alright here's my question. have any of you, being out-of-the-ordinary DJs, and not caving to a woman's every desire, encountered a girl that expects gentlemanly behavior...and you DENIED it? My gf right now seems to expect me to walk around my car and OPEN the door for her when we go anywhere. when i called her on it saying "what... is THAT what qualifies as a good boyfriend nowadays?" she kinda looked at me like "duh" and started to say something but went "ugh. nevermind" and opened the door and got in. this seems to me (and my limited understanding of one course worth of psychology) to be a bit of a power struggle. what is the correct way to deal with this sort of situation? i feel like it is necessary to establish that i control the frame and that she's not the one who makes the decision, but at what point do i draw a line and let chivalry and common courtesy take over and just open the damn door? 'preciate it folks.
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qualifications of a good bf/a power struggle
- Thread starter (JJ)
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Last Man Standing
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Is she a virgin?
KontrollerX
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All of this should of been taken care of in your own personal qualification process of her bro before the relationship even really got started.
If you don't want a princess you have to rule that type out as an automatic next after you find it out in the qualification process during dating.
Otherwise if you continue with this chick the power struggles are just going to continue, she is going to want what she wants and resentment will build and she will cheat on you or leave you for someone who will play her chivalrous knight.
And yes despite what I've said its important to keep the frame with a chick you have made your girlfriend but it works best when you and that girl want pretty much the same things out of a relationship.
From what it sounds like here you and this girl are two different people and your incredible differences about what makes a relationship good are destined to drive you apart.
Qualify better for what you want exactly next time around brother.
If you don't want a princess you have to rule that type out as an automatic next after you find it out in the qualification process during dating.
Otherwise if you continue with this chick the power struggles are just going to continue, she is going to want what she wants and resentment will build and she will cheat on you or leave you for someone who will play her chivalrous knight.
And yes despite what I've said its important to keep the frame with a chick you have made your girlfriend but it works best when you and that girl want pretty much the same things out of a relationship.
From what it sounds like here you and this girl are two different people and your incredible differences about what makes a relationship good are destined to drive you apart.
Qualify better for what you want exactly next time around brother.
Skepsis
Don Juan
I'd just open the damn door for her. Pick your battles man, this isn't important enough to argue over and will ultimately provide valuable leverage for future conflict.
see that's my problem. this is the viewpoint i've kind of adopted. and it's not like she wants me to do all kinds of stuff for her. she doesn't treat me like a servant. i feel like i've done a poor job of explaining it i guess. it's like this was just kinda out of the blue the other day. weve been together for close to 3 mos. (kinda long for a hs relationship lol) and she seems to be most of what i want out of a girl. there are a LOT more similarities than i've ever had. not to mention she's really pretty fun.Skepsis said:
Skepsis
Don Juan
I actually got hit with this subject the other day too. My girlfriend had the balls to mention how her ex-boyfriend always opened the car door for her (where as I do it occasionally.) I didn't know what the hell to say to that so I just kind of stared at her like 'okay...'(JJ) said:
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
"So you want me to act like your ex, huh?"Skepsis said:
ready123
Master Don Juan
I don't do that car stuff either, I'm usually talking my ass off on the way to the car and don't remember and when it's raining I'm like, get in the car as fast as you can
personally I think if it's too much of a power struggle, it wasn't meant to be. you got your own standard of whats important in a relationship and she has her own. ideally they should overlap
when they don't, it's fighting up the ass. or someone's playing the other
personally I think if it's too much of a power struggle, it wasn't meant to be. you got your own standard of whats important in a relationship and she has her own. ideally they should overlap
when they don't, it's fighting up the ass. or someone's playing the other
LovelyLady
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Sounds to me like you are with a traditional woman.
"Old school" girls feel that grown-up Men get the door for a Lady. It's one of those unspoken indicators that seperates all the random "guys" that ask us out from the "Men" that ask us out.
Guiding us by touching the small of our backs, taking our hands and going first and leading us through crowds, being courteous helping us with our coats, choosing the table we sit at, etc. - it's what a good man/gentleman does. He assumes command of the small situations and movements/space/environment.
It seems you and she may not be compatible as she seems to want a man who is comfortable with traditional masculine role/interactions, while you are wanting a less traditional/modern girl.
(...And to Keto - before you go off upon reading this - let me just go ahead and say - Argue all you want about whether you think it is wrong, silly or what-not, but it is what it is
:crackup: )
"Old school" girls feel that grown-up Men get the door for a Lady. It's one of those unspoken indicators that seperates all the random "guys" that ask us out from the "Men" that ask us out.
Guiding us by touching the small of our backs, taking our hands and going first and leading us through crowds, being courteous helping us with our coats, choosing the table we sit at, etc. - it's what a good man/gentleman does. He assumes command of the small situations and movements/space/environment.
It seems you and she may not be compatible as she seems to want a man who is comfortable with traditional masculine role/interactions, while you are wanting a less traditional/modern girl.
(...And to Keto - before you go off upon reading this - let me just go ahead and say - Argue all you want about whether you think it is wrong, silly or what-not, but it is what it is
:crackup: )JackPrescott
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I dont mind being a gentleman to women who are putting out. If she is offering me her vagina and anal canal upon demand, she will get her chair pulled for her, car doors open, ect.
LovelyLady
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These acts of courtesy/chivalry/traditional displays of masculinity are nice for us as women to be on the receiving of, most certainly. But they really aren't about us... they are really more about nonverbal communications that tell us about the kind of man we are with.
These are things that make certain people comfortable, feel respected - and like they are with someone who respects himself. These things are interpreted differently by different people, I guess.
