Neil Strauss: The Game

[Marcopolo]

I didn't know who Neil Strauss was until I looked him up, then when I had some time to kill I skimmed over his book at Barnes&Noble. I think that the fact that he is a scrawny bald guy with an Ansel Adams looking nose and you look at the woman he is with now, that is a classic case of the "mismatched" couple if there ever was one. This is confirmation that he was able to seduce at least one HB who most would have considered completely out of his league looks-wise. He must have done something right.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I didn't know who Neil Strauss was until I looked him up, then when I had some time to kill I skimmed over his book at Barnes&Noble. I think that the fact that he is a scrawny bald guy with an Ansel Adams looking nose and you look at the woman he is with now, that is a classic case of the "mismatched" couple if there ever was one. This is confirmation that he was able to seduce at least one HB who most would have considered completely out of his league looks-wise. He must have done something right.

Who is he dating now?

 

[Marcopolo]

http://theseductionbible.com/images/strauss.jpg

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

http://theseductionbible.com/images/strauss.jpg

Dude, they broke up at least a year ago and she started dating some other musician.

 

[ricorico]

I didn't know who Neil Strauss was until I looked him up, then when I had some time to kill I skimmed over his book at Barnes&Noble. I think that the fact that he is a scrawny bald guy with an Ansel Adams looking nose and you look at the woman he is with now, that is a classic case of the "mismatched" couple if there ever was one. This is confirmation that he was able to seduce at least one HB who most would have considered completely out of his league looks-wise. He must have done something right.

Yes, he has connections and hangs out with famous musicians. He also writes books and we all know men with clout can always get the attention of shallow chicks.. Especially in Hollywood.

Even women with clout in Hollywood get boy-toys who are way better looking then them. Guys in Hollywood know that "fronting" is what gets chicks. If they think you are somebody and you know the right people, you really don't need much game at all. Just a good ability to deliver a line of BS.!!!

Women here are as dumb as a brick and have rose colored glasses on. That's why so many are fooled into taking all sorts of pics by "photographers" who pretend to work for major mags, but are really just pervs..

Some women have even gotten killed because they are lured into secluded spots by photographers they just met at a mall or something ,cause he will tell them he works for Playboy or knows ceratin people. Most of these girls don't even check facts. they are easily impressed.


Now if Strauss was a janitor and could still pull up these babes(away from Hollywood where the right car and apartment gets you more than game) for long term relationships I would be really impressed.

 

[Marcopolo]

I didn't know that, I guess the article I read was outdaged. But he did successfully seduce her and bang her even if they are still not together. She is a guitarist for Courtney love's band, so she is a "somebody" in her own right already and I doubt she needed whatever fame he had.

Even women with clout in Hollywood get boy-toys who are way better looking then them. Guys in Hollywood know that "fronting" is what gets chicks. If they think you are somebody and you know the right people, you really don't need much game at all. Just a good ability to deliver a line of BS.!!!

Really?... I know a couple people in Hollywood who have somewhat of a name, not a big name but you would probably recognize their music and cinematography/photograhy if you saw it, it is really no big deal to know a few people and didn't give it much thought. I would probably have to move there to capitalize on it however. And not every "Hollywood" person is super shallow, I think that is an urban myth. The ones who I know are among the coolest, most creative, interesting, friendliest and fun people to be around once you get to know them. I think it is the wannabes who are pretentious.

Women here are as dumb as a brick and have rose colored glasses on. That's why so many are fooled into taking all sorts of pics by "photographers" who pretend to work for major mags, but are really just pervs..

