Why should prostitution be illegal?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bussey

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
376
Reaction score
4
Location
Toronto
The reason it is illegal is because you can't control it like you can a physical product. You can't put it into a store, keep inventory on it and TAX IT!

Tax money is made on such HUGE margins on cigarettes and alcohol.


You present a way to control prostitutes and how to tax them per **** directly to congress... If its feasible... prostitution will be legalized.
 

mpimpin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
1,750
Reaction score
14
Location
Bama
Bussey said:
The reason it is illegal is because you can't control it like you can a physical product. You can't put it into a store, keep inventory on it and TAX IT!

Tax money is made on such HUGE margins on cigarettes and alcohol.


You present a way to control prostitutes and how to tax them per **** directly to congress... If its feasible... prostitution will be legalized.
1099 anyone?

Treat it the same way any self laborer or job is treated.

Not sure how it is in Toronto but in the states we already have it legal in Nevada not sure if there are any more states that do. But we do have it as a legal job and as taxable income
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
55
Bussey said:
The reason it is illegal is because you can't control it like you can a physical product. You can't put it into a store, keep inventory on it and TAX IT!

Tax money is made on such HUGE margins on cigarettes and alcohol.


You present a way to control prostitutes and how to tax them per **** directly to congress... If its feasible... prostitution will be legalized.

I don't think that's why it's illegal, they can't really control it more this way now anyway. Besides how would control be a valid argument when you have pornography (while I'll admit it's slightly more controllable but not by much)? I think it's like I said, women find it more economically advantageous for prostitution to be illegal and minimized than for it to be legal. So most women don't want, so it's not allowed. Just like mpimping said the tax revenue would come in through requiring 1099's and the threat of tax evasion.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
55
bigjohnson said:
I've wondered about this on several fronts.


Secondly what if I hire her for a "photo-shoot"; is it art and not prostitution? Does setting up a couple tripods, a vidcam and a still cam and a few lights make it legal to screw like, well, pornstars?
I just thought of a prostitution legal loophole/business adventure for high class prostitution. Have the customer pay his fee, sign a release to be recorded, then set up a video recorder, and after it's done hand him the tape. Now it's magically no longer prostitution but art:D.

I'm thinking most people would be camera shy and the big issue would be fear of the recording still being diseminated, especially when prostitution is considered illegal and therefore more taboo. You could just make the release to only be for recording and not diseminating but I'm thinking most people would still be reluctant to be recorded.

I wonder if anyone else is doing this though? I think I saw an add once where you pay a fee for a pron "screening". What's the difference between that and prostitution except they were getting a release to disiminate it and make even more money.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
55
mpimpin said:
1099 anyone?

Treat it the same way any self laborer or job is treated.

Not sure how it is in Toronto but in the states we already have it legal in Nevada not sure if there are any more states that do. But we do have it as a legal job and as taxable income
Yeah and in Nevada has it observablly caused an increase in drug use, violence, rapes, pimps, spread of disease and similar claims some use against it being legalized? I don't think so. And it could be regulated and taxed as income. It could be only legal in certain zones for in call only. Both parties could be required to show proof of STD tests, and it could be clear what one pays and for what, taking it out of the shadows.

This thing is really a shame. Innocent people with charges pending against them for doing NOTHING wrong. It's crazy, makes absolute no sense at all.
Yeah really. I'm not trying to defend that Governor, just using him as an example. A person totally loses everything over this? I mean come on. As it stands the "ring" and customers could potentially face charges of prostitution, wire or credit fraud (? I guess because client doesn't want to use real name), lying to investigators :rolleyes:, money laundering (how do you pay taxes on something illegal?) and who knows what else just because prostitution is illegal. Yet there was no alleged victim, spread of disease, public nuisance, violence, theft, drugs, rape, or pimps. All the while there's plenty of ways people are made a victim and even legally. think about family courts, etc. Does this not sound like a Salem witch hunting society or what?
 

edger

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
1,875
Reaction score
39
Location
A state in America that'll unmercifully leave you
Yeah Spitzer's a f*cked up hypocrite. The man as a prosecutor put many people behind bars for the same thing he did; soliciting a prostitute. Piece of sh*t. Well hopefully now he can wallow in his own hypocrisy and see what it feels like.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
55
edger said:
Yeah Spitzer's a f*cked up hypocrite. The man as a prosecutor put many people behind bars for the same thing he did; soliciting a prostitute. Piece of sh*t. Well hopefully now he can wallow in his own hypocrisy and see what it feels like.

