Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Need Help with the art of listening

dannyegg4575

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
311
Reaction score
11
I really really suck with listening skill and need your help...

Can someone point me in the right direction?

anyway, here is one of the correspondence I got from a girl the other day...

"i dunno wut i like about photography anymore! the past five years in art school didn't do any good
the only thing i learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere... unless u r born wealthy... "

to which i replied,

"i don't understand how being wealthy has anything to do with doing something you enjoy doing. It's up to you what you feel is right, I trust you will know what to do. :) "

so, did i screw this up?

Can someone please point me in the right direction to the art of listening? I'm so bad.. .
 

Microphone Fiend

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 30, 2003
Messages
2,327
Reaction score
19
Location
Where I be at
Well imo the key to listening is to either feedback what she said to you in a manner that shows you are on the same page or bring up emotions. Some threads I would have used are:

a) What made you fall in love with photography (pay attn to her description because the same things that she loves about her hobbies carries over into her love life)

b) How did photography make you feel when you loved it? (Make her relive the passion she once had, especially when she is around you)

c) What would you do if money was not an issue? (Let her imagine her life if everything fell into place and how wonderful things could be)


As for general conversation tips, this is a repost of the best advice I've ever come across
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=136879

Good Luck
 

Vice

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
186
If you consider listening an "art" than you may have a problem right there.
 

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,005
Reaction score
5,604
Age
48
Location
midwestern cow field 40
"i dunno wut i like about photography anymore! the past five years in art school didn't do any good
the only thing i learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere... unless u r born wealthy... "

to which i replied,

"i don't understand how being wealthy has anything to do with doing something you enjoy doing. It's up to you what you feel is right, I trust you will know what to do. "

You're trying to be supportive, but she's not hearing it that way. She is complaining about money; you are telling her it is stupid to complain about money. What is tricky about women is that reality has no relevance. Her entire reality is how she feels. You can't ever argue with how a woman feels or tell her you don't understand. Of course you don't understand how she feels; she probably does not understand it well herself. You lose by even trying. Just accept a woman's crazy feelings, even when they are crazy, and that will make her think you understand.
 

dannyegg4575

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
311
Reaction score
11
for future reference, is this a better response?

"Money can be such an issue for a lot of us."
 

OrangeCrusader

Don Juan
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
85
Reaction score
2
dannyegg4575 said:
for future reference, is this a better response?

"Money can be such an issue for a lot of us."
Not really, it's pretty general, and not exactly on the same topic. She was discussion photography, and the money part was only at the end, sort of an afterthought and not the main message. Try a reply focused more on the main point of her message.
 

Mr. Me

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
84
"Listening", when it comes to relationships with women, entails displaying empathy and giving validation. It's like you have to step aside yourself and put yourself in their shoes and feel their pain along with them.

They're VENTING. They want your ear. So, you have to affirm that you're UNDERSTANDING where they're coming from, and where they're coming from is FEELINGS, not necessarily facts. In fact, what she told you was absolutes, which are all-or-nothing generalizations, which is really about the way she's feeling, because obviously these can't be factual. ("Absolutes" would be "the ONLY thing I learned" "Unless..." "didn't do ANY good")

Your reply to her had to do with reasoning. That's not what women want. They don't want logic, they don't want solutions, like we do when we complain. They just want to have someone they can share their feelings with. They have to emotionally dump. When you don't "listen" in that way, they'll tell you that you're not listening to them, and there you are thinking you heard every word so WTF are they talking about?

So you can physically show that you're listening by paying her your full attention for fifteen minutes (look at her and put the frickin' paper down or turn off the TV) not interrupting and by nodding your head up and down and saying "uh huh" and "I see" and "Hmmmm" every now and then (I'm not kidding. It beats having to come up with things to say!) And if something doesn't make sense to you, just ask a question for clarification. That also shows you're listening and that what she's saying is important to you, as that's part of her definition of "listening" as well.

