Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

There will come a time

Kailex

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ThunderMaverick said:
Someone close to me was on the same path. It got to a point where I gave up and just cut my loses. I ended up not caring if this person lived or died. They got better, even making a complete recovery. I gave up but they bounced back, and I felt that if they had support from me things could have gone smoother. I thought I knew everything.
They probably made a complete recovery in SPITE of you.
Don't be so naive to think that if you had been around, it would have gone smoother.

Sometimes White Knights are just ENABLERS.
And that's what you need to realize.

You are ENABLING her.

In your mind, you are "supporting" her... "saving" her.

This person now is willing to change and is making efforts to change. When there's an effort being put forth I'm not going to cut and run. Everyone has a vice or something that holds them back. If they're willing to fight I'm going to support that fight. The rub however, is if she's not strong enough to change. If she slips at my emotional expense I'm not going to be a chump and stay. This is why I'm saying I HOPE she's strong (and smart) enough to realize what she has.
You already are a chump because you already are staying.

But then again, why am I wasting my words here on you, we already know you WANT to fail on the off chance that you might be able to come back and say: See, I did it... I helped her.

Sorry, but she needs to help herself... because if she doesn't, she'll drag you down with you.

And that's the problem with being the White Knight, you will ALWAYS believe that you can save someone, no matter how hard you fall in the process.
 

frivolousz21

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ThunderMaverick said:
Slick, it's not so much that I keep coming back to ask for advice. It's me walking a path that I choose and chronicling for beginning posters and veterans as well. It can be used for other people to learn from. For me personally, I can't shy away from something because it hasn't worked for other people. I have to experience it myself.

Someone close to me was on the same path. It got to a point where I gave up and just cut my loses. I ended up not caring if this person lived or died. They got better, even making a complete recovery. I gave up but they bounced back, and I felt that if they had support from me things could have gone smoother. I thought I knew everything.

This person now is willing to change and is making efforts to change. When there's an effort being put forth I'm not going to cut and run. Everyone has a vice or something that holds them back. If they're willing to fight I'm going to support that fight. The rub however, is if she's not strong enough to change. If she slips at my emotional expense I'm not going to be a chump and stay. This is why I'm saying I HOPE she's strong (and smart) enough to realize what she has.
I was addicted to Hydrocodone for two years..I also took oxycodone, fetynal, Morphine, Tramadol, and Darvacet.

mostly Hydro. I quit when I quit, my family, lover, son, no one could help me, no one, I have never seen an addict actually quit becuase of someone else, exp a narcotics addict.

you need to go to an Narconon or alanon meeting.
 

bmp2cpm

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SharinganUser said:
I hope that you are joking.
No, I'm not joking. I've been routing for the Cubs to win a world series my whole life and still I am routing for them.

I've also decided to start routing for ThunderMaverick to rescue his woman.

Honestly, I don't know which event is more likely to occur, but that doesn't stop me from routing for ThunderMaverick.

Go ThunderMaverick!

Everyone here is pointing out the harsh reality to ThunderMaverick. But, no wants reality. We want adventure, excitement, an impossible dream that just might happen, a lottery ticket for a chance at the big prize. We all want hope Heck, even Star Wars had "Hope" in one of it's titles.

Most of us need some kind of lottery ticket to keep us going in life.

ThunderMaverick's lottery ticket is the rescue of his woman.

I believe in you ThunderMaverick! I believe in your hope!

I think your rescue attempt will go better than my rescue attempt when I was in my late 20s. Boy, that was a complete disaster that scarred me for life.

But I bet ThunderMaverick will have better luck than I.

Go ThunderMaverick!
 

Bluntmaster

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Yeah, about 6 months ago I wanted to do the same thing TM is doing. My girl was crazy BPD. He called me a damn fool. Eventually I listened and got rid of the lying, crazy b!tch and now I am with a gorgeous SANE foreign girl. It's nice dating a normal girl.

And now look at TM. Can't take his own advice!
 

boomerick

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TM

Bullsh!t............

In an empty life anything can and will be clasped onto and given disproportional signifigance in order to distract from the emptyness.....

You are not saving anyone....

You are not educating anyone...

You are distracting yourself from the fact that you have nothing else....

If you had any kind of life would you have the time, energy or patience to CHOOSE to waste your time on all this BS ???.....

If you had any kind of life would you bother to make so many lame EXCUSES ??...

If you had anything going would you humiliate yourself and turn your back on your own self respect ???.....

You are White Knighting and trying to justify it and is pretty sickening.....and very transparent....

Stop your Bullsh!t.......

This chick will fix herself ...OR...she wont....

Its not up to you !!!.....

