My story

[InvisibleMan]

I'm not writing this to attract pity or scorn but I feel compelled and obsessed about finding an answer to my problem.

I am a decent looking guy with a good career, I am in good slender athletic shape (about 6' 175 pounds), am college educated, and I always dress nicely and shower daily. I have good leadership skills and have a deep voice and consider myself to be quite masculine. People tend to like me and call me "handsome" and I have a number of hobbies/interests.

I am 36 years old and am still a virgin. I have never been on a date or kissed a girl. Through my early 20s I was still optimistic about finding someone and thought I just had a string of bad luck. Over the years, and rejection after rejection I have developed a deep-seated bitterness and resentment towards men, women and dating. I don't let it show, however and it has only appeared in the last 5 years or so because I am becoming so frustrated.

I have read "Nice Guys Don't get Laid," "How to be the Jerk Women Love," "The Art of Seduction," "No More Mr. Nice Guy," & "How to be an Alpha Male" so I think I have a pretty good idea of the attraction of self-confidence, not catering to women (or being a people pleaser), and not being a "nice guy," but nothing has worked for me.

I have self confidence since I am fairly successful in other aspects of life, and try to project an image of success, but I operate in a complete vacuum. No woman has EVER expressed an interest in me, and every time I ask a woman for coffee or something, I always get the "I have a boyfriend answer." I have never been "hit on" by anyone, not even any fat or ugly women. Whether I am ****y or down, the result is always the same - no one cares and no one notices. I am "liked" but nothing more.

I have "just been myself," I have been a jerk, an a-hole, a nice guy, I've tried being aloof, and nothing works. For a time, I was actually even uninterested in sex because I had trained myself to think that it is not important.

It is no longer about "getting laid" or an interest in finding a mate, but I want to know what the hell is wrong with me. It is like I have a cloud of doom hanging over me. Women LIKE me but they have absolutely no interest in me romantically. I feel I have been psychologically and emotionally castrated.

Paying for sex is not an option - it does nothing for your self-esteem and there is always tomorrow and the next day and the next year with no sex.

I am not looking for scorn or pity here but am coming forth in an open an honest manner to look for solutions. I don't think anyone can give me any advice that I haven't already read or heard. but maybe there are other guys out there like me that have tried many things with no success, so anytime you think you got it bad, there is always someone who had it worse.



-The invisible Man

 

[realsmoothie]

OK... this is the kind of response that will drive some of the regulars on here nuts... but do you have any female friends?

If you do, you really need to ask them what the problem might be.

Because, to be honest, I see no reason why you haven't had at least someone in your life at some point hit on you.

I'm guessing that you're not telling us something.

 

[thissucks003]

but do you have any female friends?

Here is a better question: Do you have any friends?

I am not trying to rip on the invisibleman. But I get the distinct impression that he doesn't have any real friends. He describes having success in every other aspect of his life, but never having any dates or even kissing a girl. Most of the time, those that haven't, aren't very popular with anyone. They are either shy or for the most part loners. Again, I am not trying to rip on him, but would like to hear what he does on his spare time, especially his hobbies.

TS

 

[flexion_]

It seems like you have an avoidant personality disorder to me.

How many close friends to you have? (number)
How many women have you asked out in the last year? (number)

Probably you aren't making any effort, taking the victim role and not taking action. At you realize there is a problem.

 

[InvisibleMan]

Hi guys,

I don't really have any friends. I don't want to give the impression that I am a friendless loser (which I may very well be), but most of my close friends from high school and college have gotten married and had kids and we all know what happens to guys when that happens - they tend to drift apart from their single friends, and I've found that friends you make in adult life are never quite the same as your childhood friends.

Again, women and men seem to like me, and I have never mentioned my dark and dirty little loser secret to anyone (being dateless), but I can't seem to be able to make connections with people. I'm not too shy - I don't mind talking to people, and I am not too socially awkward - I can carry an intelligent conversation, but I can't ever seem to get past "hey, what's up," or "have you worked here long?" or whatever.

You may have hit on something about being an "avoidant personality." I am a loner. A textbook example, in fact. I have only asked one girl out in the past 4 years or so, because in many books I have read, they say you have to wait for a "signal" from a woman in order to approach (the smile, the hair flipping, the arm touch, etc.), but I have never gotten any "signals" from any women, and I have been rejected so many times I need to figure out what's wrong before I try again. And, again, NO women EVER approach me, even nasty women. People say you have to "get back on the horse" after being thrown off, but my butt's pretty sore and I need to figure out what I am doing wrong before I get back on.

