NFL Patriots & Culture of Cheating

[Bible_Belt]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

ESPN has a long article out about the Patriots history of being accused of cheating.

This was a part that stood out to me:

(Patriots owner) Kraft is a member of the NFL's three-person compensation committee, which each year determines Goodell's salary and bonuses

 

[zekko]

I read that article. Pretty eye opening when you see the extent of the cheating the Patriots did. It looks to me at least that they had a bigger advantage because of it than the league wanted you to believe.

Still, according to the article, they saw a weakness in the league's willingness to enforce the rules, and they exploited it. They did what they could get away with. Yeah, they got caught, and yeah they paid a few penalties, but they still have the four Super Bowl wins.

 

[Fatal Jay]

I read that article. Pretty eye opening when you see the extent of the cheating the Patriots did. It looks to me at least that they had a bigger advantage because of it than the league wanted you to believe.

Still, according to the article, they saw a weakness in the league's willingness to enforce the rules, and they exploited it. They did what they could get away with. Yeah, they got caught, and yeah they paid a few penalties, but they still have the four Super Bowl wins.

So what are you saying?

 

[zekko]

So what are you saying?

That it was an interesting article?

 

[Fatal Jay]

oh, thought you was justifying the fact that they cheat

 

[zekko]

oh, thought you was justifying the fact that they cheat

No, but I'm saying they're getting away with it. Oh, the owner and the coach have been fined, and they've lost some draft picks. But they're still piling up the Super Bowls.

I'm sure you've heard about Pittsburgh complaining about radio interference in last night's game, and that they say it happens all the time at Gillette Stadium.

I didn't watch the game, as I'm not a fan of either team, but I saw a few minutes of it. When I was watching, the Steelers had 3rd and goal but were called for a false start. Roethlisberger immediately started complaining to the refs that the Patriots had yelled out a fake simulated snap count that caused the lineman to jump. The announcers said the refs didn't hear it. But at this point things are looking pretty dirty in New England.

However, I wonder how many SoSuavers would consider it alpha to cheat to win if you could get away with it? I bet quite a few.

 

[speed dawg]

Best coaches/players/programs are always on the edge of innovation. At all levels. In the pros, your schemes aren't really going to change TOO much since all the talent is similar, so you are looking into other ways. From what I've seen, they really have not come out and CHEATED in the true sense of the definition. They've exploited loopholes.

My personal opinion is that most of their critics are haters.

 

[Bible_Belt]

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Steelers-discuss-headset-issues-further-expose-Patriots-ways-39331277

Where there's smoke there's fire, and there's been plenty of smoke in New England during the Bill Belichick era.

First, there was Spygate, then Deflategate, which took placed earlier this year. On Thursday, a new controversy was born in the very first game of the 2015 season.

Instead of communicating with their coaches, Pittsburgh's coaches received the broadcast stream of the Patriots' radio announcers for nearly the entire first half of their game against host New England. Mike Tomlin was irate after the game and the Steelers included this note on what happened on the sidelines related to the headset malfunction following the game.

"This is the kind of stuff that happens to the visiting team in Gillette Stadium all the time. From the start of the game through the opening 14 minutes of the first quarter, the Steelers’ coaches’ headsets were receiving the Patriots Radio Network broadcast of the game. The broadcast was so loud that the Steelers coaches were unable to communicate, and the NFL rule is that if one team’s headsets are not working the other team is supposed to be forced to take their headsets off. It’s what the NFL calls the Equity Rule. Strangely enough, whenever an NFL representative proceeded to the New England sideline to shut down their headsets, the Steelers headsets cleared. Then as the representative walked away from the New England sideline, the Steelers’ headsets again started to receive the Patriots game broadcast."

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

It's funny how people hate on the teams that are winning. If you look deep enough many teams do many things that are seen as questionable but people like to focus on the team that's winning.

 

[mrRuckus]

I don't see the Blackhawks being accused of cheating during their 3 recent championships by their "haters."

 

[zekko]

There's no question the Patriots have cheated. Certainly they cheated with Spygate. I don't see how anyone who follows football would not acknowledge that.

They weren't exploiting a loophole, they were exploiting a weakness in the league in catching and punishing offenders. There's a difference. Regardless, it's paid off for them. But their reputation has suffered.

The league has supposedly cleared them on the radio business, and Pittsburgh has said they won't file a complaint. But I think the league is protecting them, to an extent. If you read the article in the OP's post, it talks about how the league destroyed some of the evidence against them. They didn't want the credibility of their champions compromised.

 

[samspade]

I found that article to be 10,000 words of mostly hot air. Spygate was years ago and the Patriots have already been punished. It was signal-stealing (with video taping).

I'm not a Pats fan (but not a hater). I don't see much evidence, at least with Deflategate, that there was any cheating. In fact the Wells Report itself explains that the Colts played with as many under-inflated footballs as did the Patriots in the AFCCG. Now what do you think happened, 1) most of the footballs lost some air in the cold or 2) a ball boy deflated 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom? Occam's Razor. In any case it absolutely did not give anyone an edge, because 3 out of 4 Colts balls measured after the game were under the legal limit; only 1 out of 4 Pats' balls was under-inflated. Remember, the Colts got their a$$es kicked, 45-7. New England scored 28 points in the second half.

As for the headsets, those are administered by the league. It's possible the home team could mess with the frequencies. These fail at every stadium from time to time, and a good team is prepared for that possibility. I find it hard to believe that in the first game after Brady's reinstatement, the Patriots would do something so blatant. But the internet is a big feedback loop of indignation and conspiracy theories and click bait.

Well, I have my own theory: The NFL WANTS this garbage on its front pages to distract you from the concussion controversy (see upcoming Sony movie).

 

[Bible_Belt]

If you or I got caught using a jamming device, they'd throw us in jail for 10-20 years. The FCC is notorious for strict fines and harsh punishments.

https://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/jammer-enforcement

 

[zekko]

I found that article to be 10,000 words of mostly hot air. Spygate was years ago and the Patriots have already been punished. It was signal-stealing (with video taping).

If by hot air you mean a comprehensive account of what happened, then yeah.

I agree that there may be ways to explain away Deflategate and this latest thing with the radios. MAY be. But there is no question they cheated with Spygate. And yes, they were punished, but they still got three Super Bowls out of it. So I doubt that they regret any of what they did, considering that it led to ultimate success.

 

[Fatal Jay]

I view Tom Brady as a cheater, just because of the evidence behind him. I see a trend when qbs get caught up in scandals seem like things get brushed under the rug.

 

[samspade]

This is interesting - just some historical perspective:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...2015/09/12/nfls-original-spy-vs-spy/72103086/

 

[samspade]

If by hot air you mean a comprehensive account of what happened, then yeah.

This is an example what I mean:

The Patriots' primary victims saw Spygate, and other videotaping rumors, as confirmation that they had been cheated out of a Super Bowl -- even though they lacked proof. The Panthers now believe that their practices had been taped by the Patriots before Super Bowl XXXVIII in 2004. "Our players came in after that first half and said it was like [the Patriots] were in our huddle," a Panthers source says. During halftime -- New England led 14-10 -- Carolina's offensive coordinator, Dan Henning, changed game plans because of worries the Patriots had too close a read on Carolina's schemes. And, in the second half, the Panthers moved the ball at will before losing 32-29 on a last-second field goal. "Do I have any tape to prove they cheated?" this source says. "No. But I'm convinced they did it."