raised by a single mother

al77

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Originally posted by Wyldfire

Most single mothers DO, however, look to the natural father of said child/children to be a responsible and helpful parent. There is a HUGE difference between looking to the man who helped make a child to help care for it
It is always the case: single mother always claim alimony.
But other than that it just doesn't pass any kind of logic.

She broke up with a guy because of what? Because for some reasons she didn't like him. Did not like, if not hated.
Does she want her child to be raised by somebody who she doesn't like let alone hate? No! Does she realize that her child needs a father anyway, a new father most likely since the old one was not good enough? Yes.

Why would she look to the natural father of a child to be a helpful parent? Anything besides money?

I think what you said illustrate some very typical "female logic": when a women do not follow any kind of common sense: it is not beneficial for her, not beneficial for a child. It is just "how she feels" :(
 

Heretolearn

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single mother

- the single mothers I know generally put their kids above ALL ELSE

Logically, kids are better off with a good father figure in their life, hence the subconscious attraction.......

= certain type of relationship

Of course every single mother is different but I have enough trouble dealing with my own life, let alone another woman.

You do not date a single mother, you date a FAMILY UNIT!

that is the difference, and a HUGE ONE!

* That said, who knows who you will end up being attracted to, spending time with. Just remember the distinction above!
 

joekerr31

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wyld,

no offense, but its impossible to have a close and loving relationship with a single mom if her kids dont eventually become a part of your life.

the reality is her kids are a part of her, like her leg or arm.

its simply not possible in the long term to split your emotional reality into two - your kids and your man.

it will become the woman's STRONG desire to unite the two if simply to acheive a sense of cognitive continuity to her life.

and all women know this. they subconscious screen a man based on - when we get to that point, is going to be able to jump into the daddy role.

i mean, there's nothing wrong with all this. in fact it just makes sense. lets say my wife died and i was raising 2 kids. would i want a woman in my life that was all about my desires? no. i'd want a woman that met my desires and also showed potential to integrate into my life over the long haul - and that means with my kids.

you can play the She-Rah card all you want, but i'm sorry, any single guy getting involved with a single mom, had best be prepared to be a daddy at some point - id say anywhere between 6-12 months.

generally speaking.

J
 

Tazman

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My father was also gone most of my life (he molested my older sister). I was crushed when my dad was gone (didn't know the full story until I was older). I had no rolemodel, but I had a very strong desire to have one. I used to wonder what kind of man my mom would bring home (she's never been with any other man after him) and if he could fill the role as "daddy."

I think that not only does the mother want a guy who'd be a good father, but also the kids. It may be different for kids who never met their father, but I know that in my situation I felt really deprived and I'm now starting to realize why.

I think it's no coincidence that me and all my close friends have a difficult time dealing with women all having been raised by single mothers. I have a nephew who's father is hardly ever around and I cringe at some of the "feminine" behaviours encouraged by his mother (my sister) and grandmother (my mother).
 

tmpgstx

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I think the biggest thing encouraged by single mothers on their sons is guilt. It's only because women have and feel more guilt most of the time due to their more sensitive nature. They also care too much about what other people think of them, not to mention worry over trivial things needlessly at times.

When dealing with women, it's the assertiveness which is often taken as confidence by women from men who grew up with fathers. It's no wonder why many of these types of guys are jerks because their father did not respect their mother as such. It carries on a take me or leave me bytch attitude or i'll find someone who will.

I'd personally rather be a gentlemen with respect for others and myself. My actions speak louder than words through deed and accomplishments.
 

dietzcoi

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All single mothers are looking for a man to be daddy to their kids and take care of them. You are setting yourself up for chumphood if you think otherwise. Even my current GF sometimes hints to me about this and her kids are over 18!!!!

THis is instinctive so there is no point complaining about it, and no point denying it!

Dietzcoi
 

Heretolearn

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The better question is why are we all so affected by our mothers behaviours?

