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Unplugging from The Matrix - Confusion, Fear and Anxiety

Findog

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I don't believe that it is always the case that if a man got dumped it was because he was too beta. I had this naive notion that if I did the things that I was supposed to do in a relationship, if I held up my end of the bargain, then I had nothing to worry about when it came to being dumped.

I started dating my ex two years ago when I was 31 and she had just turned 30. It ended at the one-year mark just over a year ago. She told me at the beginning that most of her relationships were short-term because the guys would annoy her and she had only two previous that lasted as long as a year. Her biological father abandoned her mom when she was pregnant and told her mom to get an abortion. Her mom remarried when she was 5. She was raised by her mom and stepdad and she said that they would fight all the time over her. Her stepdad is who she considers her real father, but she even expressed some resentment about him when we were together. In her early twenties she partied a lot and about seven years ago was arrested for possession of speed. After that she drastically changed her lifestyle habits.

Anyways we hit it off, had a great connection and chemistry, similar values, goals in life. We started talking marriage after several months. I have a card from her from Valentine’s Day where she writes “I have always been wondering when God would bring my future husband into my life and now I’ve found him. I know I will succeed in life with you as my husband by my side.” She sat her parents down and told them I was The One and I was different from all the other guys she’d ever dated. She told me throughout the time we were together that it was the best relationship she’d ever been in and I was the best guy she'd ever had. She even introduced me to her biological father, something she had never done with any guy she had ever dated before. Before me, she had had no contact with him for three years. After we started dating, she broke three years of silence and told him that there was somebody she wanted him to meet. Her parents wanted to meet mine after she sat them down and told them I was The One.

Six weeks before she dumped me she was emailing me suggestions for wedding venues and addressing me as her fiance. I remember going on a tour of a historical home with her and she tells the guide "We're going to get married and I want to know if you rent this space out for weddings and receptions." A month before she dumped me she reminded me that her parents really wanted to meet mine and didn't want to wait until the wedding. Two weeks before she dumped me we went to a jewelry convention to look at bands so I could get a better idea of what to get her. Five days before she dumped me she made a comment in an email about what kind of engagement ring she wanted. The last time I ever hung out with her and her parents was two months before the breakup. We're having dinner and she tells her mom in front of me "I was sitting out by the pool today after work and I kept thinking to myself 'You know, I really love that boy.'"

Last fall 2010 we were supposed to go to four weddings, all for her friends/family. We had already been to one. The last time I ever hung out with her was on a Thursday at her apartment. When I got there, I told her I had secured a job interview for Sunday for a second job to pay for the ring. That night while I was hanging out with her my mom called. My dad had driven home drunk from work and crashed his truck into her car in the driveway, totalling both vehicles. I left my ex there to help my mom take him to a rehab facility. So the next Saturday, we were supposed to go to another wedding for her friend, and I had let my mom borrow my car since my dad had wrecked both of theirs. My ex texts me at nine in the morning asking to come over. I thought it was weird that she wanted to come over so early.

This was exactly two weeks shy of our first anniversary. When she arrived, she came into my apt and said she doesn’t feel like she can love me the way I want to be loved and need to be loved. I tell her I don’t feel neglected by her. She said when I give her compliments and show her affection, she doesn’t feel like that person on the inside. She said she’s never been in a relationship longer than a year and she always does this. She said she doesn’t want to waste anymore of my time and make me go to weddings I don’t want to go to and don’t have to go to. I NEVER expressed any resentment about all these weddings for her friends/family and I told her this. The entire breakup conversation lasted about 20 minutes and she didn't say anything beyond what I already noted. The very last thing she said to me before walking out of my apartment was "You're everything I've ever wanted in a man, but I can't get married."

She's very religious and comes from a very conservative background. A couple of weeks before we broke up she made a very weird comment about how she wanted to go to heaven now. I was like “What the hell? Don’t you mean you want to go to heaven when you die? What about our future together? You’re not looking forward to that?” And she says “Don’t worry, I’m not suicidal, I’d just rather be there now.” There were also a few other occasions the last month we were together where she said she wished Jesus would come back already.

