We can now make Gasoline from Air!

backseatjuan

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Vantagepoint34

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backseatjuan said:
British scientists now know how to make gasoline from air: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120241-British-Scientists-Make-Gasoline-From-Air
:up:

Give them air and water and that is made into ethanol, and then into 93 octane.

Technology that can save the world from doomsday scenario world wide depopulation, and bankrupt oil companies world over. Interesting to see if it's going to become anything big.
speaking about alternate fuel there are two things that can be done. One of them is to attach a propane tank to the back of your SUV to get 30 mpg. Which can be done in Peru. The other country is Brazil who now converts soy to ethanol. Crazy innovations in the world of tomorrow. :up:
 

Burroughs

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"Apparently, this technology has existed for some time and been achievable, being based on already known principles. Air Fuel Synthesis, however, is the first to actually put all the pieces together and show it can work."

Its one thing to test experimentally another thing to industrialize

Industrialization means the elites must approve....and with this they will not

Just like they keep solar and wind to a bare minimum for cosmetic reasons

Energy, like food is the means the elite control the planet...they are not going to give that power up anytime soon.
 

Deep Dish

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On face value, converting air into fuel holds promise, but the key scientific question is energy efficiency, since there is always energy loss during production and combustion. We could have cars running on hydrogen, for example, but we don’t because the energy efficiency is neither feasible nor sustainable.
 

Burroughs

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Deep Dish said:
we don’t because the energy efficiency is neither feasible nor sustainable.
or perhaps that is the propaganda being laid out.

remember humans are inherently lazy....tyrants know this, so they set up a status quo based on false information knowing few men bother to search for truth if the road is arduous.
 

backseatjuan

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Energy efficiency is another bull we are being lied to. Solar and wing can generate electricity, and that can generate hydrogen. Bah, and hydrogen power doesn't seem such a bad idea anymore.
 

Deep Dish

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No matter how it’s been made, hydrogen has no energy in it. It is the lowest energy dense fuel on earth.

...At some point along the chain of making, putting energy in, storing, and delivering the hydrogen, we will have used more energy than we can get back, and this doesn’t count the energy used to make fuel cells, storage tanks, delivery systems, and vehicles. When fusion can make cheap hydrogen, when reliable long-lasting nanotube fuel cells exist, and when light-weight leak-proof carbon-fiber polymer-lined storage tanks and pipelines can be made inexpensively, then we can consider building the hydrogen economy infrastructure. Until then, it’s vaporware. All of these technical obstacles must be overcome for any of this to happen. Meanwhile, the United States government should stop funding the Freedom CAR program, which gives millions of tax dollars to the big three automakers to work on hydrogen fuel cells. Instead, automakers ought to be required to raise the average overall mileage their vehicles get — the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard.

At some time in the future the price of oil and natural gas will increase significantly due to geological depletion and political crises in extracting countries. Since the hydrogen infrastructure will be built using the existing oil-based infrastructure (i.e. internal combustion engine vehicles, power plants and factories, plastics, etc.), the price of hydrogen will go up as well — it will never be cheaper than fossil fuels. As depletion continues, factories will be driven out of business by high fuel costs and the parts necessary to build the extremely complex storage tanks and fuel cells might become unavailable.

The laws of physics mean the hydrogen economy will always be an energy sink. Hydrogen’s properties require you to spend more energy than you can earn, because in order to do so you must overcome waters’ hydrogen-oxygen bond, move heavy cars, prevent leaks and brittle metals, and transport hydrogen to the destination. It doesn’t matter if all of these problems are solved, or how much money is spent. You will use more energy to create, store, and transport hydrogen than you will ever get out of it.

Any diversion of declining fossil fuels to a hydrogen economy subtracts that energy from other possible uses, such as planting, harvesting, delivering, and cooking food, heating homes, and other essential activities. According to Joseph Romm, a Department of Energy official who oversaw research on hydrogen and transportation fuel cell research during the Clinton Administration: “The energy and environmental problems facing the nation and the world, especially global warming, are far too serious to risk making major policy mistakes that misallocate scarce resources.

