Reporting back from behind enemy lines...

[New2Town]

Gentlemen, I come to you with a query.

How do you handle women with a strong personality?

I recently began dating this 25-year-old chick I met off Match.com and from the beginning I could tell it was going to be a tough shell to crack. She wouldn't give out her number since she said there are far too many psychos who do online dating, so I played into that by saying I have always wanted to be abducted and taped to a bed.

I got her messenger screenname and talked to her on there for a few minutes and then just plowed for the number. She eventually gave it to me and after a few days, we arranged to meet up for a date.

We went bowling and for dinner and we ended up back in my apartment, just the two of us. I went in for the kiss, obviously, got something, but she was like "YOU DON'T KNOW ME." Which I have to agree, I didn't really know her yet.

We went out a second time and I further established kino and last night, I went over to her place for drinks and a movie and got a full kiss with her (this has been three dates in).

We went outside to talk for a bit and then it came out. She said she's scared away tons of guys because of her strong personality and eventually called me out for having my "moves" be too rigid and not fluid enough.

I told her that is simply because I can't get a read on her since we didn't have much time to talk before (not getting the number early, not establishing rapport, etc). She said that is a folly of hers, but continues to tell me about her past.

Turns out she wants a relationship, or PDA for that matter to be 70/30. 70 percent her/30 percent him. I told her flat out that that's not the way it works around me, I make a move when I want to make a move.

Near the end of the night, after she brushed her teeth and stuff, she said are you staying her or going home. I told her, "If I am staying on this couch, I have my own bed waiting for me, so I would leave if that's the case." She wavered for a bit saying I was playing mind games, but then I flat out told her that I was driving home and everything.

There was no way I am going to sleep on a couch in a woman's apartment. It's either her bed or I'll drive home to sleep in mine.

On the drive home, I really began to think that this chick has taken hold of the frame in this relationship and I am trying to pull it back.

How would you pull it back from a woman with a strong personality? Do any of you soldiers have any tips on how to advance deeper into enemy lines?

Thank you in advance for your help. March on!

 

[thedeparted]

Um, how would you convert a Nazi into a Jew?

Unless you are a masochist looking for a domme, after three dates and no sex it's time to move on.

^^ maybe I can be the Johnny Cochran of luvve

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Officer NEW2TOWN,


I don't have much time, otherwise I would give you even MORE detailed and lengthy intel. But, I WILL say this:

This RIGHT HERE was the strongest move you made during your skirmishes with this chick:

I told her flat out that that's not the way it works around me, I make a move when I want to make a move.

Congratulations on your ability to assess the situation correctly, soldier. Not many men are able to stay objective enough while they are IN the situation to see it clearly. You are correct----this chick IS/HAS taken control of the mindframe. In HER estimation, YOU are qualifying to be with HER.

We have to flip that shyt around (if possible). Recognize that what you are dealing with here is a woman who is exhibiting signs that she is inflexible and set in her ways. She wants YOU to think of HER as the prize----and YOU are not. This woman doesn't even seem to be willing to meet you on the middleground of you BOTH being mutually the prize.

And because of all this, and because of all that has happened so far, I would suggest ONE strategy----a Hail Mary----a last ditch effort, as it were. Although it's pretty much a given that this woman has either a LOW, or at best MODERATE interest in you (based on her actions, and how careless she seems to be about turning you OFF), I would suggest that you set a trap for her:

Invite her over to your place for a DVD, popcorn, and relaxation evening. If she accepts, once she gets there, at some point during the evening, make a strong move on her (but I'm NOT talking about taking a rape charge here, son. lol).

And if she accepts your advances and you get what you're after, then cool. But if she refuses, that's when YOU pull away, and give her YOUR disqualifying speech of DISAPPROVAL. Tell HER what YOU expect from a woman in terms of attention, respect, interest level, relationships, or whatever. Then tell her that since she doesn't seem to be on the same page as YOU, then "you" can't see "HER" anymore.

What this move will accomplish is either to get you some "cookie", OR get you some "closure".

Either way, YOU win the war, soldier!



Godspeed...and March On.


