No hope for some AFC's

[Knight's Cross]

On 3 separate occasions I witnessed the female,"pull cookie to get ring" manipulation trick this week. I was disheartended to see it, but glad I was able to identify it easily:

Case 1: My scheduler/ secretary, she's a 26YO female, decent looking, nice southern girl. She had been dating the same guy for a couple of years. I noticed that she had gone quiet as to comments about boyfriend a few weeks ago. Then I overheard her tell a coworker that she and boyfriend,"had a talk". Want to bet what issue she pushed? Because 2 days later she showed up to work with an engagement ring on her finger. All happy and everything right in the world.

Case 2: One of my employees, lets call him Steve. Well Steve is a ex-military guy, that works for my team. He's got a little bit of belly at 40, but is decent looking. He's been dating a local gal for a few years. Well he just bought a house and was moving from an apartment to new place. She had apparently been living with him, and when the move came, she put her foot down and told him that she wouldn't move in with him unless.....you guessed it, she had a ring on her finger. So again, another AFC rushes to the diamond store for a womans demands. When he told me he was getting married, he literally described it as if it was,"the right thing to do".

Case 3: One of our 24YO male interns, also buys rock for girlfriend. Now this ones got," I better marry her or I'll lose her to some other guy" written all over it. He came in and showed the girls in the office the ring, and was asking for their advice on wedding proposal. I had to walk away I was so disgusted by his whiny pitiful self.

In each case there was a part of me that wanted to reach out to these guys, and try to talk sense into them. Every case though I was reminded of
Law # 10 Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky. There was no hope in any case that I would get thru. They were so ingrained with the pattern. Brought me back to the reality that you can only show someone the path. Whether they take it, is entirely up to them. Some guys you shouldn't even bother showing the path. To them it wouldn't register. You'll know who they are the minute you hear them speak or see their behavior in action.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

KC think of it as triage. Save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying.

Unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work.

 

[ketostix]

So everyone that gets engaged is automatically an AFC? At least in Case 1 and 2 the women were the ones asking for the engagement. That's usually better than the guy demanding it from her and there's nothing given here saying these women are bad choices. In each case they had been dating for a few years and case 2 the guy's 40 years-old. I know marriage is a rotten deal but for some of the same reasons being single is kind of a rotten deal too. Child custody and support is where most guys really get screwed and being married or not has nothing to do with that.

I guess if your view is everyone that marries is an AFC that's one thing. But I don't see how the woman wanting to get married makes the guy an AFC. Being perpetually single isn't a perfect solution either.

 

[puma183]

The guy who caves into a woman's demands of marriage is an AFC by definition. Along with marriage comes her often unilateral move to quit working so she can play stay-at-home mom, decline in frequency of sex, using sex-as-a-weapon, killing his life-dreams and aspirations in favor of hers, and eventually unleashing the horrors of the Justice System upon the husband. None of these can be accomplished without the marriage, that only she demands.

This sacrificing yourself and your dreams, so someone else can have hers, is by defintion AFC*
http://a369.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/15/l_0451f5baf98bc4040693c291fb5a2230.jpg

*Note: This oh so noble sacrifice would have at least made a little sense if no-fault-divorce / no-fault-alimony didn't exist. But since they do exist, and since women seem to exercise them 70% of the time, then there is no point whatsoever for a man to make such a one-way sacrifice.

 

[puma183]

By the way, most of us are talking in theoretical outcomes here since as DJ's we have had the mental training to steer clear of dangers for the most part. To see a glimpse of reality for the uninitiated AFC, guys like the above mentioned employees of KC's ten years down the road, spend a few days reading the real life stories in this blog:
http://www.glennsacks.com/blog/

 

[ketostix]

The guy who caves into a woman's demands of marriage is an AFC by definition. Along with marriage comes her often unilateral move to quit working so she can play stay-at-home mom, decline in frequency of sex, using sex-as-a-weapon, killing his life-dreams and aspirations in favor of hers, and eventually unleashing the horrors of the Justice System upon the husband. None of these can be accomplished without the marriage, that only she demands.

This sacrificing yourself and your dreams, so someone else can have hers, is by defintion AFC*
http://a369.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/15/l_0451f5baf98bc4040693c291fb5a2230.jpg

*Note: This oh so noble sacrifice would have at least made a little sense if no-fault-divorce / no-fault-alimony didn't exist. But since they do exist, and since women seem to exercise them 70% of the time, then there is no point whatsoever for a man to make such a one-way sacrifice.

Fair enough but if a man saw his girl-friend as "marriage material" and would consider marrying her, but was just dragging his feet and need some convincing that's a different story. I mean would it be less AFC for the guy to hound the woman for marriage? All we know is in Case 1 and 2 the women pressured their BFs to get married. There's not enough evidence to say these women are in fact leading these guys around in other aspects.

Anyway I don't question that a majority of the time marriage is going to turn into a bad deal. But what I'm saying is you're screwed either way, single or married. Unless you want to have a near sexless and childless life.

 

[KontrollerX]

I can understand not wanting to do the hands on work of talking to these guys at length and listening to their sob stories and trying to break through their pvssified mentality so in times like that I would recommend if you are still feeling helpful to find out if they have internet access and if they say they do...

Do not invite them to this site as we have enough pvssies here as it is.

Instead get their email address and give them the link to the free Tom Leykis podcast and strongly suggest they start listening to the show.

Let Tom do the work for you.

