Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Women and their games

Brutus

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
42
Reaction score
1
This is something I've been thinking last couple of days, I'm basically thinking out loud, writing this for me, but I believe some guys could also benefit from it, because I know here are guys who are also angry at women, so here we go.

In one of his posts (don't remember the title, but it's in Hall Of Fame), Pook talked about evolution of a Nice Guy. the steps are something like:

- Nice Guy
- Bitter Guy
- Neat Guy
- Decent Guy
- Good Guy

I'm at a Bitter Guy stage. In a way, I'm glad, because I'm not at the lower level any more, but otherwise this stage is really pain in the a$$, because I have some hatred towards women.

At this stage, you no longer blame yourself if things don't go the way you want them (as you do at Nice Guy stage, because then she's an angel to you who can do no wrong), but the problem is, you blame women. For example, last weekend I suggested to a girl to hang out sometime, she started playing games and gave me some BS, so I became visibly angry and said "Yeah, right" and walked away.

Obviously, you don't get any results this way. You're just angrier and angrier and that gets you nowhere. Which means we could use a new perspective.

The thing is, it's not just b!tches and psycho-chicks who play games. It's not about sifting through them to find the good ones. Because I say that in the beginning, when you just met, ALL attractive women play games, even the ones who are not actually messed up in their head. I'm sure there are guys who have everything so together that women see them like complete prize and don't risk him walking away, so they don't play any games, but most of us are far from being in that place (and we want some fun in the meantime!). So, if you want attractive woman who doesn't play any games whatsoever, you'll have to first improve yourself a lot in all aspects or search for a looong time.

Because it's not a character flaw. Some posts on this site which adressed that issue claim it's their nature. I believe it's both their nature and learned behaviour, direct product of social programming. I believe they're brainwashed by what their moms told them, by articles in girly magazines and society in general.

Think about it - what's the number one rule these articles emphasize? It's something along these lines - "don't show him you like him too much" and "let him work for you a little bit." I think almost all girls don't even think about it very much. They don't think about psychological principles behind this advice (that we appreciate things more when we have to actually put some effort in them). As soon as a guy shows interest, they go into hard to get mode because... "Well, that's how this thing works, right? Now I resist his advances for a while (even though I like him), so he won't think I'm easy, right?" I think it's almost automatic for them. She's not doing it out of cruelty, not to emotionally torment you, not to make you frustrated - she's merely following a dating ritual she has in her mind.

How unbelievebly stupid that ritual is doesn't matter right now - like I said, she never really thought about it.

I believe the next thing they follow, which is more on intuitive level than learned, is that they actually apply number one rule of DJism. So, let's see if you did your homework - what's the number one rule of DJism? It's protecting your heart (for those who didn't know that - and you know who you are - back to the drawing board!). She intuitively knows, if she gets emotionally attached to a wrong guy, she's in trouble. So she cautious. She's holding back. Not out of cruelty, not to emotionally torment you, not to make you frustrated - she's merely protecting her heart, so she won't suffer.

Like it was said before - women naturally do things we have to learn on sites like this. So we can't really blame them, if we do the same things, can we?

Third thing is indecision. Girls are notorious about low ability to decide. They don't know if they should choose you. We're talking about attractive girls here. There are other guys after them, she'll choose the one who she finds the best. So she's testing to see who's the best. Results can be wrong, because she didn't think about methodology enough and many times she chooses jerk instead of good (not nice!) guy, but that's her problem. She's not doing it out of cruelty, not to emotionally torment you, not to make you frustrated - she just wants the best guy available.

Out of this three reasons for playing games, this is most nasty, because vanity is behind it, but vanity, like laziness, is in all of us, so we can't really blame them. If there were five girls after you, you would also do the same.

There are probably other reasons for playing games, but I think these should be enough to realize that they don't do it to hurt us. We should accept them, embrace them, and next time when she's giving you some BS, just give her a knowing smile and do your thing like nothing happened.
 

