Regarding last name (marriage)

[godofanxiety]

wtf, I couldn't care less about what name she chooses to take. It's not like it's any reliable sign of her character. If I were a woman and I liked my last name I'd have kept it. I don't like people who are slaves to tradition or have fragile egos, regardless of gender.

 

[Atom Smasher]

She can hem and haw all she wants. My word is final, and when I get to a point where the discussion is over, that's it. No more discussion, no more talking about it. My way or the highway.

A marriage is like a ship. The woman is the XO, second in command, a very valuable member of the team. But the man is the captain, and in the end what he says goes.

Perfectly stated.

A women going into marriage who refuses to take your last name is publically declaring co-captianship of the vessel. We must always remember that women were not built to lead, but to be led.

This in no way diminishes the worth of a woman. To the contrary, it allows her freedom to live to her fullest potential because she is doing what she was built to do, namely to be led and to nurture.

Every time I see a check from a family that has the wife's name first, or hyphenated, or both, I can't help but think what a wuss-bag the husband is.

 

[AmIAFC]

I'd be a little concerned if my wife elects to keep her name, especially if that name came from her father, which would suggest that she fails to perceive me as the ultimate male figure in the family, deferring some male authority or influence to her father in a way. Regardless, if she makes a big stink out of it, I'd let her keep it, but the issue surrounding the names of our children - first or last - wouldn't even be up for debate.

 

[samspade]

Interesting answers. (Although I think some people forgot it's hypothetical - and that's why it's such a far-fetched possibility. In the real world you would probably suss out these problems well in advance. I hope anyway.)

I think the key is this:

But you want her to take YOUR name.

Because if it's important to you, and it's part of your personal code, then breaking that does set a precedent as some have said. I don't know whether her wanting to keep her name is a sign of things to come, BUT if you acquiesce on something clearly important to you (there would probably be lengthy discussions about it), then you are indeed showing a willingness to cede a part of your manhood to her. Personally I don't think one is being rigid in this case; it's part and parcel with the philosophy that a woman should want to be your co-pilot, not the other way around. YOU are the pilot. There will be other decisions later on during which you can comfortably compromise.

I'm sure a lot of women/feminists say "WTF? It's just a name. Why is it such a big deal?" Well, if it's no big deal, then take the man's name.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Professionally, when I deal with women who have a hyphenated last name or simply refuse to change their name to that of their husband, it tells me all I need to know about that woman, what to expect from her and how best to minimalize the sh!t she'll invariably bring to any working arrangement.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Professionally, when I deal with women who have a hyphenated last name or simply refuse to change their name to that of their husband, it tells me all I need to know about that woman, what to expect from her and how best to minimalize the sh!t she'll invariably bring to any working arrangement.

This is absolutely true. As a man gains maturity and experience he learns what those indicators mean in the broader sense and becomes aware of how universally women stick to the script.

 

[Atom Smasher]

This is another shaming mechanism.

It is not about fragile egos or tradition. It is a clue into the mindset of the woman you are marrying.

If a woman will not take your last name, chances are great that she will take the role of "competer" instead of a "supporter" in your marriage. Is that really what you want to be tied to for the rest of your life? Is that really the character you want to risk a 50% divorce with, especially considering the family courts of today?

If you are going to make an argument, perhaps you should consider the consquences of a bad decision as your driving factor, instead of insults and shaming attempts such as "fragile ego".

I enthisiastically ensorse this response. This is a female shaming tactic and goes to show how deeply the feminized educational system affects many males.

 

[Colossus]

Personally I don't think one is being rigid in this case; it's part and parcel with the philosophy that a woman should want to be your co-pilot, not the other way around. YOU are the pilot. There will be other decisions later on during which you can comfortably compromise.

I'd be interested to know how many men tell their wives explicitly that they are the pilot.

I know that answer is that it's better demonstrated than told, but I think even 'submissive' women wouldnt like being told they are #2 in command.


But back to the name thing, it's totally individual. I'm with the group that sees it as a matter of respect. Possible exceptions might be if she was an established professional (MD, DMD, DVM, etc), or you had the same last name as her first name; i.e. "Kelly Kelly".

My dad's wife kept her surname because she is a DVM and a professor---it would be a literal legal nightmare to change it. In that case I personally would make an exception....as long as I knew she would be willing to do it otherwise. Just playing devil's advocate a bit---overall I think it should be a non-negotiable item.

 

[zekko]

This is a female shaming tactic and goes to show how deeply the feminized educational system affects many males.