Fix yourself....

Spend your time working on your own problems.....

Get yourself in a better situation.....

YOU are the one who really needs help......

That only you can give...

Get your sh!t together!

Over and Out.
 

Boilermaker

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Julius_Seizeher said:
Turn your own life around. Achieve financial success
same bullcrap again.

You are obsessed with money. Why don't you go to "self-made VIP" forums and satisfy your deeply rooted inferiority complex over there?

When you make a few thousand dollars, buy a bottle of "Chivas Regal" and start ranting about the futile lives of scientists and others, who don't breathe for money....
 

frivolousz21

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Boilermaker said:
same bullcrap again.

You are obsessed with money. Why don't you go to "self-made VIP" forums and satisfy your deeply rooted inferiority complex over there?

When you make a few thousand dollars, buy a bottle of "Chivas Regal" and start ranting about the futile lives of scientists and others, who don't breathe for money....
I have always been amazed by the money thing here. Such an empty delusion.


people will rip guys for making mistakes with women yet chase material values to fill that huge hole where emotion is supposed to go.


My uncle achieved financial success he forgone having children for it.

now he is 53, he and his wife of 28 years are both miserable and are looking every direction for the cure.

Both would give up everything they have boats, cars, big houses...to go back and have children. Millions upon Millions would be handed over without a 2nd thought for a 2nd chance to fulfill themselves with something real.
 

Young Juan

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Ok. A couple of universal rules I would like you to consider before or as you continue further. Before I get to that, I just want to say your will is commendable and if you stick with it long enough you will succeed....but possibly at the expense of your personal and financial security and wellbeing...is it worth it? Not figuratively, but literally: All of your expenses to resolve this problem (past, present, and future) compared to the return you expect to get in this investment. Will she pay you back in money? Will she be your wife? What's the possibility she turns around and leaves you for someone else for a clean start? Because you remind her of the problem? Because she has an irrational feeling of indebtedness she feels she can never properly pay you back? Which then leads her back to the problem as a comfort or way to get back at you? Take some time to truly consider the likelihood of these possibilities, not based on hope o, but based on past behaviors, actions, facts and occurrences.

You need to define the tipping point, the point of no return, and then "stick to your guns."

"A strong man cannot help a weaker unless that weaker is willing to be helped, and even then the weak man must become strong of himself; he must, by his own efforts, develop the strength which he admires in another. None but himself can alter his condition"
-As a Man Thinketh , James Allen

Nonetheless, if you do your due dilligence and the "math" adds up, keep this in mind:

"The persistent man never stops to consider whether he is succeeding or not. The only question with him is how to push ahead, to get a little farther along, a little nearer his goal."
-An Iron Will, Orison Swett Marden

Lastly, I donno if her issue is drugs, but I'm using myself as an example. I used to be a pot head. I was also a dealer. I stayed high on my own supply. I got popped and had to piss clean for 90 days or face a Felony and all the shiz that comes with an F. I quit cold turkey. I picked a day, smoked a blunt the night before, flushed/gave/sold the rest, went to sleep, woke up, and didn't smoke again. I didn't quit cold turkey randomly and by pure will power, although will power was an important factor. The true praise has to be given to a 3-step systematic plan.

1. Visualize 1 year, 3 years, 5 years, and 10 years down the destructive path. Visualize ALL OF THE DETAILS TO A T! The legal problems, the financial problems, the health problems, employment problems, social problems, etc. The more detailed the picture, story, and narrative the better. This picture should be demoralizing, repulsive, horrific, etc. but most importantly, ACCURATE! Then, think about this daily, meditate on it daily, multiple times a day, and remember: this is picture is your current future. Anytime you (she) want to do the habit, visualize this picture first. This should help create some detachment and distaste for the habit, some repulsion, and ultimately, indifference coupled with slight repulsion should be the feeling towards this habit in a while.

2. Pre-plan ALL downtime. If you don't have plans, sleep, clean, or exercise. Burn the extra energy and/or ensure you already have plans that prevent you from doing whatever the destructive behavior is.

3. Replace all activities related to the issue. ALSO, STRONGLY CONSIDER replacing friends and acquaintances related to the issue. If its drugs? Delete all dealer numbers and stop hanging with anyone who isn't clean. I replaced blunts with basketball, sleep, outdoor running, hiking, stationary bike, etc. I stopped hanging out with my smoker friends for a while. When I started hanging back with them, I made the plans, met up on my own turf, and led them on my path. When they wanted to stop n smoke, I kept goin and told them to meet me there. They didn't object, it was more for them!

I say all that, to say this: 9 out of ten times, how does this movie end? Would you be willing to bet a dollar to a dime your ending will be different?
 

