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The Blacksmith and the Woodsman

Rollo Tomassi

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Once upon a time there was a woodsman who had an axe with a dull blade and rough, black head. After a hard day of chopping he looked at the axe and swore to himself he would make it the sharpest blade with a head polished to a mirror of silver. The woodsman then promptly went to the blacksmith in the village and explained to him his plan. The smith then said, "Surely this axe can be as bright and sharp as you wish, if only you'll turn the grindstone for me while I hone and polish it?" The woodsman agreed and for the next week he turned the stone for the smith.

Though it was harsh labor and the woodsman sweat enough to wet the stone while the smith ground the blade, he turned on. By the end of the 1st week the blade was a bit sharper and it's shine still dull. "See me next week and we'll have your beautiful axe glimmering." said the smith.

And so the woodsman turned the stone for another week while the smith ground the axe. By this time the woodsman had grown weary, his back in stiches and his muscles aching, yet still the axe was sharper and it's surface began to shine by the end of the second week. "I think I shall take my axe now" said the woodsman. The smith protested, "The blade is unfinished and it's head only a bright silver, not mirror perfect as you wished. Turn the stone but a bit longer and we will have your axe bye and bye." To which the woodsman replied "No, I am weary and besides, I think I prefer a silver axe to a polished one now."


My appologies for going the POOK route in this post, but I'd just read this story recently which was originally told by Benjamin Franklin. I began to think, how many men I know (myself included at one time) who've palyed, and yet still play, the role of the woodsman in this story. We become so fed up, weary, impatient or critical of our own failed attempts that we begin to prefer things that are inferior. In other words, we settle for less and convince ourselves that it's what we really want.

When we do this it seems to us like success. It was still hard work, it was still character building, but not what we'd originally planned. A psychological experiment (about memory actually) once put a series of C and D student into a tutorial program to raise their grades, only the program was intentioanlly designed not to help them in any way over the course of 12 weeks. By the end of the 12th week all had completed the once a week tutorials and as expected none had grades any better than when they started (some even lower), but when asked if the class had helped them every one replied "Yes, it helped a lot." The idea here is of course that we don't like to think of our past efforts as being fruitless or a waste of time. Our own psyches will prevent us from accepting work for nothing so we'll selectively forget the actual result against the percieved effort.

Now, to apply this to a DJ mentality, how does this affect us? The easy comparisson is the AFC who's too afraid of rejection in the 'outside' world withdraws into his own 'inside' world and prefers it. This is the guy who'll readily supplicate to his GF because "that's just how he is" or he "prefers strong willed women" while she psychologically and emotionally deconstructs him as a willing participant. The serial monogamist 'prefers' the safety of a relationship, any relationship, to having to confront this same rejection in the outside world. I can't begin to count the times I've heard men in their 40's and 50's tell me that they got into a career to appease a woman or how they'd changed their majors in college to better facilitate a relationship. Their explanations are invaribly, "I thought it's what I wanted at the time", but hindsight and the fallout from 10-15 years of 'prefering' one thing over another put them into the position of needing counseling.

Human beings have an amazing ability to normalize their own conditions. Anything can become normal. It's how we normalize a condition that separates the reality of a situation from our perception of it. Now think for a bit of how this dynamic applies to yourself? What have you convinced yourself of for the wrong reasons? Are you in a situation now that began from your having settled for less that what you wanted? Do you struggle with an AFC who's convinced himself that he prefers what he's become?
 

realsmoothie

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Now, to apply this to a DJ mentality, how does this affect us? The easy comparisson is the AFC who's too afraid of rejection in the 'outside' world withdraws into his own 'inside' world and prefers it.
Why would we prefer it? This inside world SUCKS. There must be some kind of way in which your brain rewards you for not acting and only thinking.

French psychologist and theorist Jacques Lacan came up with the concept of "jouissance", which is basically the French word for "coming" in a sexual sense. Jouissance is the psychological orgasm, occuring whenever we experience something typically non-sexual that appeals to our particular neuroses enough to make us FEEL on a sexual level.

OK, that's a hard thing to get your head around. Basically, we all have repressed desires that we can't act on (because either society doesn't like them or we are too neurotic) so we find new desires that we CAN act on. When we satiate those desires, by collecting Beanie Babies, cooking risotto, watching the Seahawks score a touchdown, capturing the flag in Quake, etc... we get the feeling of "jouissance".

In my own case, I've realized that just THINKING of taking action with women has supplanted actually doing it. I actually get a bit of a charge out of sitting there thinking of ways to hit on my customers, talk to girls on the street, ask out that friend of a friend... and it makes me feel better to do so.

