The Worst Advice Ever

cazzie

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This is the worst **** I have ever read in my life.

http://www.backlash.com/content/gender/1998/11-nov98/jama11.html

"It can't really be regarded as being what all women want or expect, and indeed many women would probably find it patronizing. However, this article - written in 1998 - does seem to summarize what a lot of women expect from a man...A LOT! Jeez, it's the most patronizing, arrogant and above all demeaning article I've read on relationships, one that truly seems to imagine men as being merely wallets, there to financially support and flatter womenkind. " - Duncan
 

Visceral

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Read Nietzsche; he outlines the entire history of this kind of subversion, where the weak use law and morality to crush the spirit of the strong.
 
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spider_007

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Guys, remember, she is describing all thos things from a womans point of view. therefor; some of the things described should be done only from time to time, and by a "reall man" who already proved his domenance and status. Woman feel special when a rich a powerfull MAN, opens the door for her, NOT when a wussy does....

also, understand, woman do want us as a providers. They wanted that back in the stone age and they want it now in 2000, it's just a fact of life. The minute they don't want us as providers, is the minute they have comlite control over the relationships. That is the feminite propaganda you should be fighting against.
Men need to be succesfull, and have the ability to provide for the family. two of the bigest reasons why pople get divorced is money and sex (IN THAT ORDER). In another words, lot of people on her learn how to project that sexual desire on her and get laid, but fail to learn how to project the image of a succesfull, disciplined, self sustaining man.

I thought about 50% of the article could be taken word for word, and another 30-40 if you read in between the lines
 

Julian

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Alot of that stuff ive seen posted on here for guys to do.
 

snintel

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If you've already shown you're a confident, MAN... then most of those things are fine to do. If you're a needy loser guy bringing her soup when she's sick then she'll lose more respect for you...
 

Interpol

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The truth is, most of that article is realistic advice.

And hate to break it to you, but women suggesting that men pay for things is NOT feminist propaganda, it's the traditional male/female power structure...Go back to the 1950's and see how many women paid for anything...
 

HeartlessBtch

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That's a really lame article. I'm a woman and I woulnd't want my boyfriend to do everything that's on that sht...If I wanted that why not pay to have a maid. I guess I'll try to take in considerations it's titled "Dating For Geeks"...Shame
 

squirrels

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Wha?

Are we reading the same article? Because most of this actually seems like decent advice.
Great smelling cologne, fixing things in your tight t-shirt and jeans ..."Is there anything else I can do for you ma'am?" followed by a wicked grin ... Leading... Leading anywhere... on the dance floor, talking to the waiter... buying the tickets... Asking us out up front and direct...A sense of excitement and the unexpected when we see you...making love in the car listening to the music we grew up with.. A rogue in a drop-dead European suit and beautiful leather shoes... a great car, educated vocabulary and good manners ... The skill of listening well before you try to fix us ... Going out of your way to bring us soup when we're sick ... Balding or hairy, a guy who likes himself.

All of the above triggers have something in common - assertive behavior. Give us men who are strong. A man wants a beautiful woman and a woman wants a man who can provide for her financially and emotionally. It's not sexist or wrong for us to want what turns us on. It's just the way we are hard-wired
How is this bad advice??

And this could come straight from the DJ Bible:

The most important trait to acquire is the attitude that you have a right to walk the face of the earth. If you feel that you are somewhere lower than a slug in a latte, we should talk. Remember that even John Wayne wore lifts in his shoes. And walking tall is an acquired skill. If you practiced confident conversation as much as you practice TV or computing you'd get dates. Just DO it.
And this!

You think in time she will come around and leave Edwardo? You believe when she gets through her "busy work schedule" or comes back from France that she'll warm up to you and it's been six months? Well, if she isn't kissing you or letting you touch her by the third or fourth date, there's very little possibility that it will ever happen. Get a clue: You are acting like a doormat. I'll bet you've heard the "f" word once too often.

Friend is another word for "NO SEX."

This guy loves to hang around and buy her dinner, hoping she will finally come across. The more he lets her treat him like a friend, the less likely she will ever see him as a lover. Stop torturing yourself! Go out and find someone who will appreciate you.
This is actually a pretty accurate description of "what women really want in a man."

The author never says that EVERY woman deserves such treatment. There's another book on the OTHER side of this story titled, "what men REALLY want in a woman" and you should be constantly evaluating whether a woman is giving you what YOU want before you start doing these kinds of things for HER.

You guys out here who say that women should pay their half of everything...let me put it this way. If on a first date, who pays even becomes an ISSUE, then it's YOUR fault for taking her on a first date you can't afford.