I never called/texted/emailed. The only two gestures I made post breakup were to send her flowers and I wrote her a snail letter. The snail letter was about two weeks after the breakup. I had some friends look it over first so I didn’t come across as pathetically begging to get back together or being hateful or spiteful. I basically just said that I respected her decision if she thought that was for the best, but that I thought what we had together was worth trying to save and that I wanted to try couples counseling. And if she didn’t want to do that, then we couldn’t be friends or remain in touch. Her response to that final letter was to maintain 3 months of radio silence and then this past January she emailed me during funeral preparations for my grandfather to ask for her bike back.

It was sad and weird seeing her again. The whole encounter lasted four minutes. I could tell she was genuinely glad to see me, but it felt like there was this invisible plane between us. I was told by all my friends and family to just keep it all business and only exchange pleasantries, don't cry in front of her, don't bring up the breakup, just be pleasant and polite and stay calm. And that's what I did. Last thing I said was “I just want to say take care of yourself, I wish you well, I will always care about you, and thank you for letting me be a part of your life.” And she said “Aww thank you” and then I told her goodbye and walked back to my apt.


I feel like most of my beliefs about women and relationships have been dislodged at the core. Not only do I feel like I have lost trust in women, but I feel like I have lost trust in myself. I am no longer confident that my instincts and judgment will serve to protect me. I know that she had a difficult childhood and a history of controllers, jerks and idiots that she used to date, but I came from a home with an alcoholic parent, and I had my own maturity issues in early adulthood. When I heard about her past (real dad abandoning her, mom and stepdad not modeling a good relationship, turbulent romantic history, the arrest), I thought it was about as relevant as mine, because she was stable and settled in her professional career, she went to church on a regular basis, she expressed a desire to settle down and get married, we seemed to be on the same page as far as goals and values in life. On a day to day basis things were stable and loving, there was not unnecessary drama or BS. Within the confines of the relationship, she was kind and loving and there didn't seem to be any red flags until the very end with the Heaven/Rapture comments. I honestly believed that I had found the person I was meant to be with and it was exactly the kind of relationship that I had been seeking.

I now understand that there is no such thing as relationship security, that a woman can leave at any time and it might not be logical or rational. I beat myself up for awhile after the breakup and played the woulda, coulda, shoulda game, but the feedback I got the entire time we were together was "You're the best, I love you so much, I want to marry you." I felt like I was being consistently rewarded for the way I treated her, and she never complained about anything or brought any relationship dissatisfaction to my attention, so what could I do differently? It didn't ultimately damage my self esteem because I know I'm a good guy and a catch and I've managed to casually date in the aftermath and have had plenty of rebound sex. She did not damage my self image or esteem. I certainly do believe that there are quality healthy women out there that will not flake or pull this kind of running routine, but I am worried that the kind of long-term relationship I want I will never find, because I don't know how to protect myself from running into this kind of woman in the future.

What makes a quality woman, a woman that wants to build a life together with you? I look at the kind of marriage my grandparents had (married 68 years, best friends, stuck together through thick and thin and raised four kids together, both just absolute gold as people and the kind of people I want to emulate) and I want that for myself, and I wonder if that is even possible at my age (33) and with the kind of women you encounter in my generation.

I suppose that unplugging from the matrix is necessary, but the experience I had with my ex frightens me. It scares me that I might end up in another relationship with somebody like her, it scares me to think that women like my grandmother I will not be able to find in my peer group, looking back at what I went through scares me.
 

window

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Hey probably what you did wrong in this situation is start talking about marriage with the girl after only several months. Next time you will know that a girl has to prove herself to you consistently over time and ideally has to ask you to marry her. But you dont even contemplate these decisions till after you've been with her for at least 2 years. Another thing you did is she became everything to you in your world. It shouldnt be like this because if they up and go you'll have nothing. Which can lead to all kinds of resentful emotions like anger, disbelief, irrational thinking, unable to understand why she left etc.

As for relationship security, a women should be able to leave at any time. What is important is that if she does you know you are going to be ok.
 

