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SEDUCTION: Your key to attraction!

Discussion in 'Don Juan Tips' started by xblitz44x, Oct 2, 2002.

  1. xblitz44x

    xblitz44x Master Don Juan

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    Seduction is an area of this site that has been neglected and signficantly underestimated. Everytime that you've successfully number-closed a chick, or kiss-closed a chick, or fvck-closed a chick, you must have seduced her in SOME WAY in order for her to be attracted enough to comply to your requests.

    Conversely, everytime that a woman has neglected to give her phone number, or flaked when you've phoned her, or stopped you when you've tried sliding her panties off, you have FAILED to properly seduce her.

    Seduction can be defined as: To entice or beguile into a desired state or position

    The goal behind seduction is to push your target into the desired state of mind so that she will do what you want her to do. This goes hand in hand with attraction because by you making her FEEL certain sensations, and experience states of mind, she will be ATTRACTED to the way that YOU make her feel.

    There are many different tactics and maneuvers for pushing your target though the states that you want her to experience. I will discuss a few of those here.

    Mirroring

    Have you ever had a deep, interesting conversation with somebody that you were comfortable with, and noticed that your posture almost directly matches theirs? You probably didn't, because it happens in your sub-concious. When two people are comfortable with each other, their postures MIRROR one another to the point where if you were to change your stance, they would change their stance. Your breathing patterns might mirror. All of this happens without EITHER party consciously noticing.

    The act of Mirroring in seduction suggests that if you mirror HER posture, her sub-concious will pick up on this and assume that she is COMFORTABLE AND that rapport exists between the two of you. Begin by keeping a 2 second delay from when she changes posture. Keep focus on her eyes, do not look at the parts of her body that are shifting or you'll draw attention to her concious mind that you are monitoring her body. Afer a few minutes into the conversation, you can shorten the delay to about a second, and finally instantaneous. So everytime she moves, you move. Try to mirror her breath frequency and depth. Soon, you'll notice that SHE will be mirroring YOU, because her sub-conscious is convinced that she must be comfortable with you.

    Trance Words

    When you have a deep, meaningful conversation with a chick, you'll notice that the words that are important to her, she repeats over and over. It is these words that have VALUE to her. These are her TRANCE WORDS. In a conversation, try to use these words as much as you can, so that her sub-conscious will pick up on it and realize that they must be important to you too. But repeating these words back to her, she will think that you sincerely understand her and can relate to what she is talking about. For example:

    You: What do you think is the most important part of a relationship?
    Her: Well I think that it is so important to have honesty and trust. If you can't trust your parnter
    than the relationship really can't evolve past the surface level.
    (Trance Word: Trust)
    You: Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. Two people must be able to trust each other, because without trust, we can never really acheive full potential as a couple.

    Notice how I would basically repeat what she said to me, except I changed the words. She notices that my beliefs are very similar to hers (of course they are, SHE JUST TOLD ME WHAT THEY WERE!). She sees this as a "connection" of some sort. From this commonality we can build.

    Value

    The most important part of seduction IMO, is demonstrating your value. If you approach a woman, and she blows you off, or if she never returns your calls, or if she turns you down for a date, you have not shown her the VALUE that you can provide to her.

    If she sees no VALUE in you, than she has no reason to pick up the phone to call you, or to make an effort to see you again. You are no good to her without some type of VALUE. Now when we speak of value, it could be: good looks/muscles, humor, intellegence, your great mood, positive outlook, money, power. All of these are examples of what SOME WOMEN value. Lets take good looks/big muscles for example. When she is around you, your presence alone makes her horney and she gets leaky puzzy. She loves feeling this way, therefore she sees VALUE in you. Now lets take great mood. If you are always in a great mood, optomistic than you can make her feel good and positive no matter HOW she feels. She will notice that everytime she is around you her attitude changes and she feels HAPPY. This is a VALUE that you bring to her.

    You cannot expect her to want to be with you just because you are you, you NEED to demonstrate value.


    Eliciting Values

    Eliciting Values is different than demonstrating your value. When you are Eliciting Values, you are finding out what is important to her, what SHE values, transforming into a man that can give her that, and finally providing her with it. In order for you to Elicit Value, you must first ask questions that will give you important information about her values. This is why I said in my recent posts that you cannot just go into a Pick-Up saying the first thing that comes to your mind. You must ask questions that will ONLY get her panties closer to her ankles. By asking random questions and ignoring the answers you are wasting vital time. For example:

    Me: So what is it that you like to do with your spare time?
    Her: I like to exercise, rock climb, and write poetry.
    Me: Wow, rock climbing, what is it that you like about that?
    Her: I like how it is a little dangerous, it is exciting.

    From this conversation, I've discovered that she likes to feel a little in danger. She loves the excitment of living on the edge. From this you should TRANSFORM yourself into a man that can provide her with these feelings that SHE VALUES! You can do this by taking her out on an exciting date, driving waaay past the speed limit, or PATTERNING her about dangerous things (more on patterning later) Lets take another example...

    Me: What traits to you find sexy in a man?
    Her: I love a guy that is aggressive and confident with himself.
    Me: Oh ok, how does that make you feel when your with a guy like that?
    Her: Umm...well I feel like he's in control and I feel secure.

    So in this case you know that being passive is not going to work for you. You need to TAKE CONTROL of every situation and do things that make her feel safe with you. Why? Because this is what SHE VALUES! Everytime you have a conversation with a chick, ELICIT VALUE so that you know what she admires and desires. When you know what she desires, GIVE IT TO HER!

