Martial Arts: Zui Quan

[Brian20o2]

How many of you do martial arts? Weather it be for exercise or sport or competition.

I Just recently got reminded of a very interesting from of martial art that sounded interesting a while back and still does. It is called Zui Quan or Drunken Boxing. It has always looked very fun and interesting. I am thinking about attempting to teach myself this. You may ask why I am going to teach it to myself, well simply put: There are no dojos around anywhere, and if there were it would probably cost about $300 a month or more.

I took about 9 months of Tea Kwon Do and quit because it was boring but I did learn alot. I am thinking of incorperating alot of what I learned into teaching myself Zui Quan. I will be doing alot of reasearch to make sure I get it down, from books to videos.

After doing some quick research I am now making a list of things I will need to work on from my experience with Tea Kwon Do and how Zui Quan works.

Any advice or comments welcome.

 

[Brian20o2]

Nobody has any advice on how to go about teaching yourself a martial art? Does anybody here even do martial arts or know what kind Im talking about?

 

[Chillisauce]

Ever tried to teach yourself how to ride a bike without actually ever getting onto a bike? Same concept applys to martial arts, dont try and teach yourself. Ah and also, drunken boxing is a waste of time, ballet is just as effective in a fight.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Don't waste your time with that bullsh*t. The fact that there aren't any places teaching that sh*t should tell you something.

Do you really expect to learn how to fight without fighting?

Here are some choices for you: kali, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, bjj, judo.

 

[Shiftkey]

You can't teach yourself martial arts, so don't even waste your time.

Find a good studio that crosstrains in multiple martial arts, especially Muay Thai and bjj. If you happen to live in OC, here's where I train. I'm paying $75 a month, but prices vary. If you can't afford that, you need a job.

http://www.ockickboxing.com/

 

[Chillisauce]

Boxing/Judo is abit cheaper, BJJ costs too much.

 

[userwhat?]

i dont think theres anything wrong with teaching yourself, getting a partner will help alot though, you can get try out the techniques and get a feel what its like getting attacked with that kind of punch, etc.. also try to find people who are giving seminars around your area just to see where you stand in comparision...

....if you ask me i wouldnt go with drunken boxing though, but its your choice!!

i was talking with my sifu or master before i left uk for ireland about this and he said there is no problem with teaching yourself..hell sometimes it might be better than going to class because not all teachers are good...

with respect to everyones opinion on the board...if you want to teach yourself, take responsibilty and do it, like everything else in life if you just keep listening to what people tell you, without taking action, you will just get confused and do nothing in the end.

 

[Chillisauce]

It depends what he's trying to achieve by learning martial arts.

If he just wants to be able to say he trains in martial arts, then i spose its ok for him to teach himself.

If he wants to be even remotely effective at his art in a fight, competition or any application of martial arts then self teaching wont do ****.

Oh yeah and userwhat?, your sifu is full of crap. Let me guess, Wing Chun/Kung Fu.

 

[flippinfreak]

Doesn't sound like he asked his sifu... Sounds like he threw the word sifu out there to establish a sense of wisdom.

I'd speak, but I am only a student. I finished typing a short essay, but it's all about natural martial arts. I have never given my time to a single art, so I cannot elaborate with any example of years of experience...

I can say though, a self taught sifu, compared to a genuine sifu are countless skill levels apart. Even taichi versus hapkido, watching two teachers spar is amazing. Then you see a street brawler(natural sifu) take on a genuine sifu, and it's as though the sifu can't be touched.

 

[userwhat?]

Doesn't sound like he asked his sifu... Sounds like he threw the word sifu out there to establish a sense of wisdom.

I'd speak, but I am only a student. I finished typing a short essay, but it's all about natural martial arts. I have never given my time to a single art, so I cannot elaborate with any example of years of experience...

I can say though, a self taught sifu, compared to a genuine sifu are countless skill levels apart. Even taichi versus hapkido, watching two teachers spar is amazing. Then you see a street brawler(natural sifu) take on a genuine sifu, and it's as though the sifu can't be touched.

:yes: :yes: first of all...none of us can pretend we know more than what a 50 year old teacher would know...and i just laugh when people who are 17/22 talk like they have been training all their life, so please lets just stop this before it turns into a flame war between martial art styles:woo: and help the guy here. End of subject


Brian am not telling you do this or that but if you want to try training by yourself then do it and see what happens, also if you need to talk to someone about martial arts next time talk to a trainer who has spent a good few of his/hers years training.

 

[flippinfreak]

If you can't find a trainer anywhere, your ONLY choice is self training.

I don't recommend drunken boxing because from my experience it's a very non-reactive sport. You need speed, lots of speed. More speed than even I have. Even than, if your partner has any intelligence in the sport, they can counter your moves.