Die Hard

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Don't be kidding yourself, Findog. Your instincts and judgements will protect you just fine, if you allow them to!!

I've read a whole SH!TLOAD of red flags about this girl in your post. You say you don't know how to protect yourself from running into this kind of woman in the future... That's BULLSH!T.

Just look at the red flags and refrain from getting emotionally attached to a girl if she displays those red flags.

You are deluding yourself here, you are fooling yourself into believing that ANY woman could pull this stunt on you, like it is unforseeable and impossible to prevent it from happening. For some reason, you WANT things to be like this, you WANT to believe things work this way, while that is certainly not the case.

Why would you want to believe that? Well, probably coz it makes things easier for you. If things are out of your control, like it's just a matter of luck, then there is no need for you to make big efforts. After all, no matter how hard you would try to prevent yourself from being disappointed by relationships, it's all dependent on luck and chance anyway, right? So that means you can sit back and give up on fighting, just let the cards fall as they will.

In that regard it is quite tempting to believe things are out of your control, it takes a big burden of your shoulders. And I think you realize this deep down, which makes you inclined to delude yourself, thinking it's impossible to protect yourself from running into this kind of woman in the future. Deep down, you'd WISH that were true, so you don't have to take any responsibility for your hapiness or unhappiness, just attribute all of it to some outer force, beyond your control. The wish is father to the thought...

Time to man up and take responsibility. You definitely can protect yourself from running into this kind of woman in the future, you can protect yourself from getting disappointed in relationships. Unfortunately, it will require lots of hard work and effort...lots of blood, sweat and tears. So are you willing to put those in? If not, than you'd better go on and keep deluding yourself that it's all out of your control...
 

Findog

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Die Hard said:
Don't be kidding yourself, Findog. Your instincts and judgements will protect you just fine, if you allow them to!!

I've read a whole SH!TLOAD of red flags about this girl in your post. You say you don't know how to protect yourself from running into this kind of woman in the future... That's BULLSH!T.

Just look at the red flags and refrain from getting emotionally attached to a girl if she displays those red flags.

You are deluding yourself here, you are fooling yourself into believing that ANY woman could pull this stunt on you, like it is unforseeable and impossible to prevent it from happening. For some reason, you WANT things to be like this, you WANT to believe things work this way, while that is certainly not the case.

Why would you want to believe that? Well, probably coz it makes things easier for you. If things are out of your control, like it's just a matter of luck, then there is no need for you to make big efforts. After all, no matter how hard you would try to prevent yourself from being disappointed by relationships, it's all dependent on luck and chance anyway, right? So that means you can sit back and give up on fighting, just let the cards fall as they will.

In that regard it is quite tempting to believe things are out of your control, it takes a big burden of your shoulders. And I think you realize this deep down, which makes you inclined to delude yourself, thinking it's impossible to protect yourself from running into this kind of woman in the future. Deep down, you'd WISH that were true, so you don't have to take any responsibility for your hapiness or unhappiness, just attribute all of it to some outer force, beyond your control. The wish is father to the thought...

Time to man up and take responsibility. You definitely can protect yourself from running into this kind of woman in the future, you can protect yourself from getting disappointed in relationships. Unfortunately, it will require lots of hard work and effort...lots of blood, sweat and tears. So are you willing to put those in? If not, than you'd better go on and keep deluding yourself that it's all out of your control...
I just feel stupid. My naivety got me in this situation. Not my intention to b#tch and whine without a purpose. The whole point of seeking out communities like sosuave is to learn so as to not repeat the mistakes of the past.
 

Zunder

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Findog's problem with this girl: You were a Total Beta mate.
I know, been there - others will get all wordy and thats good - but I just shook my head when I read your post.
Good post but and thankyou for sharing it.
 

Findog

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Zunder said:
Findog's problem with this girl: You were a Total Beta mate.
I know, been there - others will get all wordy and thats good - but I just shook my head when I read your post.
Good post but and thankyou for sharing it.
I don't really see my behavior as beta with her but others are free to disagree. I see beta as being worshipful, putting them on a pedestal, being a doormat, constantly seeking reassurance, etc. Day to day my behavior really was not like that. Now internally I made the mistake of putting all my happiness eggs in one basket and I'll never do that again, so I agree with window.
 

