What to do to rescue a marriage

[Challenger]

Hi,
many of you know the "game" of dating, sex, getting to know women etc. and so do I due to this website and forum!

That's why over time I got to know a really wonderful, beaufitful etc. woman who I married and moved together with. I live with her now for around 1 1/2 years in one small flat and many things have changed, btw. got worse, since we moved togehter.

The big "killer" in our relationship is not another man or woman but the everday life. Things were getting the same every day .. eating, washing dishes, sex, talking , earting washing dishes ...


And now, what I never expected before, our relationship is really bad and I have thoughts with breaking up and I know she has these thoughts as well. We rarely have sex at all, we are not doing many things together anymore, we don't have common friends and hobbies ....

But she is the best what ever happend to me and I never me somebody like her before. We had a really hard time in the past which we managed together and got out of many difficult situations successfully.
I love and adore, but I don't want to loose her! But what to do? All these DJ games which work great if you want to get to know somebody, don't seem to work in such a relationship! I tried to be colder , warmer .. showing more or less attention .. buying presents .. don't buy presents .... everything just seem to worsten the situation. Especially the "playing to be cold and distaned".

She told me I should not so much consentrate on her and more go out without her .. getting friends and stuff .. I did this in the last time and wasn't home before 23.00 everyday ... But this didn't do anything at all to improve out relationship .. I just feel that the distance got bigger again ..

I think surely one omportant problem is that don't have something like a common hobby or friends where we can share positive feelings .. but just talk about washing dishes and stuff ... But the strange thing is she doesn't want that I get to know her friends! and we don't find a hobby that is cheap and we both like.

I don't want to give up the person who i loved most in the world and nothing bad has happend (we haven't cheated on each other, nobody betrayed etc...)

Hast anybody experiences with long term relationship (especiall when you live together) and how to gain back passion and improve the relationship? Thanks

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Things like this don't happen overnight. More than likely your relationship is in this state because the two of you stopped doing the things that attracted you to one another, it's a big mistake that couples unintentionally do.

Your best bet is to treat your situation with the importance and urgency that it deserves. This means stop attempting to get your answers online and go seek professional help. If you're lucky, your wife may still be interested in rebuilding the relationship. Talk to her, tell her how important this is to you and go get help together.

 

[Bible_Belt]

It's not easy to keep the spark. It all seems to come down to whether or not it is still fun to be together.

 

[marge s.]

Hi Challenger,

I'm in a similiar situation. I live with my partner for about two years now. We have moved around a lot over those two years and are now in a situation where we have to settle, find friends and sort out what we want. There was talk about getting married at some stage but this has been kind of 'forgotten'. By now I'm not sure anymore if I want to get married to him and I know he feels the same way.

As you describe it, I think one of our problem is that we don't have the same friends/hobbies/etc. He doesn't want to come when I meet my friends. I don't feel comfortable in his group of people... In fact we hardly spend time together, since we're busy studying and working. I can't recall when we last just went out for a beer. Sex ... perhaps once a month. He is working on a major career change, i.e. money is short and work plenty.

I feel sometimes very distant to him as if he has so much stuff on his mind that I somewhat can't reach him anymore. No doubts that I still love him, and no doubts that he loves me either... No other men, women involved. But at some point the spark seem to have left us. We were talking about seperate flats for a while but it was me pulling back because I fear that it will only widen the gap. Perhaps that was the wrong decision... I don't know.

It makes me sad to see this relationship just slowly 'fading away', because that's what it feels like. But you know, you alone can't change things. Don't play games, talk with your wife! I wish my partner would talk with me instead of pretending everything is just fine. This is actually the worst thing for me... the feeling that this relationship isn't important enough for him to do something he dislikes (relationship-talk... *yuck*).

Good luck to you!
marge

 

[WaterTiger]

The big "killer" in our relationship is not another man or woman but the everday life. Things were getting the same every day .. eating, washing dishes, sex, talking , earting washing dishes ...

The Russian writer Anton Chekov once said: "Any idiot can handle a crisis, it's the day to day living that wears you down." He was very right. So...DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT! Buy a stack of paper plates and have a pic-nic in the livingroom! (Cuts dishwashing time by 15 min!) Go out to McDonalds, take a Saturday and just DRIVE, do a weekend at a Bed and Breakfast if you can afford it.

BREAK UP THE MONOTONY BEFORE IT KILLS THE MARRIAGE. Go look up the "cool first dates" thread. Francisco was right in telling you that you two stopped doing the things that attracted you to each other in the first place. I also support his idea to find counciling.

But the strange thing is she doesn't want that I get to know her friends!

Okay...this one bugs me. I see it as a red flag. When one partner doesn't want the spouse hanging around their friends it looks like they are hiding something. Not that she's doing anything wrong, but if my husband told me that he didn't want me chatting with his friends...I'd start wondering why.