While I disagree with our friend "godofanxiety", I think that's a little harsh. The community is quick to dismiss traditions that favor the female, like getting down on one knee to propose, buying engagement rings, etc. Few people cry about "social conventions" or "social conditioning" more than PUAs. To them, that's supposed to be all part of the "matrix".

So again, while I disagree with "godofanxiety", I respect his opinion.

 

[Atom Smasher]

When a man calls his peers "slaves of tradition" who have "fragile egos" because of their assessment that women who refuse to take their husband's name are making a public statement, I'll call him out as someone who is affected by feminist education. It is precisely what I said it is, a shaming tactic.

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

all you all b1tches need to stfu and listen to rollo, atom, danger, and collosus. they didnt get all that green sh1t after there name cuz theyre dumb

 

[Down Low]

When a woman opens her own car door before you can get over to that side, she's telling all the nearby men "I'm not with him."

When a woman whips out money to pay a restaurant tab, she's telling all the nearby men "I'm not with him."

How many of these insults must you endure before you realize that she's not with you?

__________________

I am not her man. She can't stand the thought of me touching her. She's dripping with other men's semen. She is ashamed to be seen with me. She never misses an opportunity to disrespect me. Everything I do is wrong. I am the problem. She got what she wanted from me. She says "I hate you so much I could kill you." Going away forever will make her happy again. So I'm leaving her to her pumped-and-dumped lifestyle and leaving her bastard child fatherless. I'd be better off with no woman at all than wasting another second thinking about her. I learned from my mistakes and the next relationship will be done with planning for my happiness.

 

[Nutz]

in the last 5 years I'm counting 22 friends who were married...in 19 of those cases the wife did the hyphenate or refused to take the husbands name...I wonder if the wives stopped giving BJs as well

Why would any man want a woman who doesn't get turned on and wet by submitting to him in every way that counts...then again I suppose such a statement would be seen as 'sexist' by the legions of white knights (all the while she's banging the local powerlifter at the nearby gym)

Indeed. Come to think of it, Dalrock wrote something about this the other day, namely women need to get back to old school values if marriage as an institution is ever going to survive. It all centers around point #3, that women should be looking for men who are leaders they can submit to. Althol Kay sorta touched on this as well with the Captain/First Officer model for marriage. The husband is the captain of the ship and the wife is the first officer:

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/how-young-should-a-woman-marry-part-1/

http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2011/12/learning-captain-and-first-officer/

http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/20...marriage-the-captain-and-first-officer-model/

 

[AW1983]

When a woman opens her own car door before you can get over to that side, she's telling all the nearby men "I'm not with him."

When a woman whips out money to pay a restaurant tab, she's telling all the nearby men "I'm not with him."

How many of these insults must you endure before you realize that she's not with you?

Wow, sorry man but I could not disagree more. I do not open car doors for girls and I certainly don't pay their way, especially early on in a relationship. And the girls I've messed around with the last few years had eyes for no one else. And if I posted pics of them you guys would crap your pants haha.

 

[AlNess]

My wife's last time is hyphenated (we've been married almost a year and a half).

Once married, I gave her my reasons for why it's important to me that she not hyphenate, but she said she'd feel like she's losing part of herself. I've since realized it's not that big a deal to me. It's not as if she refused to take my name at all. Here's also why her hyphenating doesn't bug me:

Her mom is the world's most humongous man hater....and I mean that in the most serious way possible. The woman has SEVERE unresolved daddy/abandonment issues, not to mention MAJOR trauma from men who have cheated on her (a couple were even violent; she's generally hooked up with losers...seemingly a desperate attempt to find anyone to fill the void her philandering/often absent dad left wide open). If you could only hear her occasional passive-aggressive tirades. It's no surprise that her sister (who's in her mid-60s) is the exact same way; mega-feminist man hater (and a lesbian, but that's beside the point). Despite all this, my wife's mom took AND kept the last name of her ex-husband (whom she hasn't seen in about 35-36 years).
So if someone with at least 5 decades full of unresolved issues with and hatred for men doesn't rid herself of her ex's last name (her ex also cheated on her and roughed her up a few times from what I was told), then my wife -- who never knew her dad, doesn't have man issues (despite being raised by a feminist man hater), and is more level-headed about gender dynamics -- hyphenating her last name is not at all strange or a big deal. Given that my wife is the polar opposite of her mom in just about every way (for which I'm GLAD), I'm totally fine with her approaching the last name issue differently as well (as long as she doesn't refuse to take my name at all). The more my wife is NOT like her mom, the better.