Zunder

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I have a card from her from Valentine’s Day - so I assume you gave her a Valentines card too? Beta.

Six weeks before she dumped me she was emailing me suggestions for wedding venues and addressing me as her fiance. - I question getting engaged to a girl after only a year -Beta
- She's emailing you wedding sh!t, - Beta, not for the fact she emailed you but you accepted her emails about wedding shyte.

Two weeks before she dumped me we went to a jewelry convention to look at bands so I could get a better idea of what to get her. - What, you let her tell you what you should get? You were her little bytch. Beta.

Five days before she dumped me she made a comment in an email about what kind of engagement ring she wanted. -Another email. Fuksake - texting is bad enough but whats with her and all the emails. You shouldve put your foot down and said stop emailing me! Beta.
Whatsmore she is again telling you what to do - Beta.

Sitting out by the pool today after work and I kept thinking to myself 'You know, I really love that boy.'"-notice how she referred to you as "boy" Beta.

Last fall 2010 we were supposed to go to four weddings, all for her friends/family. -What? Four fuking weddings? how gay. One would be an indulgence, but four! Beta. Should have told her you gotta play touch footie with your mates.


When I got there, I told her I had secured a job interview for Sunday for a second job to pay for the ring.-good little Beta boy secures a job just to pay for her ring! Beta again.

But that I thought what we had together was worth trying to save and that I wanted to try couples counseling. -Counselling?! For fuksake, absolute total Beta there mate.

And if she didn’t want to do that, then we couldn’t be friends or remain in touch. -Aww LJBF. Beta

Her response to that final letter was to maintain 3 months of radio silence -Your Beta-ness became too much for her.

- Mate you may think I am being very harsh - but I am giving it to you straight. Take it or leave it.
 

Findog

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Zunder said:
I have a card from her from Valentine’s Day - so I assume you gave her a Valentines card too? Beta.

Six weeks before she dumped me she was emailing me suggestions for wedding venues and addressing me as her fiance. - I question getting engaged to a girl after only a year -Beta
- She's emailing you wedding sh!t, - Beta, not for the fact she emailed you but you accepted her emails about wedding shyte.

Two weeks before she dumped me we went to a jewelry convention to look at bands so I could get a better idea of what to get her. - What, you let her tell you what you should get? You were her little bytch. Beta.

Five days before she dumped me she made a comment in an email about what kind of engagement ring she wanted. -Another email. Fuksake - texting is bad enough but whats with her and all the emails. You shouldve put your foot down and said stop emailing me! Beta.
Whatsmore she is again telling you what to do - Beta.

Sitting out by the pool today after work and I kept thinking to myself 'You know, I really love that boy.'"-notice how she referred to you as "boy" Beta.

Last fall 2010 we were supposed to go to four weddings, all for her friends/family. -What? Four fuking weddings? how gay. One would be an indulgence, but four! Beta. Should have told her you gotta play touch footie with your mates.


When I got there, I told her I had secured a job interview for Sunday for a second job to pay for the ring.-good little Beta boy secures a job just to pay for her ring! Beta again.

But that I thought what we had together was worth trying to save and that I wanted to try couples counseling. -Counselling?! For fuksake, absolute total Beta there mate.

And if she didn’t want to do that, then we couldn’t be friends or remain in touch. -Aww LJBF. Beta

Her response to that final letter was to maintain 3 months of radio silence -Your Beta-ness became too much for her.

- Mate you may think I am being very harsh - but I am giving it to you straight. Take it or leave it.
I will leave much of it.
 

Atom Smasher

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First, thanks for the paragraphs. It's nice to see someone who doesn't demand that I work hard to read his story. Most new guys here with a long story make one huge block of text, and I don't read those.

"I will always care about you, and thank you for letting me be a part of your life". That sums up the beta mentality that you are currently unplugging from. She said "Awwww" because to her you had become a lttle puppy dog. Sick.

