Women and the desire to mate with a high quality man vs. the need to settle down

[STR8UP]

That bell tolls loud enough to drown out rational thinking. That's for damned sure. The rub here brother, is that once she's got the AFC on the line and the hook so far up his ass he's helpless without her, who is she going to drive all over town to have throw her up against a wall and point her toes to Jesus? That's right, the Don Juan man. Guys like us will get the call while the AFC is home content with smelling the crotch of her panties.

You shouldn't be surprised or alarmed by the ex girlfriends decision. It just shows her priority is to be financially secure. D1ck can come later.

I think she's getting married in a week or two, haha, poor guy.

If I had to put odds on whether or not this chick will cheat on her man, I'd put them at about 60-75%. If I were to be the one initiating something with her, i would put it closer to 90%. It would just be too convenient and risk free for her. Lower risk of rejection, already knows she gets mind blowing orgasms, it's in another zip code so it doesn't count, etc. Perfectly convenient excuse to fly down to FL for the weekend to visit her "girls".

It's sad, in a way, but I guess that's "nature". When you break things down into logic it's easy to see why women do what they do. In the grand scheme of the procreation of our species the feelings of some poor AFC don't count for much.

Sometimes I wish I were more of a ruthless bastard, cause I probably would have already hit it when she came to town for her bachelorette party a couple of weeks ago.

 

[WestCoaster]

There is somewhat of a biological clock -- women most likely aren't cranking out kids in their 40's (usually) -- but RT is right in that it is more of a psychological clock.

The most maddening thing for me is when I hear men (AFCs) talking about their own biological clock and that they need to get married and have kids soon. And yes, I've heard it a few times, the continued AFCing of the American male. These clowns say it without blinking.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

So what you are saying is that it's only a woman's competitive drive that creates a stronger urge to settle down with a man? Basically "I'm not getting any younger" kind of deal?

The fact that women have a limited shelf life in the reproductive game HAS to play a big part in it as well.

The part of the competition dynamic only functions as a reminder for a woman that the party can't go on indefinitely. It's not the actual competing itself. It's the stage of life that a woman finds herself in that prompts a shift in her priorities with regards to sexual selection. As I stated in my schedules of mating post, women will ƒuck the Bad Boy either proactively or reactively. The woman who jumps the gun and marries the Nice Guy early in life will have a tendency to cheat or desire to cheat with the wild and adventurous Bad Boy she'd never experienced before. Rare is the case that a woman cheats on one Nice Guy provider for another. And even if there is no cheating involved a woman will tend to look for what she didn't experience with her last lover in the next. This is why it's statistically proven that the younger a couple marries the greater the odds are for divorce.

The other side of this coin is the woman you described; the have her cake and eat it too girl. She consistently bangs the Bad Boy(s) and around 28-32 she looks for a Nice Guy to 'be there for her." This is when the biological clock excuse rings in. It doesn't mean she's stopped wanting to bang the Bad Boy, but she reprioritizes her criteria for an LTR as her ability to attract them declines and they opt for hotter, younger women. This is the reactive scenario. Suddenly, out of the blue, she's more into the Nice Guy treat-her-right men (who've always been there) and she'll have you believe she's always been like this or she had some divine epiphany after her last Jerk BF left.

I'm sure there is a biological element to this as well, but in the context that women love to use it, a biological clock is nothing more than a useful ruse for them.

The most maddening thing for me is when I hear men (AFCs) talking about their own biological clock and that they need to get married and have kids soon. And yes, I've heard it a few times, the continued AFCing of the American male. These clowns say it without blinking.

And this is exactly what I mean. This is how popularized psychological clap-trap becomes part of our social consciousness. Now men have biological clocks, why? Because they're a useful rationalization for excusing why they settled for a woman to engage in an LTR with rather than confront the simple truth that he has no real, viable options.

 

[STR8UP]

Now men have biological clocks, why?

That would have to be THE most AFC term a man could ever use when referring to himself.

If I ever heard a guy say that I think I would throw up on his shoes.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Well, something else to consider is this:

The only understandable/JUSTIFIABLE reason a man may have for even "thinking" he has a biological clock would probably only exist in the realm of his own physical health when it comes to raising children----especially MALE children.

Let's be honest here, troops. I'm sure there are some men who may want sons, and they would much rather have them while they themselves are still at an age and/or health-level whereas they can still "roughhouse with'em, play football with'em, and just be generally physical with'em, etc."

