SelfDefence -> Work Out or Learn Martial Arts

BMW

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although martial arts/boxing do enhance your fighting skills, please don't make the mistake of thinking that you can beat 90% of the people out there by taking martial arts/boxing. Let me show you some clips and you can judge how effective are martial arts when you got guys going crazy on you:

http://qt.webintellects.com/~realfight/sf1.mov

http://qt.webintellects.com/~realfight/sf2.mov

http://qt.webintellects.com/~realfight/ghetto.mov

Now don't get me wrong. I love martial arts/boxing because I've done Muay Thai ("MT") for almost a year. Brazilian Ju Jitsu ("BJJ")for a little more than one year. Few months of boxing. Few years of karate. I am still active in the BJJ and MT game. However, I am not trained in gauging people's eyes out, biting people, and rest of the methods that typical street fighters use. All I am saying is that martial arts are great but please keep it real.
 

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fullpint

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although martial arts/boxing do enhance your fighting skills, please don't make the mistake of thinking that you can beat 90% of the people out there by taking martial arts/boxing. Let me show you some clips and you can judge how effective are martial arts when you got guys going crazy on you:
This is exactly why you can win in a street fight. If someone is just going crazy then they probably have no idea what they are doing and will wear themselves out very quickly. You just have to know how to defend and when to attack. Training is all about sharpening your instincts. This is exactly why katas don't work and bjj, MT, and boxing do work.

Trust me, if you have honestly trained a solid year of BJJ and MT, then you should easily be able to win AT LEAST 90% of ONE-ON-ONE streetfight confrontations regardless of size differences(probably more), especially if you are in halfway decent shape. Its all about sparring. Thats what makes you better. Now, if you just go to class and learn the techniques, but don't spend anytime sparring, then you are as good as dead.
 

chicksrock

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Thanks for the video clips BMW...
hehehe ..i very much enjoyed the p0rn parts of the video clips!!
LOL

OK my question is this

Do you think fighting spirit is more important than technique..?
say in a fight you're really fvcking angry and pumped and willing to do anything to kick some ass...even kick your opponents teeth in!

i would logically think that fighting spirit more than 50% makes up for your self-defence skill in a punch up fight/ ?\
 

fullpint

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Do you think fighting spirit is more important than technique..?
Fighting spirit, as you call it, is somewhat important. The great thing about training in martial arts is that after you have been training a while with regular sparing everything seems to move in slow motion. In a street fight confrontation the ability to keep your cool and think without just spazzing out (like the other guy is likely doing) is far more effective than just some "fighting spirit."

I've been training BJJ and MT for about 5 years now. I also spent the better part of college bouncing and bartending in clubs. I've been in plenty of confrontations and its laughable how easy it is to control someone simply by keeping your cool and knowing what to do.

The most important thing is to avoid streetfights alltogether. These situations RARELY end up one-on-one.
 

chicksrock

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cool... thanks for the advice dude..
 

ShortTimer

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You really need to do both physical conditioning and the martial art itself. Ever seen one of those 300 lb black belts out there? They exist and no, they cannot defend themselves.

If you want real self defence then you'll need a combative art, and a teacher who will do you right. I think one of the best ways to find that kind of school is to go around to the ones in your area and find which one a bunch of cops / military reguarly train at.

You'll want something that will include weapon training, and by that I mean with and against weapons. If you can get some good knife training you'll learn how to defend against an opponent with one, but you'll also learn where to use it on someone and not kill them with it.
 

chicksrock

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Thanks for everyone's advice...
to update all of you I am taking BJJ lessons AND working out !
And I feel GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!

:)
 

Suicide

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There's a line that has been drawn here between so called "modern" martial arts and "traditional ones". Perhaps I can help clear this up.

The modern martial arts (BJJ, Krav Maga, Systema, etc) are effective, and they are effective, to a point, from the first time you learn them. The attraction of these systems is that they do not require years of training to be able to defend yourself using them - which is why these and systems like them are taught to modern police and military. However, these systems can be limited in their adaptability.

Traditional martial arts ( a term I'm using loosely- I'm speaking of traditional jujutsu, kung-fu, etc - I am not a proponent of Aikido, modern TKD, etc) can be extremely effective, and when they are grasped up to a certain level, will often times be more effective than the modern martial arts, becuase these systems are HUGE and study the principles of actual combat to a deeper degree - IF you put the time required into them. The caveat, however, is that it will no doubt take you several (at least 3-4) years of steady training in these systems to truely get a solid grasp on the concepts and be able to use them in a real engagement. Traditional martial arts are very much "you get out what you put in".

On the issue of kata. I can tell people who dismiss kata as useless have not put the time into their martial art as to really understand them, or have not been instructed properly. Traditional kata are designed to teach you a PRINCIPLE, not to be used in actual combat. I fear for the person who takes that approach and trys a pre-designed pattern upon a living opponent.

Personally, I train in traditional ju-jutsu which includes ground and standing fighting, striking and grappling, among other things. But several years ago when I had only been training for a year or so, I would have hesitated to proclaim my ability to defend myself with the methods, as I had not (and still do not, to a lesser extent - we are all still learning) grasped the methods and theories. Do what you enjoy and what you have time for. My martial art is a huge commitment, and I will admit that I firmly believe I could defend myself in any engagement becuase of it; simply because practicing my martial art and polishing my skills as a warrior is how I choose to spend a good deal of my time.