(ibid)​
This is all science and there is no arguing against science, unless you can prove better science.
 

Deep Dish

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There is one juxtaposition of quotes I want to ensure is highlighted:
backseatjuan:
Solar and wing (sic) can generate electricity, and that can generate hydrogen.
No matter how it’s been made, hydrogen has no energy in it. It is the lowest energy dense fuel on earth.​
I'm an environmentalist at heart but you have to keep your mind and heart grounded in science.
 

Bible_Belt

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I knew something was sketchy about hydrogen when George W Bush started talking about how great it was and that it could save the environment. It turns out that petroleum was the fuel being used to make the Hydrogen. Even Dubya was environmentally friendly when it meant more profits for oil companies.
 

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just wise up and quit having more than 1 kid per woman, and in a few years, population will drop, so will prices of oil. men are SO stupid to get involved in having kids. that's all a TRAP women use on suckers/men.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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any kind of new energy would disrupt the petro-dollar scam they got going on.

For that same reason, they ain't never gonna pump even near the oil they could outta the states. All them dollars'd come home and mess shyt up.

I believe Ayn Rand alluded to such an incident in "Atlas Shrugged." Something about a perpetual energy machine that lay in an unknown room somewhere rusting away.

You know what they say, build a better mousetrap, and the cats'll gang up on you.
 

Burroughs

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Deep Dish said:
but you have to keep your mind and heart grounded in science.

you must remember that 'science' is a tool of the elite

technologies prosper that are given grant money....grant money is provided by ultra elite organizations

if a 'science' is not funded it vanishes...

its as though it never existed

99% of scientists are unaware that they are slaves in a system...their mental arrogance keeps them locked into narrow thinking
 

Deep Dish

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Heresy Does Not Equal Correctness
They laughed at Copernicus. They laughed at the Wright brothers. Yes, well, they laughed at the Marx brothers. Being laughed at does not mean you are right. Wilhelm Reich compared himself to Peer Gynt, the unconventional genius out of step with society, and misunderstood and ridiculed as a heretic until proven right: “Whatever you have done to me or will do to me in the future, whether you glorify me as a genius or put me in a mental institution, whether you adore me as your savior or hang me as a spy, sooner or later necessity will force you to comprehend that I have discovered the laws of living” (in Gardner 1952, p.259). Reprinted in the January/February 1996 issue of the Journal of Historical Review, the organ of Holocaust denial, is a famous quote from the nineteenth-century German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, which is quoted often by those on the margins: “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.” But “all truth” does not pass through these stages. Lots of true ideas are accepted without ridicule or opposition, violent or otherwise. Einstein’s theory of relativity was largely ignored until 1919, when experimental evidence proved him right. He was not ridiculed, and no one violently opposed his ideas. The Schopenhauer quote is just a rationalization, a fancy way for those who are ridiculed or violently opposed to say, “See, I must be right”. Not so.

History is replete with tales of the lone scientist working in spite of his peers and flying in the face of the doctrines of his or her own field of study. Most of them turned out to be wrong and we do not remember their names. For every Galileo shown the instruments of torture for advocating a scientific truth, there are a thousand (or ten thousand) unknowns whose “truths” never pass muster with other scientists. The scientific community cannot be expected to test every fantastic claim that comes along, especially when so many are logically inconsistent. If you want to do science, you have to learn to play the game of science. This involves getting to know the scientists in your field, exchanging data and ideas with colleagues informally, and formally presenting your results in conference papers, peer-reviewed journals, books, and the like.