Sure, we can all shoot semen til' we LEAVE this mutherfukker, but how many men (WHO WANT SONS) would want to actively raise a male-child from a wheelchair due to arthritis, while also wearing an oxygen tank?

But OTHER than that, no. I don't really see any other viable reason why a man would RUSH to commit to marriage with a woman based on some personal, self-imposed age criteria.

But now...for a man to actually REFER to this scenario as him having a "biological clock" is INDEED "gay as hell", though...:moon:

 

[bigjohnson]

I've been watching this thread, lots of good comments, but from the get-go I see a problem with the assertion that the desire to mate with a high quality man and the desire to settle down are mutually exclusive for a woman.

The assumption seems to be that good quality men won't settle down.

Or more precisely, it seems like a lot (but not all) of this thread is about guys assuring themselves they are better than the guys who go into an LTR with women.



That's a lot like a bunch of middle aged women getting together and agreeing that guys who go for young women can't cope with the challenge older women present and are therefore taking an easy out.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Good post, Bigjohnson.

I agree with your assessment. And I was getting around to mentioning this myself, as well. But I just didn't wanna be the first one to have to do it this time...AGAIN. lol

 

[STR8UP]

I've been watching this thread, lots of good comments, but from the get-go I see a problem with the assertion that the desire to mate with a high quality man and the desire to settle down are mutually exclusive for a woman.

Yea, women are looking for the whole package in one man, but how often do they find that? I would venture to say that with the pussification of men these days they have a harder time finding a quality man than we do finding a quality woman.

The assumption seems to be that good quality men won't settle down.

Or more precisely, it seems like a lot (but not all) of this thread is about guys assuring themselves they are better than the guys who go into an LTR with women.

I never said that good quality men won't settle down.

I made my assessment of this situation based upon several factors.

1) She is looking to settle down. She mentioned that she is getting pressure from her family to have a stable relationship.

2) She is looking to have children. She didn't say this to me personally, but I did hear it from her best friend.

3) The fact that a male friend of mine knows the entire situation, probably quite a bit better than I do (due to the fact that he gets details from her best friend that I don't get), and even he came to the conclusion that the only reason this chick hooked up with someone else, moved 1000 miles away, and got engaged, was because I wasn't going to be the one to fill that role.

4) The whole thing about her still having feelings for me. It's been nearly a YEAR and her best friend STILL asks me if I ever wanted more from her friend. I ask her why it matters, and she says "Oh it matters a lot!" What, so if I say "yes" she's gonna drop her fiancee for me? I doubt it, but I'm curious as to why it matters so much....

5) Dude proposed to her less than six months after they got together. Is there anything you can do that screams AFC more than that?

That's a lot like a bunch of middle aged women getting together and agreeing that guys who go for young women can't cope with the challenge older women present and are therefore taking an easy out.

I'm not making a generalized blanket statement, I looked at the situation as a whole and I concluded that based upon what I saw, this chick is settling for the first guy she liked who would put a ring on her finger.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I see a problem with the assertion that the desire to mate with a high quality man and the desire to settle down are mutually exclusive for a woman.

Woah! No no no,..go back and read my schedules of mating post again. Women's most primal instinct IS to find the guy who embodies the best of what the Bad Boy is AND the best of what the Nice Guy has to offer. The problem is that rarely do the 2 manifest themselves in the same Man. In fact, I would argue that a true DJ is the best of both of these archetypes. He's the real Prince who knows his own worth, is respectable by her and others, and acts on his own behalf while making his woman appreciate his ambiton, his status and his prowess.

But as I said, rare is the guy who can be the Good Guy. The one women desperately want to ƒuck AND commit to in the long term, particularly with the growing divide between a Jerk and an AFC thanks to the feminization of men in the last 40 years. So psycho-social conventions and countermeasures are developed to facilitate breeding with the best stock and securing a good provider. Go back and read my schedules of mating post to see how this works.

 

[penkitten]

Woah! No no no,..go back and read my schedules of mating post again. Women's most primal instinct IS to find the guy who embodies the best of what the Bad Boy is AND the best of what the Nice Guy has to offer. The problem is that rarely do the 2 manifest themselves in the same Man. In fact, I would argue that a true DJ is the best of both of these archetypes. He's the real Prince who knows his own worth, is respectable by her and others, and acts on his own behalf while making his woman appreciate his ambiton, his status and his prowess.