I try to be an alpha male, but I think I come across as more of a "lone wolf." An animal without a pack. But isn't there supposed to be something mysterious and intriguing to women about that type? I don't know.

My hobbies are reading (I'm an avid reader, but most "book girls" are about as homely as you can get, and even though I have never had a girlfriend, I still have standards and wouldn't go out with fat girls - sorry just no attraction). I'm into fitness - I exercise daily (about 2 hours a day), I am a wargamer (most guys into games are nerds so no help there). I like sports and "manly" things. Guy movies, cooking, football, weight lifting, etc.


- The Invisible Man

 

[PJD]

You're a loner dude. I'm much the same way. The next big project in my life is to get a social life.

You're 36, it's now or never. You can see that lots of uglier, less successful guys can get chicks, so you can too.

Your brain is probably not built to be a good social animal. So it doesn't come natural. But I bet that your brain is exceptional in other areas. You need to use that brain and approach human socializing like a science that you can learn and master.

The nuclear option you may want to consider is vacationing in Tokyo, Taipai, or Bangkok for a while. Just go to clubs, drink if that helps you, and unless you're actively mean, you'll get some girls who will think you're great and sleep with you. Shoot, marry one of them if you need to. Or at least use it as some practice. I'm not talking about prostitutes btw. I hear it's a similar situation in Eastern Europe too but I don't have experience there.

 

[Desdinova]

First of all, welcome to the board.

I have only asked one girl out in the past 4 years or so
I have been rejected so many times I need to figure out what's wrong before I try again.

These two statements seem to contradict each other. You've been rejected a lot, but you've been rejected once in the past four years? I'm going to do some math here.... If you've asked one girl out every four years since you were 16, you would have a total of 6 rejections. Compared to other people on this message board (including myself), that's nothing. Even if you had one rejection for every year (making a total of 20), that's still nothing compared to others on here.

Could you go into a bit more detail, telling us about some of the women who rejected you? The only way we can help you correct your problem is by identifying it.

because in many books I have read, they say you have to wait for a "signal" from a woman in order to approach (the smile, the hair flipping, the arm touch, etc.)

Then throw those books out. You don't have to wait for anything to make the first move. Those things will just give you an excuse to avoid approaching women. If a woman doesn't smile or flip her hair, you don't approach, and you avoid yet another opportunity to get a date. The more you increase your odds (by approaching more women), the better your chance of getting the date.

You should give the DJ bootcamp a shot. I usually tell people to click on the "DJ Bible" link at the bottom, but it's down at the moment. For now, here's the manual links to the bootcamp:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12802
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13538
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13080
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9824
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12365
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9694
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9695

 

[flyinshark]

First i wanna say that im very touched by your story and i can imagine what you're going through.

The problem seems to come from the fact that you seem to be too passive in the socializing department.

You hope that things come to you naturally, solely based on the fact that you look decent and have a good carreer. Well guess what? Life's a b!tch and i know you feel like things are unfair.

You have been reading books and learned the theory behind dating for probably more than 10 years now. Instead of getting a grip on your life and FORCING things to happen, you chose to spend time inside your house reading and you gave yourself no chance at meeting new women.

If you hoped that a beautiful woman would suddenly knock on your door one day and ask you on a date, then you were wrong.

It's starting to be late now, you're 36, and if you REALLY want things to change with women, you GOTTA ACT NOW!
It's the end of the game, 1 minute left and you are trailing by 2 goals. Do you keep reading and hope that the opponents score in their own net, or do you pull your freakin goalie and charge the enemy's net with all you've got?! You gotta ACT!!

Minimize this browser and open a new window. Google "dance class" and your city's name and spot the dancing classes close to your house. Call and get an appointment. If you hate dancing, choose yoga or karate, anything you you would like to learn and have never tried before.

Go and make new friends in those new places. Basically socialize as much as you can, with men and women alike. When you become good at socializing, you become better with women, automatically. I think that's what you need!

You are smart enough to realize that your strategy in the past 16 years has failed. Reading books and tips on the net tought you some basic theory, but it has not helped get you women. So realize that you need a major change of strategy NOW. Waiting a couple more years and reading more books will not do you any good.

You must reduce the time you spend at home and increase the time you spend outside socializing. Your people at work have a happy hour, or any kinda party? GO! Don't hesitate. If you're shy, drink alcohol.