Drunken boxing I always thought was a laid back technique. More reactive than active. When your opponent tries to strike you, it trains you to react or to avoid. In no way does it prepare you for the strike, it's simply avoid, or react.

I wouldn't choose Zui Quan as my primary art, but as a method to use only in certain situations I would be proud to be a practioner. Particularly the benefits of knowing the floor movements.

 

[Shocker]

Im a little curious how you plan on teaching yourself. And ANY dojo or martial arts that is 300 is WAY too much. I wouldnt pay more then 50 a month, because nothing is worth more then that. You can read all you want in books but it honestly means jack **** unless it is there to supplement what you are actually training for. I suggest you look around and see what is available to you in your city/town and go from there.

How many of you do martial arts? Weather it be for exercise or sport or competition.

I Just recently got reminded of a very interesting from of martial art that sounded interesting a while back and still does. It is called Zui Quan or Drunken Boxing. It has always looked very fun and interesting. I am thinking about attempting to teach myself this. You may ask why I am going to teach it to myself, well simply put: There are no dojos around anywhere, and if there were it would probably cost about $300 a month or more.

I took about 9 months of Tea Kwon Do and quit because it was boring but I did learn alot. I am thinking of incorperating alot of what I learned into teaching myself Zui Quan. I will be doing alot of reasearch to make sure I get it down, from books to videos.

After doing some quick research I am now making a list of things I will need to work on from my experience with Tea Kwon Do and how Zui Quan works.

Any advice or comments welcome.

 

[Shiftkey]

The problem with teaching yourself is that you could be punching and kicking incorrectly and have no way of knowing. Even a training partner would be ineffective here (though it's better than nothing), because they wouldn't be able to tell if you're training correctly or not either. You could be punching and kicking incorrectly for years and not know it; you'd only be reinforcing bad technique. A qualified trainer would be able to watch your technique and correct it where needed. That's why you should not teach yourself.

 

[Shiftkey]

:yes: :yes: first of all...none of us can pretend we know more than what a 50 year old teacher would know...and i just laugh when people who are 17/22 talk like they have been training all their life, so please lets just stop this before it turns into a flame war between martial art styles:woo: and help the guy here. End of subject

Either you're lying about what that man said, or you misunderstood him. No trainer would suggest that a novice teaches himself martial arts.

 

[Brian20o2]

Thank you for the replies. I think I should clear some things up.
1. I am doing this for fun and fitness not for self defense
2. I have a few friends who are fairly good in other martial arts (2nd and 3rd degree black belts in Tae Kwon Do (eg 4-8 years)) who could help me with some techniqes and training.
3. I know for sure that there are no Zui Quan Dojos here. There are some TKD and Kung Fu and Boxing but I dont want those.
4. If I seriously do this I am going to study and research and try to set up sparring times.

 

[Chillisauce]

1) you wont get fit self-training martial art moves, unless you use a heavy bag (which judging by your 'style' you wont). If your doing it for fun, why not learn a martial art legitimately and have it actually work.

2)TKD is not a martial art, its has more in common with ballet. Unless your friends have trained in other styles i would bet good money someone with 2 months boxing could beat up your friends, quite possibly at the same time. On another note, how are TKD people going to help you techniques from a style they have not learned?

3)Kung Fu is just as bad as TKD, when your serious about learning how to fight - go to the boxing gym.

4) Make sure your sparring sessions arent just you and your TKD friends, look for boxing, judo, bjj, kickboxing, muay thai, and wrestlers and dont use point-based sparing or pull punches.

 

[Chillisauce]

:yes: :yes: first of all...none of us can pretend we know more than what a 50 year old teacher would know...and i just laugh when people who are 17/22 talk like they have been training all their life, so please lets just stop this before it turns into a flame war between martial art styles:woo: and help the guy here. End of subject

What makes your 50 year old teacher more qualified than the 10 or so teachers (a few older than 50) i have had who would all laugh at a suggestion to self teach yourself martial arts?

And for your information, i have been training for nearly my whole life (since i was 9 years old) and most likely have experienced more in terms of different styles/real application of martial arts (competitions) than your sifu. I could be wrong though, could you post his qualifications or a link to your training places internet site.

 

[Eccentric]

Jeet Kune Do IMO is the best for self defense.

So far my school has incorporated Wing Chun Kung Fu, Muay Thai, Boxing, Aikido, Jui-Jitsu, and some Krav Maga for weapon disarms such as knives/bats. Usually a JKD school teaches Filipino Kali (stick fighting). My school requires 1 year of hard work, and you have to be granted permission. Chances are you will, but at my school they want quality, to make sure you're ready. It's fast and dangerous, but they use body gear and rubber Kali sticks. It's great for learning range. This way you never wasted power in an attack.