When it says, "Pay for her babysitter, her iguana-sitter, etc", it doesn't mean just do it out of the goodness of your heart, but if you ask her to come away with you on some tropical vacation, the LEAST you should do is pay her way.

Which is why you NEVER take a woman on an expensive date until she's EARNED it. Pool, bowling, movies, etc...all cheap dates and still can be fun/romantic. You don't buy a girl you don't know drinks in the club because she hasn't EARNED it by showing value to YOU. (And no, p*ssy does not count as value). But if you're taking your fiancee out for a drink, you damn well better pay for it and be happy to. :p

Rule: You ask, you pay. is a pretty good rule of thumb. If you don't want to pay for it, or you think that she hasn't EARNED it yet, then DON'T ASK. Or establish up-front that you're "going Dutch". Women generally DON'T have good jobs or a lot of money. The ones that DO will probably offer to pay anyway.

So let's review:

-If you ask her out, and it isn't discussed, you should expect to pay.

-If you can't afford to pay for her, or don't feel that she's earned the right to be paid for yet, don't ask her...or ask her to something less expensive.

-If the two of you decide you want to do something, but you know in advance that you can't or don't want to pay her way yet, establish that up-front at the time of asking.

-If you pay for something and she's unappreciative, DROP THE B!TCH. :p

One compromise you may want to consider is just paying for the CORE expenses of the date and going "dutch" on everything else. For example, if you go to the movie theater, YOU buy the tickets, but if she wants snacks or popcorn, it's on her. Or if you go out to a bar/club, YOU pay cover, but she can buy her own damn shots. I'm going to the beach with this girl next weekend. She asked me "how much it was going to cost" her, I told her I would take care of the hotel, she should just pick up a couple of the meals and we'd be cool.

Last time we went away somewhere, we established in advance, since we had never really met (and since she hadn't established any value to me), that we'd be splitting on the hotel bill, and I stuck to that. But once we got down there, I paid for dinner. ;)

Allen said it best:

The most important thing to remember is what the PURPOSE of the date is. Quite simply, you want to have a good time; you want her to have a good time; and you want to get to know one another better. Who actually pays for the meal is somewhat irrelevant. Your paying for the meal is not your goal for the evening. Her paying for her half or getting a free meal is not her goal either. The goal is to have an enjoyable evening together and to find out how compatible the two of you are.

Adopting this simple attitude, when the check arrives you'll consider it fairly unimportant who actually does the paying. It won't really matter to you if you pay for the whole thing or she pays half or whatever. Heck, let her pay for everything if she wants. It really doesn't matter. Remember your goal.

(One reason it's not a big deal is because you haven't made the amateurish and sometimes fatal mistake of trying to "buy" her... by taking her to the most expensive restaurant in town. The more expensive the restaurant or date, the more stress and tension you induce into the situation. Nice and inexpensive is the rule (especially for the first few dates). If the check's more than $30 or $40 total, you screwed up. And ALWAYS have enough cash with you to cover everything.)

On the other hand, just because you feel that the check is no big deal doesn't necessarily mean that she will feel the same. Maybe she wants you to pay for everything. Maybe she wants to pay her half. Who pays may be important to her, or it may not be important to her. You don't know. That's why you're going to pay attention to certain clues throughout the evening in order to "read" the situation correctly
Try to find the balance. And if you don't have any money, you should be less worried about getting women and more worried about GETTING MONEY! :p
 

Luveno

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Originally posted by Interpol
The truth is, most of that article is realistic advice.

And hate to break it to you, but women suggesting that men pay for things is NOT feminist propaganda, it's the traditional male/female power structure...Go back to the 1950's and see how many women paid for anything...
This advice does not ring true in the current social climate because the traditional male/female power structure doesn't exist. Women have the ability to make more money than men now.

In my opinion, the equality practiced in today's world should extend to the dating game. A man should not offer to pay for anything unless the woman has shown that she is worth paying for, and only if they are in an LTR. That way, it becomes less of a gamble and more of an emotional investment: you feel good because you sacrificed some of your money to make your partner happy. You didn't do it just to get in their pants or impress them.

The more I read about economics, the more correlations I find between it and dating. A smart investor would never throw money at a stock that he hasn't fully researched and understood. Same for the smart Don Juan: he would never throw money at a girl he does not totally understand or respect yet.

My personal rule is to never pay for dates until in an LTR, and then only sparingly. That way, it becomes more of a good deed and less of the norm, which makes it worth more. I suggest you look up the economic term "utility"

However, on reading that article, I found many things that are very true when it comes to women - as selfish as they come! However, there are things there that are the opposite of what a true Don Juan should do. It is up to the Don Juan community to filter out the undesirable information from the useful.
 