    Amazing Connection

    I have yet to meet a woman who is not mesmorized by the thought of meeting her "soul-mate" or love at first sight. Most women believe they are living their own fairytale and are searching for the male star. In order to become that male star, you must bring it to her attention that you two have a lot of things in common and it is amazing to connect with somebody on such a level. To do this:

    1) Ask her what she likes to do with her spare time.
    2) Pick one of the activities that likes to do
    3) Talk about how much you love it, and how rare it is to find somebody that has the same passion in it as you.
    4) Continue to talk about it, get her to FEEL what it feels like to engage in this activity.

    Do this as much as you possibly can. If you notice any commanalities at all, bring them to her attention so that she believes you are her romance novel man, her soul mate. After you've done this a few times, say something along the lines of:

    "Can you remember what it felt like when you were in front of somebody that you maybe just recently met, but it feels like you've known this person for ever? You feel yourself start to relax, and open up to him because it seems so natural, as if we connect on some deeper level? With me, I don't think it can be forced, but when it does happen, it feels amazing"

    By saying this, I am asking her to remember a time that she felt this way. In order for her to remember that, she has to FEEL IT. So you are calling up this feeling of being comfortable in front of you, then you just keep feeding the fire by talking about his deep connection and how great it feels. She will be feeling the connection while in your presence, therefore assume that the connection is WITH you.

    Patterning

    This takes us into patterning. Patterning is the use of words that cause her to feel a certain way, and experience a certain state of mind. In order for her to feel a certain way, you must recreate the scenario which would cause her to feel this. For example, if you've Elicited Values, and found out that she loves to feel safe in a man's presence, then you could say something like this:

    "Can you remember a time when you were 100% comfortable and secure around somebody. When you walked holding his hand, you could feel his energy watching over you, it felt like you could never be harmed, he is your knight in shining armor and no matter what happened, you always felt like you were safe and protected?"

    Now, in order for her to tell you if she remembers this time, she has to FEEL what you are talking about. In this case, she has to FEEL PROTECTED to tell me if she's ever felt this. The next thing she knows, YOU are making her feel protected just by your words. She'll eventually notice that she feels safe around you, but can't figure out why. It is because your words recreated this feeling inside of her. She won't care about what caused it, but instead WHO caused it.

    If you want her to feel horney, you could say something like this:

    "My brother just called me, he just lost his virginity this weekend and he was asking me for tips. Remember back when you were younger, and you had this one lover that could always do things to your body that would send tingles dancing down your spine, and could cause butterflies to tickle your belly. This person would penetrate you with his thoughts and just his presence along caused tingles to run down your arms, to the ends of your finger tips."

    If all goes well, she will feel the tingles as I describe them. She has to feel them now to compare them to see if she's ever felt them in the past.

    Routines

    Before you go into a PU, you should have certain target STATES in your mind. You should have a schedule of what state you want your target to be in, at what point. Everything you say should progress towards getting her ready to fvck you. There should be nothing that digresses the conversation. An example routine might be something like this:

    1) Introduction
    2) Use Trance words and Mirror to make her feel comfortable
    3) Elicit her values and regurgitate them back
    4) Run the amazing connection on her so that she trusts you
    5) Disarm her by seperating yourself from others
    6) Use sexual accelerators like Kino and Patterning to turn her on
    7) Try to f-close her, if not get her number


    # Closing

    Getting phone numbers is emphasized WAY too much on this board. As great as it feels to get phone numbers, rarely does it ever pan out into a fvck. The reason is, I'm willing to bet there were so many times in YOUR past that you were talking to a chick for the first time, and she was so attracted to you and turned on that she WOULD have fvcked you, have you not ended the seduction prematurly by getting her phone number. when you get a phone number, she is going with her emotions, she is going with feelings. BUT when you go to call her, she has time to analyze the facts such as (is he really good looking, do I have time for him, am I really attracted to him). Giving her time to think can only be bad for you. It would be a much better option to get her turned on, isolate her from the public, and make your move on her.

    If you ARE going to number close her, make sure that you have seduced her properly so that she sees enough VALUE in you to bother with you again. A lot of recent # number flakes on this board have been product of the guy not attracting her enough during the initial PU.

    The Woman's Attitude

    Women love to fvck. This is 100% true. Women love to fvck just as much as men do. However, to prevent themselves from feeling like a slut, you must create a real or superficial relationship with her INSIDE OF HER MIND before she'll fvck you. Most chicks WILL NOT sleep with you if you haven't shown her your value and established that connection with her. When she feels that connection, she can validate her slutty actions by saying "Oh he's different, the chemistry is amazing between us"...THEN, her fvck is validated by the fact that you two are magically "meant to be".

    She'll fvck you if you show her it's ok to do so.

    -Blitz


    [This message has been edited by xblitz44x (edited 10-02-2002).]
     
  2. MG69

    MG69 Senior Don Juan

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    thats just great!
     
  3. CaliMike

    CaliMike Don Juan

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    Thank you sir. Good stuff.
     
  4. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    Looking back on things, I have seen that the times in my life when women have been most attracted to me is when my routines and conversation targeted a WIDE RANGE of emotions in her. This is why speaking from the heart is so important, the better you connect with feels and the wider range of feelings you touch, the more she will feel that being with you is something that truly belongs.

    Excellent post, blitz. You have developed a solid understanding of the stuff.

    ------------------
    - The performer known as Nick
     
  5. rbd

    rbd Senior Don Juan

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    excellent! it's great to see someone that has taken all of these techniques and put them under one post!

    Robby
     
  6. Pook

    Pook Master Don Juan

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    This is EXCELLENT! xblitz44x, I want to use your post to illustrate a point.

    DISCLAIMER: One can learn a lot with speed seduction. You can learn how to be more at ease with talking to them (since women are more comfortable with talking about feelings then anything intellectual), and good to give a starting point of 'how-tos' when you deal with women.