Really? It is not that difficult for any HB to get herself into print if she wants to(okay playboy maybe). But I could get any HB who knows how to pose for a camera into any number of commercial advertising or magazines. I am sure saying "I am a photographer for Gettyimages" probably doesn't sound as cool as saying you are a photographer for playboy, and if they are that dumb they probably don't even know what Gettyimages is LOL. I actually pay my models and treat it like a business also.
I have a friend in LA who is a well known celeberty,glamour and commercial photographer, and he kinda jokingly said that getting models are a dime a dozen, but it is when you actually have to speak to them that is the pain(meaning they are airheads and not worth talking to)

 

[ricorico]

You can actually advertise for models on Craigslist in Los Angeles for $100 bucks for the day. A friend of mine put up an ad for fun for a Bogus apparel company last year on Craigslist. He said he was willing to pay $100 bucks and that was it! But he wrote they may be in a national ad and you can use the pics for a portfolio. He also stated there would be some nudity involved.He got many responses. About 30% were really hot girls which makes you realize the competition is tough here. There are so many girls competing for modeling jobs. Even Von Dutch(crappy company that made ugly trucker hats and tees) was paying $100 bucks on craigslist to models and getting interns to work for free and pay their own expenses to go to the MAGIC(apparel show in Las Vegas every year)

Getting work in the industry can be tough here if you don't know the right people. Models, actors,ect. I know some models and actors. A couple of professional ones and a lot of just regular ones.You'd be suprised at how little they get paid if they are not connected to a big agency or bigshots.
I was on a shoot lat night with some friends who are writting and filming a show they are hoping gets picked up on cable. So far they filmed 3 out of 9. Anyway, I was suprised some of the cast were really nice looking and young. Yet, a couple of them had to take the bus. It's really like winning the lottery here when you hit it big cause a majority never make it at all.

I don't think it's so easy to get a HB who knows how to pose into any magazine or print. I mean ones that really pay, not BS stuff.It's harder than you think in LA. I know a lot of girls who are easily 9's and 10's who can't get into printed ads for designers and mags that easy. Even ones who have big agencies behind them. There are tons upon tons of hot girls going for the same jobs.I only know 1 girl who works all the time. She's Greek and absolutely stunning. But she has been at it since she was 17 and is now 22 and still looks 17. She just started making real money a couple of years ago.

 

[danielzxc]

She is a guitarist for Courtney love's band, so she is a "somebody" in her own right already and I doubt she needed whatever fame he had.

Maybe to someone on the lowest rungs of fame that is a "sufficient" level of fame. But for someone who is ALREADY at that level, they want MORE -- because they are exposed to people more famous than themselves everyday, and they see and know what it's like and they want it for themselves. So, no, I doubt this chick was simply "content" to be in Courtney Love's band. I am sure she would like to have been at Courtney Love level -- or higher -- herself.

So this Strauss guy, who knows what they talked about between themselves? Maybe he had her convinced that he was really going places, that his star was on the rise. So she jumped on board but when she realized that he wasn't really going anywhere special, she got off.

Anyway, as for Darwinian Sympathizer, I think you and the AMazon reviewer you quote are being too harsh -- unfairly and unrealistically so. To most of us, it's clear that looks -- and other hard/almost impossible to control things -- play a key role. However, it's also clear that the way we carry and present ourselves makes a big difference too. That Amazon reviewer would put things like "afc" in square quotes as though to mock the whole concept, but CLEARLY some guys make some very fundamental mistakes in dealing with women that cost them dearly. Same with other concepts like "dhv". Naturally, you'd want to present the highest possible value image of yourself. (What's the alternative?!?) Point being there is a LOT that guys can do that improves their success with chicks.

Where I DO agree with you is that none of this may be enough to land chicks who are out of your league. Or, at least not with any consistency. And yes, most guys dearly want to believe that there is SOME way out there that they CAN consistently bed hot babes. So that explains the popularity of the book.

(Just to add, I think MOST guys, depending on how long they stay in the game, can 1-4 times in their lives snag someone who is way out of their league if they play all the cards right. Unfortunately, the staying power of such relationships is most likely very shortlived.)

 

[danielzxc]

Rico, it's so true that it's who u know in that biz (that and plain luck). I've got a couple of actor buddies her in Australia who are fairly good friends with a couple of Hollywood b and c listers. Hasn't heped them in snagging any roles (but maybe it might if they were in Hollywood -- but actually, no, cos they seriously lack talent). But they have a few scripts, which I think are nothing special, but their connections with those actors has been enough to get their scripts more exposure than FAR more talented but unknown writers will ever get. (Still, talent is necessary, and they didn't sell their scripts.)