VU

 

[New2Town]

I can see what you are saying. If I had an opportunity to fully develop a rapport with her before, such as on the phone or in an e-mail, it would have not been a problem by now. I am getting sex from another girl, so it's not like I can't get it when I need it. This chick seems like a great lay, so I at least want to get to that point. My question isn't how to bang her. It's how to redirect the frame and counter-game the strong personality type.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

My question isn't how to bang her. It's how to redirect the frame and counter-game the strong personality type

NEW2TOWN,

It's my opinion that you can go very far in accomplishing BOTH these goals by implementing the plan I suggested. What making a strong move will do is put HER on the defensive. It will make HER have to explain HERSELF (as far as why SHE is behaving the way she does towards YOU).

This is a way to assume the dominant, more masculine position. There is no law that says you have to make a move like this desperately, but rather, make this move with confident assurance----like it's COMMON for you to be at this level of intimacy with a woman by now-----in YOUR world.

Do you see what I mean?

Sometimes it's possible for a man to get what he REALLY wants by going for MORE than he really wants? Do you get what I'm saying?

By going for the "cookie", you MIGHT just be able to get her to soften up, and open up more to you on an emotional/mental level instead------which I assume is what your more immediate objective is, correct?


The whole gambit is about taking back the dominant frame, and thereby, possibly being able to steer interactions with this girl to at LEAST a more level playing field. And also, as you go about this, you may want to ask yourself is she WORTH the trouble?

It has been my experience that MOST women that I have encountered who "played" hard to get, ULTIMATELY turned out to instead be-----HARD TO "WANT".

But each woman is different, so I just suggest to you do not fall into the trap of believing HER hype. Just because SHE comes across like she MIGHT be a good girl/good lay or whatever-----don't believe it as the Gospel Truth until she PROVES it to you.

In other words, treat ALL women like you would if YOU had the attitude of people in the state of Missouri...the "SHOW ME state". Don't let yourself be TOO impressed by their "PR" campaigns, instead, don't take anything to heart that they say until they SHOW YOU.

 

[New2Town]

VU,

I like your newsletter and I wish to subscribe.

I know what you mean about making one last "Hail Mary" attempt. I wouldn't have to make this last-ditch effort if I had connected with her a lot earlier. It's usually pretty clockwork for me with online dating, at least off Match.com.

When she told me it was 70/30, I really had to take a step back and call her on it. I proceeded to tell her I make moves, when I want to make moves and it's up to her to accept them or not. I continued to tell her sexual chemistry is extremely important to me and you need to know early in a relationship if it's there or not. She agreed. Usually I get this out of the way earlier, so by the time we are together, she has already thought of me sexually.

When she went to the bathroom and I was still on the porch, I thought about jumping over the rail (first floor) and driving home right then. I went as far as grabbing my shoes, but didn't know what kind of impression that would leave.

Near the end of the night, she really warmed up to me and we shared a great kiss before I left. Before I pulled away, I told her, "Careful, you might actually like it."

Next time, I am going to drop back like Kordell Stewart and launch a pass deep into enemy territory. My hope is that Michael Westbrook is there to catch it.

If it goes for naught, then I am going to chalk this one up to extenuating circumstances and march deeper into other countries. My gun is on my shoulder and my rucksack is packed.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

...:crackup:


It's all good (as they used to say BACK IN THE NINETIES). Don't beat yourself up at all over feeling like you didn't establish a rapport with this woman at the beginning.

Remember, it's not like you are new to this stuff, my man. And because you ARE a "veteran". you do realize that establishing a rapport is ALWAYS a two-way communication. You have to have at least a somewhat willing participant in an interaction in order to bond on ANY level in the first place.

I'm thinking that this woman has so many "shields" up that she is used to keeping guys "at bay" almost on automatic pilot. This is why YOU have to decide is she worth the trouble or not.

It seems like you have enough other viable options whereas you won't develop an unhealthy obsession with this "tough nut to crack" chick, though. Your other options affords you the abillity to "wait her out" and see if there really is anything worth pursuing with this chick.

So that's good.