Slickster

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ThunderMaverick said:
Slick, it's not so much that I keep coming back to ask for advice. It's me walking a path that I choose and chronicling for beginning posters and veterans as well. It can be used for other people to learn from. For me personally, I can't shy away from something because it hasn't worked for other people. I have to experience it myself.

Someone close to me was on the same path. It got to a point where I gave up and just cut my loses. I ended up not caring if this person lived or died. They got better, even making a complete recovery. I gave up but they bounced back, and I felt that if they had support from me things could have gone smoother. I thought I knew everything.

This person now is willing to change and is making efforts to change. When there's an effort being put forth I'm not going to cut and run. Everyone has a vice or something that holds them back. If they're willing to fight I'm going to support that fight. The rub however, is if she's not strong enough to change. If she slips at my emotional expense I'm not going to be a chump and stay. This is why I'm saying I HOPE she's strong (and smart) enough to realize what she has.
I appreciate your efforts to chronicle this situation.

Thunder you've been around here a long time and have probably given the same advice we are giving you now to other people in a similar situation.
I really hope you can separate the emotional from the rational in the decisions that you face in the future.

Just remember that you know better.
 

SharinganUser

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bmp2cpm said:
No, I'm not joking. I've been routing for the Cubs to win a world series my whole life and still I am routing for them.

I've also decided to start routing for ThunderMaverick to rescue his woman.

Honestly, I don't know which event is more likely to occur, but that doesn't stop me from routing for ThunderMaverick.

Go ThunderMaverick!

Everyone here is pointing out the harsh reality to ThunderMaverick. But, no wants reality. We want adventure, excitement, an impossible dream that just might happen, a lottery ticket for a chance at the big prize. We all want hope Heck, even Star Wars had "Hope" in one of it's titles.

Most of us need some kind of lottery ticket to keep us going in life.

ThunderMaverick's lottery ticket is the rescue of his woman.

I believe in you ThunderMaverick! I believe in your hope!

I think your rescue attempt will go better than my rescue attempt when I was in my late 20s. Boy, that was a complete disaster that scarred me for life.

But I bet ThunderMaverick will have better luck than I.

Go ThunderMaverick!
That's a pretty lousy ticket for TM to have. I don't know what your definition of excitement and adventure is but being tied down to some loser that needs to be saved doesn't sound like very much fun. It sounds like a complete waste of time and energy. If you want to help people, go and volunteer for some non-profit organization or something.
 

window

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In her book, "Why We Love" author Helen Fisher states that: millions of years of protecting and providing for women has bred into the male brain this tendency to choose women they feel they need to save. What separates man from animal is his ability to think and reason. Just because it may be natural for men to be chivalrous, it doesn't mean they can't place a limit on just how far they will go.
Should they open a door, pull out a chair, take a woman's hand when crossing the street or give her their jacket if she's cold? Absolutely. Should they try to save a woman whose life is a mess? They do so at their own peril.
Men try to save damsels in distress because it makes them feel powerful, in control and manly. Sometimes they are afraid of women and think they won't be rejected if they fix a woman's problems. They hide their inadequacies behind what looks like strength. They know they don't have their act together, so instead of working on themselves they'd rather work on someone else. Such relationships are doomed to fail.
 

Razor Sharp

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@Bluntmaster,

The point is obvious. You can lead a horse to water, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't kill himself of dehydration. Everything that is happening to Thunder has been foretold, practically to the letter, but he has ignored it and decided to "see for himself".

My grandfather always used to say "A smart man learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others". All too true. Thunder is a smart guy with a lot going for him, unfortunately he lacks the wisdom and sometimes plain common sense to take his game, and life where he wants it to be.

He'd rather don his spandex and swoop from the sky to save a lost soul, when the only thing that can save someone is their own volition. Haha, how ironic no? Thunder is trying to make his whorse drink the waters of enlightenment, yet refuses to drink it himself. Both of them are caught in the endless cycle of wanting to see how far the road to hell goes, pulling each other in a downward spiral. He thinks it's bad now, but until he cuts this succubus loose it's just going to get worse - his investment in her will increase, it will be even harder to walk away and down, down, down his life will plummet.

Thunder is right to post about this however. It's a perfect example of what NOT to do as a man and how NOT to handle a woman or your own emotions. It clearly illustrates the value of recognizing red flags, deciding what you will and will not tolerate in a relationship, and demonstrating enough modicum of self-respect to walk away from situations that just do not work for you.

Most of all it shows that the desire to save someone is a TERRIBLE foundation for a relationship. An LTR can only thrive in a situation where there is mutual respect, and some semblance of emotional/mental health coming from both sides, which clearly is not the case here.

