Orbiters: It's a RESPECT issue, not a trust issue

[Desdinova]

In the past when I've confronted women who have orbiters, I'd always get the same line... "Don't you trust me?" This used to stump me because I did trust her, but her having male orbiters never sits well with me. It's actually quite normal for men to feel this way. We instinctively want to protect our investments, and that includes women.

With the "don't you trust me" question, women make sure they get their own way by making it a "trust" issue, making you feel guilty for even questioning their integrity.

But it's not about trust.

Two people in a relationship need to respect each other in order to make it work. Doing things that cause the other to doubt the integrity of their companion is only going to cause friction, frustration, and unhappiness. This in itself tarnishes the relationship.

Out of respect, your companion should avoid causing unneeded frustration in the relationship by eliminating or avoiding close friends of the opposite sex. Not only that, you need to be the leader and provide the example by doing the same yourself.

If you're going to be in a relationship, take it seriously. That goes for you and the woman. If one person isn't going to take it seriously, then they shouldn't be in the damn relationship.

As Don Juans, we know that if the woman's a piece of 5hit, we can throw her away and get another one. If the woman in question wants a relationship but doesn't want to respect you by throwing away her male friends, then either use her for a cvm dumpster or toss her away. NEVER compromise your happiness for a disrespectful woman.

 

[samspade]

I call this Conduct Detrimental To The Relationship. (Not to sound like good ol' Roger Goodell or anything.)

It doesn't matter if she's up to shenanigans or not. She should respect (as you said) the relationship and the man enough not to do anything that would be construed as such. Orbiters, girls' nights out, exes, dating site profiles. At some point she should eliminate these if she wants you to stick around.

 

[piranha45]

In reality we are all lazy, and tempted to compromise in these situations. But the theoretical answer remains...

Her: "Don't you trust me?"

You: "Nope. Its them or me. Make a choice."

You giving her any slack beyond making a prompt choice shows that YOU are WEAK.

We must stop being weak/lazy, and make our women SUBMIT, or leave them for ones that will.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I usually avoid any kind of shaming. That tends to create arguments. Nobody ever thinks they are doing anything wrong. When you start using "shoulds" "I think women should..."

and women start saying "I think men should..."

It turns it into a battle of egos. I've found framing it as a "compatibility issue" is a lot less hassle.

That way you can tell her you don't like what she's doing, without laying on any judgment.

"Look I know you like hanging around guys you aren't dating. I just don't like dating girls who hang out with other guys when I'm not around. Maybe we're not compatible after all. What do you think?"

It's a lot easier to sort for girls who'll naturally submit to you than try and CONVINCE any particular girl to submit to you.

 

[Tenacity]

Des,

Lol, you are 100% correct but the problem is that we are operating in a new market buddy. Yes, common sense says that a chick should NOT keep males friends around who she knows good and damn well either tried to fvck her before, or fvcked her before. But common sense doesn't exist in this market of women. Their mentality is that they can just put a guy in the "we are just cool" category and keep him there, without there ever being a chance that if they got enough alone time, that they could possibly do the nasty (for the first time or do it again).

So you have Jessica, Brian and Tenacity. Tenacity and Jessica fooled around before but it never went to any type of serious relationship, they mainly just did the friends with benefits thing and remained "cool" with each other ever sense. Now Jessica is in a serious relationship with Brian, and Brian is like Des, he doesn't believe Tenacity's scandalous a.ss should be "so close" to his chick Jessica.

But Jessica's mentality is, "Well, I used to like Tenacity and we fvcked and all that, but we were never serious. I'm in love with Brian now and I can never see myself with Tenacity again. But Tenacity is a cool guy to be around, so we can be cool but I will never fvck him again."

Now this is just an example, I personally would not hang around a chick like this in a serious relationship for fear that Brian might fvck me up lol. But this is a chick's mentality and the issue is that if Brian questions this, then the chick will turn around and say that Brian is being an A-hole, doesn't trust her, is insecure, is jealous, and the whole nine yards.

All the while, when Brian is gone and Jessica is left alone with her "buddy" Tenacity, there's still an extremely HIGH chance that they might do the nasty once again but agree (as friends) to keep it on the hush-hush.

Bottom line, DO NOT TRUST any chick in today's market. If you get into a relationship with a chick, EXPECT her to be cheating on the side, hey man it is what it is. Let your relationship with the chick be based on something that she brings to you that would be difficult to replace, such as good companionship or being a good friend. But you guys have got to drop this mentality that the chick you are with isn't cheating on you, trust me, every chick cheats....and usually it's with the very same guys that you are "insecure about" but she's telling you NOT to be insecure about lol.

And understand cheating doesn't just have to be actual fvcking. Chicks can flirt with other guys, let other guys fill up on them, she could be sexting other guys, or she might be on Facebook sending nasty inbox messages back and forth.