 

[Down Low]

Wow, sorry man but I could not disagree more. I do not open car doors for girls and I certainly don't pay their way, especially early on in a relationship. And the girls I've messed around with the last few years had eyes for no one else. And if I posted pics of them you guys would crap your pants haha.

Yes, of course. You'd never open a car door for a woman. You go out with "girls." And of course, they don't stick around long. Wonder if there's any correlation? Naaaah!

__________________

I am not her man. She can't stand the thought of me touching her. She's dripping with other men's semen. She is ashamed to be seen with me. She never misses an opportunity to disrespect me. Everything I do is wrong. I am the problem. She got what she wanted from me. She says "I hate you so much I could kill you." Going away forever will make her happy again. So I'm leaving her to her pumped-and-dumped lifestyle and leaving her bastard child fatherless. I'd be better off with no woman at all than wasting another second thinking about her. I learned from my mistakes and the next relationship will be done with planning for my happiness.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

The only girl I will ever open a door for is my mom. That's it. If a girl can't open her own car door then she doesn't need to be in the car anyway. It isn't 1950 no more. It's 2012.

I remember this 30 year old I used to date asked me to open the car door for her. I looked at her from the driver side and told her to "get her as.s in the car." She sure did listen .

Same thing with doors. I'll open it up for myself and give it a little bump for you but don't expect me to open it and let you come in. To me stuff like this gives the impression that I'm "working" for the pu$$y. I am not working for $hit, however. The reason I am with a girl is because I want to see what she can offer me!

 

[Down Low]

The reasoning behind almost every custom is essentially practical.

Women sometimes wear skirts, dresses, and coats that get caught in coach doors. To protect the fabric and the cost that went into buying the garment, men make sure that the women are seated with all objects free of the jamb. Same goes for the seat belt or other items that women often leave dangling. You wouldn't want to get out to your car and find the battery dead because the door was ajar and the dome light was on, would you?

Women are often on the period, premenstrual, pregnant, postpartum, menopausal, in hormonal disarray, or carrying children, which makes them more prone to be dizzy and weak when getting up and down. Women are easily distracted by their own emotions, and don't close doors properly before getting under way -- which is dangerous for her. You protect the pvssy that you enjoy fvcking just as you protect the uterus that carries your son and the breasts that feed your son.

Besides, just as I said, if she opens her own door, the lawn mower, the tree trimmer, the neighbor, the azzhole blaring his stereo in the parking lot, the homeless guy who just stole some of your nice clothes from the dryer -- they all get the clear message that she wants them to come and get her the minute they see your azz leave.

Be practical about it. Stop thinking in the male-female warfare mindset that feminists got your brain screwed into -- or in the false dilemma of sissyboy v. thug which is nothing but feminism rewritten in words that are supposed to be appealing to the claymation model of (eww! breeders!) that feminists despise.

__________________

I am not her man. She can't stand the thought of me touching her. She's dripping with other men's semen. She is ashamed to be seen with me. She never misses an opportunity to disrespect me. Everything I do is wrong. I am the problem. She got what she wanted from me. She says "I hate you so much I could kill you." Going away forever will make her happy again. So I'm leaving her to her pumped-and-dumped lifestyle and leaving her bastard child fatherless. I'd be better off with no woman at all than wasting another second thinking about her. I learned from my mistakes and the next relationship will be done with planning for my happiness.

 

[zekko]

Be practical about it. Stop thinking in the male-female warfare mindset that feminists got your brain screwed into -- or in the false dilemma of sissyboy v. thug which is nothing but feminism rewritten in words that are supposed to be appealing to the claymation model of (eww! breeders!) that feminists despise.

I haven't done the car door thing since I was a young lad, it just seems like a silly contrivance to me. I'll open doors for anybody though if the situation calls for it (if someone is following closely behind, or is packed down carrying a lot of stuff). Nothing wrong with being polite (despite what some may tell you here).

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter so much what you do, as why you do it. Obviously you shouldn't be holding doors to "work for the pvssy" or to supplicate. On the other hand, I'm not sure that not holding doors because "I don't care about anybody but myself" sends the best message either (despite what some may say here about sociopaths).

 

[FairShake]

For many girls (but not all) NOT paying for more than your share of meals and NOT holding the door or walking between the street and sidewalk is a surefire trip to the friendzone.