Street Defense

[Diaoz]

I saw this on ad-sense earlier today.
http://www.street-self-defense.com/

any views about it?

I'm actually considering between Krav Maga and BJJ at the moment.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Don't buy that bullsh*t.

In terms of actually learning something, jiu-jitsu, boxing, and muay thai are the best.

Although boxing is hardcore, I think muay thai and jiu-jitsu are more applicable on the street, with jiu-jitsu being the most applicable (let's face it, most fights end up in grappling). Also, with jiu-jitsu, you can lock your opponent, as to hold him but not actually injure him, OR, if you must, you also have the ability to inflict harm to him.

I looked into Krav Maga, and it seems a little bogus. It seems more applicable to middle-age women who want to feel like they are practicing "real" fighting skills.

In the end, there's only one way to know if your fighting abilities are up to par, and that's by using them inside the ring. Jiu-jitsu, muay thai, kyokushin karate, boxing...these have all proven themselves.

 

[Alpine]

Krav maga is one of the few 'in the field' tested systems.

People forget nowaday you are just as likely to get stabbed as punched, bjj and MT will not help you here.

Don't get me wrong I train with both boxers and grapplers, but for learning street defence quickly KM is one of your best options.

Find out the credentials of the instructor and how long he's been doing it.

Unfortunately fighting in a ring or on a mat is NOT the way to know how well you will react in a real fight with NO rules.

Kick a boxer in the shins, bite a grapplers adams apple out, no ref, concrete floor, other opponents, knives etc etc.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

In theory, Krav Maga seems like a great "self-defense" course. But it really doesn't do it. You really think that learning a few little knife defending techniques is going to save you?

I don't think so. If you really want to become good at knife fighting, take some Kali.

I was going to go toa Krav Maga 8 week course taught by one of the few actual certified teachers of the Israeli school. But I didn't. One of the things the class seemed to emphasize was "rape prevention." It seems more like women self-defense to me.

No matter how "realistic" an art tries to be, if it's not practiced in the ring or on the mat, in what is called SPARRING, then it isn't going to do much. Part of being a good fighter is knowing how to react. The only way that can teach that is sparring.

 

[Alpine]

So what you are saying now is that you should carry a blade

I train with no lie blades at least 3 times a week (kali/escrima and apache), it becomes obvious after a short time what works and what doesn't and very few MA, if any have a better unarmed knife defense strategy, not to mension situational awareness, stress innoculation etc.

The only other system that yeilds less hits (that I know of) is the Jim Wagner knife defense, again NOT a marshal art.

I only labour the point because I know many guys from different fighting systems that were all ****y and full of it with their various art that they spent 10 yrs practicing, then they got stuck by some kid with a screwdriver or something.

 

[nw1512]

Listen to Alpine

I trained Krav for 3 years, and it's the best weapon defence system there is. It's not just about knife fighting either it's for axes, hammers, clubs, bats etc.

We had a regular group of about 5 guys who trained 3 nights a week with me, newbies would only show once due to the brutal nature of it.

If you want to do Krav find a class the not many women go to so it's not nice and friendly

I'm now a blue belt in BJJ and shootfighting.

 

[Ricky]

Man I saw an ad for one of these companies making these and have been besieged with ads ever since. It does look cool

I'll look in my email and post the site. I want to say its something like TRS systems, but that's not the website yet. In any event they have tons of videos all of which look awesome, none of which I've ordered. I'm too cheap!

 

[Laney]

That website you gave a link to... Buy anything from there and you deserve to get mugged.

Wait a minute, if you buy anything from there you HAVE been mugged!



www.Senshido.com

Have a look at that instead, you can't beat the concepts and techniques off there, promise.

 

[Gus]

I recommend the RAT (rapid assault tactics) fighting system. I have some videos by Paul Vunak about this and they are very good. RAT is the same kind of fighting system taught to many elite military teams (Green Berets, Navy Seals, Delta Force, SWAT teams, and basically and Spec Ops team). Vunak is an actual instructor for this and is hired by most of those teams for instruction.

Here's his website, and here's the video that I own.

The video on that website is particularly pricey, I'm sure it can be found for less at a different site.

 

[Alpine]

Is the RAT thing like the straight blast chain punch?

That is very effective and is a wing chun/JKD based move.

Again though, if someones got a weapon it's no good if you are going to bleed to death afterwards.

These special forces connections always make me chuckle. Think about it. You are a SF guy, when on gods earth are you going to fight hand to hand? Shoot them, stick them or run away, sorry tactical withdrawal. Spend more time on the range or become intimate with the potential of your entrenching tool.

Every MA instructor tries to muscle in on SF training, it's good for business and a great brag at parties.

 

[Robbie]

If you want to enter an MMA tournament, then it makes sense to know ground fighting, submissions, clinch technique, takedown defense, and some form of boxing or kickboxing.

These same martial arts might help you against someone on the street if they are dumb enough to let you know they're going to attack you and come at you in the same manner as a boxer, a wrestler, or a mixed martial artist would come at you in match with rules.

Otherwise, street fighting is hard to predict. It's better to train in almost any martial art than to be completely defenseless if someone is going to attack you, but a good street fighter is probably not going to want to get hurt and he will make sure that you will not be able to use physical attributes or fighting skills to your advantage.