As far as fitness vs. martial art: strengh is useless without technique, and technique is useless without proper strength to apply it. Look at Bruce Lee. An incredible martial artist, he was a stern advocate of western training methods as well. I would highly reccomend "The Art of Expressing the Human Body", which covers Bruce's weight training methods as was concerned with his martial art. You may be strong, but you also must know how to properly apply your muscles to gain the maximum benefit and efficiency from your technique.

Fighting spirit will kill you in a fight. Idealy, you should be able to remain logical and rely on your techniques. What if, when you are so enraged and are brawling with an opponent, another picks up a chair and runs over to you with the intention of harming you? A true, confident martial artist will be in a state of mind to direct his attention to the bigger threat, deal with it, and carry on accordingly. Peak awareness at all times during a fight is absolutely nessecary.

The complete martial artist will train in technique, strength, endurance and flexibility. Letting any of these slack is to fall short, and your life may one day depend on any or all of them.

Good luck in your training!
 

chicksrock

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thanks for your insightful post suicide..
 

undesputable

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Originally posted by chicksrock

Do you think fighting spirit is more important than technique..?
fighting is 90% mental, the other half is physical.... the MAIN mind set about fighting is having NO FEAR....of course while taking some precautions....
 

fatkins

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Cross train biatch:

BJJ

Muay Thai

Jeet Kune Do (surprised no one has mentioned this)

Krav Maga
 

DJBen

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Originally posted by fatkins
Cross train biatch:

BJJ

Muay Thai

Jeet Kune Do (surprised no one has mentioned this)

Krav Maga
It'd take ages to get smooth in combining all of that. They'd be hesitation in your movements as you decide what you're gonna do next.

BJJ and MT would do. KM doesnt go well with JKD as far as I understand it.

About the TMA = good post, agreed. IF you have the plans to stick with it long term, you learn how to protect yourself and learn a lot of discipline and even a new way of life. Thats much more beneficial than learning how to punch, kick and break the **** out of someone you'll get into a fight with down town :p
 

Liquid

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Any of these will do, and a combination of grappling and striking is ideal.

Wrestling
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Boxing
Muay Thai
Judo (don't think it works in MMA? Check out Karo Parisyan or Fedor Emelianenko)

I compete in MMA for a living. Train hard, and don't forget to hit the weights as well.

Good luck.
 

fatkins

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Originally posted by DJBen
It'd take ages to get smooth in combining all of that. They'd be hesitation in your movements as you decide what you're gonna do next.

BJJ and MT would do. KM doesnt go well with JKD as far as I understand it.

About the TMA = good post, agreed. IF you have the plans to stick with it long term, you learn how to protect yourself and learn a lot of discipline and even a new way of life. Thats much more beneficial than learning how to punch, kick and break the **** out of someone you'll get into a fight with down town :p
LOL the point I was making was not to cross train to use it all at once in a fight but to be prepared for any situation, would you really try to incorporate all of those in a fight...ofcourse you wouldn't
 

DJBen

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I couldnt resist :D

Yeah - I used to do TKD for a while and scrapped the high kicks. Then I did some boxing. I thought if someone grabbed me, I'm done for if I cant strike my way out of it. So I did some grappling stuff. I trained in a few more MMA's for a while and realised that I could take care of myself in a fight, and I wasnt ready to do a TMA fully, so I gave it all up for a while.

It hit me that I dont need any sort of style, I just need power and smooth transitions between punching and kicking. That wasnt a problem cause they were just low kicks, so I had it all sorted.

All I use now are low kicks to the knees and inside-thigh, hooks, jabs and straight rights - with some throws and locks when I'm grabbed. If you throw solid strikes and know how to get out of grabs, I think you'll be able to stand up against 95% of the people out and about. The truely tough ones are either already in prison, or avoid street fights cause they have a tourny/event coming up soon ;)

The chain is only as strong as the weakest link, so to speak.
 

Phaint

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I was interested in taking Brazilian Jui Jitsu and was reading up on it a bit and see its all about grapples basically. How is that useful for normal real life fights?

People usually go all out and crap and you are going to grab them and bring them to the floor and hold them there? By then his friends would come and beat the crap out of you. Compared to taking a form of martial arts that you actually could defend yourself and not leaving yourself vulnerable (ie... on the floor vulnerable for anyone else to beat the crap out of you)

I've never taken a martial arts in my life and have several friends that take different types (TKD, Karate, Hung Gar Kung Fu) and they tell me that BJJ and Boxing and such would suck in normal street fights. They admit MT is a niceass style but I don't think there are any schools in the miami area for that :mad:
 
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chicksrock

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BJJ is da sh!t :)

I love it...

take a few lessons, ask your instructor any concerns you have....and he'll prove to you how BJJ is the most effective fighting method
 

NobleMuscle

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Originally posted by chicksrock
I want to learn self defence these holidays, it will me feel more confident about myself.

I wasn't sure whether it is best to work out and build those biceps, or learn a martial art.
In self defence which is more effective.
ie can karate kid beatup a WWF wrestler ...or is it the other way round?

and if learning martial art is better, which form should I learn.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated!
:)
Muscles are armour.
 
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