 

[Marcopolo]

alot of young models starting out will also do it for free, he didn't need to put the $100 enticement in there. Most just starting out are trying to build up thier own portfolio to get future work, and are willing to trade time for prints or CD's with photographers just starting out. Once a photographer becomes established the model usually has to pay him for photos just to build her portfolio, or can make some deal with the photographer where the photographer has rights to sell her images to a stock agency. My friend in Hollywood could get any one of these women with sufficient looks and talent where they want to go. That is irrelevant to me since I am not an aspiring model, I actually aspire to be just like him when I grow up LOL.

 

[Chosen1]

Good for you. That is the main factor missing growing up for a lot of us. To have an effective role model/father figure when learning how to socialize and deal with the ladies is just priceless. You've had the advantage, which I must admit, I am envious of, of having had that for half your life. Would love it if you continue to share some of that knowledge you got from your pop. Awesome.

I think that having a role model is very important. I had no role model growing up as I only lived with my mom. I think that if I had had a father growing up I might have been a better person. You never know, I also think that men raised by only there mothers turn out to be afc's more then men with fathers. I could be wrong but I think I'm right.

On to the book, it sucked big time. At first I was impressed even a month after reading the book I thought neil is a pimp. Then I realized that these guys were just children. They were all kind of weird even neil who in my opinion is not a great pickup artists just a guy who did what everybody else told him to do. There is a lot more wrong with this book I can't point out. If it were an autobiography it just didn't feel right. Also I hate auto's I rather right my own.

 

[Marcopolo]

I think that having a role model is very important. I had no role model growing up as I only lived with my mom. I think that if I had had a father growing up I might have been a better person. You never know, I also think that men raised by only there mothers turn out to be afc's more then men with fathers. I could be wrong but I think I'm right.

Interesting you say that ,I was talking with this gal the other day about her women studies class she took in college. She said that one of the few men in there happened to be raised by lesbians, and that he was probably the most effeminate straight guy she had ever met.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

thread slightly off course, but that's fine, all input welcome.

I'll be re-reading it in the next couple of weeks, taking it slowly. Have to say though, it's really, really pathetic reading now I see it for what it is.

And for those of you who say there are things in it that are of worth, well I'd like to say that there things of worth in trashy novels by Barbara Cartland, but it doesn't stop her works being regarded as trash.

As I read the book again I get the impression that Neil Strauss is, basically, flogging a dead horse - a very dead horse, so dead that he's blind that it's dead.

Take for example David DeAngelo with his "attraction is not a choice" sales pitch. Along the lines I am utterly surprised at how many individuals allowed him to logically deduce from this statement alone that it is possible to attract women regardless of your looks, status, lifestyle etc . . . in short to be able to manipulate her attraction to you. Which is the same as Strauss is trying expound here. This is most telling of the social intelligence of the audience in question. Here are the points that immediately come to mind:

1) why is there this disparity between the version for men and for women. Books by Strauss, and nay some posters here, claim that you attract any woman you want as long as you have the right technique - strange that most just want the HBs!!! By contrast books for women trying to get men never set out to do this. They assume the woman have already somehow socially connected to the man and try to help them progress from there - which is far more realistic. Of course the latter comment does not apply to that piece of cr*p "The Rules"

2) more important and rather disturbingly, Strauss and the Seduction Community at large (read bunch of delusionally retarded sad losers) are basically putting forward, ahem, nothing more than the view that you can control somebody's will, and that's pretty terrifying. I will talk on this more, but lets say if I had the powers that Ross Jefferies claims he has then I would:

i) get the woman of my choice (most probably a very rich and beautiful woman), probably some A list Hollywood actress so I can have a really partied out life.
ii) live happily ever in comfort and luxury knowing that I can keep her by my side
iii) use my powers to further my own ends ion her friends, etc . . . etc . . .

Ross Jefferies has never achieved this, doesn't take much imagination to wonder why.