Stay at home wives are doing this shyt on the REGULAR. While Brian is off at work, busting his a.ss off, she's on Facebook sending some guy named Tenacity her nude pictures

 

[GS750]

well said. if she's in an ltr then her bf should be her main focus. if she's interested in keeping orbiters and backups then she's showing that she's naturally not ltr material

 

[glass half full]

My first wife used to use this game..."Don't you trust me? If you don't trust me then you don't really love me".

Famous last words, I learned that for quite some time I had a right not to trust her. When I hear lines like that now I get beyond suspicious. I treat them like a wayward kid. That's how they act.

You are right Desdinova. It is all about respect. Always.

 

[zekko]

But this is a chick's mentality and the issue is that if Brian questions this, then the chick will turn around and say that Brian is being an A-hole, doesn't trust her, is insecure, is jealous, and the whole nine yards.

That's exactly the game plan females go with in this situation. Problem is, most guys completely fold at this point. Men tend to react like a kid touching a hot stove when they hear the words "insecure" or "jealous". No guy wants to be those things, and women use that to manipulate them.

I agree with taiyuu. If they can't see this from your perspective, then they have to be considered incompatible. Women basically see hanging around with "male friends" as an entitlement, and fewer men need to put up with it in order to reverse it.

This should only be an issue if you are exclusive or plan to be.

Yes.

 

[Fruitbat]

Can a woman in a relationship have male friends at all?

Personally, I have hardly any female friends. Certainly not ones who I would go to lunch with. Perhaps a few texts here and there organising nights out etc.

Half the problem is women tend not to want to be friends with me as I'm not a lovey dovey guy, I'm candid and open about my past screwing hookers and the like. I've had many arguments with women in my social group about things like female entitlement, the mysandry of modern society etc and many hate me for it!

Some of the people I know do have genuine guy friends or girl friends but I assume that 90% of the guys want to bang. Must be a sexist as I have no idea what a man would want female friends for. I've purely wanted them for info and tips on dating but found that girls give bad info and don't like discussing this with me. Funny as I would Lways be happy to tell a woman how to get a guy! Quite interesting to give her honest advice!

A lot of women use orbiters to validate her choice in you and also to get you jealous. Trust me, I've been an orbiter and it is NO fun to be used as a sex toy in another relationship.

I had a plate tell me she has a best male friend who refuses to sleep in the same bed with her. She said she sleeps with all her female friends why not the guy? I was like are you stupid? He'd prob get hard or try to hump you.

I truly think she was testing what I would allow. What sort of skank tests this on a man? It's like me asking if a bj is actually cheating....

 

[bmp2cpm]

While I absolutely agree her with everything everyone is saying, I feel the need to point out something.

Women with lot's of orbiters are generally damaged goods. They have major childhood issues where they didn't get the love from their parent or parents, most often their father.

Like it or not you can't rationalize away a woman's bad childhood. You cannot instantly change her thought patterns or heal her bad childhood.

Myself, I prefer the damaged women where their mother was the one withholding all the love, as they tend to be the more loyal, more loving, one-guy only type of gal. Of course the downside is they are super clingy and dependent. But that's OK with me. To each his own.

Perhaps the reason these women have the orbiters is because they are terrified of being dependent on only one guy because they could never rely on their father, so why should they solely rely on you?

Every woman is essentially a compromise. If you want her more independent, she may have parent issues and as a result lot's of male orbiters.

Go for the best compromise you can, I think.

 

[VladPatton]

I usually avoid any kind of shaming. That tends to create arguments. Nobody ever thinks they are doing anything wrong. When you start using "shoulds" "I think women should..."

and women start saying "I think men should..."

It turns it into a battle of egos. I've found framing it as a "compatibility issue" is a lot less hassle.

That way you can tell her you don't like what she's doing, without laying on any judgment.

"Look I know you like hanging around guys you aren't dating. I just don't like dating girls who hang out with other guys when I'm not around. Maybe we're not compatible after all. What do you think?"

It's a lot easier to sort for girls who'll naturally submit to you than try and CONVINCE any particular girl to submit to you.

Absolute best mentality to have. You're never going to make her drop all her male friends. It's her drug of choice. You should gauge her actions and leave the b!tch if she doesn't put the brakes on her male "buddies". Arguing and making her do something will make you seem insecure.

 

[Malcontent]

I see a bit of both sides so far in here. We know what camp I land squarely in, but I used to be in the "just trust her" camp.

And of course, all my writing is from the exclusive point of view bexause it just seems obvious that if you are non-exclusive then you should not care, but.....I have a question for those who think it is ok for your committed girl to hang out with other men.

Have you ever just walked away from a woman who pulls this on you? Hell, this question is for everyone. Share your stories on whether you just walked away and what happened, or accepted her behavior, and what happened.

