Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Online dating has gotten worse since I last did it. You've been warned

trailerpark

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Robert28 said:
It's not getting dates that's the problem, I could go on plenty of them from Match. It's just that I'm not going to saddle myself going out with a different woman every single night. They have to be more than just hot for me to go out with them. Also, for those saying ask them out within the first email or two, what age range women does that work on? Because I'm 32 and I target women 21-29, they're less desperate to go out with you then say 35-45. I can easily pass for 25-26 and probably should have lied about my age and put 29 or so but they still respond. My gripe is it seems to be a LOT more work then it used to be. Girls are freaked out by the news and those Craigslist killing stories so theyre very picky it seems. I have plenty of pics up (not a single selfie either) of me with many different beautiful women that I either dated or personally know. This seems to work because it shows the women that hey if they're hanging out with him he must not be so bad. You still deal with the bs though. I'm also not seeing anymore hot women then were there 2 or so years ago. It's still about the same actually.
You have to ask yourself what types of females would be fearful of everyone being a creepy potential killer/stalker etc. Yet stay on online dating for years. Those are the same types who the hottest dudes are never seen as the creepy serial killers. Its fine if theyre attracted to hot guys its the compulsive ridiculous lying thats a part of the reasons they are garbage females.

If you have pics with hot females change them to pics of just you if youre hot. Females want to feel as if theyre "special" and there is no comp thats better looking than them if they hook up with you. Same as theyll hook up with a hot guy so long as those hot guys go along with a pretend future relationship. Then these same town mattresses will use zero accountability for being garbage themselves and blame it on all the men they went for saying: "where have all the good men gone?" You just have to LOL at it and leave them to their own foolish devices right where they belong or let some chump wife them up. Most men know the score. Because if these same females were any sort of quality or serious relationship potential they wouldn't need to use online dating let alone be on one if not several sites....for years on end.
 

Robert28

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trailerpark said:
You have to ask yourself what types of females would be fearful of everyone being a creepy potential killer/stalker etc. Yet stay on online dating for years. Those are the same types who the hottest dudes are never seen as the creepy serial killers. Its fine if theyre attracted to hot guys its the compulsive ridiculous lying thats a part of the reasons they are garbage females.

If you have pics with hot females change them to pics of just you if youre hot. Females want to feel as if theyre "special" and there is no comp thats better looking than them if they hook up with you. Same as theyll hook up with a hot guy so long as those hot guys go along with a pretend future relationship. Then these same town mattresses will use zero accountability for being garbage themselves and blame it on all the men they went for saying: "where have all the good men gone?" You just have to LOL at it and leave them to their own foolish devices right where they belong or let some chump wife them up. Most men know the score. Because if these same females were any sort of quality or serious relationship potential they wouldn't need to use online dating let alone be on one if not several sites....for years on end.
I can tell when a female is jerking my chain or doesn't intend to take the convo to a face to face meeting. Women will play their hand very early on, you just have to know how to play that particular game or else the house will take all your money. I don't waste time with women like this because the time I spend fooling with them I could be spending it on a girl that actually digs me and wants to meet me. I do have some pics up of just me, it's just that a lot of my pics are with women or women and guy friends. I don't take selfies, never have. I must be pretty decent as far as looks go because I get positive reactions from attractive women in real life. You can't compare real life to online dating though. It's like Earth and Mars. Yeah both are planets but life is totally different on both. I was just seeing if online dating had changed any or what it was like now, I'm on there more for curiosity than anything else.
 

the_stig

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racerhawk said:
I've been doing online dating for several years and that sounds about like it's always been. What I noticed as time went by and my age just passing 30 was there was a big drop off in the amount of younger girls displayed and girls who didn't have kids and would spontaneously meet up.

I'm glad you posted that - I had the same experience but wasn't sure if it was unique to me. From 25-29 I was killing it, but these last few years haven't been the same. Although I think that's just one of many factors stacked against us.
 