I should be able to spend time with my mother and not lose myself.

Thus the self awareness. I guess it is hard at a young age though!
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Long, but worth the read

Didn't have time to elaborate last night on the psycho-evolutionary basis for women seeking out potential father surrogates so I'll hit you with it now.

WYLD, I opted out of the last dialogue over the single motherhood issue since you more than any other member have personal experiences with this. And although I do respect your opinions and learn a great deal from them, I think your personal involvement on this topic biases your estimation of it. So allow me to put forth as objective a retort as I can here.

I've aleady detailed above that mate selection is a psycho-biological function that our millenias of evolution has hardwired into both sexes. So internalized and socialized is this process into our collective psyches that we rarely recognize that we're subject to these motivators even when we continually repeat the same behaviors manifested by them. So saying that we're not subject to conditions we're not, or are only vaguely aware of is a bit naive.

It's simple Darwinian logic to follow that for a species to survive it must provide it''s offspring with the best possible conditions to ensure it's survival -either that or to reproduce in such quantity that it ensures survival. The obvious application of this for women is sharing parental investment with the best possible mate her own genetics allow her to attract and who can provide long term security for her and their potential offspring. Thus women are the filters of their own reproduction where as men's reproductive methodology is to scatter as much of his genetic material as humanly possible to the widest possible quantity of fertile females. He of course has his own criteria for mating selection and determining the best genetic hosts for his reproduction (she's gotta be hot), but this criteria is certainly less discriminating than that for women (i.e. no ones ugly after 2am). This is evidenced in our own hormonal biology; men posess 50 times the amount of testosterone women do and women produce substantially more estrogen and oxytocin than men.

That stated, both of these methodologies conflict in practice. For a woman to best ensure the survival of her young a man must necessarily abandon his method of reproduction. This then sets an imperative for him to pair with a woman who will satisfy his methodology. A male must sacrifice his reproduction schedule to satisfy that of the woman he pairs with. With so much genetic potential at stake on his part of the risk, he want's not only to ensure that she is the best possible candidate for breeding with, but also to know that his progeny will benefit form both parents involvement.

One interesting outcome of this psycho-biological dynamic is men's ability to spot their own children in a crowd of other children more quickly and with greater accuity than even their mothers. Studies have shown that men have the ability to more quickly and accurately identify their own children in a room full of kids dressed in the same uniforms than mothers of the child. Again, this stresses the subconscious importance of this genetic trade off.

Social Convention

To counter this subconscious dynamic to their own genetic advantage women initiate social conventions and psychological schemas to better facilitate their own breeding methodologies. This is why women always have the "perogative to change her mind" and the most fickle of behaviors become socially excusable, while men's behavior is constrained to a higher standard to "do the right thing" which is invarably to the advantage of a woman. This is why guys who are 'Players' and fathers who abandon mothers and children to pursue their innate reproduction method are villains, and fathers who selflessly sacrifice themselves financially, emotionally and life decision-wise are considered heroes for complying with women's genetic imperatives.

This is also the root motivation for female-specific social dynamics such as LJBF rejections, women's propensity for victimhood (as they've learned that this engenders martyr psychologies for men's breeding schedules) and even marriage itself.

Good Dads vs Good Genes

The two greatest difficulties for women to overcome in their own methodology is that they are only sexually viable for a short window of time (generally their 20s) and the fact that the qualities that make a good long term partner (the Good Dad) and the qualities that make for good breeding stock (Good Genes) rarely manifest themselves in the same male. Provisioning and security potential are fantastic motivators for pairing with a Good Dad, but the same characteristics that make him such are generally a disadvantage when compared with the man who better exemplifies genetic, physical attraction and the risk taking qualities that would imbue her child with a better capacity to adapt to it's environment (i.e stronger, faster, more attractive than others to ensure the passing of her own genetic material to future generations). This is the Jerk vs. Nice Guy paradox writ large on an evolutionary scale.