3) the reasons given for why these feelings should be manipulatable are, to be blunt, logically flawed. Take for example the Alpha Male concept. Mystery advocates smiling and acting as the centre of attention and peacocking yourself up. What he doesn't tell you, of course, is that females have in built psychological make up to detect pseudo Alpha Males. These are males that pretend to act like Alpha Males but are nothing of the sort. The very definition of Alpha Male necessitates a hierarchy, otherwise everyone would be equal and there be no evolution (evolution is driven by inequality, but that's another story for another day). Because of this most of us can NEVER be Alpha Males no matter how hard we try. If we pretend to be one the females have a second social instinct to root it out - unless they are retarded!!! Also, and this is very important, all because you are an Alpha does not necessarily mean you will get the woman of your choice. History is littered with examples of this. Being an Alpha Male increases your chances of the woman being attracted to you. This does NOT mean she will be attracted to you - that's another matter all together.

more to follow. . . . the book is really tacky though . . . (I have a very good reason for this thread by the way, which I will explain at the end) . . .

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

He is selling to the Middle American idiot who is doomed from the start unless he leaves American shores. The numbers' game dictates that you are going to have a rough time if you stay in America. Most females are fat. Stats prove this. Most have plenty of money and don't feel the need for a boyfriend at the moment. Most are pampered and worshipped from the moment they begin school. The Middle American dude is up against all of this. The book and the DJ stuff gives him hope. Gives him hope that he can beat the numbers' game. Much like the chumps who try to beat casino games. They are driven by hope. Both groups see guys just like themselves (your DJ heroes are just plain odd looking) and ask, "Dude, if he can do it so can I!!!" Again, hope is what drives the business.

The smart guy doesn't play casino games. He IS the casino. He invests in gambling stocks rather than time and money trying to get the "right" cards. The poker craze (much like the DJ craze) is filled with guys who like to swim upstream. They just refuse to do basic math. The same goes for the wannabe DJ.

Conclusion...You probably won't get rich playing cards, and you probably won't get much competing with 100 guys for the one decent looking girl in your neighborhood.

Solution...
For those wanting to make money remember, TIME = MONEY. Boring and simple but it works. Getting rich quick is only a good idea if you are the man behind the idea.
For those wanting amazing girls. Find a place with good genetics where you are the hunted not the hunter. The concept can be explained in one sentence. That sentence won't make me rich. Writing about how I transformed myself into a stud over a long time will make me rich. Talking about cruising cool bars and clubs in LA is sexier than talking about finding a legit taxi driver in Belarus. I really doubt if Mr. Middle America can even find Belarus on the map.

I agree with most of this. Here's a point though: I would compare most men's lust for HBs similar to most men's desire to be seriously wealthy. Sexual and status pursuits of men are used by con men to lure the unwary. For example there are tons of scams operating in horse racing and stock market trading. They all promise you wealth beyond your present earnings for a "small fee in comparison to what you get". You go on the course/get the system and you just start to lose money eventually. For the unwary and ignorant they see horse racing and/or the markets as a place that is easy to make money. What they don't realize is just how hard it is and that there really is no such thing as easy money. These hustler play with your greed, Strauss plays to your lust . .

Similar to Strauss book. He's cleverly weaves his web of deceit under the guise of a novel like narrative, throwing some amusing anecdotes along the way. He reinforces ignorant individuals with fallacious concepts and beliefs that are not at all rooted in reality - the making of a pseudo religion almost.

To some of the posters on this thread who said it made entertaining reading I would like to say you are just deluded. It might make great reading if it reinforces your beliefs and you can't wait try out the techniques to pull the babes (statistical discussion to follow later), but when you find out its BS it becomes masochistic reading. That's my point.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

I like this discussion.

everyone uses everyone else.

This realization was probably the hardest truth for me to accept, especially since I'm no different from anyone else in this regard. In fact, I've had to try and deny this in order to comfort myself and behave as if I never thought about it. Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss...

Actually that quote came from Deep Dish. And I am sure he might have got that from someone else also.