 

[MacAvoy]

I like WaterTiger's idea to break up the monotony and date again. However, I've got another idea that just might work. Do the thing that got her in the first place. Make her attractive to you.

Stop focussing on the marriage and trying to make it right and just live a happy life. Now this is the key part. Start doing things without her. Go out with friends and have a blast. She'll remember what a fun guy you can be, she'll think to herself "hey thats the guy I fell in love with" I want to spend time with him.

That is the problem with LTR's. You drop all your plates and put all your eggs in one basket. Well I'm not saying go run around with other women (normally I suggest this but your married so I'll show some morals, not much but some) but go out there and be with other people. Expand your social circle. Make a conscious effort to make new friends. Don't just go out with the guys either, make it unisex, that way she can opt to join in.

I guarantee that if you do this, your marriage will improve. A marriage is the sum of two parts. Right now your in a rut and negativity feeds more negativity. So change what you can change, yourself. It will spread like cancer - in a good way in this case.

If you doubt this will work, ask yourself this "How many women do you know left their man because he was a happy outgoing guy?" Treat yourself right and everything will fall into place. She has the right idea about maintaining her friends, however she's going about it wrong to exclude you. So be the man, go out have a great time and if she wants to join in, by all means invite her.

Remember moderation in all excess in none. So don't start acting like your single and go out every night with your new friends but a couple times a week, then do a couple spontaneus date nights, and voila your home free.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Ahh,..time again for some DJ math.

CHALLENGER, according to your user profile you're 19 years old. First, that's much too young to be posting on the Mature forum, and quite honestly I think your post is so much horesh!t, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt before I close this thread. So here's the DJ math: At 19, if you've married and lived with this girl for the last year and a half, this would mean you were married at 17 and a half. Does this send any red flags up for anyone here?

Now, just for the sake of argument (and because I'm a consumate statistician), lets assume you haven't changed your age since your join date which was March of 2002, add 4 years and you're still 23. Again, much too young to post on this forum and this would still put you at 21 and a half when you married/moved in with this girl. Add to this your complete lack of details and vague descriptions of your 'marital problems' and you can see why I'm skeptical here. But again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're fishing for common platitudes and affirmations based on generalities about "how a marriage should be." Any fool who's watched Oprah or Dr. Phil long enough will regurgitate the age old adage "well son, you gotta keep things fresh. spice things up ya know?" This is bullsh!t for the same reason 'Just Be Yourself' is bullsh!t - it sounds like the right thing to say when we have no idea what to say or we're not in full possession of the facts (which you've already proved to be hiding here).

But your problem isn't "keeping things fresh" now is it? No, your problem is that you got married while you were still a child. You have no prior experience to base your judgements on so statments like,

many of you know the "game" of dating, sex, getting to know women etc. and so do I due to this website and forum!

That's why over time I got to know a really wonderful, beaufitful etc. woman who I married and moved together with.

are kind of meaningless don't you think? We know damn well this isn't true. So why did you marry this girl? Did you knock her up? What have you done with your life up to this point? Even if you're 23 and married since you were 21, what are you doing now for yourself? Want to give us some more details here on your "marriage" or are you just going to remain nebulous and forget to post here again once someone affirms your regrets. Here, let me do it for you now so we can get around it and go to work;

"Oh I'm sorry CHALLENGER, women really suck sometimes, but just keep it fresh and pander to her sense of spontanetiy, and drive yourself insane trying to come up with some vague new twist (which I wont elaborate on because I have no idea myself) every week to maintain your marriage. All of the responsibility for this is on your shoulders afterall, God forbid your wife actually sopntaneously have some semblance of desire for you or come up with, again, some vague new twist in your love life. It's OK little fella, things will get better soon, Just Be Yourself."

Feel better now?

 

[Challenger]

Rollo Tomassi, funny stuff you wrote there. I really enjoyed reading it )) I would love to explain things a bit better, because you have been so kind ))

I just have one general problem with your post and that is that you categories young married people as not mature. If you say that that there is really no sense in talking. But if you could overcome your prejudices, this may be an interesting discussion.

To answer the your implicit "question" why didn't I post e.g. in the "DJ Forum" -> simply look at the topics here at the moment:
Girl Birps in front of you...
GF : I sense bad news, what do I do?
Go to first new post Does it look bad to enter a bar by yourself??
Go to first new post Going Clubbing Tonite
VERY IMPORTANT TIP about MYSPACE
How do you arouse her?
(Time 21:44)

Dear "Rollo Tomassi", please answer me: Do you think my ask for advice are really better off in another forum here on sosuave or don’t belong to this forum at all?

still put you at 21 and a half when you married/moved in with this girl.