If you think you can build a rapport with this woman at a slower than usual pace, I would say GO FOR IT. Just always remember to make physical/romantic advances towards her EACH time-----because SO MANY women "love" to get it confused. They "love" to assume that all you wanted to be was a "friend" to them from the start. :crackup:

But so far, from what you reported back to us, that's THE LAST thing this woman is thinking. And that's good. It's possible that your cool, calm, confident persistence may win her over in the end. But always remember to keep exploring you OTHER options as well.

Hell, the best thing that could happen to you is that by the time THIS chick warms all the way up-----"YOU" may have lost interest in "her" because you have been presented with an EVEN BETTER female target.

So keep you eyes open and your finger on the trigger, my friend.

The only thing better than a potentially good woman is a potentially good woman who OVERTLY demonstrates by her behavior that she also sees the good potential in YOU! :rockon:


VU

 

[New2Town]

Tonight I went to an MMA fight for my job and brought along one of my friends. Near the middle of the card, I got a text from Ms. Strong Personality.

She said "Hey, " and I was thinking about not responding at all, but I just replied, "Hey, how's it going." To which she replied, "Not much. What are you up to tonight ".

I know this seems like whatever, but after that last one, I called her on her wink use and she said I wondered how long it would take you to notice that and I left it at I was going out with my friend after the fight to the bars.

I didn't get another response from her and I wanted to show her I have a life outside of whatever I do. She always understood that, I believe.

I also see it good that she would contact me out of the blue and be thinking of me. Parts of me is thinking she is cracking.

 

[Jeffst1980]

You played that well. Right now, you should be placing this girl rather low on your priority list--she hasn't earned your affection. Girl LOVES doing the last minute "what r u up to?" text as a test to see if you'd drop everything to hang out with them. See her on YOUR terms, not hers.

When a girl starts rattling off her terms and conditions of a relationship, I find that it's usually not worth the trouble of dating her. The fact that she set these so-called "rules" in the first place means that she's the type that will misbehave in order to try to "win" back the power in the relationship. She sounds like she's going to continue "scaring off guys" for at least another 3 years or so.

 

[MacAvoy]

Near the end of the night, after she brushed her teeth and stuff, she said are you staying her or going home. I told her, "If I am staying on this couch, I have my own bed waiting for me, so I would leave if that's the case."

Why would you assume that you were staying on the couch? I would never assume such a thing. To me, that is an invitation to sleep with her. I would have accepted the invitation. Depending on how rigid she was, I might not have escalated to full blown sex but I would have used the opportunity to build more sexual rapport with her.

ps. don't believe I'm such a nice guy, I would try to escalate and bang her, although I might do it more subtely than normal given the situation which you've described.

pss If I was tried to put on the couch, I would have left and nexted her as its sign of a looney women who's off her rocker. This ain't 1950 anymore.

edit: other than the above, I think you handled the situation and recovered quite nicely. You seem to be on the right track and I think you got the right mentality to handle this women.

 

[New2Town]

Why would you assume that you were staying on the couch? I would never assume such a thing. To me, that is an invitation to sleep with her. I would have accepted the invitation. Depending on how rigid she was, I might not have escalated to full blown sex but I would have used the opportunity to build more sexual rapport with her.

ps. don't believe I'm such a nice guy, I would try to escalate and bang her, although I might do it more subtely than normal given the situation which you've described.

pss If I was tried to put on the couch, I would have left and nexted her as its sign of a looney women who's off her rocker. This ain't 1950 anymore.

edit: other than the above, I think you handled the situation and recovered quite nicely. You seem to be on the right track and I think you got the right mentality to handle this women.

I got a pretty good strong feeling that I would be staying on the couch from the whole night. We didn't have the sexual rapport with each other to the point that I could safely say, she wanted me to stay in her bed with her.

I asked her what she meant with me staying over. That's when I put it as, if i am staying on the couch, I am going home. She looked at me and didn't say anything.

Maybe she was tired, maybe she was trying to imply something, but I didn't catch onto it. Plus, until that moment, I don't think all the cards were on the table to sleep in the same bed as her and escalate the sexual tension.

If I had kissed her more and advanced my hands north or south of the border, then I would have a better "feel" for the situation, but I didn't.

Before I left that night, we shared a pretty good kiss, like I stated above.

Next time, it's double or nothing.