That "I trust you will know what to do" isn't bad, yet you may also just throw it back to her to get her to find the solution to her problem.

I'll use your example to show you what I mean about listening, empathy, validation and throwing it back to her:

She says:

"I dunno wut I like about photography anymore! the past five years in art school didn't do any good
the only thing I learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere... unless u r born wealthy... "

You then say:

"Yeah... uh huh. It sounds like that's got you really frustrated. I don't blame you for feeling that way! That must suck. And you're such a good photographer too. What do you think you can do about that?"

She'll go on and emotionally dump some more and you'll keep validating and showing empathy and by the time she's dumped everything out, then she'll feel better and probably say:

"I feel so much better now/I think I have an idea of what to do! Thanks! I love you!!!"

You can learn more about the skill of listening here: http://coping.org/dialogue/listen.htm
 

ready123

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
1,260
Reaction score
35
Location
Los Angeles
Vice said:
If you consider listening an "art" than you may have a problem right there.
listening iS an art. people think it's a passive exercise but the best listeners are proactive and alert all the way, even though their mouth is shut

it's also easy once you get outside your head, and stop worrying about what you're gonna say in response

instead of thinking, OMG I better have the perfect response so thinks I'm cool so I better brainstorm it ahead of time while she's talking (AKA I'm not really listening), just shut your brain off, put yourself in her reality, and let your mouth go on autopilot

a perfect response only exists in retrospect. in the moment, all that matters is the convo is flowing, and it won't happen if you refuse to shut off the critical voice in your head
 

LovelyLady

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
437
Reaction score
41
Danny, Communicating/actively listening can be so tough can't it? Here are some of my thoughts about your exchange, I hope they help in some way :)


"i dunno wut i like about photography anymore! the past five years in art school didn't do any good
the only thing i learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere... unless u r born wealthy... "


in which i replied... "i don't understand how being wealthy has anything to do with doing something you enjoy doing. It's up to you what you feel is right, I trust you will know what to do. :) "


Four guidelines I try to use when communicating a response are:

Is my response kind?

Establish safety. Empathy, compassion, gentle tone. I can tell you how I as a woman have received/felt most satisfied by a man in feeling truly listened to/understood by him: A man I adore, who "gets me", uses one of his 'pet names' for me and he opens me right up to feeling like he recognizes I am feeling overwhelmed and vulnerable and he is on my "side" - and that he is not overwhelmed by my concern. He makes me feel safe just by reminding me of who we are to eachother. Just his using one of his "pet names" for me reminds me my feelings are safe with him (he is giving me the gift of emotional safety and protection all in the use of that one word).

Think about words that symbolize that dynamic that you, as a man, are comfortable using with her. Use them when things are going smoothly so you have comfort using that name as a reminder/or touchstone when they are not.

Is my response honest?

That is not limited to "is it true?" But also means that if I feel like the person I am listening to is manipulating me to a reaction with sharing a problem - he probably is. Am I being honest with myself in my gut about what I am feeling about the exchange process itself?

I feel it is important I come from a place of integrity to myself first. This means that sometimes you have to be comfortable with the silences. Allowing the silences and spaces in communicating are the Olympics of communicating, IMO.

So, take a moment to "checkin" with yourself first - it is okay to take time to process things so you can bring your best "self" to address the other person's needs. Sometimes this is done in a heartbeat, sometimes it can take awhile.

Second part of honesty is that I check that I am not going to offer more help or support than I am willing and able to honestly give.

Is it necessary?

Sometimes people don't need you to respond. Sometimes people just need to talk Sometimes they just need to verbally process outloud because the tangled ball of string in their hearts & heads is too big to unravel alone. It is kind of like they need you there to "hold this piece of string a sec while I go move this one" and you "hold that thought" that they shared with you in your own heart and mind - all safe for them - and remind them of it when you see it is time for them in their process to revisit that piece.

You just "watch and are on stand-by". You kind of "have their back" while they vent and pull out the important pieces that will help them. This is an important part of actively listening to.