THE_ADDMAN

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
821
Reaction score
4
Age
37
Location
Newmarket, Ontario
sounds like u have a good foundation of knowledge.

I know this "bitter stage" sucks, but keep an open mind, and you'll be healed and ready to move onto the next stage of development
 

Brutus

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
42
Reaction score
1
Thank you for words of encouragement.

Any other replies?
 

Sharpe

Don Juan
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
Adelaide, Australia
To be honest, I'm not sure what stage I'm at. But I'd suggest somewhere around the neat - decent stage.

Just recently, I've found myself taking another step forward - being able to read the games the some chicks play. In fact, when one was playing them with me, I found it quite amusing. She was doing the old "I'm going to flirt with you and make it seem I want you and then when you flirt back I'll just ignore you". I caught onto this straight away and was able gain her interest a little more just by talking normally. Every time she flirted and I flirted back, before she had a chance to be a b!tch and shut me down, I'd just do a freeze out. I'd say excuse me and goto the juke box, or point ata distraction or something like that. Each time I did that, she did what she could to get my attention back. The pinacle was when she straddled me and started kissing me to get my attention back.

It's funny how you can use their own games against them.

Brutus said:
Third thing is indecision. Girls are notorious about low ability to decide. They don't know if they should choose you. We're talking about attractive girls here. There are other guys after them, she'll choose the one who she finds the best. So she's testing to see who's the best. Results can be wrong, because she didn't think about methodology enough and many times she chooses jerk instead of good (not nice!) guy, but that's her problem. She's not doing it out of cruelty, not to emotionally torment you, not to make you frustrated - she just wants the best guy available.
Thanks for writing this - it has me thinking about my current problem which I detailed in this thread : http://sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=113819

One thing I'm concerned about - are you suggesting that she'll chose the jerk becuase he is the best guy available? Are you able to elaborate on this and express exactly what you're thinking? I'd be interested to read it. I think next time I see her, I'll point out to her that I'm not a nice guy (which she claims I am, to her occasional frustration), but I'm in fact a good guy that want's her to be all his.
 

Brutus

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
42
Reaction score
1
Hi, Sharpe!

About your particular situation - I don't like to give advice, because I don't have enough experience plus every situation is slightly different and I don't know enough about your situation. But I think that replies you've got were very reasonable.

About your question - she'll choose the jerk if she PERCEIVES him as the best guy. And TO HER the best guy is the one who's most EXCITING. She wants to FEEL things, remember? A gentleman will lose over jerk any day. Both are confident, but - gentleman has integrity and values (which jerk lacks) but lacks excitement (which jerk has). Excitement will win over integrity everytime. Kinda sucks, but that's the way it is.

All a jerk has to do is to hide his self-centered character core until she's emotionally attached and then she has hard time getting out, because she's already "addicted".

There are many articles on this site which talk about embracing sexuality and/or "natural" game. We have to study them hard to really get them on the deep level, because I believe the information in these posts is THE KEY.

I sense you already have confidence/strength (I have to work on this one first), integrity and character. You have what a gentleman has. Now you have to embrace your sexuality to become exciting. At that point, you have best of both worlds - you are strong, you are exciting AND you have integrity. You're ultimate PRIZE.

And I believe this is the Good Guy Pook talked about.
 

I-am-someone

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
477
Reaction score
2
Age
39
Location
the Netherlands
Okay, I sense frustration in that thread indeed.
Do women really play hard to get? I have't experience this lately.

Women are either interested, or they're not.
If they´re interested, they´re not going to play hard to get.
If they´re not interested, they´re playing impossible to get.
If they´re only somewhat interested, then they´ll play hard to get.

Still, work on yourself first. Build confidence, work out, change your looks, etc.

The real fun starts when you know you look good, when you know you´re confident and when you know that about 80% of the women you meet are within your grasp.

