On the possibility of interacting with a woman with BPD

[macagent]

Interesting discussion really. While I think the labels are probably being tossed around a little freely, there is a good chance based on the activities and histories of the members here, that we do indeed have a higher interaction/discovery rate with actual BPD females. And perhaps, many of these women have just picked-up some behaviors from those BPDs around them?

For me, the heart of the discussion speaks to how science, and especially psychology, are deified in our culture. Whatever those smart people say must be the truth...right? While common sense and actual observation are poo-poo'd in preference to manipulated and contrived data. We have all witnessed enough scientific studies in our lifetime which have been "fixed", to know that the numbers can be made to say whatever the researcher wants them too. Just look at the big-pharma companies for this illustration. On the other hand, community corroborated data, based on first-hand observation, is based on real-life experience, common sense, and ongoing peer review. While many scientific studies are so homogenized, they bear little resemblance to what is actually happening in the world.

An example of the difference between diagnosed numbers and actual numbers can be seen in the official homeless numbers reported by the states. By most estimates the actual number of homeless is easily 3-5x the amount reported. Mostly because these people are off the map, and are not receiving any social services where they can be tracked. Myself included... and yet, the "scientific process" completely disregards these other data, because it simply doesn't fit within their research model.

Science is a good starting point, and the hard sciences certainly have yielded many benefits to our society, but we have lifted all science to a god-like level in our society, and we must also temper it by our common sense, our morality, and our humanity.

 

[Boilermaker]

Interesting discussion really. While I think the labels are probably being tossed around a little freely, there is a good chance based on the activities and histories of the members here, that we do indeed have a higher interaction/discovery rate with actual BPD females. And perhaps, many of these women have just picked-up some behaviors from those BPDs around them?

For me, the heart of the discussion speaks to how science, and especially psychology, are deified in our culture. Whatever those smart people say must be the truth...right? While common sense and actual observation are poo-poo'd in preference to manipulated and contrived data. We have all witnessed enough scientific studies in our lifetime which have been "fixed", to know that the numbers can be made to say whatever the researcher wants them too. Just look at the big-pharma companies for this illustration. On the other hand, community corroborated data, based on first-hand observation, is based on real-life experience, common sense, and ongoing peer review. While many scientific studies are so homogenized, they bear little resemblance to what is actually happening in the world.

An example of the difference between diagnosed numbers and actual numbers can be seen in the official homeless numbers reported by the states. By most estimates the actual number of homeless is easily 3-5x the amount reported. Mostly because these people are off the map, and are not receiving any social services where they can be tracked. Myself included... and yet, the "scientific process" completely disregards these other data, because it simply doesn't fit within their research model.

Science is a good starting point, and the hard sciences certainly have yielded many benefits to our society, but we have lifted all science to a god-like level in our society, and we must also temper it by our common sense, our morality, and our humanity.

I fully agree with your and Findog's points. Especially on Findog's as to how we are to "react" if we were in an unhealthy relationship. And yours on how we should interpret what we call science, or data and so on.

Exactly as you say: Science is a good starting point. And just as anything else it needs to be doubted and questioned. Science is not unanimously honest or clean either. But it is beyond a single man's perception, it is a generalized result by definition. This makes it more reliable, and a better starting point. I work in hard science and here I might be making the mistake of taking these findings too seriously. Still, I believe ( disagreeing with unlce Scara here) that psychiatry (the applied science of psychology in a sense) is not a pseudo-science, albeit not being as convincing as, say, physics.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Virtually all women display mild symptoms of BPD when under stress (they do not actually have BPD, rather, they display similar, milder symptoms of it). They are literally slaves to their emotion. However, there is a litmus test for the existence of the condition:

She departs from reality when in a conflict. Her emotions (fears, suspicions, speculations, everything else) actually become hard reality to her and she cannot be reasoned with and brought back until enough time apart passes.

Also, in conflict, she visibly and alarmingly turns in to a 12 year old girl right in front of your eyes. She literally seems to physiologically shape-shift as you're looking at her.

That, my friends, is BPD.

Ha, first time I've ever quoted myself...