I know you feel like procrastinating, but do you really want to have a woman in your life?? DO YOU REALLY? If you said yes, then for god's sakes FORCE yourself to join a club of some sort and meet new people. Be it just 2 people, those 2 people will allow you to meet 4 new people, and so on.

I hope this helped you snap out of your passiveness! Did you do that google search yet?? What are you waiting for?

 

[InvisibleMan]

First of all, welcome to the board.



These two statements seem to contradict each other. You've been rejected a lot, but you've been rejected once in the past four years? I'm going to do some math here.... If you've asked one girl out every four years since you were 16, you would have a total of 6 rejections. Compared to other people on this message board (including myself), that's nothing. Even if you had one rejection for every year (making a total of 20), that's still nothing compared to others on here.

Could you go into a bit more detail, telling us about some of the women who rejected you? The only way we can help you correct your problem is by identifying it.

I would guess I've had about between 30 and 40 rejections total in my life (and that's in a row since I was about 17 or so). I suppose it may not sound like a lot, to some, but you'd think there would be one date in there somewhere. And these are not women who are all totally hot (in fact, none of them probably were), they were mostly pretty, slender girls who I found attractive. These were all women who were either casual acquaintances, co-workers, or just women I met at the spur of the moment who were friendly to me in some way.

Mostly, I am usually always told "I have a boyfriend." Many times I had later found out that she went out with another guy who asked her out a day later or whatever so I understand that many of the "I have a boyfriend" claims are outright lies. Besides, what's to stop a woman going out with me even if she DOES have a boyfriend? And why tell me about it other than to let me down easy?

This one woman who was cutting my hair actually gave me her number when I asked her out, and then she told me she had a boyfriend when I called her. WTF?

I get this a lot actually from women that I'm not even interested in: they tell me about their boyfriends as if it's important to them to "nip in bud" any potential romantic interest on my part. The point is when a woman mentions a boyfriend you might as well move on. If she's interested in you, her boyfriend would never be mentioned as far as I'm concerned.

Even though 30 or 40 women may not be a lot, What concerns me more is that women are not approaching me or giving me positive signals other than friendly smiles. I have misinterpreted these "friendly" smiles many times as a sign of interest only to be rebuffed. Most of the married men I know say THEY were approached by the woman in some manner.

Many, many men talk about the "signals" that a woman gives so you know you have the go ahead to approach them. To me they are signs from some mythical fantasyland. Every woman I run into is so damn busy hurrying to get somewhere or talking on a cell phone or so preoccupied I could walk right into them and they wouldn't even notice.

I am a problem solver by nature and a loner and never had a father figure in my life, so what manly qualities I do have I have had to learn myself or through observation. The whole game of getting women has perplexed me for years now and I have stopped being a "nice guy" and a female approval seeker like I was in my 20s, and I don't give off desperation vibes, but still I have no luck. I feel I can have the power to look into a woman's eyes and melt her, but I can't get a break.

Maybe my male "biological clock" finally kicked in, but in the past 6 months I have develooed this overwhelming urge to go out and get a woman (after about 5 years of not giving a damn and in hiding). And it's not just sex, it's about proving to myself that I am not CURSED and that I can overcome this seemingly insurmountable problem.

When I first found about about this site, I noticed the link to the Boot Camp didn't work, so thanks for providing those links. I'll do the Boot Camp - I'll do it to the damn letter.

Then you guys can tell me if I AM cursed or not.


- The Invisible Man

 

[flexion_]

Next time a woman gives you a friendly smile say, "hello." ... smile back... see what happens. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Once you feel comfortable with that... say "hello". ... smile back... and make some small talk and see what happens. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Go watch the movie Dead Poets Society to learn to sieze the day or whatever else works for you.

 

[gr8one]

My hobbies are reading (I'm an avid reader, but most "book girls" are about as homely as you can get, and even though I have never had a girlfriend, I still have standards and wouldn't go out with fat girls - sorry just no attraction).

I've met some Hot Chicks at Bookstores, bro.
Maybe it's the glasses, but anyway...
A Really good friend of mine told me this when I was in a slump.

"Lower your standards, and Improve your average."
I blew it off at first, but one day I decided to say Fu<k it and I bagged me a 5, a 6, and one time a 3! They had pretty faces, mind you, but still... Not the typical choice I would've made under "sober Circumstances"..LoL

Fact is, you just have to take one for the team. You'll see, . . .