    That said, my issue with SS has always been the SPIRIT of SS: that it destroys the Man within to turn you into a Metamorph to fit the woman's lust. (Yet, SS has the vanity to think that it is altering the woman!)

    "So everytime she moves, you move. Try to mirror her breath frequency and depth."

    Your body behavior has become reactive.

    "a conversation, try to use these words as much as you can, so that her sub-conscious will pick up on it and realize that they must be important to you too. But repeating these words back to her, she will think that you sincerely understand her and can relate to what she is talking about."

    Your vocabulary has become reactive.

    The most important part of seduction IMO, is demonstrating your value. If you approach a woman, and she blows you off, or if she never returns your calls, or if she turns you down for a date, you have not shown her the VALUE that you can provide to her.

    This is true in that you are THE PRIZE TO BE WON and that she is after to CATCH YOU.

    But notice that with this you now cease to be Man and become reactive of values based on WOMAN'S RESPONSE. Gone is integrity! You want to create the 'values' that WORKS toward her lust. Thus, the manner of these 'values' are all going to react to her lust.

    When you are Eliciting Values, you are finding out what is important to her, what SHE values, transforming into a man that can give her that, and finally providing her with it.

    No longer are you a Man! Now you are a Shifter! You are bending yourself towards what she wants. (This is the Average Frustrated Chump that ceases to be frustrated. Notice that he is still a chump.)

    Now, if you were merely to pick out common things she said and leap on those to build a common ground, that would be one thing (which is called 'good conversation skills'). But the entire SPIRIT of this SS is based entirely in HER eyes, how SHE must see you, how SHE must percieve you.

    From this conversation, I've discovered that she likes to feel a little in danger. She loves the excitment of living on the edge. From this you should TRANSFORM yourself into a man that can provide her with these feelings that SHE VALUES!

    Not only are you to TRANSFORM yourself, you are to PROVIDE HER those feelings she LUSTS for. This is the Social Dildo who's social behavior is geared only toward tapping female lust (which itself is fine but triggering her lust TRUMPS your own values. You are to be transformed).

    Most women believe they are living their own fairytale and are searching for the male star. In order to become that male star, you must bring it to her attention that you two have a lot of things in common and it is amazing to connect with somebody on such a level.

    To become that male star! Now you live for HER fantasy!

    After you've done this a few times, say something along the lines of:

    "Can you remember what it felt like when you were in front of somebody that you maybe just recently met, but it feels like you've known this person for ever? You feel yourself start to relax, and open up to him because it seems so natural, as if we connect on some deeper level? With me, I don't think it can be forced, but when it does happen, it feels amazing"


    First, your body behavior became reactive. Then your vocabulary. Then your values and character. Now your speech is to sound like a banquet of fluffy words all arranged to reflect her own lust back to her.

    If you want her to feel horney, you could say something like this:

    "My brother just called me, he just lost his virginity this weekend and he was asking me for tips. Remember back when you were younger, and you had this one lover that could always do things to your body that would send tingles dancing down your spine, and could cause butterflies to tickle your belly. This person would penetrate you with his thoughts and just his presence along caused tingles to run down your arms, to the ends of your finger tips."

    If all goes well, she will feel the tingles as I describe them. She has to feel them now to compare them to see if she's ever felt them in the past.


    Now you are talking like a girl! Anyone who is around women consistantly know that all they talk about is sex, sex, and everything surrounding sex.

    Getting phone numbers is emphasized WAY too much on this board. As great as it feels to get phone numbers, rarely does it ever pan out into a fvck.

    Because this board is not a satellite of speed seduction; there are countless boards and discussion areas for that.

    Women love to fvck. This is 100% true. Women love to fvck just as much as men do.

    I would say that women love to 'fvck' MORE than men. In fact, women's entire consciousness revolves around the axis of sexuality.

    However, to prevent themselves from feeling like a slut, you must create a real or superficial relationship with her INSIDE OF HER MIND before she'll fvck you.

    Have I not said that women are entirely sexual BY DEFAULT and their concern is not that they are sexual but on how EVERYONE ELSE percieves it?

    Did I not say that Speed Seduction absolutely does NOTHING to truly 'seduce' her but only bring down the social/reputation dam that keeps women's sexuality from flooding everything and anyone? Here is the confirmation.

    Women will have sex left and right but that fear of 'slut' behavior stops them and frustrates them.

    In other words, women hate virtue and will despise purity. Thus, there are no true 'innocent' girls.

    She'll fvck you if you show her it's ok to do so.

    Well well! She will do you (or anyone with a 'value') as long as you show her its 'ok'! What is romance to a woman but license to act all the things she wants?

    So here lies a mystery. SS pats its own shoulder by saying, "With this knowledge you will influence and alter women's behavior." Yet, it is admitted that women WILL have sex very freely as long as that frame of mind (slut fear) is in place and so you must tear that down (which only we can because MEN create the boundaries of society).

    So why does SS believe that it is altering women when it is merely showing them that it is all 'ok'?

    My answer: vanity. Men want to believe they are sex gods that flip women to them like cards. But as we see, it is women who are ultimately in control with SS. The SSer takes the reactive position.

    Now what has the Man become after all this? He is reacting to how her body behavior, to her speech, to her vocabulary, to her values, to her dreams, and so on. Has he not merely become a boy-toy? I mean, what more CAN he be!?

    Now, if I made any mistakes in the above, do tell me. Error or vanity has never been my objective.

    Just as hard as it was to face the truth of our past AFC/Nice Guyness, so shall seeing the underpinning of SS take similiar courage.

    Now, I have one more question. If SS is truly reacting and 'transforming' one's self to the woman and her dreams...