I also liken it to a friend who dumps a big puzzle on the table and says I am going to put thisnightmare of a puzzle together - but some of these pieces don't matter - I am going to "hold-up " all the pieces and I need you to help me identify the important pieces when I am finished. They need to "dump" it ALL to get some distance from it - and they are trusting YOU to listen and then help them identify which parts are the important pieces they need to solve the challenge they are facing - and which ones they don't need to keep.

"What needs to be encouraged?" this is self-explanatory, I think. (And as a woman I am weak in this area verbally, because I have personally experienced men take a woman encouraging them overtly as us thinking they are weak somehow - so I have learned to be supportive in other ways - but a Woman functions so much in the verbal realm of the moment - that verbal encouragement is usually more comfortably received by us).


So, try it with hers?

""i dunno wut i like about photography anymore! the past five years in art school didn't do any good
the only thing i learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere... unless u r born wealthy... "

If this is written/texted instead of heard you will be missing a lot of information.

But as it is -

"i dunno wut i like about photography anymore! I feel a loss - I used to have a life-purpose driving passion for this and now I don't. I am burnt out.

the past five years in art school didn't do any good I fear I have wasted five years of my life and money.

the only thing i learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere...

I have no idea how I am going to be able to successfully take all this crap I learned in school and feed my self. I don't want to be another starving artist - I feel completely unprepared for the next stage in my life I am about to enter.

unless u r born wealthy... This is her dream fix - because then she could do her art in the purest way she wants and not worry about satisfying anyone for the $. She wants her own free source of income so she doesn't have to sell out her integrity in her work/photography.


See, a good listener doesn't deny the truth of a person's feelings or experiences. He doesn't argue that what you are feeling is wrong or invalid. He does help point the way past the emotional moment after being there with you in it. Now that is the great thing about sharing with a good Man is that he directs us forward - not just stays in the process with us. My guy would most likely send me a bunch of computer links about how to make $ as a photographer, maybe a few good ones marketing online, etc. And point me to action so I don't get stuck in my feelings for too long.
 
Last edited:

Sir I

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
75
Reaction score
1
Age
41
Location
Netherlands
FORGET ABOUT EVERYTHING EVER!! this is the golden trick

Girl talks.

"oh my last week was soooo bussy for me!"

"bussy?"

"I Love going out in the weekends"

love going out?

"I like Bacardi"

Bacardi?

I really feel like dancing hearing this song
feel like Dancing?


by now it should be obvious it works 99% of the time and it's an easy way to keep the conversation going on... though at times you will need to add some part to the conversation as it's not an interrigation.
 

Mavrick

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
904
Reaction score
43
dannyegg4575 said:
I really really suck with listening skill and need your help...

Can someone point me in the right direction?

anyway, here is one of the correspondence I got from a girl the other day...

"i dunno wut i like about photography anymore! the past five years in art school didn't do any good
the only thing i learned is artsy stuff is not gonna get me anywhere... unless u r born wealthy... "

to which i replied,

"i don't understand how being wealthy has anything to do with doing something you enjoy doing. It's up to you what you feel is right, I trust you will know what to do. :) "

so, did i screw this up?

Can someone please point me in the right direction to the art of listening? I'm so bad.. .
Women don't want advice, they just want to talk and have you listen. They just want to get it off their chest. They could care less about your opinion in the matter. They're going to do whatever the f'ck they want.

So, just listen and don't give advice.

Only offer advice when they ask for it.
 

MacAvoy

Banned
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
2,940
Reaction score
35
Location
Northern Ontario
Mavrick said:
Women don't want advice, they just want to talk and have you listen. They just want to get it off their chest. They could care less about your opinion in the matter. They're going to do whatever the f'ck they want.

So, just listen and don't give advice.
.
This is sage. I haven't thought about this in a long time since I'm not in a LTR but its true and a good thing for me in relationships to remember.
 
Top