Oh I agree he's a hypocrite, and that's why I said it wasn't about defending him personally. He was probably doing worse and more hypocritical sh!t than this that he got brought down for. But that's not why the investigators got him, they just stumbled acrossed him being involved in hiring a prostitute. You could be a total non-hypocrite and they'd use it against you probably quicker to bring you down. But that brings up a good point, the legislators that passed the law making prostitution illegal or who could at least legalize it are dabbling with prostitutes themselves. Total hypocrisy!
 

PRMoon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
3,746
Reaction score
41
Age
43
Location
-777-Vegas-777-
Since when is prostitution illegal? You can all pay money to have some stripper come to your house and perform an "erotic full service dance" for a set fee then afterwards you can "tip" the girl for the rest of the deal. Hell you can get an acual "escort" from certain services go on a date with you and "sleep" with them if you go to the right place. Every metropolitan city in the US has something like that or similar.

We even have them in vegas while there are actual wh*re houses scattered in the nevada desert. That's how we'll they've interveined in society. "Legal" prositition has to compete with "illegal" prostitution...now that you mention it some of those companies are run by the same people...interesting...point being prositiution is a paper law and easy to get around and taxed by the government in some way or another. Just don't make it obvious by picking up street walkers on herion and you're straight.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
55
PRMoon said:
Since when is prostitution illegal? You can all pay money to have some stripper come to your house and perform an "erotic full service dance" for a set fee then afterwards you can "tip" the girl for the rest of the deal. Hell you can get an acual "escort" from certain services go on a date with you and "sleep" with them if you go to the right place. Every metropolitan city in the US has something like that or similar.

..point being prositiution is a paper law and easy to get around and taxed by the government in some way or another. Just don't make it obvious by picking up street walkers on herion and you're straight.
Well outside of Nevada prostitution is very illegal in all forms. Well yeah it's still going on everywhere hidden, but that doesn't make it a paper law any more than drugs being sold every where makes illegal drugs a paper law. Didn't you see what's happening to the Governor of NY. The same guy, by the way, who ran others through the ringer for the same thing. How are you going to pay taxes on something that's illegal in your area? So they get you one way or another for that. In some jurisdiction they've ran stings and entraped "Johns" and confiscated their vehicles somehow permentantly and then aired the people on the news. Don't think for one minute that outside of Nevada that prostitution being illegal is just a paper law.
 

mpimpin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
1,750
Reaction score
14
Location
Bama
PRMoon had a slight point. He was trying to point out the disguise businesses that prostitution can hide under.
 

PRMoon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
3,746
Reaction score
41
Age
43
Location
-777-Vegas-777-
ketostix said:
Well outside of Nevada prostitution is very illegal in all forms. Well yeah it's still going on everywhere hidden, but that doesn't make it a paper law any more than drugs being sold every where makes illegal drugs a paper law. Didn't you see what's happening to the Governor of NY. The same guy, by the way, who ran others through the ringer for the same thing. How are you going to pay taxes on something that's illegal in your area? So they get you one way or another for that. In some jurisdiction they've ran stings and entraped "Johns" and confiscated their vehicles somehow permentantly and then aired the people on the news. Don't think for one minute that outside of Nevada that prostitution being illegal is just a paper law.
See you're missing the big picture. That guy tried to run a cat house. It's an outcall service where sex is garunteed. I don't even have to leave nevada to find an illegal one of those. In the City of Las Vegas and boardering counties such a service is illegal. You can only do that in the flats like Parump an Laughlin etc etc.

However an escort or stripper service direct to my house is perfectly legal. If you were to call one of these services and ask about sex they have the programed response "Of course the act of prostitution is illegal in [Fill in your city and county here] BUT whatever else transpires is between you and the girl" It works because they provided you with an entertainer and collected a fee which is taxed. The girl herself will give you a LIST of optional sexual activities with a range of prices.

I'm not making this up. I though everybody knew about that? I've witnessed it at many parties in New York, Chicago, Miami, Baltimore, Trenton, St. Louise. Hell name ONE bachelor party you've been to where the groom to be didn't get at least a blow job in a major city. F*ck I've done it WITH COPS in comped hotel suites in The Luxor.

You're thinking VERY inside the box for the process of prostitution. Just because you can't have it your way, doesn't mean you can't get fast food.
 

The Inside Man

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
554
Reaction score
8
Location
sofla
There's worse things going on in the world; it's different b/c he used to be a prosecutor but it goes back to the bill clinton scandal. some people still think it's worse for our country that he did that, than for president bush to change the course of the war on terror in afghanistan into invading Iraq which posed no immediate threat to us, althought there was a horrible dictator in power. We invaded Iraq because they tried to kill bush's daddy and they have 16 billions barrels of oil under the surface and we recieve something like 2-300 million barrels per year. This kind of misleading the country under pretenses of patriotism, nationalism, and democracy are far, far worse than someone getting their d1ck sucked by someone other than their spouse.
 