Men and women innately (though unconsciously) understand this dynamic, so in order for a woman to have the best that the Good Dad has to offer while taking advantage of the best that the Good Genes man has, she must invent and constantly modify social conventions to keep the advantage in her biological favor.

Reproductive Schedules

This paradox then necessitates that women (and by defalut men) must subscribe to short term and long term schdules of mating. Short term schdules facilitate breeding with the Good Genes male, while long term breeding is reserved the Good Dad male. This is convention and the psycho-social schemas that accompany it is precisely why women will marry the Nice Guy, stable, loyal, (preferably) doctor and still fvck the pool boy or the cute surfer she met on spring break. In our genetic past a male with good genes implied an ability to be a good provider, but modern convention has thwarted this so new social and mental schemas were developed for women.

Cheating

For this dynamic and the practicality of enjoying the best of both genetic worlds, women find it necessary to 'cheat'. This cheating can be done proactively or reactively. In the reactive model, a woman who has already paired with her long term partner choice, engages in an extramarital or pairing, sexual intercourse with a short term partner (i.e. the cheating wife or girlfriend). That's not to say this short term opportunity cannot develop into a 2nd, long term mate, but the action itself is a method for securing better genetic stock than the male provider is capable of supplying.

Proactive cheating is the single Mommy dillema. This form of 'cheating' relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security.

I want to stress again that women do not have some consciously recognized, master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it, rather the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. I fervently believe that for the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to it's influence.

For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she's able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring's survival with the best provisioning partner, this is an evolutionary jackpot.

The Cuckold

On some level of consciousness, men innately sense something is wrong with this situation, though they may not be able to place why they feel it or misunderstand it in the confusion of women's justifications for it. Or they become frustrated by the social pressures to 'do the right thing' and are shamed into martyrdom and committed by feigned responsibility to these conventions. Nevertheless, some see it well enough to stear clear of single mothers, etiher by prior experience or observing other male cuckolds saddled with the responsibility of raising and providing for - no matter how involved or uninvolved - another man's successful reproduction efforts with this woman.

The man in this position is (or at the very least interpreted as) a cuckold. He will never enjoy the same benefits as her short term partner in the way of sexual desire or immediacy of it, while at the same time enduring the social pressures of having to provide for this Good Gene father's progeny. It could be argued that he may contibute minimally to their wellfare, but on some level, whether emotional, physical, financial or educational he will contribute some effort for another man's genetic material in exchange for limited form of sexuality from the mother. To some degree, (even if only by his presence) he is sharing the parental investment that should be borne by the short term partner. If nothing else, he contibutes the time and effort to her he could be better invested in finding a sexual partner with which he could pursue his own genetic imperative by his own methodology. It is simply not worth his effort to couple with single mother when compared to a woman without children.

Men understand this instinctively, which is exactly why single mothers need to state things like,

"Single mothers don't look to the men they date to replace the father of their child/children"
in order to preserve there own gentic viability and the viability of every other woman engaging in the same schema. Anything countering this schema is met with violent opposition as it has the potential to limit what is a very complex, but highly successful social dynamic for women in such a position.



And this, my dear WYLDFIRE, is precisely why men instinctively and rightly shun single mothers.
 
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Heretolearn

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well said!


ISSUE:

But what does this mean for single mothers?

Who do they have relationships with - cuckolds only?
 

Heretolearn

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In essence, the girl dates you not your parents - no problem!

In practicality one must always adapt to their environment - yours is such where adaptation includes

- as ricky said, space from parents. Own phone line in room and private areas to hang out
- more outside dates and at the woman's house
- YOU TO BE INDEPENDENT from your parents. Very easy for you to be babied. DO not allow that. This will affect your personality and stunt your growth at your age.
 

Wyldfire

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Rollo...I always use my own experiences and things I see with my own two eyes when I debate issues like this.