This thread is to repay a partial debt I owe to Deep Dish, Pook, bondjamesbond, anti-dump, the unknown don, Deep Blue, etc. . . because they are the site's great posters and they know what they are talking about.

NOT ONE of them have claimed to make anyone fall in love with you or desire you. They have tactfully left that out because they know attraction does not work like that. Getting women does not work like that.

If you want to a seriously high level discussion about it, the statement that "everyone uses everyone else" puts forward a concept of a minimalising social group theoretic interaction amongst the participants. Other social animals have also been observed to behave like this, so this is nothing new. It's just that we have "duped", "p*ssified", "femin*zed", "persuaded" into this concept of "caring for others", "putting other people first" by the media, religious texts, politically correct social interactions etc . . .

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

been away on holiday

here's another reviewer from amazon.com:

Pure BS, But It Has A Nice Cover, September 30, 2005

I have been writing for men on women for some time now, [...], so naturally I was curious to see what made this book so "great."

I knew from the get go that this book was going to be pure BS, but I had no idea it was going to be this bad. Sorry, Mr. Strauss, but come on. For us writers who have been around, you aren't fooling us.

For those of who who still aren't sure about this book, whether you bought it or not, here is the reality of it all:

1. Mr. Strauss tells tale tales about him being able to talk to a woman, and then, within minutes, he is able to make out with her.

He also tells about "pick up artists" who can take women in the back room of a club and start making out with them. Read page 10 for an example.

Guys, are you this dumb to believe this? You've read past books and articles on such lame and VERY bad advice. Let me ask you, have they worked for you so far? I already know the answer.

2. The whole book reeks of images of little boys who sit in a treefort, exchanging ideas on how to "hit on hot chicks," when the reality is that it blows up in their faces.

As a writer and researcher on this subject, I have known many many men who think they are this "pick up artist," and they are lucky if they can pick up their dirty socks without straining their back muscle.

3. Mr. Strauss talked to several "pick up artists," and these guys call themselves ridiculous names, like "Mystery." Remember that treehouse I was telling you about? How old are these guys, 16???

4. On page 22, this "Mystery," gives Mr. Strauss one of his openers to use after the ice is broken: "If I weren't gay, you'd be so mine."

Yeah, uh-huh. Try that and see how that works for ya.

See what I mean when I say this book is beyond the point of being BS?

5. This book also advocates touching, and smelling her hair within minutes after breaking the ice. Yeah, try that too and see how that works for ya.

6. Mr. Strauss constantly tells tale tales of his experiences. One of them being on page 61, when he said that he got a number from a Playmate the Year. On page 157 he tells how Hedi Fleiss wanted to meet him. Why, of course she does!

He is a blowhard who makes stuff up, and in addition, he says that other PUI's want to be like him. They follow his every word. On page 214, he brags that all over the world people were using his jokes, comebacks and lines to meet, kiss, and f--k girls.

Yeah, uh-huh, ok.

Again, I'm sure you have been around such blowhards like him.


In conclusion, this book is basically filled with dellusional nerds who think they are a success with women, but in reality they are not. They instead tell tale tales and other such BS.
They gather in groups, sharing stories. It's pretty laughable, if you think about it.

Many guys, who don't know any better, seem to think that these "PUA's" (Pick up Artists. But they call themselves "PUA's." Yeah, I'm laughing as I type this) are the talk of the town. They aren't. For instance: Go to their message boards, one of them being at [...], and it is a ghost town that you can hear an echo in.

There is no "secret underground," and there is no othe rsuch ridiculous stuff lie that. All it is is a bunch of dellusional guys who think they are a success with women.

I wonder what name they gave their treefort where they hold their secret meetings that women won't be able to find.


Why am I being so hard on this book, and the little boys who call themselves a "pick up artsist" or the ever so laughable, "guru"? Because I get so sick and tired of guys who are looking for good advice, only to run into bozos like these. I talked to one guy who spent $500 on a seminar. He got ripped off. Just about everything he tried on women failed.

Be very cautious out there guys, and don't believe everything you hear.

Thomas

more to follow . . .