 

[thedeparted]

Got to agree with Mac here. Never reject yourself. Just brush your teeth and get in bed with her. Whatever she says is an Anti-Slut Defense and means nothing. If you are in the bedroom together it's understood sex is on the menu. She would not let herself be there otherwise. But she cannot admit that much -- the action must come from you.

Example, I had a date that ended, she was at my place, and it was too late for her to drive home. So, she didn't have to do anything to accidentally have to stay the night. Just how it makes her comfortable.

So I tell her she can drive back in the morning, and she says, "I'm only sleeping over if we keep all our clothes on." Or something like that.

I say, "Of course... I don't want you to get my sheets dirty, I just changed them." Or whatever. Then I get her some clothes to put on so she can get into bed with me and then let me take them off.

The key is that she doesn't want to feel like a slut, and she doesn't want to be responsible for what happens. It "just happened." Your girl said stay or go so that it would be your "fault" when sex happened. She maintains plausible deniability.

I would even go so far as to think that since you left, she felt rejected, and this is making things more difficult now. She has to wonder why you didn't want to stay and try to score.

 

[New2Town]

I wasn't in her bedroom watching the movie. We were in her den and were sitting on the couch. We went outside to talk and then back inside to the couch to finish talking. I never was in her bedroom, or on her bed, because in that case, I would have made a more-involved move. All of the action in this "play" happened in the den or on the porch. I was nowhere near her bedroom.

Hopefully that clears a few things up.

 

[Jitterbug]

A couch is more than good enough. I often start it in the car, and by the time we get to the couch, we're already half naked. You don't have to get to the bedroom before you can bang her, you know.

 

[New2Town]

A couch is more than good enough. I often start it in the car, and by the time we get to the couch, we're already half naked. You don't have to get to the bedroom before you can bang her, you know.

I completely agree with you.

The only problem is I never had a chance to progress through the motions. I'm not about to rape her.

 

[Jitterbug]

Weren't you two having dinner together and watching a movie afterwards? Plenty of chances to touch each other and escalate from there. What were your hands doing during the make out session? Scratching your bum? Gotta create your own chances, mate. She isn't gonna hold your hands and place them where she likes it.

 

[New2Town]

Weren't you two having dinner together and watching a movie afterwards? Plenty of chances to touch each other and escalate from there. What were your hands doing during the make out session? Scratching your bum? Gotta create your own chances, mate. She isn't gonna hold your hands and place them where she likes it.

Of course, I know that man. If you read anything else in my post, you will see that I couldn't get a good read on her.

Our "make-out sessions" were nothing more than a few deep kisses and that was it. I didn't want to push longer because I couldn't get a feel for the situation off this woman. It's rare that it happens, but I couldn't get a feel for her.

My hands were around her head, pulling her hair gently. I felt they were comfortable there and didn't want to be forced away if I felt the urge to move forward. Next time though, it'll be different.

 

[armadon]

always push forward till she says stop. If you don't really know what the feeling is go from kissing to kissing her ear and work your way down. always go lips, ear, neck, collarbone, then shirt off. it works every time. Also have a slight grip on her lower back nudging her toward you it will loosen her up.

 

[New2Town]

always push forward till she says stop. If you don't really know what the feeling is go from kissing to kissing her ear and work your way down. always go lips, ear, neck, collarbone, then shirt off. it works every time. Also have a slight grip on her lower back nudging her toward you it will loosen her up.

I KNOW what the feeling is and how to advance to sex. I don't need any tips there.

I need tips on how to deal with a woman with a strong personality. Somehow this went from how I needed tips with that to tips on actually how to fool around, like I am a virgin.

I didn't know what she was feeling and she said stop while I kissing her. So I wasn't going to go further.

 

[Jitterbug]

I need tips on how to deal with a woman with a strong personality.

Might be just me, but I don't get the impression that she has a strong personality through your description. She sounds like a chick who isn't too eager to jump your bone and gotta be warmed up a little more. That's pretty common. A little difficult to bed, but that's got nothing much to do with a strong personality or character. Maybe you're making this woman out to be more special than she really is. I think you could use some of our objectiveness (since we aren't as affected by her supposedly strong personality as you are). What if you were one of us, sitting in front of a monitor, giving advices to yourself through SoSuave? What would you tell yourself to do?