The fact is that the term "BPD" has become a useful term for us in the community to identify women who are so emotionally disturbed that they are extraordinarily dangerous.

They do indeed exhibit amazingly similar symptoms. I have seen that there is an approximately 90% or greater overlap of symptoms and behaviors. The way they fit the mold and stick to the script is uncanny.

I have to play the maturity card here. When you young-uns get older and have a lot more experience and interactions under your belts, you will find that there are more of these women than meets the eye walking all around you.

For starters, it's a huge secret. Their husbands will not, in any way, talk about their wife's horrific behavior. They suffer in silent misery as worker drones. It is something that is just not discussed.

Secondly, these women appear to be the epitome of normal on the outside. In fact, they appear to have it together far more than the average woman. You can befriend them and never even know they have BPD.

The disease fully deploys only when they get involved in a serious relationship with a man. The man is already in love, and discovers that he is involved with a monster, after several months of making excuses for her behavior. He is trapped by a vampire who is sucking his very spirit out of him.

To summarize, this is a largely invisible disorder. I thank God that I have developed a sense of the disorder existing within a woman before getting involved with her. To the alert and aware man, the subtle signs are there.

 

[The_411]

The number of people with BPD is hard to determine for the simple reason that one of the hallmarks of the disorder is denial that there is something wrong which is ingrained in one's behavior pattern.

I find that 1 in 33,000 figure to be horribly inaccurate. That figure would suggest that there are only 10,000 people with BPD in North America? Yet BPDfamily.com estimates that there are 17.9 million in North America. Certainly, there are some issues with the numbers you presented, Boilermaker.

Like others I have mentioned I too have several books on the subject of BPD.
I had a 2+ year relationship with a woman who I felt was comorbid, HPD and BPD.

Now to be fair yes people rush to judgement claiming BPD, I certainly don't doubt that and yes we all manifest symptoms of BPD at various times. The differientiating factor is that people with BPD constantly manifest 5 of 9 or more of the idenified symptoms at one time.

As a result of my experience with my ex I was in an outpatient psych program where I had a daily group and in that group of 18 people, 8 had BPD along with other co-morbid cluster B personality disorders.

I was suffering from PTSD from my relationship with my BPD ex.

Ultimately the diagnosis doesn't matter it's the bad behavior that should never be tolerated. In my case as someone with a thirst for knowledge I had to better understand what had happened to me so I sought out books about BPD after stumbling across the DSM IV criteria trying to understand my ex girlfriends behavior which at times was so unbelievable that it was like a bad dream/nightmare.

Me tolerating her bad behavior is completely on me and I accept that, but that doesn't dminish that fact that ehr behavior when explained to others was intensely disturbing.

The key is that people need to be aware of the cluster B disorders so they can a) figure out why they are attracting such a person b) why they tolerate their behavior c) know to avoid such people d) address their own issues that contribute to getting involed with such a person.

 

[Die Hard]

..Another self-deluded resident psychiatrist. OK, brother relax, whatever you say.

Hah! Going ad hominem right away and spending ZERO words on a constructive response to the content of my post. Big fail...

Oh please, no. Not you. You will call every one of those `b!tches` something and we won't know what to do.

Ummmm, I don't see how me creating an extensive archive of discussions between OTHER members has anything to do with me "calling every one of those 'b!tches' something etc." Even MORE fail, dude...

 

[happygilmore]

I want to talk about the possibility of encountering women with BPD, because our forum members seem to have a special talent of digging them out although it appears extremely unlikely to encounter even a "single" woman with a BPD, during the course of one's lifetime.



Ok, NOW consider the fact that there are MANY that are UNDIAGNOSED because wait...don't they have to go ON THEIR OWN and accept that fact that there may be something wrong? How many actually do go through with it, without calling the therepist a "quack" or just giving up? Remember they are very stubborn and lack the ability to rationalize what they do, and are often oblivous to their actions due to extreme selfishness. It's because BY THE TIME THEY REALIZE SOMETHING IS WRONG, IT IS AT A MUCH LATER AGE. Have you actually experienced a Cluster B for yourself?