The Inside Man

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
554
Reaction score
8
Location
sofla
I miss vegas btw, I had a fun time at a massage parlor out there. Wouldn't mind doing it again with the "4 hands" variety! lol. I wouldn't pay for a straight up hooker tho, or do anything other than a blowie with a condom but to each their own, its between two consenting adults.
 

Bonhomme

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
3,963
Reaction score
16
Location
Land of the Ruins
It's illegal because those who made the laws did so on the mistaken notion that making it illegal would discourage it. I don't think the fines collected exceed the costs of enforcement, so it's not even a cash cow for the cities.

The main effect of legalizing it would be to make it safer and less expensive.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
55
This is kind of ironic. I clicked on my homepage and there was an article about prostitution there. I didn't know prostitution was legal in Germany and Australia. You just got to love Sweden's unbiased law :rolleyes: "In 1999, Sweden made it legal to sell sex but illegal to buy it—only the johns and the traffickers can be prosecuted." And the U.S. sticking its misquided nose in where it doesn't belong: "..and proposals to make prostitution legal in countries like Bulgaria, a movement that the U.S. government helped defeat. In 2004, the federal government expressed its position: "The United States government takes a firm stance against proposals to legalize prostitution because prostitution directly contributes to the modern-day slave trade and is inherently demeaning." Anyway, the reasoning given by opponents for illegalization were shakey and feminist at best.

Why Is Prostitution Illegal?
The oldest question about the oldest profession.
By Emily Bazelon
Posted Monday, March 10, 2008, at 7:12 PM ET
When he was attorney general, Eliot Spitzer had no trouble going after a "sophisticated prostitution ring." As governor, he apparently had no trouble patronizing one. The hypocrisy speaks for itself. But what about the oldest question about the oldest profession: Why, exactly, is prostitution illegal?

The case for making it against the law to buy sex begins with the premise that it's base and exploitative and demeaning to sex workers. Legalizing prostitution expands it, the argument goes, and also helps pimps, fails to protect women, and leads to more back-alley violence, not less. This fight over legalization has been waged in the last few years over international human-trafficking laws and proposals to make prostitution legal in countries like Bulgaria, a movement that the U.S. government helped defeat. In 2004, the federal government expressed its position: "The United States government takes a firm stance against proposals to legalize prostitution because prostitution directly contributes to the modern-day slave trade and is inherently demeaning." The government also claims that legalizing or tolerating prostitution creates "greater demand for human trafficking victims." And yet, prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada, a companion to other cherished vices.

You don't have to be a moralist or a prude to buy the argument for banning prostitution. But if you're so inclined, it's an easy one to take apart. Martha Nussbaum, a law and philosophy professor at the University of Chicago, argues that lots of work involves the sale of bodily services and that lots of the work that poor women do involves bad working conditions. For her, it's all about context—there's a big difference between a street worker controlled by a pimp and a high-end call girl who picks her own clients, and the real question is how to increase poor women's access to decent and safe work in general. Legalizing prostitution "is likely to make things a little better for women who have too few options to begin with," Nussbaum writes.

The extremely pricey outfit Spitzer apparently used looks like an example of the high-end trade Nussbaum would distinguish from low-rent street work. The further defense of such escort services is that prostitution is inevitable and that conditions will be better for everyone all around if it's regulated (more condoms, fewer beatings). This parallels the argument against Prohibition or in favor of drug legalization: Illegality puts the bad guys and their guns in control. Women who fear prosecution can't go to the police for help. Better to give women more recourse to head off abuse and even inspect brothels for health-code violations.

Would legalizing prostitution increase trafficking? Not necessarily. "By this logic, the state of Nevada should be awash in foreign sex slaves, leading one to wonder what steps the Justice Department is taking to free them," writer David Feingold noted dryly in Foreign Policy in 2005. Countries in which prostitution is legal—Australia, Germany, the Netherlands—aren't cesspools. On the other hand, they haven't seen the demand for prostitution drop off, either, and sometimes it rises.

That's a disappointment for advocates of legalization, and lately there's another favorite model. In 1999, Sweden made it legal to sell sex but illegal to buy it—only the johns and the traffickers can be prosecuted. This is the only approach to prostitution that's based on "sex equality," argues University of Michigan law professor Catharine MacKinnon. It treats prostitution as a social evil but views the women who do it as the victims of sexual exploitation who "should not be victimized again by the state by being made into criminals," as MacKinnon put it to me in an e-mail. It's the men who use the women, she continued, who are "sexual predators" and should be punished as such.

