Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Tillman Executed by U.S Soldiers

Status
Not open for further replies.

bbestar

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
814
Reaction score
4
Location
Monte Carlo, Monaco
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3958728.html

AP: New Details on Tillman's Death
By MARTHA MENDOZA 07.26.07, 7:28 PM ET

SAN FRANCISCO -

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

_ In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

_ Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

_ The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

_ No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

Associated Press reporters Scott Lindlaw in Las Vegas and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this story.

Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed
 

A-Unit

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
1,518
Reaction score
44
Re:

Unfortunately, This report doesn't surprise me.

War is a racket. Nobody on domestic soil who has not fought could comprehend battle. When begin to imagine, which is the closest I can come, what they go through, I can see troops and morale breaking. I can see pressure. Awful climate and environment. Weapons being shouldered by brave and probably crazy soldiers. We're talking dying. And since we only get what we're fed by the big 4 (fox, nbc, cbs, abc), and they're fed what they're fed from the superiors who are they cross-checed by the GOV, we don't know the stories of soldiers. What we do see and hear are...

- Young boys coming back home badly burned by IED's. (Remember that post about the guy who married his hs sweetheart who looked nothing like his formerself. My local paper had about 4-8 more recently).

- Many dead soldiers, the numbers often skewed b/c they don't necessarily factor in those who die on the way home, from complications, or on the way to the Hospital.

- Insurgents that pop up everyday pushing back success (whatever that is actually considered).

Every time I get the 'rush' to join and become an Officer, I realize it isn't TV and ask myself "Could I die for any of that?" No. I don't feel there's honesty. Some how it's pitched that what we are doing OVER THERE is synonymous with LIFE HERE. With our "FREEDOMS." But our only link, and maybe this is a stretch and dooming a lock on this, was WMD's and 9/11, which has enough locked threads. Sorry. If I'm risking my life and limb, I have to be privy to the most secret intel. I just don't see THIS leading to THAT, and THAT being a great idea, or remote possibly worth pursuing. God bless the soliders who did choose to go. I know some who have returned, some with heroic stories to tell.

I can picture the soldiers breaking, and although Tillman was a hero, and he forewent a phat NFL contract to be a soldier, war is real. It isn't the images. And just b/c he was the NFL star and his brother stayed and played, doesn't mean things were rosey. It's sad this situation go to this point. Hopefully the truth is finally nailed down with one consistent story, otherwise you're just damaging the American peoples' confidence in the military and GOV, and hurting the family's memory of their son.


A_Unit
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
870
Reaction score
2
Location
***** palace
Deus ex Pianoforte said:
Uh, Tillman wasn't killed in the U.S.

What was the point of posting this article, OP? What exactly were you trying to accomplish? I mean, I already have a pretty good idea, but I want to hear you say it.
Thank you moron, I was pointing out how this kind of BS happens only in the US. Soldier getting shot by accident is understandable, however when the armed forces uses this as a propaganda tool to recruit more "patriots" that's just wrong... they actually knew what happened and lied to the family of Tillman.
 

Teflon_Mcgee

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
925
Reaction score
27
PeterNorthisawesome said:
Thank you moron, I was pointing out how this kind of BS happens only in the US. Soldier getting shot by accident is understandable, however when the armed forces uses this as a propaganda tool to recruit more "patriots" that's just wrong... they actually knew what happened and lied to the family of Tillman.

Nobody at this point knows if it was murder.
Given my experiences, I highly doubt it. Stuff like that only happens in movies.
In a tight unit like that even the guys you don't like are family.

Friendly fire happens. In every war. It was handled wrong but I don't see why it's such a big deal. Is it so bad his family thought he was killed doing what he felt was right (felt strong enough to die for) as a hero in combat?

Weather it was freindly fire or hostile fire it won't change what happened and it's ridiculous to try to find blame with friendly forces.

If it was murder then justice does need to be brought. But to cover up a murder on that scale just isn't reasonable. Not to mention murder is just so unlikely to occur within a combat unit.
 

ValleyDJing

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
1,531
Reaction score
14
Location
California
PeterNorthisawesome said:
I was pointing out how this kind of BS happens only in the US. .
Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard. How do you figure something like that? William Wallace was betrayed by Robert the Bruce, his own countrymen...that was in Scotland, which last time I checked, wasn't part of the United States. You're bulls.hit is getting annoying. *Added to Ignore List*
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
870
Reaction score
2
Location
***** palace
You both are stupid f'cking morons. I was saying even if it was friendly fire the fact that the army lied about it to his family is sick. If it was a mistake, then the army should have said Tillman died by friendly fire, instead they said that he was killed by the enemy and used that as a tool to recruit more people.

