Open letter to Game Haters

[Syren]

:box: Raa!

Originally posted by me "elsewhere"

To Whom It May Concern:

As the seduction community becomes more open and in the mainstream, it seems young men who are tying its techniques for the first few times are been crucified by the media and a large number within society. These guys who have never had success with women are being punished by society for trying to improve their lives. They are working hard to achieve a goal and the firs thing society does is turn around and say STOP. If they were advancing ANYTHING other than their success with women, we'd be all for it. If the community was a fashion community women would think its adorable... yet the seduction community is assumed to be full of tricksters.

I personally take offence with this view, I have never intentionally misled a woman I care about enough to sleep with. Nor shall I. Running routines is such a tiny part of what game is about, these guys have never talked to women before, how can they expect to "be themselves" and be successful with women. Yet this is seen as tricking a woman into bed, and something to watch out for. These guys have to learn somehow, they are the guys that couldn't get a woman, and now someone gave them tools THAT WORK, and we turn around and tell them they're wrong? This absurd, unfair and hypocrisy of the must unjust nature.

There is a belief in society that "who you are" cannot be wrong. Your opinions can be wrong, your beliefs can be but who you are is something you have to stay true to. Who you are can be a neurotic mess, but you should still "be yourself just not neurotic", this is clearly absurdity. I am still me, I still feel the same emotions I just know how to handle social situations better. This doesn't invalidate my emotions at all. The fact that these men are using a routine to pick someone up is the exact same as girls who make their boyfriends do stupid magazine tests. It is meaningless fun designed to show you a side of a guy you would ordinarily not look at.

Women have long complained that they keep going for the wrong guy. So finally the guys who are right for them find a way to get the attention of attractive women, and how does society respond? It doesn't like it one bit! What are we not supposed to rise above our physical station?! Not on my watch. These are the guys who haven't had women their whole lives, these are the guys who can actually bring depth to a relationship. They are the most deserving on the planet they are TRYING HARD to overcome the crap YOU in society have forced down their throat. They WILL become successful whether you like it or not because this stuff WORKS. When they do, they will K-NOW that they don't need routines ANYMORE because they have become someone who is CONFIDENT with women.

They will be being themselves when they have LEARNED HOW TO. Many people expect quiet and shy people to actually be like that deep down, to not have any real personality. This to me is society’s real crime. This is something society should be ASHAMED of. It has been forcing these guys the wrong message for decades, and now it tries to blame us for helping them? I don't accept it. How come it is ok to learn how to progress in your career? It is ok to learn how to dress well? It is ok to learn how to be good at sports? Yet suddenly when we learn how to be good with women we become tricksters? This is pure hypocrisy

I will fight the corner of any guy who is the unfortunate recipient of negative comment or abuse for their efforts to improve their social life. I start with this letter.

To the Gents in the community just starting out. Do not let people who discourage you get you down or stop you. They don't want you to be successful with women; they don't believe it’s possible, but we know different. You can learn to share the beauty of a woman as a person and physically, and your life will be better for it. Long live routines, long live the game, long live The GAME!.

Use this letter whenever you need it, please feel free to sign it also.
Signed


Simon Taylor (Syren)

 

[Jariel]

Well I certainly agree that men who are taking the initiative to improve their success with women and actually go out and do something should be commended and encouraged!

However, what I try to discourage is guys who go in search of magic tricks and quick fixes to give them success with women. They don't work and in most cases, cause more problems than they solve. The reason why I and others here promote "being yourself" is because this is what works best in our experience. If being yourself isn't getting much success, then improve yourself, iron out your flaws, increase your sex appeal and so on.

When I joined this board I tried every quick fix available, got some numbers, dates, but nothing more. Then I started socialising regularly and behaving naturally. It took a good while to overcome my shyness, but after a while I started opening up and found everyone wanted to be my friend. Likewise, I started improving my physique, dress sense and image, and now girls check me out from afar. Just the other day, I was in a coffee shop and my girlfriend caught a group of girls eyeing me up and talking about how hot I am etc. These are things that would never happen while I was rehearsing routines and studying DeAngelo and Jeffries etc

However, the thing I HATE about the community are those snakes like DeAngelo, Jeffries and Mystery, who lure in vulnerable men with the promise of some magic solution. Just like cult leaders, they prey on the weak, claim to be their friend, to show them the light etc...and then squeeze all their money out of them. Their DVDs must cost less than $50 to produce and less than $3 to replicate, and yet they charge well over $100 for each one! It's a con and it annoys me that so many good guys are getting sucked in by it.

 

[Syren]

Remember those things are devices for guys who don't know how to be themselves. The idea is that with those devices/lines or tricks they become socially calibrated and learn who they are. A Deangelo or Mystery cannot guide a persons entire social development, but they can provide them with tools to kick start that process.

If a guy is trying this stuff I wouldn't discourage him, I'd say try it and see, but always be natural with it. If you think of something funny to say mid set, say it. If you think of something that would go better and be more fun than the routine do it. The whole routine thing is the tool, the goal is social calibration.