The guys are right that the warning signs were abundant. Far more important than her actual history was her statement that she always ended relationships at a year.

Her aggressiveness in wedding proceedings was probably a compensating mechanism for the breakup that she intuited would inevitably happen. She herself knew that her inner mechanism would deploy, or more accurately she sensed it looming on the horizon. Hence her over-compensation with all that wedding stuff. She was trying to rationalize her way out of the bomb that she sensed was coming from within herself. She knew that it was about to happen.

Your grandparents lived in an earlier time when women were relatively sane. In the past 40 years we have witnessed women become brainwashed and rendered insane (unable to think rationally) to an alarming degree, close to 100%. The media latched onto what made them feel good, it fed them what they wanted to hear, and now they are living in illusion, largely divorced from reality and largely unable to think. They only feel.

That's why sites like this exist today. Welcome to life outside the matrix. There's no going back, you know. The only thing you can do now that you've had a dose of reality is to learn game the best you can and continue to obliterate the illusions you lived under all your life.

It's not pretty here in Wonderland. But it's real. I have come to believe that women are not even capable of loving a man the way a man can love a woman. She can only love the way he makes her feel. I wish I was wrong, but I don't think I am.

Still, I don't give up hope that I'll find a woman who acts with a reasonable amount of integrity. I'm no longer looking for the "equal" I was looking for all my life. I always looked for a woman who had the same character traits as I, never realizing that they aren't capable. We have to accept them for what they are, and come to terms with their inability to live by princple, as we men strive to do. Living by principle is coveted by us, but abhorent to women, as it impies taking responsibility for one's actions, something a woman can never do. They ALWAYS need to see an "out". You found that out and now you are unplugged. You said that you suppose unplugging is necessary. You're already unplugged. You can't go back. You can't choose to for your eyes are opening.
 

Atom Smasher

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p.s. - Zunder did a good job of pointing out the beta-ness. He's spot-on across the board. Most of us have been there, and there is a brief time when we are appalled to see just how beta we really were.

But there is lots of hope, because from now on you're going to start to garner respect in your relationships. It's just that YOU are going to have to set and maintain the entire frame. It's your show, or no show now.
 

Findog

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Atom Smasher said:
"I will always care about you, and thank you for letting me be a part of your life". That sums up the beta mentality that you are currently unplugging from. She said "Awwww" because to her you had become a lttle puppy dog. Sick.
It was a throwaway line. I knew this encounter would be awkward for both of us. I knew this would be her last memory of me and I just wanted to take the high road and have her remember me as a good guy, not a nice guy. To me, beta would have been trying to bring up the breakup, tell her I loved her, use the exchange of belongings as an excuse to plead my case, etc. Beta would be whining and complaining about the breakup. I was told beforehand "Don't lose your sh#t in front of her, no matter how much it hurts. Be classy." That's all I was trying to do. I was also told that if you display any anger about how crappy she handled the breakup, it would just help her justify her decision. I figured if I take the high road and don't beg to get back together with her, don't get spiteful with her for ending things, if I basically respect her ability to exercise free will even if I don't like it or agree with it, that is being a man.

Look, I know how these things go a lot of the time. A guy gets blindsided and then he calls and texts 20-30 times a day to plead his case. I didn't do any of that. The letter wasn't "please take me back, I'll do anything," it was more along the lines of "Look, we had something special, I don't think it's worth throwing away, but if you don't want to work on this, then we can't stay in touch." I just honestly do not see that as beta. My boss is in his fifties, on his second marriage, and very early on after the breakup, he warned me "I have been in your shoes. Do not beg and plead to get back together with her. It will not work and she will lose respect for you."

I see some of what Zunder is saying and I appreciate his point of view, but a simple exchange of valentine's cards is not beta in my opinion. If i was lavishing gifts upon her every single day, getting her flowers every single week, etc, THAT is beta. I know the importance of leading in a relationship, that women respect a man with backbone who doesn't let her get her way all the time. Going to weddings and being a date is something you do in a relationship. It's not an unreasonable request and in my opinion that doesn't make you beta. Now here is something that I did put my foot down and refuse to do: her mom was friends with a lady who had a son that was our age and was engaged. She asked me if I wanted to go to their wedding shower and I made it clear that I was not going to do that.