Instinct1978

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Espi said:
Yes agree. But understand that "getting them off the site" is an illusion you carry. They stay on the site, even while they fvuck other guys. I stay on despite seeing several different women. I'm never "off" the site.
That's exactly what I meant. I couldn't care less about how many plates they are spending as long as I am doing to same.

People in this thread make good points. Most women have the crazy bug, expecting different online would be simply foolish.

My simple plan


Send a message: "Hey there, Princess Snugglebear! How is this silly site treating you?"

Them "LMBO Its a little crazy! HBU?"

Me "Just being online pollutes my inbox from Shrek looking creatures. We should run and hide! Text me @ *** *** ****"

They will usually respond with their number or dust off. Either way, the next one is a search away so no reason to sweat it.
 

Robert28

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the_stig said:
I'm glad you posted that - I had the same experience but wasn't sure if it was unique to me. From 25-29 I was killing it, but these last few years haven't been the same. Although I think that's just one of many factors stacked against us.
Lie about your age. If you're 31, put 28 or 29.
 

Yewki

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Espi said:
Likely every women you guys know is online or thinking about going online. You can accept that as a fact or continue acting like you're gonna find some wholesome unjaded un-fvucked innocent chick.
I don't buy this. I think there is a significant connection between low quality and OLD.

Why? On those sites you're more likely to run into the women who have been lingering there long term. You gotta ask why these people still linger aorund. The answer is they are the ones who are significantly more likely to be low qualiy crazies. Conversely, the ones who dabble in it briefly then quit, while they contribute to the statistic of women who have used OLD at some point, you're not likely to see them on there anymore... because they used it briefly, by comparison. They quit sooner probably because they're more sane and/or don't actually need OLD... ether way these are generally higher quality ones. But again, you're less likely to find them there anymore.

The result is a cesspool of trash, as the lower quality ones linger and accumulate.

Not to menton, there's still a significant percentage of women who have never used OLD.

What does this all mean? It means if you meet a girl through OLD as compared to in person (real life), she's a lot more likely to be garbage.
 

Obsidian

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^

Yeah, that is a good point. I think it's laughable when I see the same good-looking, twenties-age girls on there for months or years. It shows that they aren't very serious about the process.
 

trailerpark

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Yewki said:
I don't buy this. I think there is a significant connection between low quality and OLD.

Why? On those sites you're more likely to run into the women who have been lingering there long term. You gotta ask why these people still linger aorund. The answer is they are the ones who are significantly more likely to be low qualiy crazies. Conversely, the ones who dabble in it briefly then quit, while they contribute to the statistic of women who have used OLD at some point, you're not likely to see them on there anymore... because they used it briefly, by comparison. They quit sooner probably because they're more sane and/or don't actually need OLD... ether way these are generally higher quality ones. But again, you're less likely to find them there anymore.

The result is a cesspool of trash, as the lower quality ones linger and accumulate.

Not to menton, there's still a significant percentage of women who have never used OLD.

What does this all mean? It means if you meet a girl through OLD as compared to in person (real life), she's a lot more likely to be garbage.
Spot on. +1 reps. Of course if those same females were asked they'd pin the blame on the "losers" they chose to date and yet still stay.

You'll see them "complaining" about shirtless guys, players, cheaters, "not wanting" ONS, "trying the site again"..for X amount of times, getting perverted messages, getting pics of guys junk, yet these are the same females posing on their beds, in bikinis, pushing out their cleavage, sexting their n00ds, t1t shots, underwear poses to dudes and WILLINGLY staying on the same site for YEARS.

Any free site especially is a garbage and whacko magnet.

These females are trying to "fool" the same six pack sporting hot dudes into being clueless enough to buy their laughable nonsense. No one's buying it. And the same dudes know if she sending pics to him. She's sending them to other dudes or has who looks just like him. The smart dudes pretend to just like these chicks want and then pump and dump them.