 

[Serialized3]

Damn, Neil must have pissed in your cereal for you to keep going on about him like this.

 

[BluEyes]

Sounds like you had a bad experience bro.


I love how skeptics leap at the chance to discredit people.

I talked to one guy who spent $500 on a seminar. He got ripped off. Just about everything he tried on women failed.

Wow, all of one guy? Sounds like he neglected to talk to the other nine.

Listen man, perhaps you're just ugly. Perhaps you were severely neglected as a child. Perhaps you have a learning disability. Perhaps you're just a cynic and skeptic. Perhaps you have trouble believing and trusting people. Or, perhaps you're just lazy...

Yet, tbh, a lot of the things they do DO in fact work.

+1 for supporting the book. I know firsthand that many of the strategies and concepts they utilize are genuine.

Whatever, the stink of skepticism smells the same in whatever context it's used in.

 

[Distant Light]

I don't really want to get into this but I'll just keep it short.

First of all the book was nothing but Entertainment, even if you have basic writing skills you can see that some of the stuff was BS it was just a way to keep the plot going. Just look at the RSD vs MM type of segment, making it seem like they were the bad guys. RSD wasn't and isn't as bad as they were portrayed in the book.

Another thing that I want to put across is that only the nerds think "If I learn these techniques and the structure" I can go out get a girl and bring her home. Not in a million years. That is nothing but pure delusional stuff because you don't even know why the techniques are needed and used.

"Attraction is a choice" is 100% because "Attraction" is an emotional state just like "Happy" "Sad" "Anger" etc. It's impossible to say "You can never get angry". "Anger is not a choice". You can cause "attraction" in every girl. Now don't get this mixed up with "You can lay every girl" because this is 100% false. No guy can go out an lay every girl and that's because there are so many variables to this game.

- She flakes
- Her friends pull her away from you at a crucial moment
- Logisitics are bad
- LMR and then she flakes whenever you try to meet up again
- Moves to another state or country
- Has a BF who lives with her so she doesn't answer

There are so many different ways. People who say they are having 40% and 50% succes is pure lies. Your pull rate % is actually going to be very low, because if you go to a club an open 10 women and you go home that night you've only fuked 1 out of 10 women you approached. That's only ten percent.

A lot of guys really don't get what this community is about an really don't understand how this is all working. The only reason why MM and stuff similar to that works is because all the sub-communication falls into place after awhile. But if you've ever been with a guy who is starting out with MM or even a decent guy you'll notice two things...
- When he runs out of routines he can't keep it going
- Whenever he does a routine he is waiting for a reaction and if he doesn't get the one he wants then it will mess up his game.

Many people got this game mixed up and don't realize its far deeper than the techniques. Most guys don't even know that sex isn't primarly done because of the pleasure. (There is something beyond the pleasure that most men aren't even awhere of) I've personally learned stuff an had great success. I've also seen success of others.

The only guys who are actually good are the ones who went through the process. Meaning going out constantly for 2-5 years non stop. But you have a lot of guys who didn't go through that process an want to teach bootcamps and stuff. So it kind of wastes people time. Seriously DJ stuff is a joke.

If you want to get good or if your doubting it
- Go out nonstop for about 2-3 months an then look back think back to now an you'll see the change.
- Learn and clearly understand how to get women and how the whole social dynamics function. You'll only understand when your out in the field. You will never get how to frame control if your not in field an that is one of the most important things in pickup.
- Words, lines, techniques, routines, don't matter
- "Attraction is not a choice", attraction is an emotional state. You can gain attraction from any girl but you can't lay all of them. This is why any type of guy (Disabled, ugly, small, obsese, etc) can get a girl. If "Attraction" wasn't a state of mind then only good looking guys would be getting girls. Don't get it mixed up by thinking girls like guys based on looks just because we like girls based on looks. A female's mind is totally different from ours when it comes to this.

 

[tmpgstx]

Has a BF who lives with her so she doesn't answer

I get this all the dam time ..lol - can tell she likes me alot but always the *pause* with no answer when asking her out. Every single time she is living with a guy but doesn't want me to know.