    Is the SSer truly making love to her or is she merely masturbating herself using him as the physical object? After all, he uses her vocabulary, has her values, acts like she does, and talks like a woman.

    Is this the essence of Speed Seduction?

    ------------------
    POOK
    ------------------------
    "As you think, you shall become."

    "Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
     
  7. xblitz44x

    xblitz44x Master Don Juan

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    Pook,

    I'm not a philosopher, I don't speak with a heavy, vast vocabulary. I just call it like I see it. I have respected your posts greatly in the past, but you're not getting it.

    My goal is to meet a woman, fvck her, and THATS IT. I am interested in the fastest method of doing this, THATS IT. I do not care to compare my techniques to what YOU call a man. Your defination of a man, is NOT mine.

    Pook, on the inside I couldn't care less what she wants. But what I want from her, is sexual gratification. I cannot get this from her FAST unless I make it SEEM to her that I am a man she would feel comfortable fvcking. It APPEARS that I am changing, APPEARS that I'm bending for her, but in reality, NOTHING IS LOST. I am NOT physically or emotionally transforming into this man, I am just APPEARING to do so until she lets me fvck her.

    I disagree Pook. Women APPEAR to be in control, but in reality, I am scultping the situation AROUND her so that I can BE in control and TAKE what I want. When you are presenting yourself in the DJ fashion, the "What you see is what you get method", THEN the woman is in control. She can reject you, or accept you. When you seduce properly, she has no choice but to accept your advanced because you have TRANSFORMED in HER EYES, into the man of her dreams.

    Just because a man has shown her that it is ok to fvck and not feel slutty, it does not mean that she was initially attracted to that man BEFORE he started seducing her. The "making her feel ok" part will only work IF you've intially attracted her with SS.

    For example, if a man who is a 7 in looks, approaches a 9, she may or may not want to fvck him based on his looks alone. Lets say for the sake of argument that she DOESN'T want to fvck him from how he presents himself. The DJ way would be to NEXT her because she doesn't like him for who he is. That is cute, but the DJ is left still wanting to get into her panties. It doesn't matter at this point if he shows her it's ok to fvck. She doesn't WANT to fvck him because she's not attracted.

    If that same 7 approaches the same 9, but instead of just presenting himself and crossing his fingers, he actually elicits her value, mirrors, uses trance words, patterns and successfully attracts, THEN the "show her it's ok to fvck" will come into play.

    Pook you take this "Be A Man" stuff very seriously and honestly, your posts have changed my life in that sense. I have learned from your posts what it means to have upmost respect for yourself, and that YOU are truely the prize to be won. But Speed Seduction is an entirely different game. It gets me more women, faster. I am into Speed Seduction because of the sport of it. Like hunting. I want to fvck women, fast. Many women. There are other guys on this board who want to do that. I want to show them how.

    When I'm not playing my game, I am DJ. I have the same attitude you. But when I'm out in the field wanting to get laid, my SS face is on and I'm ready to play.

    -Blitz

    [This message has been edited by xblitz44x (edited 10-02-2002).]

    [This message has been edited by xblitz44x (edited 10-02-2002).]
     
  8. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    Pook,

    I think you misinterpreted what I had been trying to communicate about "influencing" her. The way in which it influences her is that she is having sex with you (and I mean "you" as in the one seducing her, not another dude) where she otherwise would not have. Also, if a girl is attracted enough to you, you can influence her to change some of her beliefs. Like I always say your influence over her is a product of her attraction to you. For example, some girls have been influenced to believe that sex before marriage is wrong. However, if you (for whatever reason) have enough sexual value to her, you are in a postion to influence her to think differently about that. This is because she WANTS to believe that having sex with you can't be bad, because she is ATTRACTED to you. But before you attracted her, would have had no such influence. Just because you demonstrate similarities between the two of you to make being with you comfortable does not mean "her dreams become your dreams".

    Women being sexual by default (which I am not disagreeing with) doesn't mean she wanted to fvck you to begin with. If there we NO societal restrictions on women's sexuality, do you think that supermodels would be having sex with homeless drifters? Of course not, they would have MORE sex but with men they were attracted to. You emphasize heavily that your romantic life is a reflection of the rest of your life which is to a large extend true. Different area of your life give you a set of tools for attraction. SS is a framework that assists men in developing certain tools of communication to aid them in attracting women.

    Pardon my asking, but who the hell set you up as the authority of what discussion is or is not appropriate on this message board? The Don Juan Center is about meeting, dating and attracting women and I'd say SS is on topic with regards to all of the above (except perhaps the dating part).

    Well, given some of the stuff you have posted recently I don't see how a man can have sex with a woman and have the latter NOT be the case according to Pook. If a woman will have sex with any man who manages to "give her permission" to be the way she naturally is than wouldn't that make any man she ever had sex with a physical manifestation of her masturbation?

    xblitz44x and I have communicated in places other than this board for quite some time now. The guy gets the job done, his style is advanced. If you guys want to start getting the job done yourself, take note.

    ------------------
    - The performer known as Nick
     
  9. Jake Steed

    Jake Steed Master Don Juan

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    Thanks for posting this great summary, Blitz. I hope the kids will read it and take something home.

    Pook, I know where you're coming from and how you feel on the SS topic, but Blitz's post was about SEDUCTION. I think if you are out to seduce for the sport of it and the fun (and it IS fun), then it's all fair game.

    You just have to choose what your own limits are. If you feel that mirroring her makes you no longer a "man", then so be it. But keep in mind that the whole premise of seduction requires you to step out of what's normally comfortable to you and to be diverse in your tactics to GET WHAT YOU WANT.