You have counted rightly. I was 21 when I married her. You are completed right, this is my first marriage and I am inexperienced, but that's also the reason why I came here! Not to get a psychological analysis of our marriage but to get a few ideas/hints about what to do before going to somebody professional which we have considered already.

Add to this your complete lack of details and vague descriptions of your 'marital problems' and you can see why I'm skeptical here. But again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You are right here, as well. I did this with intention, because, like you know, a marriage is not something which you can describe and analyze in a few lines. I had to find a way to just mention a part of it. My hope was that If somebody has got good specific questions he would so I can extend on one or more topics/themes/problems.

You're fishing for common platitudes and affirmations based on generalities about "how a marriage should be."

Ja, this is right as well!! BUT like I have stated, I hoped this to be just the beginning, I wanted to get more specifically later on in a discussion. And I thought this is the right place for that. Also like there are common dating rules which work in many cases, the problem of a marriage are often not uncial, but like the post of "marge s." showed can be similar. By the way the same with diseases: physiological and physical: You have medicine or a therapy for something because 304930490 people had this decease before you.

Any fool who's watched Oprah or Dr. Phil long enough will regurgitate the age old adage "well son, you gotta keep things fresh. spice things up ya know?"

We don't have guys like that and I am not from an English speaking country. But If it's like this and I don't understand the whole purpose of the forum!? I mean like 60% of the post (at least) or about: Be a Man, Go Out, Be funny and cooky ......

But like I said what I wanted were not lines like this but specific questions. Unfortunately you didn’t ask them but just tried to be superior to me by showing your age.

This is bullsh!t for the same reason 'Just Be Yourself' is bullsh!t - it sounds like the right thing to say when we have no idea what to say

I absolutely agree. This line never helped anybody in ages.

or we're not in full possession of the facts (which you've already proved to be hiding here).

Which facts would be helpful / what do you need to know to give a more specific advice? I would love to tell, but I cannot tell you my whole relationship from the beginning to know.

But your problem isn't "keeping things fresh" now is it? No, your problem is that you got married while you were still a child. You have no prior experience to base your judgements on so statments like,

Again, I got married when I was 21 ... I think even you have been 21 at some time and made your first experiences and also married some when for the first time!? But I can tell you why I got married so early and we didn’t stayed affianced for a longer time: I wanted to stay together with her and she wanted to stay together with me. The problem is she is a foreigner and the only way we could stay together was marriage.

Want to give us some more details here on your "marriage" or are you

I would love to give you more details, I already have (with this post) and I will tell you more. I just would welcome more rational questions to do this properly.

So mainly there are two possibilities I think: declare me as mature enough because of my age (23) and maybe due to the fact that my English is not so great, or ask me questions and let people profit of your experience.

 

[penkitten]

why doesnt she want you to know her friends?
why doesnt she want to go places with you?
why arent you two having sex anymore?

has some other man replaced you on the side?

 

[Bible_Belt]

I was wondering the same thing, penkitten.

Even if she does not cheat regularly, the guilt can subtlely and slowly crush the relationship.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Alright kid, you've peaked my interest. You are a textbook example of why I constantly tell guys never to even consider monogamy until they're 30 nuch less marriage. You're stuck in neutral now and I could give you a thousand reason why couples who marry between 18 and 23 statistically have a 90% divorce rate in western culture, but that's not what's going to help you now, so I'll be as constructive as I can now.

It never ceases to amaze me how readily divorced women (and somtimes thrice divorced) are to dispense tips on the makings for a great marriage. Or more fascinating, to hear pvssywhipped husbands parrot these same lines. Divorced guy's marriage advice is usually "just don't get married." So allow me to toss in my two cents here.

I've been married to a gorgeous, fun and loving woman for 10 years now and we've got fantastic, whip-smart 8 year old daughter. I'm no trying to gloss myself, but I'm inclined to say I've got a pretty good marriage. In those 10 years I have yet to have a guy tell me he's getting more sex now than when he was single or dating his wife, but sex isn't the issue - desire is the root of your problem.