According to this Web site for the Women's Justice Center, Sweden's way of doing things is a big success. "In the capital city of Stockholm the number of women in street prostitution has been reduced by two thirds, and the number of johns has been reduced by 80%." Trafficking is reportedly down to 200 to 400 girls and women a year, compared with 15,000 to 17,000 in nearby Finland. Max Waltman, a doctoral candidate in Stockholm who is studying the country's prostitution laws, says that those stats hold up. He also said the police are actually going after the johns as ordered: In 2006, more than 150 were convicted and fined. (That might not sound like many, but then Sweden has a population of only 9 million.)

For feminists like MacKinnon (with whom Waltman works), this sure looks like the solution: Go after the men! Take down Eliot Spitzer and leave the call girls alone! On the other hand, the group SANS, for Sex Workers and Allies Network in Sweden, doesn't like the 1999 law. The network says it has brought more dangerous clients and more unsafe sex, rather than the other way around. Waltman says that there's a lot of debate in Sweden because some people inside and outside the industry still want straight-out legalization but that no systematic studies have shown that the law has made sex work worse or riskier.

In the end, this seems like the most salient question: Forget Eliot Spitzer. Shouldn't prostitution laws come down to working conditions—and the laws that would lead to better ones for sex workers? According to a recent working paper (PDF) by economist Steven Levitt and anthropologist Sudhir Venkatesh, despite all the fighting and all the preaching, we apparently don't know that much about the specifics of the structure of the sex market—how much prostitutes make on average, how many tricks they turn a year, how frequently they and their pimps and johns actually get arrested.

To start filling in the gap, Levitt and Venkatesh looked at data from the Chicago Police Department. They found that women working the streets were making $27 an hour but less than $20,000 a year (they don't log a lot of hours). The risks of the trade were serious: "an annual average of a dozen incidents of violence and 300 instances of unprotected sex." There was also a "surprisingly high prevalence of police officers demanding sex from prostitutes in return for avoiding arrest." That looks like another argument against the bans on prostitution—presumably women wouldn't be caught in this particular trap if they weren't worried about going to jail in the first place. Levitt and Venkatesh also offer up this statistic: Prostitutes get arrested about once per 450 tricks, and johns even less frequently. Two lessons here: 1) A law that isn't being enforced much may not be worth having; and 2) Eliot Spitzer looks really, really unlucky.
 

taiyuu_otoko

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
5,254
Reaction score
3,842
Location
象外
ketostix said:
Anyway, the reasoning given by opponents for illegalization were shakey and feminist at best.
The real reason for the illegalization of prostitution is because we are still at the tail end of a society that, up until 50 years or so ago, treated women as property. Many countries didn't even allow women to vote until the last century. Overall legalization of hooking would be an open admission that women are in fact NOT property, and that they own themselves. Despite what some of you may think, the "natural order" of things is NOT one masculine man with one feminine woman. It is ONE Masculine ALPHA man with about 20 feminine women, and bunch of AFC's hanging out hoping for sloppy seconds. If hooking was made legal, it would really mess up the collectivly created 10,000 year old AFC favorable one-man one-woman matrix.

As far as that dumb ass dude who got busted, what a moron. If you wanna get some, just put on a fake beard and baseball cap and go to your local rub-n-tug, they know what they're doing. 5K? Jeeeeezuz.
 

Desdinova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
11,663
Reaction score
4,731
I agree that prostitution should be legalized. Instead of jacking up our property taxes again, legalize prostitution and tax that. Hell, legalize marijuana and tax that too. There's lots of revenue to be had from those two alone. Unfortunately, our government wastes our tax money and the fvcking property tax will go up anyway. :rolleyes:
 

Silvertip

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Constitutionally, one could make a great case for legalizing prostitution. The penumbras and emenations of the Third, Fourth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution would all support legalization.
 

bigjohnson

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
2,442
Reaction score
37
Bussey said:
The reason it is illegal is because you can't control it like you can a physical product. You can't put it into a store, keep inventory on it and TAX IT!
How do they put my lawn guy on a store shelve and tax him?


ketostix said:
I just thought of a prostitution legal loophole/business adventure for high class prostitution. Have the customer pay his fee, sign a release to be recorded, then set up a video recorder, and after it's done hand him the tape. Now it's magically no longer prostitution but art:D.
I thought of this yesterday too, but I was thinking one could set up the "set" and automate the digital chain such that there was a photo-CD and DVD ready to take by the time the "actor" was ready to leave. The artist release could state that neither party was free to release the "art" and there is a CD capable shredder on the way out just in case the actor isn't "pleased with his performance".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top