    Now what has the Man become after all this? He is reacting to how her body behavior, to her speech, to her vocabulary, to her values, to her dreams, and so on. Has he not merely become a boy-toy? I mean, what more CAN he be!? --Pook

    Pook, what do you think you are doing when you approach a girl to pick her up? You are ALTERING your normal routine to go over there and get her. The instant you take that first step towards her, you've already REACTED to her and so your argument becomes moot.

    Take a look at the puzzified boys on this board. "Being a man" is just as alien to them as "eliciting values". By your argument, them "being a man" to get chicks is just as "reactive" as SS! Why do you think these guys are here? Why to you think they are "being a man"?? They want to get laid for christs sake!

    Jake
     
  10. Pook

    Pook Master Don Juan

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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Jake says,

    Why to you think they are "being a man"?? They want to get laid for christs sake!

    It doesn't work like that. Damn it! I'm going to have to explain it in a post now. [​IMG]

    Trickynick says,

    However, if you (for whatever reason) have enough sexual value to her, you are in a postion to influence her to think differently about that. This is because she WANTS to believe that having sex with you can't be bad, because she is ATTRACTED to you. But before you attracted her, would have had no such influence.

    A woman's nature is incompatible with such 'social cages'. Woman are entirely sexual yet our masculine institutions keep them in check.

    You influence her as in taking down that sexual dam that keeps her energies contained. But I still don't think you're making her SEXUAL.

    With men, we are not entirely sexual. We are only partly sexual. So when we do get aroused, it invades our thoughts as something foreign. When aroused, men's behavior erupts into something quite different.

    Women are ENTIRELY sexual. This is why it is so hard to see if they are 'aroused' because they do not have that same eruptive nature as we do (of a foriegn influence).

    The result is that Men are said to be the sexual ones because we SHOW IT more. It is more visible. But women do not show it as clearly since their consciousness and sexuality are both harmonized together. There is no conflict like there is in the male mind.

    SS keeps saying that it is making the girls horny and sexual. I don't buy it. Women are not men. Women are already sexual and are usually in some state of horniness. What can be done is to tear down whatever walls that is keeping her in check.

    This is what I see SS doing. As far as influencing her to have sex, I don't see that. She already wants to have sex.

    My complaint has been with the SPIRIT of SS. Rather than being a man (keeping that transcendent spirit, letting the woman meld to you for you are the prize), you are responding to her sexuality that is 100% a part of her. You entering Dionysius, the feminine realm. You are AIMING at that.

    Pardon my asking, but who the hell set you up as the authority of what discussion is or is not appropriate on this message board? The Don Juan Center is about meeting, dating and attracting women and I'd say SS is on topic with regards to all of the above (except perhaps the dating part).

    Read what I was responding to. It was said that this board was INFERIOR because it was thought to 'focus on phone numbers' which I thought was WRONG. Also, it was said that SS is not being discussed her. That's BS. SS has always been talked about around her. In fact, Red_Xl always posted a lot with SS and NLP.

    There is a UNIQUENESS to this board. I'm sick and tired of these arrogant SSers coming her, seeing that we don't primarily use their tactics, to declare us 'inferior' and post yet another SS post.

    Most webboards of love and men deal are usually AFCness or SS. There are not very many boards like this around here. When I said that this site isn't a satellite of SS, I did NOT say what can or cannot be discussed (it always has). I was pointing out its UNIQUENESS to other clone boards out there.

    Well, given some of the stuff you have posted recently I don't see how a man can have sex with a woman and have the latter NOT be the case according to Pook.

    Posted recently!? This is what amazes me. I am staying consistant! The same thoughts now have been in ALL my posts.

    I'm afraid that one's success to women will overtake their will. I'm afraid that they will then spend all their free energies into the pursuit of women. And what will that leave them?

    This is why I keep saying that women are a relaxation, a choclate cake. They cannot, must not be the focus.

    xblitz44x says,

    My goal is to meet a woman, fvck her, and THATS IT. I am interested in the fastest method of doing this, THATS IT.

    That is FINE if you do. Prostitutes also achieve a similiar effect.

    But whatever you do, do not let it give you a sense of EGO. Why? Because it is not an achievement.

    I have seen too many guys who get girls then they have a huge ego. The result is that they lose their ambition and end up nothings for the rest of their lives.

    I do not care to compare my techniques to what YOU call a man. Your defination of a man, is NOT mine.


    But the rub is that I'm not operating in any philosophy. Nature already has a system set up. No matter what AFC dream I had, I had to realize that Nature is the correct path. If we buck her laws, it will cause us pain NOW or LATER.

    You guys keep on sounding shocked that I am saying this. But I've been saying this ALL ALONG. Look in the 'Be a Man' post. I thought SS was LIMITED then as I do now to achieve optimum happiness.

    I am NOT physically or emotionally transforming into this man, I am just APPEARING to do so until she lets me fvck her.

    And notice how I said how, for long term relationships, SS is worthless. What you've said confirms it.

    Yes, I know it is all masks. But as you spend all the time on these masks, what happens to your real self? It stagnates. One woman blurs into another. No matter how much you satisfy your lust, it will remain unsatisfied. Yet, there is insistance on spending so much time on 'seduction'.

    You might as well be chasing wind.

    Women APPEAR to be in control, but in reality, I am scultping the situation AROUND her so that I can BE in control and TAKE what I want.

    You are sculpting nothing. The woman is already sexual. In fact, sexuality itself is feminine, is the essence of the female.

    Yet, you are not even control of your own lust. How can you say that you are in control?

    First rule of SS: Three second rule. You GO. You do not wait. You GO. Within three seconds, she gets you over to her like a siren calling you to the rocks.

