute to be like this either.

At least with shallow men...women know where they stand...either they have the looks or they don't. With women...every woman has a different idea of what's "perfect" to them and if you don't live up to it, they will leave you, even if that means being with their vibrator and romance novels.

Also...say what you want about men wanting sex...but most men will have sex with a variety of women. If you're a man, unless you're part of the 10 or so percent that are extraordinarily good looking/well connected/life of the party personality/famous/body builder...you don't stand a chance to get sex (outside of a relationship) with anything but a warpig.

Yeah, men like looks...but if you took a poll on this site about what a 7/8/9/10 is, we wouldn't reach any agreement whatsoever.

With women, you can pretty much predict what they like physically...body builder, really really big men, pretty boys, extraordinarily tall guys. They pretty much fight over a small circle of men....whereas one guy on this site might prefer latinas while another prefers blondes and another prefers plain janes.

I'm just sick of this "Men are so shallow and want only one thing" bs. If that was the case, so many unattractive/nothing to offer women wouldn't have boyfriends/husbands.

You never hear a woman killing herself or others over not getting sex or a boyfriend.

Okay. Now what are you going to do about it?

 

[joeEtata]

Jeff, this "failure to excite women emotionally" thing is bs. You act like it's the guy's choice whether or not he can get her. Women are the selectors. Yes men can choose not to be selected (i.e. ignore or turn down women that don't appeal to them) and they can improve their situation with being more outgoing/working out/better wardrobe...but the fact is...a lot of the women a guy gets, he'd get even if he was wearing jogging pants and a loose t shirt. Pretty much, if a girl likes you, as long as you aren't shy beyond belief or beyond clueless (I'm walking WBAFC) she will like you no matter what.

The reason girls like bodybuilders/cops/firemen/men in uniform/rock stars/jocks etc isn't because they "trigger her emotions"...it's because they have the look she's after and the look she thinks her friends will be envious of. Sure the behavior helps too...women like an aggressive guy obviously...but some Bud Bundy looking guy for example acting like that wouldn't get her...you have to have the look to back it up.

And my bigger point was that women don't even have to have looks and can be depressed as hell/have a boatload of problems...but still have a boyfriend...sometimes even a good looking/sane one...whereas men, unless you're one of the 10 percent, you're pretty much screwed unless you want a warpig.

 

[Iceberg]

The reason girls like bodybuilders/cops/firemen/men in uniform/rock stars/jocks etc isn't because they "trigger her emotions"...it's because they have the look she's after and the look she thinks her friends will be envious of. Sure the behavior helps too...women like an aggressive guy obviously...but some Bud Bundy looking guy for example acting like that wouldn't get her...you have to have the look to back it up.

Sorry, but everyone else is right. You're acting like, well, an average frustrated chump.

I'm not some great defender of women or anything, but your argument is one-sided and lacking in logic. Men go after women for looks too, obviously. And girls don't have just one look they go for. You obviously don't know many women....aside from the ones that you let destroy your confidence. I know lots of girls who will date the bodybuilder one month, and then the hipster DJ the next month. Just like I might go for a business girl in January and date an artist chick in March. Women date good-looking dudes to make their friends jealous? What about the rich lawyer with the big-titted blonde wrapped around his arm? What's he dating her for? Stunning conversation and a true "connection"? People like good-looking people...

Your rage is clouding your intellect.

And my bigger point was that women don't even have to have looks and can be depressed as hell/have a boatload of problems...but still have a boyfriend...sometimes even a good looking/sane one...whereas men, unless you're one of the 10 percent, you're pretty much screwed unless you want a warpig.

That's so not true. Over the years, I've had countless pothead, loser guy friends who have nothing going for them aside from looks, who consistently got women.

Before you're going to fix whatever is wrong with you, you gotta drop this anger/depression This quote right here from you really creeped me out

You never hear a woman killing herself or others over not getting sex or a boyfriend.

That's goosebump-worthy. Why are you even talking about something like that? Loosen up, dude. It's just women.

 

[joeEtata]

"hipster DJ"..."loser good looking potheads"...thus proving my point "cool guys" or "good looking guys"...if you're not good looking and/or "cool" you're screwed...and that's not something you can fake. women can spot the phonies, which is why a lot of the guys on this site have problems.

and also i'm not worried about the lawyer with the fake titted blonde. i'm not that type of guy so it doesn't concern me. when i do notice "hot" types, i admit to myself that i just want them for sex and that i probably wouldn't be a match with them.

most of the guys i know date UGs/warpigs/fatties and don't cheat on them...good looking/sane/non chump guys...you don't see that with women. you have to be the 10 percent (which includes your hypothetical cool DJ with the social proof.)

and no i'd never kill anyone in general, but i have been tempted (and yes i have a therapist) to end my own life over being undersexed.