Ok, i read the whole thread. Don't even bother responding to me. Danger has already shut you down completely, along with these last few posts. I feel the need to capitalize and bold because you were blatantly IGNORING what Danger was trying to get across to you. Honestly, experience one of these girls for yourself, just ONCE in your life.

Oh, and my father is one of the top psychiatrists in the country. Harvard med, the whole deal. He's seen it all. Keep googling links and trusting some bullsht data. Jackass.

 

[highSpeed]

happygilmore, dude you're right on. I was married to a full on, diagnosed bi-polar and borderline. It was total hell, she wasn't diagnosed until she was 32. They totally slip through the cracks all the time. Those statistics are way, way, way, way too low. Mine went to therapists on several ocassions through our years together and never usually went back for just the reasons that you mention.

You can never, I repeat, never interact with a b cluster in any meaningful way. That's a game you just can't win. It may go well for awhile but it will never end well for the other person. I still struggle with some of the bs that mine put me through and its a couple of years later.

Quick thought on this though, I'm wondering if the majority of b clusters are women?

 

[happygilmore]

How long were you married to her Alex?

Well I'm not sure if Cluster Bs are mostly women because it's easier for them to latch on to a new guy right away, or if it's just statistics from those treated. But yeah a lot of guys probably won't say no to sex from a hot girl in distress...especially men with the "savoir complex" (I'll admit I share some savoir traits myself). Then they continue to tell their life story in the first five minutes....the savoir ignores all red flags...and so it begins...

 

[happygilmore]

sorry i meant highspeed, not alex...was looking at other forum

 

[SBW]

Quick thought on this though, I'm wondering if the majority of b clusters are women?

This may be because the conditions/major indicators are as yet far better recognised and understod in women?

BPD in men IMO often demonstrates in ways that are more accepted/recognised/tolerated as somewhat more "normal" in men or are regarded as a number of different problems.

Its only when you add them up that a bigger, more decidedly BPD-like picture can emerge.

I'd also hazzard a guess that men are less likely to seek treatment for it, other than by escaping into/excusing it via other forms of self destructive behaviour?

 

[5string]

highspeed

I believe the vast majority of BPD's are women. Why? This disorder is one born of a lousy abusive childhood. Wondering why they are mostly women? Because most have been sexually, emotionally and physically abused by caregivers and immediate family members. It affects momen much more than men because women are much more emotional. Makes sense huh? And get this.....I think that a young girl who is feminine and very attractive is much more likely to be abused, especially sexually. This might explain my other belief that bpd chicks for the most part are very attractive and uber sexy. They become so detached emotionally from relationships that the ones they do have are very short lived and numerous. Therefore most appear to be very promiscuous by nature. They miss the love and attention they never had, and get their fix by going from one guy to the next. This might explain why so many guys have encountered one or more bpd's. One bpd chick may go though 50-100 guys and fvck them up. Who knows.

 

[5string]

To clarify,

There are many DSM-IV categories of Personality Disorders. The four most common are listed below.

The Men are more likely to be

1. Narcissistic
2. Anti-social

Women are more likely to be

1. Borderline
2. Histrionic

http://bpd.about.com/od/relatedconditions/a/clusterB.htm

I'm Anti-AFC

 

[highSpeed]

Happygilmore, I was married to mine for 10 grueling years, probably about 8 more than I should have. But I was playing the savior, lost frame (not sure if you can ever control the frame with a b series though) and try to hold onto some morals in this world. Put that combination together and you have the recipe for what is probably not much better than 10 years in a turkish prison. The ups, downs, drama were a constant and made my life a nightmare. I was not going to leave my daughter with that monster though, thank god she lives with me fulltime.

5string, I would agree that these types of environments tend to affect the woman more than it would a man. I think you can take a girl, put her in a terrible household and do the same thing with a boy and almost to a time, the boy will come out of it better than the girl. Women, by their very nature, will internalize it more than the boy will.

I think the real key here is knowing how to spot one early on and run like hell, not try to figure out how to interact with one. The pain will certainly outweigh any pleasure you might get. That's like trying to play 52 pick up with a grenade, its going to go off in your hand at some point.