 

[warpy]

"Fact is, you just have to take one for the team. You'll see, . . ."
funny lol

 

[Latinoman]

So, today at 36-years-old…you are fit, successful, confident, not ugly, dress well, independent, and smell good.

But, here is the problem…what you described is “today”s you. And you already claimed you have not asked a woman out in the last 4 years. Do you think you exhibited the same level of confidence, success, and all those qualities 4+ years ago? I doubt that. You are a DIFFERENT man…as we all know that men change considerably when they reach their mid 30s. Give it a try now. You will succeed.

I bet if you have 20 women out (5-ugly, 5-average, 5-pretty, and 5-gorgeous), that you would at least get TWO telephone numbers and ONE agreeing to go out with you.

Here is my suggestion to you. An extreme case as yours requires extreme advice:

1-In your case, I recommend you try the on-line dating services. I’m sure you will get a few dates there.

2-Stop the bitterness.

3-You are asking women the incorrect way. Try a different approach.

4-VERY rarely a woman would approach a man.

5-Join dance classes.

6-You are sending bad vibes…some how. However, there is not way to know by reading your posts.

7-Lower CONSIDERABLY your standards in women when it comes to LOOKS (never when it comes to values/etc.)

8-But if that STILL doesn’t work…then you might as well try this option: If you don’t get laid by Dec. 31, 2006. Then fly to Las Vegas and pay a prostitute. Do that once. It is unacceptable to be a virgin by age 36.

 

[InvisibleMan]

So, today at 36-years-old…you are fit, successful, confident, not ugly, dress well, independent, and smell good.

But, here is the problem…what you described is “today”s you. And you already claimed you have not asked a woman out in the last 4 years. Do you think you exhibited the same level of confidence, success, and all those qualities 4+ years ago? I doubt that. You are a DIFFERENT man…as we all know that men change considerably when they reach their mid 30s. Give it a try now. You will succeed.

I bet if you have 20 women out (5-ugly, 5-average, 5-pretty, and 5-gorgeous), that you would at least get TWO telephone numbers and ONE agreeing to go out with you.

Here is my suggestion to you. An extreme case as yours requires extreme advice:

1-In your case, I recommend you try the on-line dating services. I’m sure you will get a few dates there.

2-Stop the bitterness.

3-You are asking women the incorrect way. Try a different approach.

4-VERY rarely a woman would approach a man.

5-Join dance classes.

6-You are sending bad vibes…some how. However, there is not way to know by reading your posts.

7-Lower CONSIDERABLY your standards in women when it comes to LOOKS (never when it comes to values/etc.)

8-But if that STILL doesn’t work…then you might as well try this option: If you don’t get laid by Dec. 31, 2006. Then fly to Las Vegas and pay a prostitute. Do that once. It is unacceptable to be a virgin by age 36.

I may be different but just a few months ago I asked a woman out who I THOUGHT was flirting with me and she said "I can't do that." I said "Why not" and she said "'cause my boyfriend wouldn't like it." It brought back all the defeats again, and told me why I haven't asked anyone out in 5 years.

I've tried online dating - I haven't had one bite in about 3 months so far.

And sorry, I'm NOT lowering my standards. Personally, I don't think pretty and slim is too much to ask. I see a quite a few girls I would like to date, but they all have boyfriends. You may say beggars can't be choosers, but just cause I haven't been on a date DOESN'T make me a beggar.

And there is NO WAY I am paying for sex. It is NOT an option. I may be a loser, but I'm a loser with pride.

I think I may do the dance class thing.

And to the guy that suggested smile and say hello:
I ALWAYS smile at women. And they always smile back, and often say hello. But that's it. I know they are just being polite because when I would proceed to try to get a date, the boyfriend issue would come up. I mean, people smile at other people - it doesn't mean they want you.

One thing - I have never been very good at small talk or witty banter. I was always the guy who thought of a good comeback line like 3 days after the fact....I understand you should get women to talk about themselves because people usuually love to talk about themselves but I find it hard to initiate casual conversation - small talk. I envy the guys I see at the gym who just go up to girls and make them laugh. I don't know how to do that. I'm more like a "hi, how you doin'" kinda guy, but the conversation usually stalls out shortly after that.

- The Invisible Man

 

[Sinistar]

...but they all have boyfriends.

No - they don't and you know it! Got it? That excuse is pure BS so stop using it.

 

[thissucks003]

So much to comment on!

