The Logical Player said:
edit: already posted in MM forum
as for the replies here, you guys can be nice guys who follow what society tells you and have your 1 girlfriend at a time, but just remember that there is no point in being committed because thats not how you come up in the game in the 21st century, and i guess posting PROOF in the threads people make about their girlfriend is still not enough to un-p&ssify you
Okay, let's put some nuance in place.
Logical, I don't know how long you've been around this forum from before you were posting, nor do I know which forum you frequented. I've been here for two years now and at no time have I been under the impression that anyone here promotes "getting a girlfriend" as the highest goal.
If anything, during my time here, due to the people posting, I went from believing one should seek fulfilment with one girl (The One), to dating / seeing / sleeping with plenty of them, all at the same time. I'm having fun, a hell of a lot of fun and I'm in no hurry to get tied down by one of them, when I can have
all of them.
However, I'm open to a serious relationship, but I've not seen a woman yet who meets my standards and needs. They've always have been pretty steep, but even moreso since I came to this place. And so long as no single woman meets them, I suppose I'll be hanging with a lot of them. Gladly.
Maybe you've been reading the Discussion forum too much. Yeah, that board is home to a lot of desperate, needy, clueless guys, who still believe girlfriends and relationships are the blissful happiness that the general society makes them up to be. You're right: those guys need help. On the Mature Man forum, you'll find no such chumpish claims for relationships. What you do find is the desire for a healthy relationship with a healthy woman. That simply is what a lot of people want.
It's admirable that you made it your goal to help those desperate, clueless guys. It's just that you're not helping them by making claims like
"don't get a girlfriend EVER". If you were to say,
"don't get a girlfriend until you've Manned Up and know how to deal with one", that'd be different. That's what the veterans here tell every new chump dumping his desperate load in here. I was once one of those chumps. That's what SoSouave is all about: chumps getting re-educated by chumps-become-Men.
You are right to promote holding out on the exclusivity with a girl as long as possible. Or even never getting to that stage perhaps, if you have no urges to settle down or just love the ladies. However, you are presenting your case as if women are evil, and that you should use all of them for your own benefit.
The ho's, gold-diggers and other crackpot low-life's, sure. You can use them. If that's your thing. There's however nothing wrong with getting exclusive with a quality woman who has proven herself to be a positive addition to your life. It is possible to have a fulfilling relationship with such a person. As long as you don't slide into AFCness inside that relationship.
Sure, even the quality woman may dump you when you do turn AFC on her. But is that strange? Would you stick around with a girl who acts needy and depedent on you all of a sudden and doesn't realize this and won't change?
I knew a girl once. She had this friendship with this guy who was in love with her from day one, but she wasn't that into him. Eventually she did develop feelings. But her life was also a mess and she became more and more dependent on the guy. For a while, the guy thought he could "help" her, be there for her. But she just didn't want to see how messed up she was. He ended up dumping her, despite the feelings he still had, because their relationship became unworkable for him. Constant arguments, things couldn't be talked about etcetera. When he dumped her, she got nasty on him. Which prompted him to never wanting to see her again.
The point is: men are chumps, women are chumps. We must learn not to be chumps and then it is possible to be in healthy relationships. It is okay to want such a thing. But not until you're mentally "healthy". Both sexes. Until then, yeah, you're absolutely right in saying
"don't get a girlfriend". It should not be one's goal to get one either. And since women don't have sites like SoSuave to un-chump them, it's a Man's though job to weed out the extremely-bad female chumps and to deal with the only-slightly female chumps in a way that's healthy to these Men.
But aside from that it's the hope of even Men here that someday they'll meet a female who's not a chump and who "gets" it like he gets it. And that's okay. Many Men on the other hand prefer to have many women available to them. Myself included. And that's okay too. We teach that to people here. Only, not in clear words.
Most education on SoSuave comes in the form of many threads and it's a lot of work to work through everything, let alone weed through all the crap that's here too. Then you have to digest it, integrate it into your life. And yeah, this site gets a lot of people who expect instant change in their lives when they've read some advice here and there. That isn't going to happen. Change takes time. Especially personal change, growth and development. It took a year with me, before I even started posting here after I had found this place. But most guys can't even wait a month to change their ways.
So, the way it works is that the guys who take their time, are the guys who end up "getting it" and leaving this site as better people (or stick around to pass the wisdom). As Men, instead of chumps. The hopeless cases stick around, reading and reading, typing and typing, becoming keyboard jockeys with assimilated tricks and knowledge and no real tried and tested skills and experience. That, or hopelessly posting with question after question about
"how do i deal with this girl i like".
The veterans here know this. The veterans here once got angry too at the spineless losers not getting it. But since, they have learned that fortune favours the patient. So they simply no longer try when not being listenend to. You're still young here, you're going through these cycles perhaps.
Anyway, most guys don't really disagree with you, but your view is just a little extreme and you want to speed-educate people. You also want to imprint what you feel is right onto others. All that is ineffective. That's why I said to you to lead by example. There's this Confucian saying that I just made up:
"if donkey don't listen to master, simply move trough to where donkey must go". You want to stuff the carrot down the throats of chumps, when you'd best dangle it in front of them. You tell people what to do and expect them to listen. People don't work that way. They need to realize the truth of your words by experiencing the benefit. And only they can do that most important bit.
As for your proof, it's not merely proof that you'd better not get a girlfriend. It's proof that many guys are needy wrecks who need to learn how to be a Man. It's also proof that a lot of women are low-class. Therefore it's also proof that a Man must be very cautious and selective in picking a quality woman. That's what all those threads you linked tell us too. And so, yes, it's better not to commit to anyone and sample all the apples on the tree, as you're learning the ropes of Manhood.
Lastly, too bad you deleted the OP. Since you got it up anyway, you might as well have left it up. I hope you won't abandon this board because you get a lot of apparent disagreement. If you could be a little more nuanced in your view and keep that voracity in your postings, you'd be a hell of an addition to this place, which indeed desperately needs people to help the needy guys see the light, as you correctly assessed when you came here.
EDIT:
Ah, you ninja-ed me with that last post. It finally showed some much-needed nuance. Indeed, that's what people here have been trying to tell you too: while you Man Up, it's better not to commit. What you apparently also say, but it wasn't clear to anyone before. And to think I spent a good amount of time on this post. All for not in the end. Yegh.
See? We agree. There is no argument. Better weigh your words more carefully next time and they won't meet with outrage you never intended to stirr up.