 

[rakishness]

Joe,

Where do u live man? Maybe you should move to a city with MORE hot girls.

 

[terran2k]

when i do notice "hot" types, i admit to myself that i just want them for sex and that i probably wouldn't be a match with them.

yeah you got self esteem issues.
so what if you want them just for sex? you ashamed of being who you are?

 

[joeEtata]

I have self-esteem issues yes. I like myself, like who I am, but in public, feel like "She wouldn't want me." I have dated attractive women like I mentioned...did everything with sex with the first one I dated (us not having sex had more to do with us arguing and breaking up than lack of attraction on her part)...but these women were more plain jane/hot (nothing wrong with that, but they are hard to find if you don't live in some artsy town or big city...i live in an area full of cape verdean women and welfare collectors...(i live in a good part)...let's put it this way...a kid was shot at the high school i went to years ago, last year, when he was trying out for the basketball team.

The thing is, I'm not in this for validation. It's because I like the taste of a woman's breath, the feel of her body, the way a woman you like looks at you....you know the look I'm talking about...she gives you that "What? What did I do?" look during the awkward pause during a date.

As for moving...I don't have the money at the moment, but I am saving. In general I want to move, not just for women.

Like I may have mentioned in this thread or another...I was at Virginia Beach for a week last year and even though I didn't get laid, I talked to more women (and attractive women) in those days than I would in 6 months locally...and they were nicer...genuinely nice too. Still facebook friends with some.

 

[terran2k]

you have self esteem issues, but you like yourself and who you are?
what kinda BS is this.... all I have to say is you're not being honest with yourself.

 

[Fuglydude]

I have self-esteem issues yes. I like myself, like who I am, but in public, feel like "She wouldn't want me." I have dated attractive women like I mentioned...did everything with sex with the first one I dated (us not having sex had more to do with us arguing and breaking up than lack of attraction on her part)...but these women were more plain jane/hot (nothing wrong with that, but they are hard to find if you don't live in some artsy town or big city...i live in an area full of cape verdean women and welfare collectors...(i live in a good part)...let's put it this way...a kid was shot at the high school i went to years ago, last year, when he was trying out for the basketball team.

The thing is, I'm not in this for validation. It's because I like the taste of a woman's breath, the feel of her body, the way a woman you like looks at you....you know the look I'm talking about...she gives you that "What? What did I do?" look during the awkward pause during a date.

As for moving...I don't have the money at the moment, but I am saving. In general I want to move, not just for women.

Like I may have mentioned in this thread or another...I was at Virginia Beach for a week last year and even though I didn't get laid, I talked to more women (and attractive women) in those days than I would in 6 months locally...and they were nicer...genuinely nice too. Still facebook friends with some.

Dude just get jacked. It makes life WAY easier. You'll feel fantastic, have great self esteem. When you feel great about yourself and look good, women will be intrinsically attracted to you. Your body/looks will do the work for you.

It takes a lot of dedication and discipline to get to that level, but I definitely think its worth it. You'll see that the level of women you get goes up substantially. The kinds of girls you're trying to get now will be your playthings, and will line up to have your cack in their mouths.

I admit my game is actually quite weak, despite the fact that I was a stripper for over three years. I've never cold approached anyone, but I have been cold approached by women a fair bit. I think I'm pretty scared of rejection, and generally speaking, most of the guys on this site probably have considerably better game than me. I think this is because I've never really had to develop game as I've never had issues getting women. I'm a little different than you as I'd never have an LTR with anything but a model, bartender, etc or an HB8 or higher. If I date lower, I know I'd cheat as I wouldn't feel like the girl was up to my level.

Women can be pretty shallow, but that can play into your hands if you're in elite shape.

 

[joeEtata]

terran...i like my life, who i am...i just don't think the majority of women i'd want would want me...and the nerdy/cute girls that would want me and i would want back usually aren't anywhere to be found where i live.

fuglydude...i'm working on the body thing...but that doesn't help me in the next year or two.

 

[P­ornography]

In inner city culture, the women are forced into adulthood and the provider role while the men remain more or less retarded and childish throughout their lives.

What the hell. Is this a typo? Or are you trying to converse inner city culture with the rest of the world?

I believe you meant to switch the men with women correct.

 

[Deadly_Ripped]

Looks make things easier, but you also have to remember that women's "types" include looks as well.

I have read that a guy should really play to a physical stereotype that mimics his personality and how he acts, but to an extreme degree. I've read very well-articulated thoughts (and agree with them) that women make a myriad of judgements about you immediately when they see you.

If you act much different than people would expect based on your looks, then you are confusing women who are seeking their 'type.'