I don't fit what you describe in any way. I have been a single mother since 1994. I've never looked to any of the men I've been involved with over the last 11-12 years to take care of me or my kids or to take on a parental role with my kids. I've got that covered myself. I've done a damn good job, too. The only man I've ever lived with since I left my ex husband was my fiance. We were together for 5 years but only lived together for about 6 months. He did take on a parental role eventually...but that was because of the situation in which we met. I had taken on the role of raising his 10 year old step son and supporting his 18 and 19 year old step children while he was in prison after their mother committed suicide. We met through his step children. Since I had taken on that role with his kids, after he got to know my children and they adored him and vice versa, I felt I had to give him the same authority over my children as he had given me over his. It was children that brought us together, so the situation was kind of unique.

Every other relationship I've had I limit the contact with my children...and often there is no contact at all. It's awful for a single mother to bring a string of men into the lives of their children. It teaches the wrong kind of values...and values are exceedingly important to me.

My best friend is a man who lives in another state. More than once he has told me that I need to find a guy to take care of me and my kids. My reaction to that is "F*ck that! I don't need anyone to take care of me or my kids. If I'm going to be with someone it's going to be because I want him in my life. My kids will respect him and they'll need to like each other...but ultimately, my kids are MY responsibility."

I have no interest or desire or intentions to ever get married again. If someone comes along who makes me want to fit them into my life for the long term...I'll make room for them...but I'm not out looking for that. I've abstained from sex for 5 years now. I've gone out on first dates with a few men over that time but wasn't interested in a second date with any of them. One of those men, after just one date with me proclaimed he was going to go buy a house so my kids and I could move in with him and he could "take care of us". Upon hearing him say that...I ran like hell. Not only do I NOT want that...I avoid it.

It's quite clear that I don't fit "nature" or the typical stereotype. I know a lot of single mothers. Sure, a few of them are as you describe to one extent or another...but not anywhere near to the degree that men here believe them to be.

More than anything, it is men's nature and their difficulties evolving with the times that influence this misconception about single mothers. Men still believe that all they have to do in order to hold onto a woman is to be a good provider, be able to have children and to protect her and the kids and that their job is done. They seem to still believe that this is what women need and want from them. It used to be that way...but it's not anymore. This is why men typically see a single mother and assume that her primary goal is to find some guy to provide for, protect and father her children. That's NOT what single mothers are looking for...not in general. We want companionship and someone to spend time with as an adult. We work hard raising and supporting our children...often with not much help from the father. Even though my ex is a total arsehole...I really wish that he wasn't and that he was a good father who could help take responsibility for our children. He can't, though...so it's all me. I could have very easily accepted any of numerous offers to end up having some guy support my kids and I, but that would be USING another human being...and that just is NOT cool.

Yeah, I get rather offended when single mothers get slammed on so badly on this forum. Why? Because I AM one and I am nothing at all like single mothers are portrayed on this forum. And as I've mentioned...there is only ONE single mother I have ever known who actually fits the stereotypical description...and she was always frowned on by other single mothers who knew her.
Many single mothers do hope to find a good man who she eventually settles down with...but so does every other single person. Whether or not she has kids has nothing to do with that, though. Having a child doesn't make a woman want to find a good man to settle down with. Almost all women want that whether they have kids or not.

When a single mother accepts a date with a man she does it because she'd like to get away from being a parent for a little while, have companionship and adult company and feel like a woman for the evening instead of a mother. Pulling in a guy to provide for her and her kids and play father is the LAST thing she's thinking about.
 

hartwell

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Recently you've been posting that you're having a hard time meeting suitable women. Perhaps you should take an honest look at whether or not your unrealistic demands might be a good part of the problem you're having.

i don't think finding a woman without kids should be unrealistic.. Nothing wrong with wanting things the old fashioned way.
 

hartwell

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When a single mother accepts a date with a man she does it because she'd like to get away from being a parent for a little while, have companionship and adult company and feel like a woman for the evening instead of a mother. Pulling in a guy to provide for her and her kids and play father is the LAST thing she's thinking about.

yeah right:crackup:
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by yendor28
The issue with your post is that you assume it is all about you [the single mother]. Some men feel obligated to look after the family of someone they date EVEN if the woman does not want or need them too.