Interpol

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Originally posted by Luveno
This advice does not ring true in the current social climate because the traditional male/female power structure doesn't exist. Women have the ability to make more money than men now.

In my opinion, the equality practiced in today's world should extend to the dating game. A man should not offer to pay for anything unless the woman has shown that she is worth paying for, and only if they are in an LTR. That way, it becomes less of a gamble and more of an emotional investment: you feel good because you sacrificed some of your money to make your partner happy. You didn't do it just to get in their pants or impress them.

The more I read about economics, the more correlations I find between it and dating. A smart investor would never throw money at a stock that he hasn't fully researched and understood. Same for the smart Don Juan: he would never throw money at a girl he does not totally understand or respect yet.

My personal rule is to never pay for dates until in an LTR, and then only sparingly. That way, it becomes more of a good deed and less of the norm, which makes it worth more. I suggest you look up the economic term "utility"
I personally agree with you on this issue - I'm just pointing out the idiocy of people deriding the original article as "feminist propoganda" when it is really quite the opposite. A true feminist would never allow a man to pay her way for anything.

Many people on this site simply fall into the habit of dismissing any female opinions they disagree with as "feminist". If that article were truly written by a feminist, it would NOT be telling guys to "always take the lead", it would NOT be telling guys to "always pay for her", and it would DEFINITELY NOT include that section about chivalry at the bottom.

I think some of you guys need to do some research on what feminism really means.
 

Luveno

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Originally posted by Interpol
I personally agree with you on this issue - I'm just pointing out the idiocy of people deriding the original article as "feminist propoganda" when it is really quite the opposite. A true feminist would never allow a man to pay her way for anything.

Many people on this site simply fall into the habit of dismissing any female opinions they disagree with as "feminist". If that article were truly written by a feminist, it would NOT be telling guys to "always take the lead", it would NOT be telling guys to "always pay for her", and it would DEFINITELY NOT include that section about chivalry at the bottom.

I think some of you guys need to do some research on what feminism really means.
You are correct on your assertion that true feminists would not want any man to pay their way for anything. Real feminists (very rare) want to be seen as equals. They will pay for dates as much as you do. It is not an empowerment trip - they just do not want to feel like sponges.

However, like I said, real feminists are very rare. In theory, true feminism is a great thing: gender justice. Who wouldn't want that? Why shouldn't a very smart girl be able to become a surgeon or CEO?

The feminists that most guys on this forum refer to are the female empowerment crew: AKA the "feminazis". These women, too numerous for our own good, will play the independent women role until it costs them something. Then they will gladly sucker a poor chump into being their meal ticket because they should be payed for. They're women, afterall. THey deserve to be treated like princesses.

In summary, the history of male/female relations went like this:

1. In the 1950s and before, men made the money and decided what to do with it. Women were completely dependent on men.

2. In the 60s-late 80s era, women fought to be given the same respects and opportunities as men. Although the reasoning is sound, the result was abhorrent policies like "affirmative action". The media was beginning to portray women as equals to men.

3. early to mid 90s: Women were beginning to be portrayed as superior in the media. Rather than a successful woman being a normal thing, the media hyped it up to be "girl power" and that we should be in complete awe of her because she's a woman. Still, many TV shows portrayed their male and female characters as equals(ie Seinfeld, Friends, ER, Law and Order, etc.)

4.mid 90s to now: the media has propagated the attitude that men should be dependent on women, yet men should still make the money and spend it on what the woman desires.
So, the men make the money yet the women are in control of it. Shows like Everybody loves Raymond, King of Queens, Desperate Housewives, Sex and the City etc perpetuate this belief.

The most effective way to curb this media poisoning is for men to become the prime consuming demographic. However, then we become slaves to CEOs rather than to HOs.

The real solution is for us to lose our self-established dependence on women for happiness, or to make prostitution legal. Read Pooks recent posts to discover what I mean.
 

squirrels

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Originally posted by Luveno

My personal rule is to never pay for dates until in an LTR, and then only sparingly. That way, it becomes more of a good deed and less of the norm, which makes it worth more. I suggest you look up the economic term "utility"
Ehh...look at it as more of a risk-reward structure. Buying expensive stuff or paying for expensive dates for a girl who hasn't shown any value is a bad investment, because the amount of money you're risking is high and the reward is questionable.

But paying for a movie ticket or something is different. The reward is still questionable, but it's not a lot of money, so risk is relatively low compared to reward potential. So why not?