If you can get chicks offline go for it. But never take them seriously. The odds are HIGHLY stacked against any guy to find quality on OLD. Even the dudes who rack up chicks on there.

Unintentionally these chicks are doing you a favor by not responding or you not getting involved with them. Let someone else be their savior. No joke.
 

Robert28

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Espi said:
I suggest creating a new profile. Start from a clean slate. New username, new written profile featuring three to four sentences max. Feature about 6 photos, then, if you really want to keep the one of you with the hot chick, then feature it at the last photo image. On match.com, you can customize the photo sequence. I have one of me shirtless, & I put it toward the end. Photos like the one you described and shirtless photos and any other photos that can be judged as being vain by viewers can potentially backfire on you, because it might look like you're trying too hard. But, my gut feeling is to eliminate that photo all together.
I just signed up 2 weeks ago, you mean I already have to create a new profile and everything??? D@mn, my job isn't THIS much work.lol As for the 3-4 sentences for a profile, I have that. I'm being beaten over the head for it and being accused of not giving any info. Matter of fact, here's a reply I got from a girl just this morning.

"Well I actually read profiles and don't know anything about you other than you try to joke and maybe sarcastic. I oddly get a whole lot out of reading them. Can tell how serious they are, their confidence level, how passionate they are about their career, if they are educated, how their personality is- got nothing from you on yours. Don't really have time to go back and forth messaging to find out I'm not interested. That's why I'm on here in the first place."

Now, here's my profile that so many women claim isn't informative or sucks or doesn't allow them to get to know me.lol

Everyone knows that it doesn't matter what you write in these, as long as she likes your pictures. Chemistry doesn’t come from an “about me” box. So, lets go eat some good food somewhere and laugh about how we're going to come up with a lie to tell our friends and family about how we "met"

As for my pics, I have 8 and only 5 are with other girls and/or a group of friends. My main pic of me and one of the girls is my most recent pic(taken 2 weeks ago) and girls always complain about recent pics, so mines recent. The girl and I aren't posing like we are a couple or anything like that, it's actually a fun looking pic. If the girls on this site can have a pic of a beer or chugging liquor in most of their photos with guys in them and the caption of "my friends" then wth can't I have pics with girls? At least my pics make me look active and don't make me appear like I need to go to an AA meeting.
 

Robert28

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Espi said:
Im not sure which site youre on. Match.com you can change the username. The free sites just delete it altogether and load new pics. Refardless of the site, its not a big deal to change it. It can only benefit you. A new look does wonders.

My opinion: your written profile sounds bias with a touch of bitter and cynicism. 3-4 sentences max. Be purposefully generic and vanilla.

5 out of 8 pics with chicks is in my opinion ridiculous. Delete em and stick to ones of you only. Maybe a shirtless one. Maybe a gym one. The majority can just be ordinary photos of you smiling.

Ive read your posts on here for awhile and i know your game is solid. Your online game will likely improve if you take my suggestions and remove the cynicism about online dating.
Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I have a hard time separating real-life game from online game. In person women flock to my personality and I've had many admit they felt "safe with me"(whatever that means). When it comes to online dating I somehow come across as bitter or cynical with no personality. I'll look to see what pics I have of just me but I'm sure they aren't recent as the ones I currently have up (all are this year or last summer).
 

goodasitgets

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Robert28 said:
Don't really have time to go back and forth messaging to find out I'm not interested.
That was the whole point of it. She wasn't interested. If she was, she would want to get to know you no matter what you have written, not blow you off.




Robert28 said:
Now, here's my profile that so many women claim isn't informative or sucks or doesn't allow them to get to know me.lol

Everyone knows that it doesn't matter what you write in these, as long as she likes your pictures. Chemistry doesn’t come from an “about me” box. So, lets go eat some good food somewhere and laugh about how we're going to come up with a lie to tell our friends and family about how we "met"
Most chicks write the same on their profile or post bullsh1t quotes. Just add a bit more information like what you're looking for etc. I can't tell you how many times chicks didn't even read my profile asking questions that were already answered in my bio.