As for the engagement ring and the marriage business, I'm in my early thirties. I'm at an age where I would like to settle down and start a family. Because she was professionally stable, because she was loving and kind within the confines of the relationship, because she appeared to be a person of good character and morals, I naturally began to see her as wife material after we had been together for a while. My best friend formally proposed to his wife after nine months of dating, and they've been happily married for 10 years, so it didn't seem like too much, too soon. It wasn't a 50 yard dash to the altar. My timetable for formally proposing was a little over a year after the beginning of the relationship, and whenever we discussed marriage, we both were like "Well, I assume two or three years from now we'll be married." As for the ring, it is customary for a man to demonstrate how serious he is by formally proposing with a ring.

I feel like I'm an expert on beta because I used to be one hardcore. I didn't have my first relationship until well into my twenties. I can think back to situations five, six, seven years ago where I completely failed to get laid or even come close to having a girlfriend because I was such an ultra "nice guy." I honestly don't see my relationship dynamic with her as like my failed interactions from 5-10 years ago. I can concede that from time to time I have those moments of legacy beta but they are not nearly as consistent or as strong as what they were in early adulthood. I honestly believe that we would never have become a couple to begin with if I was the same kind of beta guy I was when younger. They say you have to judge a woman by her actions and forget her words. Well up until the day she left her actions and her words appeared to be in perfect alignment. I can certainly concede that I am not a master alpha like Arnold Schwarzenegger or anything like that, but I honestly do not believe that this relationship failed because I was some pathetic doormat beta. I think I am somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, and I think that I should have paid more attention to the fact that she has never sustained a LTR before I started banking on one with her.
 

countermart

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Mate, I see you were quoting some of my stuff from an earlier post. Listen don’t let the guys beat you up too much over being beta or alpha is not the be all and end all to relationship success. As I pointed out plenty of alpha guys get dumped, divorced etc.

There were a lot of red flags with this girl, the past is likely to repeat. There is a good saying that goes something like, “When someone tells you who they are listen to them.”

She did not dump you because you were not alpha enough, she dumped you because of who she was. My view is if you are sleeping with the babe you can’t be too alpha-less.

In future remember you are dealing with an emotional and often irrational creature. What a woman tells you is exactly how she feels at that moment, but it is potentially absolutely irrelevant sometimes seconds later. Just understand what you are dealing with.

Now I am going to tell you something to repeat again and again, “Breaking up with that girl was the best thing that ever happened to me.” You know why, because it is true, you were not married, you did not have kids,...you are free and she had more red flags than a May day march.

You assume she made a rational decision and that is hurting your logic and ego. Forget about it, a girl breaking up with you unless you are a drunkard or something is completely irrelevant. It often has everything to do with her and nothing to do with you.

She may look back in 10 years and believe her actions were the stupidest thing she ever did. I know a lot of girls like this. She failed the test, end of story.
 

Zunder

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countermart said:
Mate, I see you were quoting some of my stuff from an earlier post. Listen don’t let the guys beat you up too much over being beta or alpha is not the be all and end all to relationship success. As I pointed out plenty of alpha guys get dumped, divorced etc.

There were a lot of red flags with this girl, the past is likely to repeat. There is a good saying that goes something like, “When someone tells you who they are listen to them.”

She did not dump you because you were not alpha enough, she dumped you because of who she was. My view is if you are sleeping with the babe you can’t be too alpha-less.

In future remember you are dealing with an emotional and often irrational creature. What a woman tells you is exactly how she feels at that moment, but it is potentially absolutely irrelevant sometimes seconds later. Just understand what you are dealing with.

Now I am going to tell you something to repeat again and again, “Breaking up with that girl was the best thing that ever happened to me.” You know why, because it is true, you were not married, you did not have kids,...you are free and she had more red flags than a May day march.

You assume she made a rational decision and that is hurting your logic and ego. Forget about it, a girl breaking up with you unless you are a drunkard or something is completely irrelevant. It often has everything to do with her and nothing to do with you.