However, on reading that article, I found many things that are very true when it comes to women - as selfish as they come! However, there are things there that are the opposite of what a true Don Juan should do. It is up to the Don Juan community to filter out the undesirable information from the useful.
Is it that women are TOO selfish? Or that men aren't selfish ENOUGH??

Men accuse women of being selfish when they spout sh!t like this...the truth the way I see it is that men are so suckered on the "great importance" of having a piece of azz that they aren't selfish ENOUGH when it comes to finding GOOD women. Having a girl or girls has become so important for social status that many men are willing to stick it out with inferior women and give them the women what THEY want without any concern for what the men THEMSELVES want.

I dont' mind giving a woman everything SHE wants in a man...as long as she's giving ME everything *I* want in a woman. Therein lies the imbalance. Because men are so desperate for affection/sex/companionship these days, women believe that THEY hold all the value and can make all the demands.

It's not that the women are selfish...it's just that they haven't compromised what they want in a man just to be accepted socially.

And that's what the MEN need to stop doing too. That's what makes a REAL man.

If all men were to be a little more demanding of what they want, women would stop acting like they had some kind of entitlement and start working as hard to please men as men work to please women.
 

Luveno

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Originally posted by squirrels
Ehh...look at it as more of a risk-reward structure. Buying expensive stuff or paying for expensive dates for a girl who hasn't shown any value is a bad investment, because the amount of money you're risking is high and the reward is questionable.

But paying for a movie ticket or something is different. The reward is still questionable, but it's not a lot of money, so risk is relatively low compared to reward potential. So why not?


$1 is too expensive for me. As Bill Gates on the Simpsons said: " I didn't become the richest man in the world by writing a lot of cheques."

Of course, what you say does hold merit but its a relative thing. I'm a student so all of my money gets sucked by the university.




Is it that women are TOO selfish? Or that men aren't selfish ENOUGH??

Men accuse women of being selfish when they spout sh!t like this...the truth the way I see it is that men are so suckered on the "great importance" of having a piece of azz that they aren't selfish ENOUGH when it comes to finding GOOD women. Having a girl or girls has become so important for social status that many men are willing to stick it out with inferior women and give them the women what THEY want without any concern for what the men THEMSELVES want.

I dont' mind giving a woman everything SHE wants in a man...as long as she's giving ME everything *I* want in a woman. Therein lies the imbalance. Because men are so desperate for affection/sex/companionship these days, women believe that THEY hold all the value and can make all the demands.

It's not that the women are selfish...it's just that they haven't compromised what they want in a man just to be accepted socially.

And that's what the MEN need to stop doing too. That's what makes a REAL man.

If all men were to be a little more demanding of what they want, women would stop acting like they had some kind of entitlement and start working as hard to please men as men work to please women.

These are very sobering words. Men should NOT SETTLE. They should take what they want and not have to compromise their desires.
 

Visceral

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Men do need to be more selfish, I agree - a lot more selfish, as well as a lot more willing to push for what they want.

However, good women are few and far between.

And when you combine this fact with sex drive and peer pressure, the average man doesn't have the luxury to be choosy about who he sleeps with.
 
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Luveno

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Originally posted by Visceral

And when you combine this fact with sex drive and peer pressure, the average man doesn't have the luxury to be choosy about who he sleeps with.
If you are talking about the sex drive and peerpressure of average men, they do have the luxury to be choosy. It just takes work!

Any man has the power to surpass the average. Most men are too lazy to take even the first step. This average man should learn about $$ and go to the gym, as well as work a job that he finds enjoyable. He should live for his desires alone, not to impress his equally average peers. He should not marry, but instead traverse the world sampling the many different flavors of the wine they call "woman". Life is too short to be "average".
 

frivolousz21

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the average man doesn't have the luxury to be choosy about who he sleeps with.
your right

this is why we are here to be DJ;s to be above average in everyway!

god bless us :woo:


He should not marry, but instead traverse the world sampling the many different flavors of the wine they call "woman". Life is too short to be "average".

I agree with you on not being average..

however I do want to marry..but I will not marry an average women..I will be marry a women comperable to me...and I am currently with an amazing women that alot of men desire.

the beauty of it..she thinks exactly the same of me :) and she is correct.

thank you sosuave.com:)
 

Visceral

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Originally posted by Luveno
Most men are too lazy to take even the first step.
I agree; the immediate and short-term pain blinds them to future and long-term pleasure.
 
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undesputable

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Originally posted by Visceral
Read Nietzsche; he outlines the entire history of this kind of subversion, where the weak use law and morality to crush the spirit of the strong.
what a smart guy...that was quite an astute observation.
 
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