People like to believe that love is complicated, but from personal experience I can tell you that a relationship can actually make your life simpler and more enjoyable, with the right person. The trick is being able to say NO to all the wrong ones.
 

ThunderMaverick

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boomerick said:
TM

Bullsh!t............

In an empty life anything can and will be clasped onto and given disproportional signifigance in order to distract from the emptyness.....

You are not saving anyone....

You are not educating anyone...

You are distracting yourself from the fact that you have nothing else....

If you had any kind of life would you have the time, energy or patience to CHOOSE to waste your time on all this BS ???.....

If you had any kind of life would you bother to make so many lame EXCUSES ??...

If you had anything going would you humiliate yourself and turn your back on your own self respect ???.....

You are White Knighting and trying to justify it and is pretty sickening.....and very transparent....

Stop your Bullsh!t.......

This chick will fix herself ...OR...she wont....

Its not up to you !!!.....

Fix yourself....

Spend your time working on your own problems.....

Get yourself in a better situation.....

YOU are the one who really needs help......

That only you can give...

Get your sh!t together!

Over and Out.

I guess I'm not busy enough in my life (I am quite busy) to not give a **** when someone I love is in a bind. I have to stress again (for impact) that Im not a "don juan" or a surrogate son to Tom Leykis. I'm not a leader and I don't expect to be a role model for anyone. It's just me sharing my experience and hoping someone learns from it.

I don't think I would be with her if all the other pieces didn't fit. She's got problems but a lot of what I'm compatible with is in her. Prior to this relationship, I was single for almost 4 years. I was fine with it. I'm not with her out of desperation or because I think I can't do any better. She knows I have other options, so she doesn't think she's God's gift to me. Any negative thing you describe about most of the women here she is not.

She doesn't ask me for anything and I give what I am able to to her when I can. I've never spent a dime to make her happy. (someday soon I'll have something nice for her)

I made a choice to be in a relationship with her and I can choose to leave if I'm not happy. So far I am happy, but I still worry. I worry because she has her own issues and I can't fix them. If it blows back on me I'm gone for good. I'll be sad because I would have wanted it to have worked out.

Out of love I have to believe she'll be okay. Otherwise there is no point.
 

Bluntmaster

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ThunderMaverick said:
I guess I'm not busy enough in my life (I am quite busy) to not give a **** when someone I love is in a bind. I have to stress again (for impact) that Im not a "don juan" or a surrogate son to Tom Leykis. I'm not a leader and I don't expect to be a role model for anyone. It's just me sharing my experience and hoping someone learns from it.

I don't think I would be with her if all the other pieces didn't fit. She's got problems but a lot of what I'm compatible with is in her. Prior to this relationship, I was single for almost 4 years. I was fine with it. I'm not with her out of desperation or because I think I can't do any better. She knows I have other options, so she doesn't think she's God's gift to me. Any negative thing you describe about most of the women here she is not.

She doesn't ask me for anything and I give what I am able to to her when I can. I've never spent a dime to make her happy. (someday soon I'll have something nice for her)

I made a choice to be in a relationship with her and I can choose to leave if I'm not happy. So far I am happy, but I still worry. I worry because she has her own issues and I can't fix them. If it blows back on me I'm gone for good. I'll be sad because I would have wanted it to have worked out.

Out of love I have to believe she'll be okay. Otherwise there is no point.
So go marry her, and I'm sure you will still be happily in love after 20 years and she will be true and faithful to you!

What are you waiting for?

But seriously dude, find a normal chic before you waste more time. I am the king of BPD's and you will never see me make a thread about my new girl. She is a normal good woman and the craziness isn't there and the porno sex isn't there YET but it will be and I don't need the craziness, because I can trust her.
 

ThunderMaverick

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Yup, she has issues, she'll even admit it. She's trying hard to work though it which is great to see.

I think a lot of guys here have this misinterpreted. I'm with her and helping her though emotional support. I'm not with her to fix her problems. I'm not wasting time, money, or other resources to get her through what she's going through. She knows it's her issues to deal with and she's the only one who can save herself. I'm cheering her on and doing what I'm able to to help.

I've been here long enough to know not to be someone's hero.

@Blunt, I thought you were leaving the forums? Or were you saying that to scare me into missing you? lol

In any case neither one of us believes in marriage. I don't have plans to marry ANYONE. I don't want to marry. In this day in age where the government and state are so involved in 2 people's lives who are "in love" it's a gamble and a waste of time if things go sour.

I wouldn't recommend marriage to anyone, even if they do plan on having kids.
 
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