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MoreThanSmooth

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"The UK's Toughest Debt Collector" - Shaun Smith, a burly ex-con who used to be an enforcer for a Liverpool crime family and was imprisoned 5 years on weapons charges. He now runs a gym and a legitimate debt collection business.

"Alpha male" is thrown around a lot on this forum, but this guy...I think in terms of sheer physicality and balls he's probably one of the most "alpha" men I've ever seen. Skip to 19:20 to see him deal with two men selling steroids in his gym. Two big, burly tough guys and he just literally b*tch slaps them and tells them to stop f*cking him around!

It perhaps sounds a little wrong, but I largely felt admiration for him over the course of this documentary. He has a paternal attitude towards the men boxing at his gym, he seems to treat weaker people with respect (unless they take the p*ss) and he also has enough morals to recognise when people cross an ethical line rather than being a total psycho. He tells a horrifying story about two men who r*ped a man to remind him of his debt, and he seems genuinely sickened by it himself.

An interesting watch.
 

Who Dares Win

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Well it doesnt take much to break other men when you are bigger than them, used to a criminal life style and have nothing to lose.

Not to diminish his "credits" but if this guy was short and skinny, his life path would be probably much different.

Hardly someone can be a debt collector without enough size to intimidate and a reputation of violence know to all.

Agree on his "moral" he seems like a guy with a genuine code of honor rather than a thug who takes whatever he wants with no respect or moral.
 

logicallefty

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I agree that this guy seems legit now and it probably an all out good man. Now.. But I also agree with @Who Dares Win that if he were short and skinny and didn't LOOK the part he probably couldn't play the part. Or what if he were 5'2, 400lbs?
 

MoreThanSmooth

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Well, even if he was short I imagine he wouldn’t be skinny - his rough upbringing and interest in fitness would have been the same, so he likely would have still hit the gym and got heavyset.

I think as he says in the beginning, the presence he radiates is a mind set. People just know he is willing to do things others won’t and he won’t be a pushover if you treat him poorly. The guy he slaps about is actually more muscular than he is and could probably put up a good fight but he doesn’t due to the dude’s sheer presence.
 

zekko

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I think as he says in the beginning, the presence he radiates is a mind set. People just know he is willing to do things others won’t and he won’t be a pushover if you treat him poorly. The guy he slaps about is actually more muscular than he is and could probably put up a good fight but he doesn’t due to the dude’s sheer presence.
I just watched the scene that you recommended. It's kind of funny that his buddy jumps in to throw in a punch or two. He's almost acting like a mafia boss here, extorting money from the guy: "If you're going to sell drugs in my gym, I want a cut, or I'll beat the crap out of you by the end of the day". He's not upset that the guy is selling the drugs, he's mad because he's not getting a cut. And he rationalizes it by saying he has bills to pay.

I don't know, I'm sure you can learn something from almost anyone, but I'm not so sure I see this guy as a role model.
 

MoreThanSmooth

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I just watched the scene that you recommended. It's kind of funny that his buddy jumps in to throw in a punch or two. He's almost acting like a mafia boss here, extorting money from the guy: "If you're going to sell drugs in my gym, I want a cut, or I'll beat the crap out of you by the end of the day". He's not upset that the guy is selling the drugs, he's mad because he's not getting a cut. And he rationalizes it by saying he has bills to pay.

I don't know, I'm sure you can learn something from almost anyone, but I'm not so sure I see this guy as a role model.
I bought his autobiography cheap last night, read it this morning and I must say, he's still in a very legally/ethically grey area with his operations.

A lot of his business is basically rescuing people from loan sharks and the like - this would seem noble enough, but often his success is because he usually knows the criminals involved and his name strikes fear into them. He then acts as a middleman for a client trading off his past notoriety.

Most of the debts he collects are from people who are scum, which is admirable. But on the less positive side, he also resolves them with what is basically outright theft or intimidation. In one case he resolved a debt by stealing construction equipment worth £150,000...because he knew that it was already stolen from another site and so the debtor would not go to the police.

In another case he collects a debt off a drug dealer by stealing his keys, taking the car and also casually stealing his drugs to sell them to a fence. Sketchy as f**k!

So yeah, I must admit he's a complicated man...but he does have a respectable frame and some fair core ideals. In one case, he saved an innocent man from threatening harassment from the IRA...which took serious balls.

I'd say the clip is one of his less shady displays of force. He takes a cut from the drug sales in the clip - however, he also tells them to never do it again in his gym or be prepared for serious consequences. So it's more of a principled punishment than a "Give me £1k a month". The money is a token of their respect - and he's extorting that on a one time basis as a "stop doing this now" instead of f*cking their lives up with a criminal conviction I guess.

The guy who throws the punch is scum though - 10 mins later at the end of the documentary, Shaun says he was caught selling roids shortly after that clip and had been doing so far longer than the other 2 men. He flees as a result and disappears, despite being a long term "friend".

I dunno...impressive masculinity, complicated morality, I think it's fair to say ;)
 

zekko

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Makes for a good story at least.
 
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