Consequently, those sort of men should rightfully avoid single mothers if that is what they want.

* you should know about this site that it is all about the person not the external. I>E really want to remove the 'stereotype' of single mothers than deal with some men's issues of 'responsibility'

You did not run from mr 'i offer a house for you and your kids' because of him, but because of something inside of you!


SIDENOTE: Thank you for your posts. I would not be here if it were not one ABSOLUTELY AMAZING single mother!

Your child(ren) will thank you for being a good parent with every breath they take!
That's what I'm saying...it isn't really the single mothers who are actually looking to a man to take on the role of the father as it is the guy assuming that he has to take on that role. The single mother honestly isn't looking for that or even thinking about it. The man does this to himself...placing expectations upon himself and responsibilities on himself that the single mother isn't.

It would be much more honest if men could just say "Gee...if I were to date a single mother I would feel like I had to take responsibility for her and her kids because SOCIETY tells me that's my job." That's the whole issue...and too many men just aren't willing to even consider that this is another one of those things where men shoot themselves in the foot and place those kinds of burdens on themselves. I'm only saying it's really uncool, unfair and inaccurate to claim that single mothers have these kinds of goals and expectations...because MOST of the single moms I know...myself included...are NOT on the hunt for a replacement father. We just want the same darn things every other person wants...with or without children.

I'm glad you had a good mother. Some women do a great job raising sons.
 

englishman

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Originally posted by frivolousz21
well sometimes its better to have no man at all.

my grandpa was abusive..I took some of those traits..I wish i didnt have them.


and he didnt say she just wanted to have a kid.


I just want to be a good father and man..so my children have a good hero to loook up to
Ah Friv, I think your exhibiting some of the behaviour typical of a guy raised by women, you say your grandpa was abusive and you took some of those traits, have you ever really looked at wether he was abusive or if it was just your pissed off grandma saying he was?
also have you ever looked at if your grandma was in fact a right ***** and pushed him over the edge?

Im not trying to dis you or your family, but it could be that you arent seeing the whole picture......
years ago I had a bit of a revelation, I got 4 pieces of paper, marked them as follows; Dad / good points..........Dad/ bad points.....Mum/ good points..........Mum/ bad points


Dad/bad points was sooo easy to fill out, heck id had my single mum constantly remind of them since I was about 5 when they split.... Mum/good points ahhh, is that angels I can hear singing? again soo easy to fill in........

Now came the tricky bit, Dad/good points? I hated that as*hole, he didnt have any good points...err...did he....well yeah, actually he had a quite a few, and some of them like his exellent ability to pick up chicks! (no joke) was something I had come to see as just another as*hole part of him, and therefore try and be the opposite of to please mommy and myself!
As you can see, this was not good, and I started to get a bit upset with my mum, which lead me to the 4th piece of paper, my mums bad points....ohhh, shamefull, she didnt have any..err...did she?
well yes, right off the bat theres the one i just discovered, she raised me to detest my dad and told me to never be like him! and that was just bad parenting,
but it went a lot further, she actually had a lot of messed up stuff .... so like a pendulum swings, I decided my dad was great and actually it was my mum that was now bad.
but nowadays I think ive got a balanced view off it all, including the good the bad and the ugly that ive got from em and the stuff ive added/subtracted of my own....

Long rant, but try it....4 pieces of paper!
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by englishman
Ah Friv, I think your exhibiting some of the behaviour typical of a guy raised by women, you say your grandpa was abusive and you took some of those traits, have you ever really looked at wether he was abusive or if it was just your pissed off grandma saying he was?
also have you ever looked at if your grandma was in fact a right ***** and pushed him over the edge?