 

[Socialreject]

Well, actually, people don't generally warm up to you until you've actually had some kind of success. This is the btch of working hard to achieve something, until you actually achieve something you are more often seen in a negative light than a positive one.

Just try going out there and trying to get people to invest in your business. When you're just getting started you will be viewed by pretty much everyone as if you are trying to 'take' their money, instead of trying to work out a mutually beneficial arrangement. Some people will even flat out tell you to fvck off and stop trying to scam them in to something. Yet, look a couple years down the line, you've had lots of *NO*, lots of setbacks, but eventually also some great successes. Now people are so open to your business that they are even starting to think of you doing THEM a favor! Suddenly you get invited with a friendly smile, get offered coffee, bourbon, heck you even got on a first name basis... but you are still doing the same thing you were couple years back.

And it's the same thing with learning about the game. When you are just trying out some techniques, some methods... trying to get in to the game and eager to try just about anything, you are just a bum trying to wiggle his way up the ladder. Yet as soon as you have some success, suddenly you are a great guy, decent person etc etc. You get the idea ;-). I think the bottom line is that people just LOVE winners! And until you're a winner, you're just another loser. The only difference between one loser and another loser is that some people stay losers cause they never work up the guts and effort to keep pushing when things get rough.

Also i would agree with the previous posters. Often canned routines and techniques without actually having your game in place on the inside as well will leave you open to emotional pain. I'm not saying that canned stuff is bad or that you shouldn't use it... no by all means use it, it's great stuff... But don't 'just' use that.

 

[Desdinova]

Good posts, everyone! I have nothing to add, but I would like to see the links that trash the seduction community.

Knowing your enemy is the largest step to conquering them.

 

[Syren]

http://www.student-direct.co.uk/?p=1959

You'll spot where my post above came from too!

 

[Cloud-uk]

Uh, what a mess of an article- poor girl. I love the way the only comments she's got consist of 'Umm, no. You've totally missed the point". Silly Rabbit.

 

[Syren]

In my experience the view she holds is quite common, and one the mainstream will try to paint the seduction community with if it can. I've heard it from a few women I know as well, it started to bug me, so I built a standard response I could just direct people to. Time saving

 

[xanderbaz]

However, the thing I HATE about the community are those snakes like DeAngelo, Jeffries and Mystery, who lure in vulnerable men with the promise of some magic solution. Just like cult leaders, they prey on the weak, claim to be their friend, to show them the light etc...and then squeeze all their money out of them. Their DVDs must cost less than $50 to produce and less than $3 to replicate, and yet they charge well over $100 for each one! It's a con and it annoys me that so many good guys are getting sucked in by it.

There is no quick fix. I've read DeAngelo's material, and I don't remember reading anything about a quick fix, though. I'm not backing up his decision to sell things that should be common knowledge for over $100 either. On the other hand, I don't think I'd ever be in a better position with the ladies hasn't it been for this forum and Mr. DeAngelo. Swinggcat's also very good. Ross Jeffries never took my fancy, though. That's my $0.02.

 

[I'm Joe Dirt]

DVD Costs are misleading. While yes, the DVD only costs $2 to replicate, it has other value besides being a physical disc you stick in your DVD player.

Nike shoes also cost pennies on the dollar to produce than what you pay for them, so do Gucci bags, and just about everything else. The value is in what these things mean to society or the benefits they can offer.

David DeAngelo and Mystery and all them have to price high for a few reasons:

1. From a marketing perspective, pricing high creates an aura of high value. If something is expensive it must be good is the common wisdom. That's why people who don't know anything about something when they shop usually buy the most expensive model if they want "the best".


2. It keeps many people out, and that's the way it should be! Lets say for the sake of argument that everyone in the industry lowered their price to $29 and every single guy on earth got a copy. That would give them so much exposure that eventually all the techniques would no longer work. While yes, the inner game stuff is invaluable and there is no way to spot it since its all inner stuff, any programs on techniques and methods would become easily identifyable and not work as well.

3. You have to look at these programs as having a higher value than a cheap DVD movie to you. You have to do this, because its true. Unlike a DVD movie which costs $19 at the store (and also only $2 to replicate!), you get a valuable lesson out of these kinds of program.

I know I certainly wouldn't be where I am without them. $300 is a BARGAIN for the amount of heartbreak, depression, and confusing caused by women this will save you.

If you look at prices for lessons at the community colleges in your area, you will see that even things like dancing lessons cost $60 a pop for a 1 or 2 hour lesson (which on a per hour basis is even more expensive than David DeAngelo's Advanced Dating Techniques seminar) - and don't offer nearly as much valuable knowledge packed into a convenient format.

So the price they charge really is the going rate for these kinds of supplemental non-academic lessons.

4. It builds commitment.

If you spent $20 or $30 on a DVD set from any of the pick up gurus you would be likely to give up on it before completing it or really getting much out of it. 6 hours is a long time to sit through, and I know people personally who have downloaded these seminars watched the first 45 minutes excited about what they were going to learn and then said "ill watch the rest later" and later never came.

This is FAR less likely to happen if you spend $300 on it though. If you spend $300 on something you WILL make the most of it to get your moneys worth. In a way paying such a steep price MAKES YOU stay with it and learn it.