That way you don't get infected by their depression and AFC ways yet you still get to help them so its a win.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Keto,
In case 1 and 2, both guys were pressured to,"do the right thing". As directed by girlfriend. In case 3 the guy is WAY too immature to be getting married. He has been brainwashed to believe he had better do it, or else some other guy is going to snatch up his girl. Which after meeting her, I don't think she is necessarily,"his girl".
Look, I totally respect marriage. It's a good thing in society,"as long as there is mutual and self respect on both sides". In all cases above, there was not. So how can their marriages work? In the case of my scheduler, she forced his hand when he was not ready. In case 2, again we see manipulation, and in case 3, our intern doesn't believe enough in himself for it to succeed.

KC

 

[Jesus]

He went to Jared's!

 

[Tazman]

I know marriage is a rotten deal but for some of the same reasons being single is kind of a rotten deal too.

You don't have to be married in order to not be single though, right? I'm not religious so marriage honestly means nothing to me, it's simply a legal title given to couples who qualify for it. There's always big money to be made in weddings and it's become very lucrative for women in general.

 

[ketostix]

You don't have to be married in order to not be single though, right? I'm not religious so marriage honestly means nothing to me, it's simply a legal title given to couples who qualify for it. There's always big money to be made in weddings and it's become very lucrative for women in general.

Right you don't have to be married to not be single but if a woman is one that would demand a big wedding and will be a b1tch in a marriage, she is also going to a b1tch to cohabitate with over time. You still face with the main obstacle of child custody/support. Being perpetually single has it's problems and it's not entirely realistic. Marriage/divorce problems is a symptom of a bigger problem. Like I said, either way you're basically screwed. Whatever happened to the custom of the bride's family paying for the wedding?

 

[poster_guy03]

Here's one for ya.....

AFC male: "Let's get married.... After all my parents like you, your parents like me, and I love you..... We'd be a great couple...."

Woman: (Inside her head) " What??, I can't believe he is saying this, what an idiot......"

I'm familiar with the guy, I know the woman very well..... What an AFC moron he is..... Thank god she had the sense to next him!

 

[Knight's Cross]

Guy03,
That's essentially what Case 3 is exhibiting. I'd try knocking some sense into him, but I believe it's too late. He's been raised to BELIEVE this is his destiny.
Again, I don't dislike the institution of marriage. It's the orchestration of how one builds the relationship and marriage. That's where I think these 3 guys have de-railed.

KC

 

[sodbuster]

Marriage isn't the problem, it's the female[modern] that is the problem. I'll just have a prenup before I do it again,so she has no financial motivation to want out;but, a good reason to stay.

 

[Nutz]

On 3 separate occasions I witnessed the female,"pull cookie to get ring" manipulation trick this week. I was disheartended to see it, but glad I was able to identify it easily:

Case 1: My scheduler/ secretary, she's a 26YO female, decent looking, nice southern girl. She had been dating the same guy for a couple of years. I noticed that she had gone quiet as to comments about boyfriend a few weeks ago. Then I overheard her tell a coworker that she and boyfriend,"had a talk". Want to bet what issue she pushed? Because 2 days later she showed up to work with an engagement ring on her finger. All happy and everything right in the world.

Case 2: One of my employees, lets call him Steve. Well Steve is a ex-military guy, that works for my team. He's got a little bit of belly at 40, but is decent looking. He's been dating a local gal for a few years. Well he just bought a house and was moving from an apartment to new place. She had apparently been living with him, and when the move came, she put her foot down and told him that she wouldn't move in with him unless.....you guessed it, she had a ring on her finger. So again, another AFC rushes to the diamond store for a womans demands. When he told me he was getting married, he literally described it as if it was,"the right thing to do".

Case 3: One of our 24YO male interns, also buys rock for girlfriend. Now this ones got," I better marry her or I'll lose her to some other guy" written all over it. He came in and showed the girls in the office the ring, and was asking for their advice on wedding proposal. I had to walk away I was so disgusted by his whiny pitiful self.

In each case there was a part of me that wanted to reach out to these guys, and try to talk sense into them. Every case though I was reminded of
Law # 10 Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky. There was no hope in any case that I would get thru. They were so ingrained with the pattern. Brought me back to the reality that you can only show someone the path. Whether they take it, is entirely up to them. Some guys you shouldn't even bother showing the path. To them it wouldn't register. You'll know who they are the minute you hear them speak or see their behavior in action.

I feel for you. My only advice is to start playing Tom Leykis in the office. He's got a plethora of podcasts to choose from to really nail down why marriage is so horrible for men these days, not to mention the risks they face. At a minimum, PRENUP shoudl be the word of the day.

 

[ElChoclo]

Here are 2 simple questions to ask of the woman.

1 Does she have assets which, net of all liabilities are equal to or greater than yours.

2 Will she still proceed with a cheap ring and a cheap wedding.

If the answer to either is no, then forget it. Even if the answer is yes to both, get a prenup you fool.

 

[azanon]

I'm not religious so marriage honestly means nothing to me, it's simply a legal title given to couples who qualify for it. There's always big money to be made in weddings and it's become very lucrative for women in general.

Now there's someone who's never done a 1040. Certainly not a joint one.
There's so many benefits to marriage, I'm not sure the sum total should be legal. Trust me, the gay community is well aware of the benefits of marriage. You don't hear them screaming?

I didn't realize you had to pay for a wedding to get married.

I'm not religious either, but I do like financial benefits.

Heck, let me just toss out just one of many marital benefits I enjoy: My wife is covered by my work health insurance policy for one reason..... because she's my wife. If she simply lived with me and she or I had to buy her a separate private, full health insurance policy, do you know how much that would cost? Price one, or I can save you the time: A TON.

 

[samspade]

He went to Jared's!

Hahahah! Worst ad campaign on TV. "He's been validated by his GF's friends for going to a strip mall jewelry store!"

It's one thing for a woman to bring it up as a suggestion. Quite another altogether to deliver it as an ultimatum. (Or, in case #3, for a guy to feel like he'll lose her and never find anyone better...how sad.)