    To say that you're in control is nonsense. You're fully being moved by Nature's invisible hand.

    Women APPEAR to be in control, but in reality, I am scultping the situation AROUND her so that I can BE in control and TAKE what I want.

    This is exactly my point. Just because you think that it is only in HER eyes that nothing really 'changes'. Yet, you collapse your own views (expressed or however) to reflect her lust.

    Let me put it bluntly: guys who's pinnacle of the day/life is to get laid are enslaved by women. They are NOT in control since they cannot strive above the feminine nature. These guys' lives have the accomplishment of becoming a boy-toy.

    If that same 7 approaches the same 9, but instead of just presenting himself and crossing his fingers, he actually elicits her value, mirrors, uses trance words, patterns and successfully attracts, THEN the "show her it's ok to fvck" will come into play.

    EXACTLY RIGHT! SS still views HER as the prize to be won! You guys put up screenshots as 'trophies'. Yet, who is getting screwed in the end?

    But Speed Seduction is an entirely different game. It gets me more women, faster. I am into Speed Seduction because of the sport of it. Like hunting. I want to fvck women, fast. Many women. There are other guys on this board who want to do that. I want to show them how.

    EXACTLY! It is a different game because it is on the woman's turf. Beware of being drained dry.

    I was just trying to illustrate the NATURE of SS of the post in this thread. SS works. But at what cost?

    If you're using SS as a means of REST and RELAXATION for your 'warrior' like charge of life, then I have no problem.

    My concern is that many people will lose their lives to it, ceding off their potential, their talents, all to service that unquenchable thirst of lust. I'm sure you've seen many of the guys on the SS board. They literally LIVE to seduce!

    I'm not hostile to SS, I'm only hostile to that SPIRIT of SS that makes people think that getting laid is the divine pinnacle of life and, thus, they are 'successful' in life (which, in truth, they are still average chumps).

    I have a couple of friends who were eaten up by SS, well, seduction in general. Years pass by while they run around for women. Finally, they woke up and realized that they still didn't have anything of a career, their talent had withered on the vine, and didn't have an aim in life.

    Then they came and ask me for money.

    So you better bet I'm going to do whatever it takes to keep anybody from entering that fate. For success with women can be addictive and cost one more than he could ever realize.

    I'm getting the impression everyone is going, "What is Pook saying!? How can he say that? What has gotten into 'ol Pook!?"

    The disagreement comes not from SS but from how we view the nature of women. I kept from posting my thoughts on women and all (because it is bizzarre and I don't like to dwell on it). But now I will.

    ------------------
    POOK
    ------------------------
    "As you think, you shall become."

    "Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
     
  11. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    Pook, maybe YOU need to read what you were responding to. Blitz didn't say the board was inferior, he said that there was too much of a focus on getting phone numbers because they rarely pan out to a fvck.

    NOW we reached something we can agree on. If we can leave it at this I consider our recent debating settled. And I do admit I have deveoted a great deal of energy to seduction lately but isn't that to be expected with ANY new skill that one learns and one enjoys. It's only been a year since I got the memo that I was an AFC and I have now improved my skills. Shouldn't I be proud? Shouldn't I enjoy it?


    ------------------
    - The performer known as Nick
     
  12. MattB

    MattB Master Don Juan

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    bible material

    and the mirroring technique has been proven by studies that it works !

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Pook

    Pook Master Don Juan

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    Which I interpret as saying the board is inferior. I'm starting to lose my patience with a lot of this stuff. Like a new toy, you guys are enchanted with seduction.

    Or maybe my past experience with some 'ssers' are just rubbing off on you guys. No hostility intended.

    But we are all seducers and it depends on how you seduce. First, we are AFCs, Nice Guys, who agree with everything the hot chick says, give her flowers, chocolate, bad poetry, and endless attention. We bend to her every request, listen to her every word, and put up with all her bad behavior. Second, we are bitter guys who burn with hard regret from the Nice Guy stage. We turn to philosophy, to science, to answers as to what is going behind this foul process called love. Then we move into the third stage, the Jerk Stage or Revenge Stage. Woman are seen now as mere objects to collect. We backlash against kindness, only to defy and rebel every social institution. The fourth stage is the Speed Seducer who sees chicks like ducks in a row to be shot and tally up scores on a knotch. The fifth stage is the Challenge guy. Not needing to swiftly get the chick, he moves slow, slow, slow. Now we go to the sixth stage of the seducer, the guy of Fun and Craziness. He cares no more for manuals and patterns. He is a blaze of merriment, his dating focuses entirely on the thrill of the fun and nothing else. The last stage is that of the transcendent. The guy no longer has any overcoming thirst for women or for a girlfriend/wife. He realizes that Time is flying by and he must plant the remains of his youth into his talent and skill in order to have something to harvest later in his life. Women go first towards this seventh stage, then the sixth, then the fifth, and so on down to the Nice Guy. After that, all is nirvana.

    NOW we reached something we can agree on. If we can leave it at this I consider our recent debating settled. And I do admit I have deveoted a great deal of energy to seduction lately but isn't that to be expected with ANY new skill that one learns and one enjoys. It's only been a year since I got the memo that I was an AFC and I have now improved my skills. Shouldn't I be proud? Shouldn't I enjoy it?
    [/QUOTE]

    Look Nick, I've got to apologize for forgetting that you were new to it. I'm NOT new to it. I was there around when Tony's layguide first started going around the Net.

    But none of that matters. Lately, I've had too many encounters with SSers (for these guys, SS was their religion) and I had some nasty clashes with them.

    No, have fun. Just keep your dreams and ideals constant (for if you lose those, what point is there to life?)

    I'm over-posted. I'm going to take a week off and come back to finish what I started. I feel like an old man on this board. It's time for me to go.