But nothing gets done. It's mental masturbation.

That's why I've decided lately to avoid thinking about girls at all costs, except for a short period each day when I come on this board, make plans with girls, etc.. If a girl is actually around, then it's totally fine. I've been doing this for about a week now, and it's been stressful (you'd be amazed how much girls seep into your brain) but pretty effective so far.
 

Tazman

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It's a balancing act between getting a girl who you'd like to have sex with and one who isn't crazy or flighty. Men have to go through this whole song and dance to get some ass. Some (like myself) just don't see the benefit in putting forth all this effort for something that may or may not even satisfy you. Some guys live their lives around getting women, they're probably the ones who don't mind the chase. I get sick of it, I just want some ass once in a while, but that's just me I guess. I'm not a very outgoing person.
 

ElChoclo

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I deduce from this story that Benjamin Franklin really liked shiny axes.

Some men really have a need for a lot of wood though, and they can't afford to be putting their axe out of action for weeks on end while they polish its head.
 

GirlCrazy

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I use a maul to chop wood. It's not shiny, but it has a neon yellow fiberglass handle which is really cool.
 

Faca

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I like the story too, and this is what i got from it:

Know what you desire and want, and go for it. DO NOT SETTLE FOR LESS.

Sometimes we aren't totally honest with our selves, and this is when a really good friends comes handy. Ask him about your progress, or about a problem, to get someone's perspective on it. A mentor maybe a better!

Is it that we settle for less, because we don't think of ourselves that we deserve the best? or we might be afraid that the best will never come.. and take what we can at that time...

But then again do we really know what we want?..
 

Rollo Tomassi

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FACA, I understand the settling point of this, but my concern was our ability to normalize what we've settled for. Essentially we have a tendency to idealize that which we do settle and say "I prefer what I've settled for."

It kind of hits on the "Just Be Yourself" mentality. We'd like to think our personalities are static, but the preferences that constitute them are changeable and do so even without our conscious efforts.
 

Faca

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Rollo Tomassi said:
FACA, I understand the settling point of this, but my concern was our ability to normalize what we've settled for. Essentially we have a tendency to idealize that which we do settle and say "I prefer what I've settled for."

It kind of hits on the "Just Be Yourself" mentality. We'd like to think our personalities are static, but the preferences that constitute them are changeable and do so even without our conscious efforts.
A way to explain to yourself that you did make the right choice even if you didn't? I personally don't admit my mistakes, or wrong choices. But becoming more aware how our personalities are dynamic, has helped me a lot here. It much easier to admit when you were wrong, then to hold on the wrong idea the whole time.

You want to say that your personality changes unconsciously, and one week from now you can be all different? How is it then that some people will be the same 20 years from now?

If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? - Fight Club
I do understand your point, but my question is what makes the one person change unconsciously and the other one not? What's your view on changing the unconscious mind...

- Faca
 

Kid Quick

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Tazman said:
It's a balancing act between getting a girl who you'd like to have sex with and one who isn't crazy or flighty. Men have to go through this whole song and dance to get some ass. Some (like myself) just don't see the benefit in putting forth all this effort for something that may or may not even satisfy you. Some guys live their lives around getting women, they're probably the ones who don't mind the chase. I get sick of it, I just want some ass once in a while, but that's just me I guess. I'm not a very outgoing person.
You describe my situation pretty well. I don't expend much effort to get women, and get only occasional tail. I used to think something was wrong with my attitude but now that I understand myself better I like it that way. You refer to the cost/benefit ratio of the chase and I agree. If I meet someone worthwhile and she likes me, great, but if I have to pass a number of sh!t tests to prove I'm worthy of her or compete with 10 other men for the honor of her presence it's over.
 

Sinistar

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Good topic w/r to this forum...perhaps a good lead-in for a future author :)

Settling. When our own minds & beliefs defeat us.

Example: A couple buys a home 9yrs ago for $300K. Career changes prompt a move, equity was good in their area and through careful research 'believe' their home is now worth $500K. They list it. 6wks go by and the first offer come in at $450K. They begin to 'believe' (given research, time on market and external advice) that the first offer may very well be their best so they counter and the buyer counters again. The 'settle' at $465K. There was a cost. Perhaps that $35K was little Billy's college fund or a 4th garage stall or another 1/4acre.

