What did the devil do to earn his repuation?

The Truth

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I'm not looking to start a religious discussion here, I would just like to know some Biblical facts from someone more knowledgeable than myself.

I was having a discussion with some friends about Satanism and how REAL satanists do not worship evil at all, but instead perceive Satan as a good force that offered freedom and choice and salvation from God's tyranny.

When we thought about it, none of us could recall Satan doing anything evil in the Bible. He tempted Jesus and tried to talk people away from following God, but I don't remember hearing of him harming or killing anyone (unlike God).

Satan seemed to get his reputation more from horror tales, myths and urban legends, much like witches and vampires.

I know that devils existed in religions before the Bible, but Satan/Lucifer etc first appeared in the Bible so is therefore a Jewish/Christian creation. But at what point was he declared "evil" and what dreadful act or acts did he do to earn that reputation? Or was he merely an opponent of God?
 

PheonixUK

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In the book of Job, Satan persuaded god to torture one of god's most devout worshippers

thats pretty evil
 

bbestar

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Book of Isaiah

Chapter 14 Verse 12, 13, 14


How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Book of Ezekiel

Chapter 28 Verse 17


Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
 

KillaCam

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The devil is a pretty cool guy, you just need to get to know him ;)

Learn something new everyday!
 

Helter Skelter

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The Truth said:
I'm not looking to start a religious discussion here, I would just like to know some Biblical facts from someone more knowledgeable than myself.

I was having a discussion with some friends about Satanism and how REAL satanists do not worship evil at all, but instead perceive Satan as a good force that offered freedom and choice and salvation from God's tyranny.

When we thought about it, none of us could recall Satan doing anything evil in the Bible. He tempted Jesus and tried to talk people away from following God, but I don't remember hearing of him harming or killing anyone (unlike God).

Satan seemed to get his reputation more from horror tales, myths and urban legends, much like witches and vampires.

I know that devils existed in religions before the Bible, but Satan/Lucifer etc first appeared in the Bible so is therefore a Jewish/Christian creation. But at what point was he declared "evil" and what dreadful act or acts did he do to earn that reputation? Or was he merely an opponent of God?

The Truth, if you want the truth why study fiction. Gods and devils were created by humans who knew nothing about our history or science. Ignorance ruled the world back in the day. Many people still can't let go, however
 

Eccentric

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Helter Skelter said:
The Truth, if you want the truth why study fiction. Gods and devils were created by humans who knew nothing about our history or science. Ignorance ruled the world back in the day. Many people still can't let go, however
I think religion is a conspiracey from the ancient times. It's massive control to a degree. It uses the same concepts as a dictator, fear. It tells you what to do, what not to do. If you dont believe what's written, you go to some form of hell (fear). Religion claims to be peaceful. The bloodiest wars have all been tied to religion. Even today with terrorism. These nuts kill hundreds of innocent people because they go to heaven, supposedly filled with virgins. :rolleyes:

I think it was George Carlin who had a quote in his standup:

"Do you believe in God?" - - No. "Boom, dead."

"Do you believe in God?" - - Yes. "My God?" - - No. "Boom, dead."

It's all about the power to control, money, and politics. Its what keeps the strong stronger, and the weak weaker. Religion is the fuel that keeps this process moving. It's a nasty world we live in. But people just choose to look at the greener grass.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I bet someone posts here telling me I'm out of my f'n mind. See, a one sided view. Where the grass is greener. They're opinion is right, mine is wrong. The same type of close minded views that will lead to WW3, 4, and 5 if we dont destroy ourselves by that time.
 

S1NN3R

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city_guy said:
science proven that the first bible wad actually written by a women(found female DNA)but her husband had warned her not to let the public view it or know about it so she got killed and so the husband and other ancient men started making people beleive she decided to call the devil a man because she thought man are evil and its man world.
This has got to be some of the most idiotic bullsh!t ever written on the subject.

A) There is no "first bible". There is an "oldest known still in existance", it's called the "Codex Sinaiticus", and it dates to somewhere between 200-300 AD, which is still up to a century before the Nicean text was finalized.

B) The bible was not written by one woman, nor was it written by one man. It's current rendition was compiled in 323 AD by the Council of Nicea from hundreds and hundreds of different and free-standing religious texts. To say that the bible was written by a woman would equate to saying that the dictionary was written by a woman. In other words, complete nonsense.

C) Everything you wrote is utter tosh and not a single word in your post is in any way representative of accepted history. You should research a bit more. No scientifically sound study has ever claimed that the "first bible was written by a woman". You might have read it from some crack-nut Christian's blog, but don't believe everything you read. Kinda like you said....

Just because many people read something and believe it doesnt mean its true
 

Slevin

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I guess what I posted never happened in history yet I found many resources to back up my post.
Why don't you post one of those resources?
 

The Truth

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Careful about any heated discussions or this thread will be closed.

Anyway, thanks for the quotes about the devil, but I still don't see him doing anything evil. Usually it seems like God is the one doing the evil things (killing and maiming) and blaming the devil. Or the devil tempts someone (i.e. Eve) and God punishes them for it.