You could consider that the `good guy´ stage, but I don´t think that naming is sufficient. It´s the `great guy´ stage. It means you're great at everything you do.
 

Sharpe

Don Juan
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Brutus said:
Hi, Sharpe!

About your particular situation - I don't like to give advice, because I don't have enough experience plus every situation is slightly different and I don't know enough about your situation. But I think that replies you've got were very reasonable.

About your question - she'll choose the jerk if she PERCEIVES him as the best guy. And TO HER the best guy is the one who's most EXCITING. She wants to FEEL things, remember? A gentleman will lose over jerk any day. Both are confident, but - gentleman has integrity and values (which jerk lacks) but lacks excitement (which jerk has). Excitement will win over integrity everytime. Kinda sucks, but that's the way it is.

All a jerk has to do is to hide his self-centered character core until she's emotionally attached and then she has hard time getting out, because she's already "addicted".

There are many articles on this site which talk about embracing sexuality and/or "natural" game. We have to study them hard to really get them on the deep level, because I believe the information in these posts is THE KEY.

I sense you already have confidence/strength (I have to work on this one first), integrity and character. You have what a gentleman has. Now you have to embrace your sexuality to become exciting. At that point, you have best of both worlds - you are strong, you are exciting AND you have integrity. You're ultimate PRIZE.

And I believe this is the Good Guy Pook talked about.
That is extremely well put. And I think you have hit the nail square on the head. Especially at my age, excitment is what 99.99% of girls want. So you can either change your game and yourself to be more exciting, or you can sit around and wait for the .01% chance of finding the one girl who doesn't want excitment, and just wants the "gentleman".
 

Rebound Material

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
817
Reaction score
6
Location
California
WOO-HOO!!! im definitely at the bitter stage right about now, but slowly but surely getting to neat guy...funny, at the bitter stage, people think im a jerk and its not only by the way I act or say, but just the way i look...
 

THE_ADDMAN

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
821
Reaction score
4
Age
37
Location
Newmarket, Ontario
I was doing well, but took a detour back to the "bitter stage"

I'm at my breaking point right now
 

Jariel

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
4,419
Reaction score
285
Location
UK
This is a very insightful post. I like the way you look at your state of mind with a sense of progression.

I went from the "nice guy" to the bitter stage too, but the underlying problem is more of a control issue really. "Nice guys" use niceness and generosity to try and control women and get their own way and bitter guys are generally frustrated and angry because they lose control and can't get their own way.

It takes time and experience to get past it, but eventually you learn to accept that you can't control women and whatever will be will be. When you get rejected you shrug your shoulders and think "oh well, it wasn't meant to be". When a girl starts playing games, you roll your eyes and sigh "Typical woman" and pay no attention. When a girl is a b1tch, you say nothing to her until she apologises.

You cannot control women, but you CAN control yourself, make yourself a more attractive and confident person and you can also control how you react to women. Their games will only get you down if you allow them to. By not reacting to their games, you take away all of their power.

Then instead of feeling bitter and miserable, making yourself poor company and unpopular with other people, you can take life in your stride and people will be drawn towards you.
 

insanity

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
529
Reaction score
3
Location
place to place.
it all has to do with what stage you are in life. once women take a backseat to your true passions and goals in life that is when you'll get women knocking down your door. thats why i could never understand anyone who follows the route of university or just the normal everyday living approach, it's boring unless that woman is interested in the same thing.

example- girls sitting with me and my friends and asks what everyone does. they say university, i work at this firm or i work at this place and make a awesome living and then i open my mouth and say i'm pursuing a rock career and there attention focuses on me. it's not because i'm rich or have an awesome job. it's because they can see the fire in my eyes and i talk about it like it's some kind of adventure. i already have a great woman because she wants to come along for the ride. i always have a plan a,b or c because no matter what i do in life i will be successful at one of them.

i use to hate women and their games in the past. eventually i just started focusing on myself and what made me happy and things just started coming together. try it and you'll notice a difference.
 
Top