For every idiot that steps to you, engages you in a stand off, or otherwise gives you the opportunity to attack first or otherwise prepare for whatever it is he is going to come at you with, there is a smarter man who is going to make sure that when he attacks, he'll have every advantage. If someone comes at you from behind with a weapon in a room full of his friends and you happen to be drunk, then your martial art better have prepared you for absorbing blows, squeezing past people quickly, and running to safety.

Likewise, people who bite, gouge, scrape, poke, twist, and use weapons can inflict a lot of damage a lot faster and with less effort than one would need to procure a triangle choke or develop enough speed and technique to knock someone out with a punch or a kick.

Bottom line: street fighting sucks. Nice clean fights are far and few. Better to fight in the gym with someone you respect. If someone on the street loses their temper and wants to exchange sloppy blows with you and you don't think they're going to pull a weapon, poke you in the eye, or call over five of their friends, I suppose having some sort of mixed martial arts training would be helpful. But then the police show up and people take sides. Can't help you there.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

I don't care for all the systems that try to mimick the exact details of all the absurd circumstances that might come up in a street fight.

If you are really worried about getting attacked on the street, why not just carry some pepper spray or something?

I think that MMA teaches the best skill that will help you in a street fight...quick rooted instinct.

 

[Gus]

Every MA instructor tries to muscle in on SF training, it's good for business and a great brag at parties.

My father was a Green Berets, and he bought that tape for me because it's what he learned. Spec Ops soldiers need hand-to-hand combat even more than regular soldiers because they MUST have a diverse arsenal of tools (what if they get captured? or they run out of ammo? or their gun jams? hand-to-hand combat is ESSENTIAL).

Anyway, Vunak doesn't deal with specific situations. I can't remember the exact acronym, but basically the goal is to inflict a large amount of pain in one move, then immobilize. He does not teach long, drawn-out fights, but he teaches how to quickly (in less than 3 moves) immobilize an attacker.

I think he starts with defensive blocks that will immobilize the opponent, then offensive moves (like finger jabs, etc.) that inflict huge amounts of pain, then extremely destructive moves (headbutts, knees, elbows, etc.). In theory, you would do them in that order in a fight...but if you're pissed, you'll probably go straight to the destruction part .

I don't even think he teaches any kind of regular punch or kick. Just very fast, destructive, practical moves.

 

[Alpine]

SOE developed a hand to hand system for it's operatives behind the lines during the war, however that was because they were likely to be in civvies, unarmed and required a silent kill.

However even here the use of some type of modified weapon is vastly superior even to a conditioned palm.

If you get to the stage where you are relying on hand to hand combat as a POW, probably weak, injured and totally out numbered, you are much better off playing the grey man and taking your beatings.

 

[Alpine]

SOE developed a hand to hand system for it's operatives behind the lines during the war, however that was because they were likely to be in civvies, unarmed and required a silent kill.

However even here the use of some type of modified weapon is vastly superior even to a conditioned palm.

If you get to the stage where you are relying on hand to hand combat as a POW, probably weak, injured and totally out numbered, you are much better off playing the grey man and taking your beatings.

Most SF do have unarmed combat in the syllabus, but it is the most basic of basic, and is often squeazed out. The only exception is if you are on a close protection cycle.

 

[manuva]

UAC is an integral part of SF training, take it from someone who's been there. Yes its basic; basic is always preferable. The more complex something is the more chance of it ****ing up. Give me basic every time.

For whoever said its not relevant - you're a fool. War is unpredictable. Combat is unpredictable. The very role of SF is to live right under the nose of the enemy, and in that position any form of combat might be required in the blink of an eye. Why would you send soldiers into that situation without giving them a thorough grounding in something so simple as UAC, immobilising (POW handling), incapacitating, and basic grappling/killing moves. Something like being able to kill aggressive dogs with your hands is as important as being able to camouflage and conceal yourself - ignorance in either area could land you on the two way range in less time than it takes to think.

In every UAC course I did, the instructor was always a guy you would never believe capable of any sort of violence. And, as with all things SF, they were quiet and unassuming. They had no websites, training videos, public profile or any bull**** like that. They were all relatively anonymous guys, capable of inflicting all sorts of grievous bodily harm.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

The problem is, you know all these complicated moves and when your fight or flight response kicks in you can not execute them properly, sparing practice can help, but there is no substitute for real experince. I think somthing like krav maga will work but only at the start of a fight because as the fight builds up the adrelinin takes over, completly. You can lose your hearing and get tunnel vision and just lose complete control fo your body in this situation (hence the weak strikes mentioned in the article in the original post)

There is no form of fighting that is going to help you if you are loosing control of your central nervous system.

 

[manuva]

Originally posted by check_mate_kid_uk
The problem is, you know all these complicated moves and when your fight or flight response kicks in you can not execute them properly, sparing practice can help, but there is no substitute for real experince. I think somthing like krav maga will work but only at the start of a fight because as the fight builds up the adrelinin takes over, completly. You can lose your hearing and get tunnel vision and just lose complete control fo your body in this situation (hence the weak strikes mentioned in the article in the original post)

There is no form of fighting that is going to help you if you are loosing control of your central nervous system.

I am certain this is not spoken from experience.

 

[Alpine]

Well all I know is if US (so called) SF spent more time training to shoot identifiable targets rather than poncing around on a Judo mat there would be a few more friendly forces knocking around and not coming back in body bags.

 

[manuva]

US fire discipline is appalling, they're pretty much the laughing stock since Iraq.

That being the case, a good soldier is one who is prepared for anything; be it a threat from near or far.