All the murders, torture and mass genocide is done by God and it's usually because people refuse to obey him. Satan on the other hand doesn't seem that bad.

Anyway, I personally don't believe in Satan or God or the Bible, but I'm just trying to understand Satanism as a legitimate religion. It sounds a lot like Satanists have been discriminated against in the same way Pagans were, and religious propoganda had turned it into something cruel and evil, when it's actually a peaceful religion.
 

S1NN3R

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First off, let's just pretend that this crackerjack theory you read somewhere had any merit to it what so ever (which it doesn't, but I'll pretend for your sake). Some older-than-time bible that no real historian has ever heard about has female DNA on it. That means only that sometime in the last 2000+ years that at some point, a woman has come in contact with it. It doesn't mean that some woman sat down and went all Charlotte Bronte and wrote the whole thing by herself. And somehow, "the making of" was included with this older-than-time woman's bible, so everyone can know that the writer drew little pictures of god in addition to her writing career, and then gives a poignant posthumous story of how she died and what everyone around her decided to do afterwards. How convenient. And
bullsh!t.

Actually their is a trace of the first bible,its just the media or sociaty has brainwashed your stupid thinking."Codex sinaticus"that didnt come out first.First of all the first language was spoken in a indigiues way so that word couldnt be the name,plus tell me where your getting the facts from.200-300AD?wtf come on man science traced that female DNA way bakk before they even had timelines or dates record go search it up.
http://www.bl.uk/news/2005/pressrelease20050311.html
An ambitious international project to reinterpret the oldest Bible in the world, the Codex Sinaiticus, and make it accessible to a global audience using innovative digital technology and drawing on the expertise of leading biblical scholars is officially launched today.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4739369.stm
A manuscript containing the oldest known Biblical New Testament in the world is set to enter the digital age and become accessible online.

A team of experts from the UK, Europe, Egypt and Russia is currently digitising the parchment known as the Codex Sinaiticus, believed originally to have been one of 50 copies of the scriptures commissioned by Roman Emperor Constantine after he converted to Christianity.
But yeah, the BBC is just screwing with people, right? It's just left wing spin-doctoring by one of the world's largest and most trusted news agencies. That must be it. It's also just domb luck that when you google search "oldest known bible", your cute little story is nowhere to be found. That's a pretty in depth cover-up, how did you crack it? :rolleyes:


The Dead Sea Scrolls are technically the oldest known verifiable biblical writings in existance today, but since it's just a collection of various works from that time period of 200 BC-61 AD, it's not really considered a "bible" in the regular sense of the word. It contained many books not in the bible, and didn't have many of the most important ones. The earliest thing we have that resembles the bible as it is today is, as I said before, the Codex Sinaiticus which includes most of the text from both the New and Old Testament.


Then who wrote it?It was written by a human being who was in living in a time of MEN's world,science arleady have traced the DNA of that person who wrote the ancient scripture of the bible,and it traced to a young(could define her race)female around mid 20s who got killed bye her husband.
My point is that it was not written by one single person, but compiled from the writings of hundreds of people over many centuries. This woman killed by her husband crap is a total fallacy. Quote your source, let's see where you pulled this stuff from.


scientifically proven the first bible was written by a woman they found her DNA on it too and it matched everything she even drew a picture of A GOD but she got killed so nobody knows were the picture is.
So this was supposedly from "way bakk before they even had timelines or dates record", but somehow they know her age, who killed her, what she sketched in her spare time (even though they don't know where the picture is), the conversation her husband had about her after she died, and all that stuff? They can know all of that, but they can't come up with a date? Please.

Christian blog,hhhah good one first of all this is applying to all religion not only Christian,GOD is not for christian belifies he/she is also for muslism but different meaning.
Yeah, see here's the thing. You can't apply "all religion" to a discussion about the bible, because the bible is a Christian thing, with the Old Testament being shared with Judaism and Islam (the Abrahamic religions). All of the rest of the religions of the world don't use the bible. Satan/Lucifer is an Abrahamic ideal. It's not Buddhist, it's not aboriginal, it's not Oriental. It's Abrahamic. Sure some others have a parallel ideal, but Satan/Lucifer is exclusively Abrahamic.

You don't want to play this game with me, I minored in Religious Studies. You will lose.
 
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KillaCam

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S1NN3R, that is definately taking ownage to a new level.

Touche oh knowledgable one ;)
 

Nighthawk

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The short answer is John Milton's Paradise Lost. 'Satan' is barely in The Bible, and seems to be working for God. It was the medieval mystery plays that played up the manichistic devil/god schism because it was effective in (mis)selling Christianity, and Milton who added all the 'proud angel gets kicked out of Heaven' story.

This is a good book on the subject

http://www.librarything.com/card_social.php?work=94054
 

Unregistered

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An interesting book on the subject is Elaine Pagel's The Origin of Satan.

The original term Satan meant obstruction, or obstacle.
 

wavejams007

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truth, religion and god is not like V for vandetta or some conspiracy theory like that. ouy have to check out several aspects of god and satan in order to get the clear picture of it.
 
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