Robert28 said:
girls always complain about recent pics, so mines recent.
Are they complaining about yours? Recent pics are the best but girls will always complain anything. LOL
 

Obsidian

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So far, I have decided that most girls are just on those websites because they are unfriendly, or lack social skills. I had one chick block me because I teased her about her job ("Mental Specialist" or something) by asking her if she was like Professor Xavier from the X-Men.

Or here is another recent example:
---------------
OBSIDIAN: I don't know if we're a match because your profile is kind of scarce, but you are welcome to message me if you desire.

CUTE GIRL: We are somewhat of a match based off of your profile lol. How are you?

OBSIDIAN: Doing well. Kinda taking it easy today. ;) What all kinds of stuff do you usually like to do for fun?

[RADIO SILENCE]
---------------

And before you get onto me for not asking her out on the very first message, I have tried that a bunch and it hasn't worked real well so far. (I think that we go after different types of girls, Espi.) Also, some of these girls post so little info on their profiles that I'm unsure about whether I want to waste time meeting them until I learn more. Anyway, Black Dragon suggests to ask them out within three rounds of messaging so right now that is my goal.

Even the one chick that I've picked up so far from OKCupid is pretty good-looking and obviously likes me, but she seems to have the hardest time making conversation and apparently doesn't have many friends.

All these girls are just socially immature. That's why they need cyberspace to pick up men.
 

dasein

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IME with OLD in big cities (and 90% of ALL women EVERYWHERE doing whatever kind of dating or social life), most women are looking for the beta whale (a wealthy, good looking enough guy they can manipulate into the white wedding and life of leisure no more than ten-fifteen years older than them), and willing to f some hot guys while they do it. They are willing to f hot guys after a "date" but going out normally dateless, getting loaded and a ONS, endless f-buddies, hurts their ego and has taken a toll on the all-important "self esteem," despite most of them are still doing that or have done lots of ONS and f-buddy behavior in the past. This explains why women who aren't necessarily psycho do the OLD thing; when they say "tired of the bar scene" what they mean is "tired of the pounding my ego is taking from getting drunk and ONS...I'm going to keep doing what I want when I want, not going to alter my behavior one tiny bit because that is what a rational adult moral agent would do... and I'm nowhere near that, just would appreciate some kind of quid pro quo in the form of a 'date' before doing it."

If you aren't whale or hot guy, or can't play one on TV, then you are not going to do well OLD.

So you have to decide which aspect you are more likely to pull off. Professional with degrees from good schools? good looking enough? tall enough? wealthy family? high powered social set? or don't have those things but can act as if you do without outright lying? You can pull off the beta whale... for a time until they realize you aren't as beta and compliant as they thought or not as much of a whale catch. Hot guy they will f while waiting on the whale? Self-explanatory.

Other than these two roles, they will AW some, string you along and give you the run around, disrespect, bad behavior. I don't find a quality distinction at all between OLD women and others, mostly the realities are made more stark and in your face. Repeating for emphasis because I think I'm right on this, to me, there is no real distinction between women OLD and women "out there," it's just that the harsh realities are more up close and personal.

Well I'm the "whale" role, and so do well by playing that. Without spending much money on them, I am able to present a more polished, upper class demeanor without being stilted from the first contact. I have also been the "hot guy" in the past, but that takes lots of work and I'm getting older lol. If anyone is interested, can flesh out more on how to present a "better than you without being an arrogant ahole about it" demeanor that women flock to like flies to honey in pursuit of that whale they all want to settle down with for a lifetime, to use and abuse at their whim. It's great for about three months until they figure out that even if you do have money, you aren't giving it away, and you aren't nearly as compliant with their agenda as they fooled themselves into believing. But that's fine because you are tired of f-ing them by then anyway.