----

What happens when smart people may be smart in one field (domain specificity) but are not smart in an entirely different field, out of which may arise weird beliefs. When Harvard marine biologist Barry Fell jumped fields into archaeology and wrote a best-selling book, America BC: Ancient Settlers in the New World (1976), about all the people who discovered America before Columbus, he was woefully unprepared and obviously unaware that archaeologists had already considered his different hypotheses of who first discovered America (Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Phoenicians, etc) but rejected them for lack of credible evidence. This is a splendid example of the social aspects of science, and why being smart in one field does not make one smart in another. Science is a social process, where one is trained in a certain paradigm and works with others in the field. A community of scientists read the same journals, goes to the same conferences, reviews one anthers’ papers and books, and generally exchanges ideas about the facts, hypotheses, and theories in that field. Through vast experience they know, fairly quickly, which new ideas stand a chance of succeeding and which are obviously wrong. Newcomers from other fields, who typically dive in with both feet without the requisite training and experience, proceed to generate new ideas that they think—because of their success in their own field—will be revolutionary. Instead, they are usually greeted with disdain (or, more typically, simply ignored) by the professionals in the field. This is not because (as they usually think is the reason) insiders don’t like outsiders (or that all great revolutionaries are persecuted or ignored), but because in most cases those ideas were considered years or decades before and rejected for perfectly legitimate reasons.

—Excerpts from the science book Why People Believe Weird Things by science historian Michael Shermer​
 

taiyuu_otoko

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Burroughs said:
you must remember that 'science' is a tool of the elite

technologies prosper that are given grant money....grant money is provided by ultra elite organizations
They don't even have to be valid technologies. Take corn--> sugar--> fuel

For years, Brazil has been turning cane sugar into fuel with MUCH more efficiency than corn. (Sugar has about an 18:1 efficiency rate, while corn is about 1:1) Yet the U.S. still pours tons of tax dollars into corn ethanol, forces people to eat food sweetened with high fructose corn syrup, severely jacks up world grain prices, while the corn farmers and the sugar farmers benefit.

Yet ignorant environmentalists and the economically illiterate will treat you like a murderer if you openly oppose ethanol fuel, because that means you want to "destroy the environment"

For YEARS, second rate scientists knew they'd easily get EASY MONEY for half baked research projects if they just slipped "global warming" into the title somehow.

Effect of worm poop on fossilized dirt ---> NO GRANT MONEY

The relationship between global warming and worm poop ---> MILLIONS IN GRANT MONEY
 

Asterisk

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Deep Dish said:
No matter how it’s been made, hydrogen has no energy in it. It is the lowest energy dense fuel on earth.​
Two words; hydrogen BOMB
 

Down Low

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Why not kill two birds with one stone? Tear up the roads, reclaim the land into farms, and people can walk to their farm jobs.
 

Deep Dish

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Asterisk said:
Two words; hydrogen BOMB
Two words for you: Ignoratio elenchi.

Hydrogen is a carrier of energy, like a battery. Hydrogen is not itself a source of energy. The process of breaking bonds within molecules is not breaking atoms.
 

SJ413

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Asterisk said:
Two words; hydrogen BOMB
Atomic fusion? Am I right? Its been a while since I have dealt with any of this, or thought on it for that matter. Hydrogen is crap, at least with current tech. LPG isn't much better than gasoline in any way other than it burns much slower (burns like 107 octane iirc). Ethanol is a joke, well corn ethanol is anyway. It has a much higher a/f ratio than gasoline, what it exactly is, I cannot remember, but for every 20 miles you would use, say 1 gallon of gasoline, you may use 1.75 gallons of ethanol.

Not only that, but using corn as a source of methanol competes with food sources, which isn't a wise decision. If vehicles were built to run higher compression ratios, further advanced timing curves, yes, ethanol may not be a bad idea. But, trust me, the epa isn't going to let that happen.

Then there is biodiesel. Which makes the most sense of the bunch. Diesel in itself it very energy-dense, and deisel engines for the most part use it very effectively. But, once again, using soybeans as a natural oil source, competes with food crops. Amd to fuel a single car for an entire year, it would take several acres of soybean crops. I used to run waste cooking oil in one of my diesels with great success, but there is not enough to go around for everyone to do it, waste oil or otherwise.

Electric cars, while efficient, don't solve the use of petroleum products. Where does most of our electricity come from? Yup, you guessed it. If battery technology would advance farther though, electric vehicles may nor be a bad option.

All in all, there are tons of ideas out there, they just don't work on a mass scale. Regenerative braking is starting to arise in hybrids and electric vehicles, and that's a good solid step forward imo.
 
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