Who keeps tabs on the number of rejections they have on picking up women?
Stop keeping tabs on what your past rejections or failures in life. Learn from them and change the technique. If you are not sure what you are doing wrong in your approaches, find a mentor or go to workshop with someone that has a trained eye on what you are doing right or wrong in your approaches. It is going to cost money but it is worth it. They will also give you ideas on how to dress and give you great ideas on how to structure your conversation.

Most women do not give out any signals for you to approach. You just approach. Stop wasting time looking for the girl to make the 1st move. That is your job.

Sinistar is right. Not all women have boyfriends. You don't know what level of dating they are in. They may just started dating someone, but that doesn't mean they are exclusive. They are expected to date more than one person unless they are in a committed relationship. Expect that may be the case and still proceed.

Here are some ideas to change:

You have a lot of things to work on to change yourself.

1st) Start joining organizations in your town that has young people your age to network. You will find many people that are like minded.

2nd) Have hobbies that include other people and not something that you can do by yourself.

3rd) If you are athletic, join sport teams or see if you current job has a softball, kickball, dodgeball, soccer, or whatever league.

4th) If you don't have any organizations in your town to network, start one yourself. You will meet a ton of people and make a lot of connections. You will appear very social and people will look up to you as a leader.

5th) Start happy hours parties with your co-workers. Whoever posted that earlier, great idea. I thought that this needed to emphasized.

6th) Take a speech class or go to Toastmasters. I would also include an acting class or and improv class.

7th) Others can add to my list. I have to go to a meeting.

TS

 

[InvisibleMan]

No - they don't and you know it! Got it? That excuse is pure BS so stop using it.

But don't you understand? She says NO (I won't go out with you). Whatever the reason, lie or not, I can't force women to go out with me. If they were interested in you a boyfriend would be the furthest thing from her mind. If a woman had a boyfriend and wanted to date you she surely wouldn't tell you she has a boyfriend.


- Invisible Man

 

[Latinoman]

I may be different but just a few months ago I asked a woman out who I THOUGHT was flirting with me and she said "I can't do that." I said "Why not" and she said "'cause my boyfriend wouldn't like it." It brought back all the defeats again, and told me why I haven't asked anyone out in 5 years.

That can happen to the best "pick up artist". One in five years is NOT bad at all.

I've tried online dating - I haven't had one bite in about 3 months so far.

I think you have to be proactive there. You cannot just put a Profile and sit back waiting. You have to SEARCH and SEEK.

And sorry, I'm NOT lowering my standards. Personally, I don't think pretty and slim is too much to ask.

I'm not saying to lower your standards when it comes to VALUES.
What I'm saying is to lower your standards when it comes to looks. You have NEVER played ball in your life and you are expecting to go to Triple A or the Majors and start hitting?

And what are you bringing to the game? Experience? Skills? The ability to provide/protect a woman?

You see? You are very unexperience and the type of women you want might have some standards as what to expect from their men. My point is...lower your standard so you can start PRACTICING and getting some learning done.

And maybe, I'm not asking to have lower standards...but more of a more appropriate partner based on what you bring to the table.

It is like going to an engineering firm. You cannot expect to get that kind of job as a senior engineer and making 6 figures if you have ZERO experience in that particular field. Maybe you have to settle with a $25,000 job until you get that experience.

I see a quite a few girls I would like to date, but they all have boyfriends. You may say beggars can't be choosers, but just cause I haven't been on a date DOESN'T make me a beggar.

So, why should they date you? What do you have that their boyfriends don't have?

And there is NO WAY I am paying for sex. It is NOT an option. I may be a loser, but I'm a loser with pride.

There is not such thing as a "loser with pride". Unless, you feel proud of being a loser. I understand losing with pride (as we lose some and win some)...but being a loser?

I think I may do the dance class thing.

I have never done it...but if I was alone (or had the time), I would certainly do it.

And to the guy that suggested smile and say hello:
I ALWAYS smile at women. And they always smile back, and often say hello. But that's it. I know they are just being polite because when I would proceed to try to get a date, the boyfriend issue would come up.

Well, then don't ask them on a date immediatelly. Create some rapport first. Get at least some digits.

I mean, people smile at other people - it doesn't mean they want you.

Good point. Very good point.

 

[wayword]

This is BS. Even loners get laid.
And no handsome guy gets rejected 30-40 times with 0 success.

Heck, even most fat, smelly dudes with small dix get laid by 36. So, if all you say is really true, I see no excuse for you.

 

[Latinoman]

No - they don't and you know it! Got it? That excuse is pure BS so stop using it.

Exactly.