I have girl friends who refuse to let a man get any door for them - they feel it is an affront to their independence as liberated women. I don't feel like I am disrespected or less capable when I receive this "gift" on a date - but it is not only the gift of the door itself opening - it is of him being a Man for/to me - if that makes sense?
So, go figure - they are functioning under the same paradigm many of you guys are - it is all about having power over - or worrying about having your own power and losing it to someone else, I think.
For me, I like a man who has a control and power over himself and the date - right down to inviting me in to his car and getting the door for me. I like that he has that power - it doesn't threaten me or my independence that he controls the when and where of our evening - even down to when I get in his car.
I experience the act of my date getting the door for me as an expression of his own power/empowerment - it is an act of strength, not weakness. He's being the Man. I really am surprised that so many of you see it as a weak act!
These are things that make certain people comfortable, feel respected - and like they are with someone who respects himself. These things are interpreted differently by different people, I guess.
I have girl friends who refuse to let a man get any door for them - they feel it is an affront to their independence as liberated women. I don't feel like I am disrespected or less capable when I receive this "gift" on a date - but it is not only the gift of the door itself opening - it is of him being a Man for/to me - if that makes sense?
So, go figure - they are functioning under the same paradigm many of you guys are - it is all about having power over - or worrying about having your own power and losing it to someone else, I think.
For me, I like a man who has a control and power over himself and the date - right down to inviting me in to his car and getting the door for me. I like that he has that power - it doesn't threaten me or my independence that he controls the when and where of our evening - even down to when I get in his car.
I experience the act of my date getting the door for me as an expression of his own power/empowerment - it is an act of strength, not weakness. He's being the Man. I really am surprised that so many of you see it as a weak act!
Interceptor
Master Don Juan
I always get a smile and a "Thank you" when I do the "chivalry" stuff. And I don't make a big fuss out of it. Most women seems really impressed by it, and I just do it naturally, unconsciously in a way.
Maybe you guys arenot too well calibrated yet? Still a little nervous about it?
Maybe because I don't have a problem with it? Or because I do it naturally and don't make a big fuss out of it?
And LL is right, whenever I "guide" a woman, they seem really "surrendered' in a way...
So women whom have good values, self respect AND Respect for YOU usually APPRECIATE your masculine gesture.
Many women want to feel 'safe' and 'protected' by a man.
Think about that.
I think it is important to evaluate these 'roles' and gestures.
And I think it IS very important for Men to really define their VALUES, and really KNOW what they WANT top stand for, and stand up for.
This really helps you decide , go for, and appreciate what you really want in life, especially with a woman and a relationship.
Know yourself, and know your VALUES.
Very important.
Maybe you guys arenot too well calibrated yet? Still a little nervous about it?
Maybe because I don't have a problem with it? Or because I do it naturally and don't make a big fuss out of it?
And LL is right, whenever I "guide" a woman, they seem really "surrendered' in a way...
So women whom have good values, self respect AND Respect for YOU usually APPRECIATE your masculine gesture.
Many women want to feel 'safe' and 'protected' by a man.
Think about that.
I think it is important to evaluate these 'roles' and gestures.
And I think it IS very important for Men to really define their VALUES, and really KNOW what they WANT top stand for, and stand up for.
This really helps you decide , go for, and appreciate what you really want in life, especially with a woman and a relationship.
Know yourself, and know your VALUES.
Very important.
LovelyLady
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Now you know all the women that lurk on this board are on Expedia pricing plane tickets to Florida... :yes:Interceptor said:
Interceptor
Master Don Juan
LOL!
(blush)
I just wanted to state that I do these things because they are my values. They may not be other guys's values. Which is fine.
And I dont do it to try to covertly 'get' something from a woman.
I mean, I don't strategize like "OK, now I'm going to open the car door like so!!"
It's just that a man takes the lead, and keeps a woman safe, and like LL said to be aware of the little nuances and the dynamics.
Women pay attention to the details, so they pay attention to Men who do this too. Or at the very least aware of it.
Think about that.
If you think you are 'giving away your power', then you really had little to begin with.
A woman can't hurt you that way, only if you function with your Ego. And women know how to puncture and hurt your Ego.
I still remember this "Blind Date" episode, where there was this guy who was pretty self conscious of the chivalry thing, and was calling his date 'M'Lady" the entire time.
"Oooh, let me get that for you, M'Lady." Like that. Like he was in a Shakespeare play or something, which might be acceptable if your date was at a Renaissance fair or something, and she liked that too.
She realized the guy was not too socially experienced, needless to say there was no second date.
Poor guy...
(blush)
I just wanted to state that I do these things because they are my values. They may not be other guys's values. Which is fine.
And I dont do it to try to covertly 'get' something from a woman.
I mean, I don't strategize like "OK, now I'm going to open the car door like so!!"
It's just that a man takes the lead, and keeps a woman safe, and like LL said to be aware of the little nuances and the dynamics.
Women pay attention to the details, so they pay attention to Men who do this too. Or at the very least aware of it.
Think about that.
If you think you are 'giving away your power', then you really had little to begin with.
A woman can't hurt you that way, only if you function with your Ego. And women know how to puncture and hurt your Ego.
I still remember this "Blind Date" episode, where there was this guy who was pretty self conscious of the chivalry thing, and was calling his date 'M'Lady" the entire time.
"Oooh, let me get that for you, M'Lady." Like that. Like he was in a Shakespeare play or something, which might be acceptable if your date was at a Renaissance fair or something, and she liked that too.
She realized the guy was not too socially experienced, needless to say there was no second date.
Poor guy...