    ------------------
    POOK
    ------------------------
    "As you think, you shall become."

    "Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
     
  14. david_med@hotmail.com

    david_med@hotmail.com Senior Don Juan

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    Pook,
    I agree with you when you say that the dangers of SS lie in the fact that guys can get consumed by it. Yeah, I completely agree.

    But aren't 99% of guys horny? What do most guys do about it? Not a goddamn thing. Most American men sit on their ass and are content watching Friends on NBC and drooling at sorry ass Rachel.

    A lot of guys want to get laid, and they want to get laid by a lot of women, and a lot of goodlooking women.

    As long as you have something going for you in life besides pursuing women 24hours a day, then I'm all for it....ie school, a job, whatever.

    Not to drag this post out, but I think people who have the desire to get laid can successfully get laid using SS techniques.

    Overall, personally I find that PUing chicks 24/7 is very addictive, but I love the hunt. It's phucking fun ass shyt. But I think all of us pvssy hunters will come to a point where we realize that after phucking so many hos, we are not left with anything. We are left with merely the experience....and we will inevitably crave the desire for a meaningful relationship. That may or may not be the case for myself in the future. I'm just speculating.

    But all in all, if you want to get friggin laid, Jim has pretty much summed it up for you...I have found tremendous success recently merely using some of the techniques mentioned.

    I love the techniques because I feel like I am getting laid because I'm doing the right thing, not because I was necessarily at the right place at the right time. In other words, I'm not getting laid haphazardly. I took action and made it happen. And that power and control is what its all about...
    that is what being a man is all about to me. You do things when you want to do them.

    one,
    -Dave
     
  15. Powertrip

    Powertrip Master Don Juan

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    Sorry guys, but I'm with Pook here. In fact, he has beautifully executed my thoughts over the past couple of months. I've been successful over the past couple of years, using one tactic or the other, but where has it lead me?

    Absolutely nowhere.

    I sincerely wish I could have that time back.. the time that I spent running around, chasing women, seducing them, making sure I got a piece of ass before the night was over. I pondered, I plotted my next move, I always put myself in the right "mood" even though the simple truth is that I would've gotten laid anyways because I am the type of guy that women are attracted to me by default- via my looks, my intelligence, my past and future accomplishments.

    It doesn't require any more effort than that. I haven't been a big admirer of SS from day one, and I'm still puzzled why it has become the standard by which all others are judged. If your goal is to simply get laid, maybe (as Pook suggests) a brothel might be a faster and cheaper way of achieving success.

    -Chris
     
  16. david_med@hotmail.com

    david_med@hotmail.com Senior Don Juan

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    Pook, you say, "I'm not hostile to SS, I'm only hostile to that SPIRIT of SS that makes people think that getting laid is the divine pinnacle of life and, thus, they are 'successful' in life (which, in truth, they are still average chumps)."

    From a biological standpoint (im a biology graduate student), a male animal's success is defined by not only how many women he can inseminate, but how many children he can bring into the world.

    Also, in almost every animal species, including humans, women are the mate selector. Because they have the responsibility of being pregnant.

    So all in all, I think its a natural male desire to want to bang as many women as possible. Also, however you go about "seducing" you are selling yourself to the woman in hopes of her accepting your sperm. Thats just how mothernature set it up. Like it or not.

    -Dave
     
  17. Powertrip

    Powertrip Master Don Juan

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    Dave, I think what Pook is saying does not exclude the nature viewpoint, but rather alludes to someone "faking" that they are a good "mate" when in fact they are nothing more than an imposter posing as the ideal candidate.

    Think of a young guerilla finding some way to dye his back silver, mating with a female, then washing it off, and you've got SS. The end result is that the female has assumed she has the protection of that silverback (because of the laws of nature) but in reality she's left off worse than before. The young male is not able to protect or care for the family "unit" and will probably run off once he crosses a real silverback in the jungle, leaving everyone to start from square one again.

    I'm not saying this situation would actually occur in nature, but I'm sure some form of it does.

    I'm just not sure if nature fooling nature is "nature". If it is, then on with the SS.

    On another note.. to everyone who champions SS, I offer another route. Simply get an interested woman on the topic of sex and relay to her that you think it is absolutely ridiculous that there is a double-standard (put in place by men, of course) regarding a woman's sex life and that you see no difference between the two. Tell her that women are much more sexual than men, and that it's a shame that they aren't ever free to truely express themselves. Then, in 6 or 7 hours, ask her what she wants for breakfast. [​IMG]

    Seriously though, I think Mr. Pook is on the right track by suggesting that we focus more on breaking down the walls than building up the castle. I've often found that my greatest successes have come from the least amount of BS, from ONS to LTR's. It is the one common factor that ties them all together.
     
  18. david_med@hotmail.com

    david_med@hotmail.com Senior Don Juan

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    I think that does occur in humans, but not necessarily in terms of physical appearance. "Players" lead women to a state of wanting a relationship or something more after the girl is phucked, and women are left with nothing in the end....so they are damaged psychologically. That can impact their future relationships and may even potentially affect the psychological stability of her future child. Her future husband is left with the burden of dealing with her issues.

    Thats just some shyt I pulled out of my ass...haha. But its food for thought.


    But I'll tell you this, SS on its own won't get a 400pound 5 foot male laid. You have to have a solid foundation to begin with. There has to be a certain sense of attraction on her part to begin with. I personally view and use it as an "icing on the cake" type of thing. I would even bet that most guys who are successful picking up girls could probably be as successful if they didn't use any of the techniques mentioned.
     
  19. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    Yes, she does already want to have sex WITH someone she is attracted to. SS is a way of attracting her to YOU specifically.