But as I said, rare is the guy who can be the Good Guy. The one women desperately want to ƒuck AND commit to in the long term, particularly with the growing divide between a Jerk and an AFC thanks to the feminization of men in the last 40 years. So psycho-social conventions and countermeasures are developed to facilitate breeding with the best stock and securing a good provider. Go back and read my schedules of mating post to see how this works.

rollo knows everything

 

[bigjohnson]

Woah! No no no,..go back .....

Wasn't talking about you at all bud. Like I said, lots of good comments but SOME posts seem to be sort of the male version of a hen party.

 

[Bonhomme]

However, needless to say, there is no shortage of men sexually deprived enough to 'see past' the long term disadvantages, and not only rewarding, but reinforcing a single mother's bad decisions with regard to her breeding selections and schedules in exchange for short term sexual gratification.

This is like a more sensible variation on the theme of the "ascetic" who uses "morality" to make a virtue of their inability to get laid.

Many men opt for steady booty over real mutual attraction. It's certainly understandable, but one or the other or both are being disrespected and likely to take a big hit somewhere down the line unless they're really aware of what's going on and see it for what it is... which very few do, or even can.

 

[bigjohnson]

rollo knows everything

Seems like. I sort of disagree with the way he simplified it into 2 groups, I think that's useful but artificial.

The behavior I witness seems based on a few simple facts:

• Women are very aware of their current "market value". They are constantly given indicators in their daily life and they notice this, since they were little girls. It's how they are wired. They see their value dropping, slowly at first, and then sometime in their late 20s it accelerates.
  
• They also want the best man they can get.
  
• Western society has eliminated a lot of good men.

Combine those and you get women who fool around trying everything they can think of to attract males, eventually finding a "local maxima" and settling. Time, circumstance and the individual womans willingness to settle for more local and less maxima account for the variation in behavior I think. I see what Rollo describes, I just don't see two distinct groups; what I witness seems to be more a continuum of behavior.



I completely agree that the core issue is that western society has conditioned men to be ashamed to be men and women to be ashamed to be women. This leaves us in a state where men don't know how to get what they want and women know precisely how to get what they don't want. Neato.

 

[bigjohnson]

Yea, women are looking for the whole package in one man, but how often do they find that?

Not very often, but are you willing to admit she didn't find that whole package in you? That is obviously the case, isn't it? So are you sure that the subset of "perfect man" you exhibit make you better than the subset she selected? Why?

 

[STR8UP]

Not very often, but are you willing to admit she didn't find that whole package in you? That is obviously the case, isn't it? So are you sure that the subset of "perfect man" you exhibit make you better than the subset she selected? Why?

I'm definitely NOT the perfect man. At this stage in my life I all but refuse to even get involved with someone on a serious level due to the fact that I have too much going on and it wouldn't be fair to drag them into it.

But that really isn't what we are talking about here. If I came off as "I'm better than everyone else" that wasn't my intention. I was more trying to point out that a man can have what most women would consider to be attractive qualities, (which I would say that I do) but her desire to settle down can override that attraction mechanism so she is willing to settle for a man who might lean more toward the AFC side of the spectrum.

You have the "nice guys" and you have the "jerks". In the middle lies the man with the best of both worlds. A balanced person who knows what being a man is all about. Women don't know this on a conscious level, but that's the man they really want.

When women are younger they especially tend to gravitate toward the jerk side of the spectrum. But when they get older their "needs" cause them to seek the nice guy/ provider type. If the DJ who is in the middle is willing to settle down, she's in, but chances are he knows his value and is unwilling to settle, even if it means being alone, so her default ends up being the nice guy. Sooner or later she goes out and fukks the DJ or the jerk to get what she is missing from her nice guy.

I haven't had sex with this chick in almost a year now. But for her to continue talking openly about our sex life, to continue to bring up our past, to lay in a bed snuggled up next to me.......well...that's not exactly what i would want MY fiancee doing. She might as well erect a neon sign that says "I'm getting married for the wrong reasons".

 

[jophil28]

Men having biological clocks ??
I am over 50 - I am having a fine time with the ladies .I freed myself recently from being " acceptable and normal" and I also realized, a few years ago ,that "settling down " is a socially convenient construct (for women) . I also grasped that I can do my life exactly as I please and I am beholden to nobody.

Men have bio clocks too ? - I can't here any ticking..

 

[jophil28]

ditto post -oops