I fought her having guy friends at first. She also complied at first. But then she said she should be able to have friends. Which were mostly all male. I was shamed and called jealous, controlling, etc. I quit trying to fight it and tried to accept her behavior. I tried real hard to bury my feelings on the matter. This was very difficult to do because I was trying to change a core belief/value. I eventually broke up. I knew all the guys wanted to fvck her and it seemed like she was luring them. It felt disrespectful. It never felt right in my gut. No proof of infidelity but it probably happened. Also a gut feeling. I liked a lot about her, but this one thing was a HUGE incompatibility.

 

[HeadLightsOn]

I'll throw a counter opinion in here. I have had very very close long term female friends, one in particular. Strictly platonic, made easier as she's not my type. Know her family, hang out etc. It's been this way for many years.

Her current and exes haven't had issues as I am seen (and am) a long term friend with NO other motives, either way.

So there hasn't been any hassles with that.

Now male orbiters/potential FBs etc - that's another issue. I agree with all the above on that count.

 

[mrRuckus]

In reality we are all lazy, and tempted to compromise in these situations. But the theoretical answer remains...

Her: "Don't you trust me?"

You: "Nope. Its them or me. Make a choice."

You giving her any slack beyond making a prompt choice shows that YOU are WEAK.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/05/07/ultimatum/

Ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness because you are resorting to a direct threat to get someone to do what you want them to, and in doing so you OVERTLY confess your weak position. If you were in a genuine position of control it wouldn’t be necessary to resort to an ultimatum; you’d simply use that control. There are many ways to effect a change in another person, but ultimatums will never prompt a genuine change. If they change behavior it’s prompted by the threat, not unprompted, organic desire.

 

[resilient]

I've enjoyed this discussion. This is a fresh insight into respect when a majority of the time the focus is all on trust. There definitely feels like a double standard here. It's not fair that women get to pull the "jealous" or "insecure" card for their inappropriate behavior by keeping orbiters close in person, text, fb, or other casual game app while committed long term exclusive ltr.

I'd always hoped that over time as the relationship got serious a woman would know the right thing to do by phasing out suitors once she made up her mind to marry/stay married/committed to a ltr.

My theory about close suitors or orbiters is a lot like us DJs. We want to keep spinning plates in case the main plate drops.

We like keeping options open. It gives us power over ourselves and a protective layer in the case of a relationship breakdown or when life gets bumpy.

We like to have a fall back plan, especially if we felt we made the wrong choice for a life long mate. We only have one life, so if an exclusive ltr is the goal. Orbiters should naturally fade into the backdrop as the relationship becomes more committed and such.

It takes a strong and secure woman to know when she's ready to ignore a suitor or drop the ex who pops up out of the blue on fb/text/email every now and then to "just say hey". It takes emotional maturity and integrity to ignore the sudden attention/dopamine hits they get from contact with the OS.

 

[G_Govan]

Lets call it what it is. Plate Spinning (indirectly). That's why it's inherently uncomfortable.

A woman who sees you as high value won't do it, at least to your face. If she's hot she won't even need to put forth any effort, men will willingly line themselves up.

The guise of friendship between men and women is used to maintain people as options, however remotely. As a man, unless a woman is physically repulsive, you're going to picture yourself f-cking her, whether or not it materializes doesn't matter. I don't know a single guy who would entertain the idea of a close, platonic relationship with an ugly woman. Women will use "orbiters" as backup if they need to. Orbiters are simply opportunists. They may not ever get her in the sack but they'll maintain contact in case they hit the lottery.

 

[Atom Smasher]

In the past when I've confronted women who have orbiters, I'd always get the same line... "Don't you trust me?" This used to stump me because I did trust her, but her having male orbiters never sits well with me. It's actually quite normal for men to feel this way. We instinctively want to protect our investments, and that includes women.

With the "don't you trust me" question, women make sure they get their own way by making it a "trust" issue, making you feel guilty for even questioning their integrity.

But it's not about trust.

Two people in a relationship need to respect each other in order to make it work. Doing things that cause the other to doubt the integrity of their companion is only going to cause friction, frustration, and unhappiness. This in itself tarnishes the relationship.

Out of respect, your companion should avoid causing unneeded frustration in the relationship by eliminating or avoiding close friends of the opposite sex. Not only that, you need to be the leader and provide the example by doing the same yourself.

If you're going to be in a relationship, take it seriously. That goes for you and the woman. If one person isn't going to take it seriously, then they shouldn't be in the damn relationship.

As Don Juans, we know that if the woman's a piece of 5hit, we can throw her away and get another one. If the woman in question wants a relationship but doesn't want to respect you by throwing away her male friends, then either use her for a cvm dumpster or toss her away. NEVER compromise your happiness for a disrespectful woman.

Des, one of the best posts I've seen on here on a long time. Definitely the right perspective.

Sometimes they need to be trained, though, and they will comply once they get it.