As I've said in many previous threads, properly motivated women will move across the country, crawl under barb wire and out a 2 story window to fvck a guy she has the genuine desire to fvck. This apples equally to your wife of 1.5 years. Before marriage women look for ways to get laid with a guy they want to marry; after marriage they look for ways to avoid it, but it's desire that motivates it. Chris Rock says it best when he goes into sex after marriage - "I haven't fvcked in 8 years. I've had 'intercourse', but I haven't fvcked since I got married. I haven't had a blow_job in 8 years. I've had 'fellatio' but I haven't had my d!ck sucked in 8 years." This is the essence of desire after marriage; it becomes another chore to add to a woman's to-do list. Get the kids to soccer practice, go get groceries, fvck her husband and fold the laundry. Add a fulltime job to that list and sleep becomes the new sex. But it's not about being tired or overwhelmed, it's about desire. My wife works a night shift at a hospital and if she came in at 2am and woke me up telling me she felt like having sex I could be in the deepest REM sleep and wake up to knock it out with her and be ready to go for two, because I want to have sex with her. Women love to play the "but I really want to, I'm just not into it now" card to counter this, but like any good DJ, never forget it's her behavior that defines intent, not her words. Remember, a woman will fvck; she might not fvck you, she might not fvck me, but she will fvck somebody. She just needs to be properly motivated.

All of those precondtions she had for you to accept YOUR offer of marriage - a good job, be a good provider, a good listener, be funny, have status, being reliable, a good pyshique; all of that does nothing to increase her desire to have sex with you. The single, bachelor DJ is concerned with Interest Levels the married Dj should be concerned with Desire Levels.

So how do you prompt this Desire? How do you get a woman who knows every intimate detail about you properly motivated to fvck you like she did when you were 18? Women will cry, "more romance!" and men will roll their eyes and murmer "alcohol." Put out of your head right now all of these feminine-correct notions that you need to "rekindle the fire" or find some gimmicky ritual that will lead you back to that desire she picked up from some article in Cosmo - I've gone down that road before. 'Date Night' is a band aid for a symptom of a disease and this is a prolonged lack of Desire. There is nothing worse than going through the motions of a pre-planned, pre-scripted, 'date-like-you-used-to-have' only to have your wife lay on the bed like a dead fish. No amount of opportunity (which is what a date night is, scheduled opportunity) will lead to her wanting to have sex with you.

It's not about frequency, it's about quality. Frequency declines after marriage, it's just logistics (especially after kids), but spontanety doesn't have to. Would your wife fvck you in the car like she did when you were dating? Would she be up for fvcking you outdoors if you were hiking together somewhere? Would she be down for anything kinky that she hasn't done before or is it all just 'vanilla' sex now? Here's a list of things you should do froma a man's point of view:

Make her want it
SInce you've been married she probably feels pretty secure with you and whatever degree of control she has in regards to regulating the flow of sex. Make her uncomfortable. As counterintuitive as it sounds, this is the single most important advantage you can take. Begin to incrementally take the power that her intimacy has had sway over you for the past few years back from her. When you were unmarried even the slightest bit of anxiety that she may be put off for another, better prospect than herself prompted that desire to fvck you better than the others might be.

Most important though is to do this covertly. If you go popping off about how you're taking your balls back and she'd better shape up or you'll be looking for a woman who is into fvcking you, you're dead in the water. You have to imply with your attitude and behavior that somethng's changed in you. The best DJ principle to remember in marriage is that you will only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done before.

The power of the 'takeaway'
In one form or another DJs use the takeaway to mold behavior. This is behavioral psychology 101, reinforce the behaviors you want and punish the ones you don't, all the time remembering that too much reward leads to satiation and cesation of the desired behavior. Don't buy your wife flowers in order to get her to fvck you, buy them AFTER she's performed accordingly and to your satisfaction. So many married men I know (even in their 60s ) still atempt to purchase sex from their wives by 'allowing' them to buy expensive things thinking it will lead to 'appreciation sex'. In reality it will invariably lead to expected and desireless 'debt sex'. Remember, the pool boy that your wife cheats on you for didn't buy her a goddamn thing to make her want to fvck him.

Your attention is your best tool in this regard. One thing I tell AFCs on this forum is not to give away the farm on the first date and that women are by nature attention craving. When you give away your attention without her having to earn it, it devalues your attention. This is a paradox in marriage because it's understood that she 'should' have 100% of your attention and after years of marriage there is zero mystery about you. When you begin to take away attention she's grown accustomed to, she will seek it. And again you must do this covertly as she will respond to it coverty. You have to be sensitive to the adjustments she makes in her attention seeking, in conversation, in posture, in habit and behavior, becasue she wont overtly tell you "oh please pay attention to me." This will add to her desire to have sex with you in order to reaffirm this attention. Sex then becomes a reinforcer for her in this attention seeking which you can then use to modify her behavior - in this case being genuine desire.

Other forms of the takeaway may include certain regularities she's grown used to over the years that she takes for granted. One of these is a regular kiss. I used this to a great effect with my own wife. I would regularly come home from work and go kiss my wife as soon as I saw her, she became accustomed to this and after a few years I came to realize that I was like a puppydog in this regard, immmediately seeking affection as soon as I got home so I began to take this away. Eventually she covertly recognized this and began to greet me at the door with a kiss. She was prompted to desire that connection by a takeaway.