My observation here. It is much like a failing relationship. When the pain of staying finally exceeds that of leaving, change happens. Much then it is the same that once the pain in holding onto one belief exceeds that of the switching to another belief, settling takes place. And at that point the human ego fully realizes this and must attempt to rationalize/justify (ie normalize) this change in beliefs or risk greater mental grief/stress. For example "We thought it was best to accept the 1st offer since we wanted more time to find our next home", etc, etc, etc.

Another example. A mega-AFC believes that the only relationship worthy women are HB9's or above. So he goes countless years alone with little or no intimate experiences because his belief of HB9 or nothing is incongruent with the reality of experience, attraction, confidence, etc. Then at some point the pain of that belief exceeds the perceived stress of lowering his standards. He nails a HB6. He now has experience but he is not happy. He settled. Then over time he begins to accept what he thinks is 'fate', that he is limited to the pool of HB6's. He even make reason's not to seek out the HB9's.

The point here, could it be an unhealthy belief in the first place that rippens the situation for a case of 'settling'. Much like the woodsman and his belief driving the desire for a: "sharpest blade with a head polished to a mirror of silver".
 

Tazman

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Kid Quick said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazman
It's a balancing act between getting a girl who you'd like to have sex with and one who isn't crazy or flighty. Men have to go through this whole song and dance to get some ass. Some (like myself) just don't see the benefit in putting forth all this effort for something that may or may not even satisfy you. Some guys live their lives around getting women, they're probably the ones who don't mind the chase. I get sick of it, I just want some ass once in a while, but that's just me I guess. I'm not a very outgoing person.


You describe my situation pretty well. I don't expend much effort to get women, and get only occasional tail. I used to think something was wrong with my attitude but now that I understand myself better I like it that way. You refer to the cost/benefit ratio of the chase and I agree. If I meet someone worthwhile and she likes me, great, but if I have to pass a number of sh!t tests to prove I'm worthy of her or compete with 10 other men for the honor of her presence it's over.
Amen.
 

Tazman

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Sinistar said:
Another example. A mega-AFC believes that the only relationship worthy women are HB9's or above. So he goes countless years alone with little or no intimate experiences because his belief of HB9 or nothing is incongruent with the reality of experience, attraction, confidence, etc. Then at some point the pain of that belief exceeds the perceived stress of lowering his standards. He nails a HB6. He now has experience but he is not happy. He settled. Then over time he begins to accept what he thinks is 'fate', that he is limited to the pool of HB6's. He even make reason's not to seek out the HB9's.
Why would it be wrong or unhealthy for this "mega-AFC" to have settled for a less attractive woman, if he believes this is his limit? What kind of normal, healthy, heterosexual guy wouldn't want to have sex with what he deems a hot piece of ass? We ALL want that, but there's a catch. She may not want YOU. That's the cold-hard reality of it.

Let's say you're an ugly guy. A successful, clean, and smart ugly guy who dresses and speaks well. All these other factors besides your "ugliness" will definitely help your cause, but they in no way guarantee you will get what you desire.

People lower their standards because the stress of holding out for what they "perceive" to be better is worse. I think people in general know what is and isn't possible given their circumstances. However, I'm not condoning any kind of abusive or painful relationship that threatens your well-being, that, I believe is a different matter.
 

joekerr31

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hehe, im liking this thread.

people settle for one of three reasons in my opinion...

1) they get tired
2) they are afraid and want things put to bed
3) they find what they were looking for

about 45% of folks suffer from #1
about 45% of folks suffer from #2
about 5% experience #3

now don't get me wrong, when #1 and #2 are present, sometimes a woman can seem like she's #3.

It's only when #1 and #2 AREN'T there and yet #3 exists that you've found the one.


personally i think a lot of people just get tired of carrying the weight of their own life on their own shoulders. and because 'friendships' typically don't allow for the level of co-dependence that people are looking for in order to off-load their issues, people look for relationships to find what they need.

anyway, this goes back to what i've always said.... take care of YOUR life and guess what:

1) your odds of landing chics will go up
2) your ability to not get screwed over goes up
3) even if you don't get chics, well, at least your life is pretty damn good regardless. haha.
 

squirrels

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I think the question you need to ask yourself is...is every obstacle you encounter on your path to seduction of a particular woman REALLY a "sh!t test"?

A lot of people on here (and everywhere for that matter) don't even really understand what a "sh!t test" is. It really IS a test...that's why it's called that. It's designed to separate those who CAN handle a woman from those who CAN'T.

You think you're somehow retaining dignity by "refusing to deal with women" who offer you sh!t tests...the truth is that the attitude you're taking, throwing your hands up in the air and refusing to "deal with all the BS" just to get what you want, is a FAILURE of the sh!t-test. Becoming frustrated is a sure sign to the woman that you are NOT ready/qualified to handle the risks that dealing with women of that caliber provides.