Im not trying to dis you or your family, but it could be that you arent seeing the whole picture......
years ago I had a bit of a revelation, I got 4 pieces of paper, marked them as follows; Dad / good points..........Dad/ bad points.....Mum/ good points..........Mum/ bad points


Dad/bad points was sooo easy to fill out, heck id had my single mum constantly remind of them since I was about 5 when they split.... Mum/good points ahhh, is that angels I can hear singing? again soo easy to fill in........

Now came the tricky bit, Dad/good points? I hated that as*hole, he didnt have any good points...err...did he....well yeah, actually he had a quite a few, and some of them like his exellent ability to pick up chicks! (no joke) was something I had come to see as just another as*hole part of him, and therefore try and be the opposite of to please mommy and myself!
As you can see, this was not good, and I started to get a bit upset with my mum, which lead me to the 4th piece of paper, my mums bad points....ohhh, shamefull, she didnt have any..err...did she?
well yes, right off the bat theres the one i just discovered, she raised me to detest my dad and told me to never be like him! and that was just bad parenting,
but it went a lot further, she actually had a lot of messed up stuff .... so like a pendulum swings, I decided my dad was great and actually it was my mum that was now bad.
but nowadays I think ive got a balanced view off it all, including the good the bad and the ugly that ive got from em and the stuff ive added/subtracted of my own....

Long rant, but try it....4 pieces of paper!
It sucks that parents do that to each other. It just so happens that my oldest 3 children's father is genuinely an *******. I let them figure that out on their own, though. Kids are far more intelligent than their parents give them credit for. By the time my older 3 kids hit 13 or 14 years old they figured out what their father was all about and they were pretty disgusted. He tried his best to bad mouth me and turn the kids against me...and he accuses me of doing that all the time. I never have, though. He lied to the kids repeatedly and they eventually got old enough to know what was true and what were lies. I always told them the truth whenever they asked, but didn't volunteer any information unless necessary.

There are too many parents who are more interested in hating and getting "even" with their exes than they are in loving their children. It's really retarded...
 

iqqi

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Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
On some level of consciousness all women want a male to share parental investment with... it is preferable to have two parents rather than one... even 5 year old girls know this...
I agree with this, and I don't see what is wrong with this thinking. but i also don't think that it makes a single mother single sighted on that task. by the time they have reached the point of being a single mother, they have probaly been through enough and are mature enough to not blindly go after the romantic ideas they might have had as a 5 year old.

also, sometimes a single mother is a single mother through her own mistakes, true. but most of the time it is because the fathers just didn't stick around, for whatever reason. be glad mommy didn't ditch you like daddy did. there must be something redemptive in that.

the plain truth is that most of the people i know raised by a single parent (sadly, almost everyone i know), it is because the father was a piece of sh!t. left for the woman next door. left to pursue "fun" times. left cuz, hey, papa was a rolling stone.
 

hartwell

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the plain truth is that most of the people i know raised by a single parent (sadly, almost everyone i know), it is because the father was a piece of sh!t. left for the woman next door. left to pursue "fun" times. left cuz, hey, papa was a rolling stone.
well if that is the case then you have to look at her judgement of men. Picking players, pretty boys, thugs, jerks will only
get you used and abused. Women get the last say who they want to sleep with.
so the bucks fall on them.
 

iqqi

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Originally posted by hartwell
well if that is the case then you have to look at her judgement of men. Picking players, pretty boys, thugs, jerks will only
get you used and abused. Women get the last say who they want to sleep with.
so the bucks fall on them.
these are just excuses and generalizations.

i think it very (un)funny that a board full of men are crying about how they don't have daddies, and it is all the mom's fault.

point the finger in both directions atleast. maybe mom made a bad decision in the love department. you better stop judging because every single person on these boards has, more than once. i think it is worse for dad to disappear, than it ever is for mom making a love mistake. most love is a mistake.;)
 
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