I took Kenpo for 4 years when I was in high school. Not my cup of tea. This was like trying to write left handed if you're naturally right. The footwork and stance was the hardest thing to adjust. Right lead forward, it's also my power side. Kenpo was left lead forward and you use your rear attacks for the power. It messes with an attacker as well. Right lead forward, you'd think right hand up to protect your face. JKD teaches "RLF" with your left hand to protect your face, right hand to protect the body. Try the stance, it feels funny at first. Once the footwork is down, you can dance all around them keeping your most powerful attacks within hitting range. If needed, your rear attacks are just as powerful.

My speed and punches are so much stronger now. Little techniques that go a long way. It's like a pitchers mechanics. Small tweaks can improve to huge results. They stress no kicks to the head in a street fight. Totally worthless. Wasted power, you can be knocked off balance, and you leave yourself open for attack. Instead, just drill him in the ribs, thigh, shin, knee (stop kick). If he's some punk who throws ghetto hooks, chances are after a low shin kick, he's not getting back up without stumbling right back to the ground.

Once the punches are thrown, there so much you can do for defense. Trap, counter, clinch, throws, locks, etc. Of course in JKD, everything is simultaneous. Don't trap for defense. Trap for defense so you open up a spot on his body to drill him. Dont like punches? Fine, use elbows! The whole system is what you make of it. No belts, no uniforms, no tournaments. Live training and drills will boost your awareness like never before.

If you train at the right place, with the right people and enivornment, JKD really molds you into the jack of all trades. Dont like something? Dont use it. Most people disregard it because its not in UFC. Two totally different surroundings.

 

[Brian20o2]

Again I am doing this for fun (eg a HOBBY) And who says I cant get fit training myself? I work out 3 times a week at a gym by myself, does that mean Im not gonna get fit even though I go? Im not looking for criticism or a different martial art or form of self-defence. I know I want to do this.

I just wanted to know if any of you had any ideas for excercises, stretches, routines that would help with THIS kind of Martial Art.

 

[DarkLight]

Well if we can't persuade you out of this highly specialized M.A. that was developed for very particular scenarios, and isn't the most effective outside of its illusory deception... hmm, lets see!?

If I were you, and fixated on this style and teaching myself. I would get several books on it, movies, etc. Read them, study them, internalize them. Then like in anything start w. the basics. Practice the fundamentals, the structure of Zui Quan. The drunken, liquid loose timing, to the movements. Then master the feel of that. Stretch yourself into the random extremes of the movement, feeling your body out. Studying where the energy moves, where your grounding is, where the power is, etc. From there; choose 1 Strike. Literally 1. And feel that out. Tie it into your drunken movements. Learn how to throw it most effectively, as well as when to throw it. Get the timing and feel down, until your body's cells naturally know it. Then stitch in another tactic.

Procede in that intuitive nature (since that will be your only guide), stitching in more and more tactics. Then from there, try out some combinations therof. Learn what combinations flow together, and where your openings are in between them.

Then I would even get slightly drunk, alone, for the sole purpose of bringing more authenticity and charisma into your routines. Feel it out... get to know it from a truer perspective to the form it was designed through and for.

From there I would utilize your friends. You mentioned their somewhat accomplished in Tae Kwon Do... use this. Spar w. them. Learn how this art that you've been practicing, and integrated into your body actually responds to real deal interaction. No need to go ape sh!t. Just feel it out. Build yourself into some good sparring through some time, etc. But first explore your body, and how it relates to someone through this art.

All the while when your doing this... start to finish. Try to visualize and mediate these patterns out. Model the masters you watch in the videos you get, in your mind. Play their roles out. Channel the mental frame of this art, feel it, breathe it, integrate it. Whats it trying to express? Find out by asking yourself this question, then mentally grabbing ahold of that feeling/essence and draw it in and through your body with your breathing. At first you'll feel the resistance of your mind through your body to this channeling. But the more you do it... you'll find out, and feel that this channel is expanding. And the feelings of this quality will be more and more integrated into who you are.
Grab ahold of this art as a thought, and keep drawing its quality through, with your concious intention and breath.

With all that said... when your nearing a sticking point and/or plateauing. Forget everything and become it. Your body and mind will have hooked onto this quality strong enough to just be led by it through feeling.

Then go back, and do it all over again... with the new depth of vision and awareness cultivated. Explore the art from start to finish, tasting the infinite subtleties that only reveal themselves to the trained eye.

(by no means am I a master in martial arts, this is just the totality of my experience translated into an offering of your request. Hope you gleamed some light)