OLD works great, you just have to understand the tool as a tool, not a substitute for social skills, understand women's susceptibility to theater (ffs they PAINT THEIR FACES EVERY DAY!) and sell what they are willing to buy into.
 

dasein

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Someone asked for more specifics via pm, so will post some. Not just the basics (good pics, etc) that have been hashed and rehashed here.

1. Only write women who are age and geography realistic who have been on the site within the last few days. I usually don't message unless they have been active within 48 hours. Don't waste time messaging 19 y.o.s across the country if you are 40+. You would think this would go without saying, but every single one of my friends who have asked for OLD help have done this exact thing and then whine about it "OLD SUCKS, OLD DOESN'T WORK, YOU ARE JUST GOOD WITH WORDS AND I'M NOT." No, -you- are wasting your time and energy on utterly remote possibilities. If you want to bang 20 yo a 40, you are going to have to meet them out, OLD isn't good for that.

2. Every sentence of your profile (and it should be short, not overly clever, not sarcastic, not talking about the site...) should sell a date with you subtly as if they are missing out on some great thing if they just ignore your message, and that going on a date is no big deal. Don't fall into the trap of "here's who I am, what I want, bladebla." All noise they don't care about. They only care about themselves and what they want in the moment. "I enjoy meeting new people, and not into extended internet penpal things. Be ready to go out and have some fun and we will." (what would James Bond or Brad Pitt say in an OLD profile?) "Have you been to XYZ place/event/concert/festival this year? It was a blast last year and coming up soon. They have really done lots with it." "Have you had the tapas at ABC restaurant or heard the house band at blabla?" Always be engaging them in questions that lead to a reply to your message or they are going to miss the cool date. It's about selling a date, not Mr. Right or a relationship.

3. If you are going to play the beta whale, look for women with social cues in their profile. They will have a degree, a decent job. Know a trendy restaurant and a gallery or trendy area in their zip code close to them. In the first message, "I like to go check out what they are showing at blah and then have martinis at bleh, you into that sort of thing?" No guy with money and options is going to be mashing on random chicks OLD telling them how hot they are, how he likes their profile, they are going to be sizing up possible options to include in their already "fabulous" social life, and that's the image you want to portray. You are on there looking for cool new women to date, not to supplicate to some random unknowns, but to find information. They respond very well to this if phrased correctly.

4. Three point short first message, two relations to their profile other than "DER I LIKE THAT TOO!! DER WE HAVE LOTS IN COMMON" Subtle, ask questions. One joke about something. No physical comments at all. A killer date setup question is "Do they still have a cool bleh at blah in your area? I heard it went downhill some and haven't been back in awhile."

5. When they reply, write back short, respond briefly to what they say, and ask for their phone number. They have been primed that you will by your profile, so are expecting to be called and asked out. You have LED them to expect this, and so when the profile and first message is right, it blows past all that lookie lou, "get to know you" nonsense and right to the face to face. "Let's talk on the phone and maybe make some plans, send me your phone number, or if you are more comfortable calling me, here's mine..." I have a 100% success rate in getting the phone number in the second Email and a 100% success rate in getting a date on the first call if I want one. People who claim they just get put off or women won't give the number early aren't doing it right.

Of course this all hinges on your projecting an affluent, mature NORMAL GUY ADULT image in your profile and pictures. No cheesy house and car pics, but pics of you in social situations and decent clothes that look upper or upper middle class, no keg party college pics, no funny pet pics, no "zany" pics. They can get away with that as a woman, you can't.