Looks help a lot, but you do NOT have to be a body builder to pull digits and to get into relationships with women who have high self esteem and take care of their bodies.

Unless you're a hipster or hippy, the following rules apply.
You muse be:
1. Well groomed
2. Physically resembling- or totally representative of- at least one male stereotype (all this means is ANYTHING but average white/black male)
3. Confident and friendly (I put these two together because it takes confidence to assume that people will enjoy your outgoingness, and to be friendly and open with strangers or near-strangers)
4. Charming (eloquently put recently that charming is simple sharing positive feelings about the person you're talking to with them - making them feel like you're basking in their glow and enjoying their presence).
5. Willing to- but not overly-eager to- disagree with something said or done.
6. Sexual from the get-go with new people - even men (just not directed at them).

Sure, this list isn't exhaustive, but you don't need to have playboy looks to have game, and you definitely don't need to be dressed like a male model to get digits.

 

[joeEtata]

The problem is I don't fit any positive stereotype mainly because of my face (And no I'm posting pics on here.) I'm not technically ugly, but I look younger than my age (27) or at best look my age but not masculine...and I don't have a pretty boy thing going on to back up the young looks. I'm just a weird/decent looking guy...which doesn't play into any stereotype except the potential creep or nerd.

That's why I try to work on my body/style/posture...my face isn't going to change...when I've shaved my head even with facial hair or had a 1 all over, I just looked like a terrorist (i have strong features.)

And no I'm not complaining, I'm trying to work around it and am at least thankful that some women that aren't ugly/are in shape find me attractive. It's just very random...and the nerdy types that usually like me aren't where I live.

 

[Jeffst1980]

We are always the most critical of our own appearance.

If even ONE attractive woman dug the way you look, there will be PLENTY others. Basic statistics. It's a numbers game- as a single guy in your twenties, you should be in a major city. The sheer volume of attractive girls will make it IMPOSSIBLE for you NOT to have some opportunities crop up. Save up some cash and make a move, sooner rather than later.

Also, consider that if you look young at 27, your best years for pickup are still ahead of you. In the meantime, I agree that you should hit the gym--you will make progress fast if you stay consistent, and working out will naturally elevate your mood. Still, I doubt that your looks are holding you back all that much.

 

[joeEtata]

Jeff...I know I could get older attractive single women if I were meeting them...also know I could get attractive nerdy/girl next door/smart/artsy type women...also not meeting them where I live...I just question my ability to get the type of women I see at my gym. The first girl I dated was in that league...but in a way, she was the anti-hot hot girl...wasn't a scrub but not into fashion/shopping at all...didn't even seem to be aware that she was attractive (no she wasn't perfect, had other faults...loved to argue among other things...but my point is, she wasn't one of those self-aware hot women.)

Today I was at the gym and a girl and I walked by each other...probably early/mid 20s...and it's like she assumed (and yes she'd be right) that I was into her and gave me one of those phony "I have to acknowledge you" smiles...and no I wasn't hunting her down or staring at her. I don't have any proof I could attract that type of women.

When I've been at bars and clubs, I've been pointed out and laughed at for no reason by girls...and no I don't dress bad etc...called a creep just for existing or laughed at.

The good news like I said is that the artsy/nerdy type women and attractive milfs tend to like me and overlook any "weirdness" about my appearance...but that doesn't help me with the stereotypically hot white women.

 

[Deadly_Ripped]

Reality check, Joe,

You are forgetting that you see MANY women at the gym. You're not talking about most of them. You're talking about the few gym rats whom you NOTICE AND REMEMBER.

Those are the hottest of the fit people who surround you! You aren't looking at the fat chick trying ot lose 20 lbs so she's not pre-diabetic. You're definitely not looking at the ugly girl with an eating disorder who can't get her skinny butt off of the treadmill. You're looking at women who take their fitness as seriously as you take... masturbation or whatever it is that you take super seriously and wouldn't sacrifice for anything.

But I bet you won't stop there, either.

The hot woman you NOTICE at the gym also has to be down-to-earth, funny, social, and low-maintenance. Who is being shallow here?

Why are you so concerned with women you notice at the gym? Wait... that sounds awfully shallow to me! This seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm not trying to flame you... I'm just trying to point out that you're using physical attributes of other women to judge them as being worthy or unworthy of your attention, which is EXACTLY what you're complaining about!

 

[joeEtata]

Yes but I openly admit it like I said...and that I want those stereotypically hot girls for sex (unless I know them and we click for more.)

Women say "I can't find a nice guy" then ignore men that would treat them right...and these aren't even the hot women either. It's more just a women rant than anything.

I hate the stereotype that men are pigs and women are these innocent beings just looking for love. I'm trying to take advantage of what I know and develop the look they want (even if they don't admit it.)