There is no surer way to qualify a man's character than put him in a difficult or uncomfortable emotional situation and watch him respond. Does he rise to the occasion or does he shrink from it? Does he keep his cool or does he become angry/frustrated? Does he maintain his ground or does he let someone else take the reigns? Does he learn and adapt or does he keep blindly charging forward? Does he persist or does he throw up his hands in defeat?

No one's suggesting you take sh!t from a woman. And yes, if you're constantly taking sh!t from a woman and not making any progress, it's best to cut your losses and move on. But you're STILL looking for the same deal. And it's people who assume that it must be something wrong with the WOMEN that's keeping them from getting laid who will be virgins all their lives.

One girl, maybe it's possible she's a b!tch. Two, coincidence. They're both b!tches. By the third girl, it's time to realize there's something you don't get about seducing the kinds of women you're after...because there ARE guys who are sleeping with these girls...you're just not one of them.

To me, there's not much difference between the guy who sits around saying, "I'm just not good with the ladies/I don't get the ladies" and the guy who says, "I'm tired of putting forth all this effort for the ladies/ladies aren't worth my time". Both are confused and uneducated regarding women and both are too afraid/lazy to observe, try something, and learn.

The only difference is that one is responding by under-valuing himself and the other is responding by over-valuing himself...both of which are acts of the ego...placing boundaries on the self to explain failure rather than overcome it. Either way, the attitude is self-limiting and self-destructive.

Being a Don-Juan is not about "not caring about women". It's about learning to accept risks and persist despite them. It's about learning from your mistakes instead of trying to ego them away.

There's an old adage that floats around this website that states that the person with the most power in a relationship is the person who needs the other the least. That's not entirely true...the person with the most power is the person who takes the most advantage of the relationship, the one who whether it's successful or not, still gets the most out of it. If it works out, you get some of what you are pursuing. If it doesn't, you get a lesson and the opportunity to apply that lesson to any number of future opportunities.
 

ElChoclo

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RT, they prefer it due to cognitive dissonance theory, as the psych books would say.

I couldn't resist joking around with this story, because, lets face it, you have to be a religious figure to get away with parables. But, my comment about having a lot of wood to chop was my own counter parable .

The objective was to cut wood, not to start a shiny axe collection. So the woodsman was right not to keep shining that damn axe. The smith was getting a lot of grinding done for relatively little progress with that axe. There are some here who think that they have to be god's gift to women before they get a f*ck. But the truth is a long way from that. They keep shining their axes but some of them wouldn't know an oak tree from a lamp post.
 

Faca

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squirrels said:
It's designed to separate those who CAN handle a woman from those who CAN'T.
This is exactly what i was thinking, i had for a long time an attitude of what you said. The one that doesn't want to deal with those sh!t test's..
But nothing will change, unless you change from inside. The world you percieve will not change, unless you change your view of that world!

Dont know who came up with the name for it, but it's actually wrong. Using a negative word like sh!t, unconsciously let's new people over here think that's something negative. And that they should avoid that.

And we men also use tests to find out if our women is the right one. You might be aware of this or not! But i won't go on about this, cause this is not what whis thread is about...

- Faca
 

GirlCrazy

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/soapbox on

I know you guys are going to flame me a new a.sshole for saying it, but the way I see it is that we're just one rambling parable shy of:

David versus Goliath and how it applies to banging really tall women

or

Moses parted the red sea, now go part her legs!

All the wisdom of the great philosophers and scholars can concievably be applied to how to improve your lives and bang more chicks in the process, so why the need to constantly regurgitate, reinterpret and reframe what the great minds of history have already perfected? Why not make a post that says "read more books dammit" ? Or better yet, why not just say "CARPE DIEM" and leave it at that?

P.S. Nuke the whales.

/soapbox off
 

squirrels

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GirlCrazy said:
All the wisdom of the great philosophers and scholars can concievably be applied to how to improve your lives and bang more chicks in the process, so why the need to constantly regurgitate, reinterpret and reframe what the great minds of history have already perfected? Why not make a post that says "read more books dammit" ? Or better yet, why not just say "CARPE DIEM" and leave it at that?
Because the sheer number of people on this site is testimony to the fact that most people still haven't "gotten it" yet. Sometimes repeating something a hundred times, rephrased, is the best way to make it "sink in".

P.S. Nuke the whales.
:up:
 
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