    YOU aren't focusing on her, the SEDUCTION is focused on her. Seduction always focuses on the woman. You are the prize, yes, but too have all your interactions scream "I am the prize" would be dumb. What kind of rapport develops by putting yourself at the absolute center of attention?

    Okay...phone numbers rarely pan out to a fvck. Can we agree on that? Of course we can because it is true. So what should we tell the guy in the main discussion forum who is getting too many flakey numbers and turns out to whine that he never gets laid? We tell him the truth. That getting a number without having done enough to attract her is a low-percentage play, that he needs to focus on the process of attraction rather than the process of closing. Blitz is not saying the board is inferior, he just trying to help guys get what they want.

    xblitz44x and myself have attracted women and gotten laid using SS in the recent past. Getting laid is wonderful motivation to continue the behavior that got you laid in the first place. Now I hear you, Pook, there is a danger in focusing too much on it. But if being a SSer and getting laid are behaviors that are just another step in your postulated "levels" of Don Juanism that make up this grand heirarchy you've come up with then wouldn't people getting laid mean that the forum is successful? And shouldn't you be happy about that?

    Hostility? If anything I would say I have been the more hostile one. No problem, Pook. BTW, under what name did you post on ASF? Or would you rather not say? If I guess it correctly will you tell me? [​IMG]

    No problem.

    NOW I see where all this is coming from (even though I don't know WHO you are talking about). However, I think if you don't get very much into SS for some period of time it is unlikely you will ever get good at it.

    Ill-concieved analogy. Among apes, that which makes a male attractive to females sexually also makes him a good provider. This is no longer the case in modern human society. Women are attracted to a man for primarily the lover or provider reason. One or the other, but rarely both. Chris, why not let the HB's marry some millionaire, somebody has to support our kids, right? LOL!

    What is the benefit in the mentality of letting nature take it's course in matters such as this? Only operate with the natural or evolutionary models when it is TO YOUR BENEFIT, otherwise what good are they? You think it's better for sociey or better for the natural order of things? Who gives a sh1t even if it is?

    ------------------
    - The performer known as Nick

    [This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 10-03-2002).]

    [This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 10-04-2002).]
     
  20. Master of the Universe

    Master of the Universe Senior Don Juan

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    xblitz,

    First of all, I want to congratulate you on an excellent post!

    You summed up many of the major components for an effective seduction campaign!

    I think that anyone who puts your suggestions to use will find great improvement in their results!

    As to the current debate...

    I actually find it both interesting and ironic. Interesting because of the wonderful verbal exchange and the many view points being brought up.

    Ironic because Pook's definition of "being a man" is pretty damn close to the current definition used in SS.

    Pook, please correct me if I am wrong, but when you refer to SS and SSers, I am assuming that you are referring to the ASF flavor, and the type presented in the LayGuide.

    However, not too long ago, I decided to purchase the Speed Seduction Home Study Course. As part of the course, the buyer gets membership to the official SS list being moderated by Ross Jeffries and the other "big wigs."

    The SPIRIT and MINDSET between the ASF board and the SS List was WAAAAY different.

    ASF and the LayGuide, while using SS principles and tools, imbed them in a framework (mostly Mystery's FMAC) of getting laid ASAP.

    On the other hand, on the SS List, the mindset is actually very much like yours. There are no three-second rules, there isn't even a Find (from the FMAC framework).

    In fact, just yesterday, one of the newbies on the SS list asked where is the best place to find a chick. The response to him was that you don't go out for the purpose of finding a chick. Instead you improve your life, live it to the fullest, and expand it, and when you see a girl that interests you along your life's path, then you take her.

    Actually Pook, I think you would enjoy the SS e-mail list quite a bit. The current system is not really based on patterns, but on actually qualifying a girl, setting up challenges for her, and having her prove her value to you. Once she has done that, then you reward her by using patterning language and other tools to make her experience enjoyable feelings.

    Plus, most on the SS e-mail list would agree with you that SS does not make a woman more sexual, but just removes the barriers that prevent her from being sexual. We as men created those barriers, and in turn, we as men must remove those barriers.

    With the current spirit of SS, the one that is being taught by RJ, most of what you are saying is completely in line with the teachings.

    By the way, I have no problem with the ASF spirit of SS or the pure SS spirit. I might use the ASF style if my intention is recreation, or the fun, but I believe that the ideology of being a Man professed on this board and that on the SS e-mail list is the one most pleasing long-term.

    But that's my $0.02

    Master of the Universe

    ------------------
    [After an accident at sea, Don Juan finds himself washed up on a beach, where he is discovered by a young woman.]
    Tisbea: Wake up, handsomest of all men, and be yourself again.
    Don Juan: If the sea gives me death, you give me life. But the sea really saved me only to be killed by you. Oh the sea tosses me from one torment to the other, for I no sooner pulled myself from the water than I met this siren - yourself. Why fill my ears with wax, since you kill me with your eyes? I was dying in the sea, but from today I shall die of love.
    Tisbea: You have abundant breath for a man almost drowned. You suffered much, but who knows what suffering you are preparing for me?... I found you at my feet all water, and now you are all fire. If you burn when you are so wet, what will you do when you're dry again? You promise a scorching flame; I hope to God you're not lying.
    Don Juan: Dear girl, God should have drowned me before I could be charred by you. Perhaps love was wise to drench me before I felt your scalding touch. But your fire is such that even in water I burn.
    Tisbea: So cold and yet burning?
    Don Juan: So much fire is in you.
    Tisbea: How well you talk!
    Don Juan: How well you understand!
    Tisbea: I hope to God you're not lying.
    - Tirso De Molina, The Playboy of Seville
     

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