ValleyDJ, it's so funny to me that you have to actually say "added to ignore list" hoping someone will give a sh't about what you're doing. Please noone cares. If you don't like what I'm saying just ignore me, no need to announce it.
 

Suicide

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
247
Reaction score
2
Location
Denver
That article blows. Executed is a really misleading word. They make it sound like they tied him up and shot him in the back.
 

ValleyDJing

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
1,531
Reaction score
14
Location
California
So I happened to see your post after I logged off.

Just for the record...I'm sure people don't care if I whether or not I put you on my ignore list. I just wanted to make sure that you wouldn't take my silence as conceding defeat. Thats all.
 

theunflushables

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
20
Someone said that it could only happen in movies...but many would say having a bumbling idiot in office could only be something from Hollywood and look at us now.

It may be sick to think of it this way but I also think it might not be that far off, but, I could see an order coming down to take him out. Think of it, someone who actually gave up a good life and fame, to fight for something he believed in. Why not make him a martyr to help the war effort, and gain sympathy from the people at home?
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
870
Reaction score
2
Location
***** palace
ValleyDJing said:
So I happened to see your post after I logged off.

Just for the record...I'm sure people don't care if I whether or not I put you on my ignore list. I just wanted to make sure that you wouldn't take my silence as conceding defeat. Thats all.
Good, you obviously didn't understand my point and now your adding me to your ignore list based on your stupid assumption. Go right ahead, good job repeating my point of no one caring about wtf you do.

So funny to me that most Americans can't even tell the differance between constructive criticsm and verbal insult. I was criticising the corruption in the US army and how people should care more. Instead we got idiots like Valley who assumed just because I mentioned "US sucks" that it's automatically bullsh't. Well keep contributing to facism! Dictators love people without brains.
 

dot

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
288
Reaction score
1
Killed because he was gonna speak out. Government probably thought he was too big of a star to allow him to speak out.
 

Teflon_Mcgee

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
925
Reaction score
27
theunflushables said:
Someone said that it could only happen in movies...but many would say having a bumbling idiot in office could only be something from Hollywood and look at us now.

It may be sick to think of it this way but I also think it might not be that far off, but, I could see an order coming down to take him out. Think of it, someone who actually gave up a good life and fame, to fight for something he believed in. Why not make him a martyr to help the war effort, and gain sympathy from the people at home?

There is no such things as "orders coming down" to take people out in the American military. Murder does happen but when it does it at the hands of a person who would kill as a soldier or civilian.

You don't take a piss in a tight unit without 100 guys knowing if you're hydrated or not. To think that higher command could somehow channel down an order to execute a soldier without anybody but a murder knowing is a ridiculous idea.

Think about it. What would 99.9999% of people do if they were asked to kill an innocent man? Well guess what? The military is made up of people exactly like you and me. It's not Hollywood were it's a bunch of depraved sickos looking for blood. And every soldier, sailor, airmen, and Marine has a the duty to refuse any unlawful order.
 

theunflushables

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
20
Yeah, that's why all those solider refused to torture people at Abu Ghraib. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying the soliders are demented or sick, I know they are doing their job and following orders. But if you put enough pressure on someone they will do anything.

Secondly, its totally plausible. I mean we had a white house aid leak the identity of a CIA agent because her husband criticized the war. This amounts to nothing more than treason and should be punishable by death. Instead he got pardoned from his 30 year sentence by the President.
 

bigjohnson

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
2,442
Reaction score
37
Wearing underwear on your head while being mocked by female soldiers is nt torture. In fact some Japanese businessmen pay big bucks for that sort of thing. Back on topic ...

I can easily see how an assault rifle set for multi-shot bursts could easily put the entire burst in a very close area - that's what it's supposed to do, actually. Sounds like someone thought they were shooting an enemy in the face and made a mistake.
 

theunflushables

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,106
Reaction score
20
bigjohnson said:
Wearing underwear on your head while being mocked by female soldiers is nt torture. In fact some Japanese businessmen pay big bucks for that sort of thing. Back on topic ...QUOTE]

:crackup: Well now that you put it that way...damn my whole perception on life is now fvcked up.
 

Gangster Of Love

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
2,578
Reaction score
66
Age
50
Location
Los Angeles
Suicide said:
That article blows. Executed is a really misleading word. They make it sound like they tied him up and shot him in the back.
Sorry professor, there is no way to put a positive spin on a meaningless war that causes unnecesary deaths, every day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top