6. On the first call, it's going to be no longer than ten minutes. You are going to vet them by voice, be light funny carefree and then ask them out. "Ive been wanting that duck appetizer they have over at bladebla, want to go check out XYZ gallery and then have a drink there?" If they are used to getting coffee meets, they will jump at this. You are going to only spend $10 more money than a coffee date, and that's fine with them, they will be bragging to their GFs who went to Starbucks last night as if you had spent $200 on them. It's easy for them because it's close to them by design but don't mention this. I have never been stood up doing this kind of date, and rarely spent more than $50, that much only when I'm sure I'll be getting laid on the next date if not that one. Also, I never suggest doing something I don't like to do anyway. I take the time to know staff when I go in a restaurant, especially at trendy places where women tend to live. Remember the bartenders' names. It will get you laid, every $20 you spend on bartenders is x10 $$ spent on buying drinks for women in getting you laid effect, ESPECIALLY hot but classy female bartenders. As an aside, never hit on hot bartenders in classy places. They are far too valuable as SMV. Treat them kindly, respectfully and warmly, good tips, and they will get you laid when you bring a date in there. All you have to do is go to the bathroom and leave them alone for a second to "chat."

That's enough for now, smart guys will be able to piece together that there's lots of theater in being good at OLD. It doesn't take one more minute, bit of effort or dollar to create something that attracts women to going on a date with you than the standard "I like your pics, I do that too, we have lots in common" stuff. You want to create urgency and meet them fast, then it becomes a matter of your face to face game. That's how you use the OLD tool to maximum effect. Use it like a matchmaking service and you are just another schmo in a pile. Use it to sell cool, easy dates and your results should increase. Good luck.
 
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Obsidian

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Well, I kinda of think I've overfished for the time being anyway. Maybe I'll try again in a few weeks with these new tips.
 

Yewki

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Obsidian said:
So far, I have decided that most girls are just on those websites because they are unfriendly, or lack social skills. I had one chick block me because I teased her about her job ("Mental Specialist" or something) by asking her if she was like Professor Xavier from the X-Men.
Nice one, that made me legit laugh. Yeah if someone can't appreciate your humor they're not worth your time.

Obsidian said:
OBSIDIAN: I don't know if we're a match because your profile is kind of scarce, but you are welcome to message me if you desire.

CUTE GIRL: We are somewhat of a match based off of your profile lol. How are you?

OBSIDIAN: Doing well. Kinda taking it easy today. ;) What all kinds of stuff do you usually like to do for fun?

[RADIO SILENCE]
The main problem there was your game. Your last message was very bad. Too open ended and very boring. Some quick tips 1) Don't talk about your day at all other than to maybe say "Good", 2) Never under any circumstance ask, "What kinds of stuff do you usually like to do for fun?" ... LOL
 

Obsidian

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Well, I only do that if the chick lists virtually nothing on her profile (or "Just ask") and I'm looking for commonalities. But I guess I could stop.
 

jurry

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Solid advice there dasein gona revise my profile a bit around those lines..
 

Bokanovsky

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dasein said:
"Ive been wanting that duck appetizer they have over at bladebla, want to go check out XYZ gallery and then have a drink there?" If they are used to getting coffee meets, they will jump at this. You are going to only spend $10 more money than a coffee date, and that's fine with them, they will be bragging to their GFs who went to Starbucks last night as if you had spent $200 on them.
I don't know where you live that a trip to an arts gallery, drinks for two and "duck appetizer" cost $10. Must be nice. I do agree though that coffee dates are a bad choice if you're trying to project the "whale" image.

Personally, I invite them for drinks. Normally, if it's the first date, most normal girls will follow etiquette and order just one drink. If a girl starts ordering multiple drinks and food, you know you've got yourself a serial dater who goes on dates fro free drinks and food (another clue is if they tell you that it's their first online date). Those girls will also typically go to the bathroom when the cheque is about to arrive. Most guys will be too embarrassed and will just pay the bill. What I usually do is tell the waiter to come back in a few minutes (they will understand). Then, when the bill arrives, just let it sit there and be in no hurry to pick it up.
 

Obsidian

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Honestly, I'm not real keen on alcohol for a first date. But I did try it your way, sending out a good number of first date proposals for drinks (or coffee if the girl doesn't look like a drinker) in first messages. Got no takers. I've tried different styles.

I've about decided that I don't have much time for additional girls at the moment, anyway. Am gonna put this OLD stuff on the back burner for the moment.
 
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