She may look back in 10 years and believe her actions were the stupidest thing she ever did. I know a lot of girls like this. She failed the test, end of story.
So he behaves lime a beta schlub and you excuse it because, well sh!t - its all her fault anyway.

Thats a cop out mate.

She sounds just like any other attention hore girl (i.e 99.9%of them), dreaming of her big day in white - finding a beta herb to help fulfill that fantasy - but pulling out and dumping him at the 11th hour because what she craves is some alpha coc that he couldn't provide.

If your going to excuse beta behaviour like this and blame it on the girl all the time then you are going to go nowhere.
 

Findog

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Zunder said:
So he behaves lime a beta schlub and you excuse it because, well sh!t - its all her fault anyway.

Thats a cop out mate.

She sounds just like any other attention hore girl (i.e 99.9%of them), dreaming of her big day in white - finding a beta herb to help fulfill that fantasy - but pulling out and dumping him at the 11th hour because what she craves is some alpha coc that he couldn't provide.

If your going to excuse beta behaviour like this and blame it on the girl all the time then you are going to go nowhere.
Your point of view is that exchanging a single valentine's card is a beta move and a huge error...or her unprompted saying she loves me makes me a beta. You seem to adhere to the Roissy ethos that jerk game is a one size fits all correct approach to dealing with women and I don't agree with that.
 

Zunder

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Findog said:
Your point of view is that exchanging a single valentine's card is a beta move and a huge error...or her unprompted saying she loves me makes me a beta. You seem to adhere to the Roissy ethos that jerk game is a one size fits all correct approach to dealing with women and I don't agree with that.
Sorry mate but are you short of braincells or what?

Not just a single valentines card no - but more like your WHOLE relationship based on what YOU wrote in your opening post.

Keep in denial fella - and you will writing the exact same post about a different chick in a couple years.

By the way - post your age on your profile if you are going to post in the MM section.
 

Findog

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Zunder said:
Sorry mate but are you short of braincells or what?
Can you have a conversation with somebody without insulting them? I'm not insulting you.

You're basically saying that it's either be an alpha jerk or a docile beta wuss, that men fall into those two basic categories and there's no in between, and that if a man gets dumped, it's always his fault for not being Alpha enough. I don't think it's that simple.
 

Zunder

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Findog said:
Can you have a conversation with somebody without insulting them? I'm not insulting you.

You're basically saying that it's either be an alpha jerk or a docile beta wuss, that men fall into those two basic categories and there's no in between, and that if a man gets dumped, it's always his fault for not being Alpha enough. I don't think it's that simple.
I am starting to think you might be a troll.

Assuming your not - "braincells" is on the light side (very light) of what you might get called by other members if you carry on like this.

Listen mate - I got better things to do than give advice to someone BADLY in need of it who then doesnt want to hear the truth.

What the fuk are you going on about Roissy and jerk game and all that? Did I ever mention that?

As I said - take my freely given advice or leave it and go with the countermart crap where you put all the blame on the chick.
 

Findog

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Zunder said:
I am starting to think you might be a troll.

Assuming your not - "braincells" is on the light side (very light) of what you might get called by other members if you carry on like this.

Listen mate - I got better things to do than give advice to someone BADLY in need of it who then doesnt want to hear the truth.

What the fuk are you going on about Roissy and jerk game and all that? Did I ever mention that?

As I said - take my freely given advice or leave it and go with the countermart crap where you put all the blame on the chick.
I already said I would for the most part leave it. You're the one getting huffy and resorting to insults. Take care.
 

5string

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I won't say alpha or beta as that has been addressed. What I will say is that I see nothing wrong for a man to want a great marriage that will last for 68 years. I suppose it's all in how you find, attract and keep a quality woman.

Sidenote: I think Findog got lucky. My cluster B radar was picking up some signals.
 

Zunder

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Findog said:
I already said I would for the most part leave it. You're the one getting huffy and resorting to insults. Take care.
Good for you son - your AFCness will be alive and well.:rockon:
 
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